Xenodrgn

lol I knew that would get your attention...

As some of you may know, I'm building a 350 for my sport coupe... due to be in the car by the start of the summer next year.

I was wondering how much horsepower and torque it would take to make the tires spin from a 20 MPH roll through a 700R4 and a 3.43 posi rear end with 225/60/15 street tires...

Thats my goal...

Mark A Shields

You mean 3:42s.

Well, put it this way, it takes the car well tuned with HP. Cause I should be able to spin like crazy off the line but I can't.

BAK12484

uhh...can i ask why you want wheelspin?!?!? :lala: :lala: :lala:

Rage13

cause thats how you know you need better tires

BAK12484

and also how to impress all the junior and high school kids too...


:lala:

Xenodrgn

Yes, Because I'm a college guy...

And that is also why I stated with 225 street tires... I know some guys at the BBQ gathering we just had that could do what I said... but on a well preped track with real tires could launch fine and get great times...

I'm just trying to figure out about how much HP I should set my goal at... I want to buy and build a 350 to run mid 13's for no more than 1500$, (I can get a number of parts from a friend and from Englishtown's swap meet for relatively cheap... rebuilt 700R4 for ~600 bucks) thats my realistic goal, but will I at least be able to spin them from a roll if I punch it on ****ty tires? Something my V6 cannot do even with my open rear end... Can't even do it from a stop... and hardly if I powerbrake it...

Mark A Shields

LOL.

GilmourD

LOL You're telling me a V6 F-body can't spin the tires powerbraking? LOL I've been driving a Mercucrap Villager for the past month cuz my 'Bird is engineless (ahhhh.... 355 almost done ) and I've found I can spin the brand new Goodrich tires (I forget which they are) off the line. Minivan Madness! Sounds like a good cheesy video game.

BAK12484

i have no clue how much power it takes to make a given wheel break loose...but one thing i know that does matter is what gear you're in. If i have my bird in 1st gear, i can stomp on it at almost any speed and break them loose (not to mention the chirp when i shift to 2nd)....also weather conditions (temperature) play a big factor too. Anyways, im just rambling so i'll shut up until someone w/ knowledge can give ya some numbers

Xenodrgn

It can on clean pavement... you get on that 1000 year old cement that has more ruts in it than a pimply teenagers face and the tires won't budge... I can stomp it from a standstill on new asfault, or even regular not ****ty roads and spin 'em...

If I time it right, I can accomplish doughnuts... lol

GilmourD

Mmmmmmmmm. Doooooughnuts...

Mark A Shields

ahhggghhhhhg.

trans87

Straight up lol

'87FAKE-IROC-Z

A nice high stall TC helps, it is kinda like dumping the clutch but not as harsh. more than enough to break the tires loose.
With my setup now I can punch it at any speed in first under 35 mph, cause that's about my shift point out of first, and absolutely rip the tires up. I can do the same at the bottom of second and break them loose, but after that I'm going to fast.
If I just let it spin from first, it will normally shift thru third and spin to about 45-50 mph.
I don't do this anymore, it was costing too much. But the 300+ foot long tire marks sure were cool.

MTCAMARO

iTrader: (1)

You will want to really be careful with your part selections.I know guy's who put 305 cams into 350s' so they can do what your talking about.One friend in particular had a 72' Lemans(same as gto body style)which is a pretty heavy car,and he could spin at will with a q-jet and powerglide trans.I'm sure he gave up alot of top end horsepower, but everything is a trade off.I run 235s' on my car which is alot like yours,and my car breaks the tires loose when i hit second pretty easily.I haven't tried it from a 20mph roll,but then ,i've been out of highschool for quite a while (Maybe i'll drive by the highschool and try it today.)I really doubt i have even 300hp at the wheels,but my throttle response and torque are better than some guys that have expensive high-power motors.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

erik- it would be most economical to buy either a shortblock and use the heads and cam of your choice, or just go with a complete crate engine

you can still have either the 305 or 350 heads and the 700R4 from for free............

focus mainly on the heads/cam/ compression............thats where MOST of your power is going to be generated from

if you want my opinion:

buy a good 350 or 383 shortblock (383's are great street engines- if you want to know why i think this let me know)

i can get a brand new 383 shortblock for about $1300.........
put some vortec heads on it..............$500

brb

1991tealRSt-topGuy

ok i'm back

use a nice roller cam.........$300

this will be a nice street engine for about $2000

theres no real advantage of building an engine your self, except having the EXACT specs you want

cuz i mean, add up all the parts and machine shop labor.....$$$

most economical thing to really do is find a wrecked V8 car with a *** engine and trans........but space doesnt permit us to do this

TBI305Camaro

On new concrete i can break my tire (yes tire) loose at about 15mph. and thats with z rated dunlop 235/50/16s. Off the line it spins real bad. I dont know why my car does it but it does...used to be real bad when i had bald tires on it.

