snflupigus

This is a small block tbi, ridges shaved off, edges radiused in, and all other crap smoothed off the top. Just needs final polish to be near mirror.

PIC REMOVED

This is a side by side shot of a stock small block tbi next to the above "ultimate tbi"

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this is in order of crappy to good. stock tbi, ultimate, big block(454)

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another angle of above to show ridges etc...

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ultimate tbi side shot to show ridges removed and everything else too

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stock sbc tbi side shot, again to show how much material is removed

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This is a pic of SOME of my tbi stuff, ya some LOL, anyway.
Top left, is the ultimate tbi partially worked over with a dremel.
you might be able to see, the top bore has some grinding done to the ridges.

Bottom left, = 454 tbi NOT modded at all. (it has been now - after the pic was taken) next to it is a stock sbc tbi., and another, and another with the pod on it. the far bottom right came off an 89 blazer, you should/kinda be able to see, it has the old style tps, but the 2nd from the right has new style tps.

And the rest is just gravy, these are pods i bought for 13 bucks a peice from a closed up propane conversion shop. ive got a few 55lbers some v-6 injectors. one is a 305 pod, and two are big blocks i think. pn # 17084327 - if you find that PLEASE let me know. my dealerships computer doesnt have any info on it, and neither does delco.

since i have like a lot of tbi stuff laying around, i got board and decided to have some fun.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::EDITED:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

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NIC

Mark305TBI

That be alot of throttle bodies.

TBI305Camaro

is the one with the biggest bore a bored out stock TBI?

Mark305TBI

BTW, what's that throttle body in the bottom left of the last picture?

Brent

iTrader: (1)

When are you gonna post the flow test results?

snflupigus

the largest one on the bottom left is the 454 tbi unit, it has now had some modifications done to it, that i think may enhance flow a tiny bit.

flow test may be sooner than i thought now, i recently discovered that the local community college my friend goes to has a flow bench in their aircraft tech lab. They have 2 military helicopters a JET like a fighter jet, tons of turbine engines and a couple more copters there. And i thought it was just a little old college. guess what else i found there. check out this pic.



supercharged, turbocharged

its deisel but hey, still damn cool

Sonar_un

Hey snuf, could you put little explainations by the pictures?

I am not too sure at what I am looking at, or what specifically I should be looking for. I can tell the differences between them, but what was altered, which unit is it, and why. Thanks a bunch!

snflupigus

explinations added.

Sonar_un

Thank you very much oh TBI master :hail:

NXS055

I would love to do that, but i'm too chicken schit to try it on my tbi, I'd like to find a used one for cheap somewhere, the only junked maros or birds around here are stripped down pretty good already, so no tbi there... where else should I look, or if anyone has one, let me know
thanks a bundle

snflupigus

small block tbi's usually go for around 40-50 dollars without the pods etc.. Ive seen em as cheap as 25 though. To me, whoever was selling that one got ripped off and whoever bought it stole it.
50 bucks seems like a fair price for a stock small block tbi unit. Took me about an hour or so to shave all this stuff down.

If you want i could sell you one that i have not worked on for 50, or you could buy the one i already did for 70 and i will shave down the throttle shaft and knife edge the blades too.

If anybody thinks these prices are unreasonable please post your opinions.

NXS055

reasonable or unreasonable I can't say, but I'm not able to spend that much on something that isn't NEEDED right now. I'm gettin ready to do the lt1 cam swap and thats gonna eat up a bunch of cash, not that I have a lot to be eaten up, but still
hahaha
i was thinkin more around 20, but maybe I'm wrong, thats just what I can pay right now, it may or may not be worth more, I really can't say.
thanks for offering though. and if I get some money soon, maybe I'll get back to you on that.... thanks

HrdRockA4305

Hey its the super-turbo deisel! As far as I know some of those are actually 2 stroke motors too. Anyway back on topic.

That does look like a good idea to do, I really should dig up a used TBI unit and attack it with a dremel. Maybe I'll do that and just install it with a new intake. Gotta take something off, why put the old one back on, ya know?

snflupigus

yes, it is a two stroke. its a beast.

Rock90rs

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I think its unreasonable,...I think you should get 100 for them. Ive done many myself...

