SlowStangEater

I figure that will get more peoples attention and will make me happy and someone else $50 bucks richer.
Symptoms:Car wont start when hot.....
You can jump start it.
Ive replaced starter and put on heat shield.
I turn the key and get ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. No click...Notta!

So its obviously notting getting juice when its hot....and the jumpstart gives it that juice that it needs.

rezinn

How old are the battery and alternator?

SlowStangEater

Less than 2 years. Had them both tested when this first started happening. But who knows. Why would it be the alternator?

Hecubus

and you have a good ground from the block to the firewall/frame somewhere?

Is this a TPI

SlowStangEater

I checked the ground on the block and it seemed ok. All wires that grounded off the battery looked good. No, this POS is a TBI. My problem is getting worst now that the weather is getting hotter. I drove for about 10 minutes today....turned off the car and then tryed to start it back up but my battery guage sat at about 8 and I ended up having to jump it. But If I would have waited an hour, it would have started right up. It was very hot.....

Hecubus

so if you jump it it'll start every time hot or not?

SlowStangEater

FYI, I have no problems with my car missing or dying either. It just wont start when its hot.

SlowStangEater

If my car is cool there is no need to jump it. However when its hot and I get no turn over at all I just jump start it and it works every single time..... In fact today I jumped it....let it run for 2 minutes turned it back off and let it sit for 2 minutes and went to start it again.......and it wouldnt start so I had to jump it again!!

Hecubus

do the TBI's have a small starter Relay

I'm trying to think I had this problem on a peice of crap mustang I think it turned out to be the relay .. not shure ..I'll keep thinking

SlowStangEater

to be honest I dont know..... Im not a very car smart person. thats why Im completely stumped.

Hecubus

kinda dumb question but have you ever tried to sample the voltage when it's hot and wont start at any point?

It's obviously not getting the power so you might want to try to follow the voltage all the way threw the starter relay system and try to find a point where it's abnormal...... sorry not much help on the TBI's I'm afraid

I've had a Fuseable link in a stang go out that was driving me crazy but it was eventually found

Wish I could be of more help
good luck

ede

have you tried to trouble shoot it at all or just tried to fix it by guessing? i'd check with a test light for power to the starter when it does it, look at the fuseable links. might also want to make sure it's going all the way into park and the park safety switch is good, or the clutch safety switch.

SlowStangEater

I havent tried that as far as when it not starting but I will try that tomorrow. Ive got to replace a hose that went bad today anyways.

SlowStangEater

Ede, I have more or less done the guessing game. What exactly does a fuseable link look like? is it the wires that come off the starter and then have a spot that is bigger and then goes back down to normal size. Im color blind so colors dont help... lol

Hecubus

do you have a manual?

SlowStangEater

yes I do.....thats another thing I forgot.....One time when it was doing this I finageled with the clutch safety switch under the dash and it quit doing it for a month.....I also redid my block ground that day too. But now its back with a vengance.

Hecubus

hmmm I dont know how the "heat" variable can be a problem if it were the the clutch safety switch but worth checking over again if it made a change..

I would take a good look at the Troubbleshooting Chart in the book ...depending on the book sometimes that can be useful

SlowStangEater

Yeah, Ive been doing that but everything points to the solenoid. I just dont see how its that bad.....I dont have headers. I have a remote solenoid mounted but not hooked up. I didnt know how to hook it up. Mainly the colors did me in but I was a little confused about it all also. I wish someone who has done this mod. could post a pic.

Hecubus

best bet I can think of now is to test the voltage when the problem happens

all the way to the starter and test the ground as well

you need to find what/where it's changing

BTW I've had several starters out of the box.. DOA so I wouldn't rule that out all together ..

anyway good luck man

SlowStangEater

How many grounds should I be looking at? If Im correct....1 goes to the block 2 goes to the inside metal of the car and one more wire goes to the power accesory thingy right?

SlowStangEater

Ede, I have more or less done the guessing game. What exactly does a fuseable link look like? is it the wires that come off the starter and then have a spot that is bigger and then goes back down to normal size. Im color blind so colors dont help... lol

SlowStangEater

Well Im thinking that since my only problem is it not starting when its hot that maybe I will hook up my remote solenoid tomorrow. Now.....if my other solenoid has been dealing with all this heat will it still be good once I hook up the Remote?

Riley's35089rs+

Replace the starter......when can I have my $50.00

SlowStangEater

Dont get to cocky yet.... ive replaced the starter and that didnt do it. So unless it was a DOA starter Im thinking thats not it. Plus I dont want to throw another starter on there and have it die a month later.......I dont consider that fixing the problem. Plus when I go to turn the key my battery guage hardly goes up at all.

ronterry

Have you checked to make sure the starter switch is getting at least 12v at the starter solonoid? You can hook a good old volt meter at the solonoid, on the switch post, ground it where your bat is grounded, and verify your getting a hole 12v's when you throw the key. Jumping the car pumps a bit more umff through a weak circuit sometimes.
Kinda funny, cause this normaly a sign of a weak positive contact.

We use to giggle the cable on the post while trying to start it to double check those problems.


BTW: the saftey switches mentioned early, can easily be check by doing the above switch test. If your getting crap voltage to the switch, it might not open the path for the bat power to kick the starter. You can also try a remote hand starter that uses a seperate power source to the switch.

Good Luck,

Ron

SlowStangEater

I will try that sometime today. Sounds like a good chance.