I was throwing around the idea of getting a lt1 from the boneyard and putting the carb intake on it...thats what 250-275 hp or so?

curt86iroc

my LG4 will spin through all of first if i punch it off the line. but, perhaps that because of my open dif. ah well, i can still chirp 2nd at 3/4 throttle...

Xenodrgn

Ok, I was just curious how much HP and TQ it took too accomplish stuff like this... I'm stuck on building a 350 with fully ported 305 heads and an XE268 cam though... unless someone can prove my setup otherwise...

Xenodrgn

... or unless I can find a rebuilt block with higher compression pistons... in which case I'll use fully ported and polished 350 heads....

FyreLance

You could just save yourself some trouble and just get some really, really, really crappy tires.

Xenodrgn

Fyre... that, although true, is totally defeating the purpose.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

hey xeno- i ran both sets of heads through a compression calculator...................the 350 heads aint too bad.....................when you get the block let me take some measurements and we'll figure out the compression with the 305 and 350 heads..........i can also find out how much it will cost to get the 350 heads shaved...............i'm almost just beginning to think the BEST way to go are VORTEC HEADS $500 for the set full assembled..............those would be the best bet, cuz with all the work that need to go into the heads i am offering, spend a few more bucks and be lightyears ahead

1991tealRSt-topGuy

erik- i plugged the numbers into the dyno2000 and you'll max out at the following:

427 ft. lbs@4000
and 400HP@5500

thats the cam you mentioned, vortec heads and a 350 with about 9.5 compression

GilmourD

Does anybody have proper flow numbers for the Vortec heads? I'm looking to get either the modified Scoggin-Dickey set with intake or a set of Pro Lightning 180s, and I wanna compare them.

Xenodrgn

Wow, glenn... those are awesome numbers... ALOTm more than I expected... and you know, I might just go with Vortec heads...

Can you do me a favor though... run this through DD2K...

350 block, keith Black flat top pistons... Crane Powermax 2050 HR cam.. the guy said with stock 350 heads with 72CC chambers it'll put me right around 9.3:1 C/R... He'll even throw in the lifters... I just need to worry about induction and the little stuff like headers, exhaust and distributor... and then I still need to get a transmission... with the 2050 cam I'll definatly want a bigger stall..... I might just pull it out and sell it (it's got less than 100 miles on it in the motor) in favor of the split pattern XE268...Lets see what makes more power and which one has a better torque curve...

the price sheet i have from a local machine shop says for them to shave a head is 25 bucks each head up to .005... over that and it's 40 bucks a head...

Xenodrgn

Specs on the 2050 cam...

216/228 dur at .050" lift... .454/.480 total lift and 112* LSA should have a tighter power band, in the 2200-5200 range...

I don't like the idea of running a huge stall convertor on the street... big MPG killer... which is something I need to keep in mind when I build this motor...

TBI305Camaro

i wouldnt go huge but maybe like a 2400 or so shouldnt be to bad from what i hear.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

363 ft lbs @ 3500
287 HP @ 4500

1991tealRSt-topGuy

might wanna consider TPI instead of a carb.................

carb:
intake $150
carb $300
AFPR $100

$550

i've seen complete TPI systems sell for $300, and i believe i know of a way to re-use the 2.8 MPFI harness

thats what i am doing on my car, using the V6 harness, adapted

so thats pretty much $400 (added in costs) for the TPI setup VS. $550 for the carb

jimmy_mac

1972 rochester rebuilt carb off ebay = $30
Alluminum sbc intake used from junk yard = $25
Inline Carter fuel pump summit racing = near $60(can't remember)
B hanger from summit = about $6
CK secondary rods from summit = about $3

total = $124

Also found slightly used HEI distributor from zz4 motor for $100. Summit has similiar distributor for $150 or so.

This is just the route I went and I think I got lucky on the carb but I'm pretty sure you can find holley and rochester is good condition out there for under a 100 bucks.

If your gonna buy the tpi used anyway why not a used carb.

1991tealRSt-topGuy

the reason i mentioned TPI, is because he's looking for decent fuel economy

the TPI will take some power away, but some stuff you need to give in a little.................

Xenodrgn

I thought I was giving up enough by building a 700R4...

I -really- wanna avoid TPI... too much stuff goes bad, injectors go south... adjustments on everything is so much harder... ect...