SlowStangEater

Ron, Now with what you were saying....the remote solenoid would help out with that loss wouldnt it?

todd200

I would suspect your battery. At my shop I have seen alot of batteries test good when they are the problem. They pass a load test, low charge but good. Try to charge them and they won't charge or won't hold the charge for long. Next time when this happens check your voltage at the battery. Also check the voltage at the starter. If they are both low I would suspect the battery. If your good at the batt, but bad at the starter I would re-check all your grounds and fusible links.(High Resistance)

SlowStangEater

Im pretty sure the battery is good... Now the fuseable link is that bulge in the wire right? Do I have to replace that whole wire?

ronterry

Well most remote starters I believe come with alligator clips, so you could run it directly off the battery or good 12v source (So yea it would help it the switch wire is weak), and one that hooks to the solonoid switch post. It has a trigger that you pull to engage the starter.


Ron

SlowStangEater

I got the one out of summit so Im thinking that is the 1st one you referred to.

SlowStangEater

You know what.......I just recalled that one time when I was at band camp...I mean the track I was sitting in line and my car died. Which has only ever happened twice. And I had to jump start it or pop the clutch. But my car has never stalled while driving or shown a loss of power. I wonder why it died those 2 times. Hasnt happened since then but I havent been to the track either.

Sciguyjim

My gut is telling me it could be the battery too. Maybe it has a bad cell, or an internal short that connects when it warms up. I'd try a different battery. At least it would eliminate possible battery problems.

SlowStangEater

So batteries can have an internal shortage? I was wondering that. I think something somewhere is getting hot and shorting out. What wires could it be. I know only so many wires could cause this problem.

90Formula-X-F

If you have a volt meter put it on the batter connections while some one BREFLEY turns the key. The battery should hold about 10 volts or better. If it does then you can pretty much bet your new starter is NFG even if you had the same problem before. If you want to be sure go under the car and measure the voltage at the battery lead at the starter to ground while some one turns the key. It should not be less than .5 volts reading you took at the battery. If it is you have a poor connection and or bad positive cable. To test the Negative cable put the positive meter lead on the engine block anywhere but on the aluminum brackets and the other end on the negitive cable end at the battery. Voltage should not be present or if it is... it shouldn't be more than .5 volts. if more than 5 volts it's the negative cable... Hope this is helpfull..

Sciguyjim

I wasn't thinking of wires, I meant that the plates inside the battery may have buckled and touched causing a local, temporary short. Also, crud falls off the plates over time and builds up on the bottom of the battery. I've seen this too cause problems when it gets deep enough to touch the battery plates. I suppose it's just as possible for some of the inner plates to get disconnected by a crack in the conductor. A good way to check this is to take it to a shop where they have the machine that can monitor battery volts and amps while under a load, do it cold and hot. It can read very different under load than it does if you just put a voltmeter across the terminals.

SlowStangEater

Wow thanx, I didnt know you could test a negative like that.

SlowStangEater

I know you didnt mean wires but I was asking about wires just incase it isnt my battery. I will check the battery but I was wondering what wires may be the cause instead??

si_camaro

Disconnect the switch wire from the starter (the small one with the spade connector) and run a wire from that. Briefly touch the other end of your new wire on the positive terminal of the battery.
This is not to find out what the problem is, but what it isn't. If the starter turns when you touch the cable, it's not the battery.

evil t/a

You owe me fifty bucks. Its not your starter or you battery its the soleniod the hot lead from the battery to the starter , when it gets hot it has a hard time conducting voltage a jump will fix that. Since you already have a remote soleniod you just have to hook it up and your problems are gone.

Riley's35089rs+

if its in the starter...it is included in "the starter"........ Do you mean the cable itself...

Zirtbow

Try replacing the ignition switch.. my car has the same problem.. if its hot inside the car.. no start.... if its cool.. then its fine.. When its hot though I can turn the key.. everything lights up and the battery tests fine.. and you hear the fuel pump go "mmmmmmmrrrrrr" and then you turn the key fully... nothing...

mechanicalmehem

the wire leading to the starter from the battery could be getting heat soaked ie getting hot and creating more resistance and thus it will not start, I have seen several that have done this, also I assume you have tired cleaning the battery cables at the battery.

88Bravo

Have you checked the water level in the batterie? I am thinking it is a bad batterie or the cables are getting to hot and causing more resistence and that takes away from volt power. Have you checked for a bad cell? Bubbles in the acid? Do you have a maintance free batterie? You could also check the voltage of the batterie when you try to start it hot? Good luck.

camarochic

If I where you I would just change the starter again . But good luck.:lala: :lala:

Val

guys, guys, guys...

Check the corrosion on the possitive battery terminal. ANY corrosion could cause this problem. The corrosion can be VERY hard, so use something like an ice pick to chip it out.

Doubt it is a starter. Could be the battery for previously stated reasons. (ie cracked cell causing internal short) But please check the cable and terminal for corrosion first!!!

Sonar_un

Overheating Ignition Module due to not enough dielectric grease? Perhaps? I dunno, just taking whacks at it w/ a dead stick Have your module at least tested.

88Bravo

The best way to clean batterie termanals is to use a plumbers wire brush. It is two pieces, one is a female side and the other is a male. You can find them in the batterie section at parts stores.

Blackened

It's " B A T T E R Y" not "batterie".

And I bet YOU 50 dollars that IT IS the starter solenoid like many other people suggested to you. How do I know ? My car did the exact same thing for a week when I had a junk new "rebuilt" starter from AutoZone. Replaced it and now it starts on the first key everytime, hot or cold.

Val

Think about this though.
If it cranks when it is jumped, how could it have anything to do with the solenoid? If is was the solenoid or starter it would not crank even then.