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

another useful hint. Dont campher those airhorns at teh inlet (shown in first photo). The transition should be smooth with no edges. That will reduce the possibility of the formation of voricies and eddies around the sharp bend. This probably wont affect teh flowrate much but every little tiny bit helps

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

know where i can get my mits on one of those 454 units? How much would it cost?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

or.... is it possible to bore the stock lo3 one to 2". I would assume so but just like to ask. I have several machine shops at my disposal here at college

NTChrist

I've heard of small block TB's being bored out to 48mm (I think V8Astroboy did it). That's pretty close to 2" for those of you that are metrically challenged. After you have them bored, you can use a pair of TPI throttle blades, to save money.

Snuf: If you want to keep the price down a little, you might consider allowing a discount if they send you their old TB's. You know, a core-charge type thing.
That way, you make money, and you'll always have more TB's to sell.

NTChrist

I'm not too sure if I understand what you're saying. I think you're saying that we shouldn't chamfer the bores, but that's a big part of modding the TB. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding. Please explain.

burntblues

hey snuf,

hows the custom tbi unit coming? I saw that you put a pic of the unit under your name, but how is it actually coming? What are the bore sizes going to be on that?

-=-Mike

Sonar_un

I was thinking of asking the same thing

fast_broker

iTrader: (1)

Snuf, you've got mail.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Basically, Just grind the corners of the campher till their rounded. Fluids have mass and they wont follow the contour of the corner, this has the effect of reducing the flow area ever so slightly... Again, this is just being picky. It probably produces little or no difference, especially with such high reynolds number flow.

Lionsden

Ultimate tbi mods...... how about this?

Crossfire TBs

Stock on left (1.812" id), bored housing on right (2.130" id)

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

sweet... How are thos CF's working out for you?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

BTW, where did you get those throttle plates from?

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

i am very interested in knowing where i can find some 48mm throttle blades. I just bought a TBI unit for 15 bucks and am hopefully going to have it bored to 48mm and do the Ultimate TBI mods, get it ready for my 350 which i will hopefully have in my car within the next 2 years or so.

snflupigus

Its designed and done, but i dont have the bouncieballs to shell out 500 to make the first one. Well, actually i dont have 500. I was all prepared to do it and then boom, i keep getting these great deals on stuff for the 69 that i cant pass up, like the 355, and i found a full fiberglass front end and doors for 400.
stuff like that puts it on the back burner. I dont have a lot of free time either, or i would have made one out of wood a long time ago. As it turns out, from my calculations, if you build a 2.25"2bbl tbi, you have to raise the injectors a lot. in theory, and its kindof an iffy situation i am thinking a lot about lately. ANY comments

and by the way, lionsden, you HAVE to let me know where you got those plates.

thanks

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I bored mine out to 48mm and used the throttle plates out of a stock TPI unit. It works well. If you have a 2.5 million dollar CNC mill you can do it just like I did!

Lionsden

There are two sets of the 2.130" housing out now being tested. Braswell sells throttle plates.

snflupigus

braswell wanted something like 40 dollars a peice for the plates i talked to them about. they had horrible phone/conversation skills and said they wouldnt take credit cards>??????????

Lionsden

The 2" plates (109-228) I have been buying from Braswell are $2.00 each and the 2.130" plates (109-2.130) are $11.25 each plus shipping. I believe the other plates in that line were $11.25 also.

Don't know what to say about phone/conversation skills. I talked to Hank...never a problem.

Your right they don't take credit cards.

burntblues

Hey Snf,

I just had a quick question about the TBI units. Maybe I'm being concerned about nothing but aren't the ridges on the unit serving a purpose? What I'm talking about are the ones that fit underneath the injector pod. I would think that they are important to prevent a fuel or vacuum leak, especially if they were to be ground down too much. Am I being overly cautious?

-=-Mike

fbody dude

Hey snf,

I've got a stupid question. That 454 throttle body looks awfully close to the 305 tbi (except for those big holes). Why not use the 454 body and blades with 305 fuel injectors, regulator, etc... If there is a problem with the blades interferring with the intake, just bore the intake to the size of the 454 blades. Like i said, probably a stupid question.

Also, When boring out the holes for bigger throttle blades, do you just use a dremel and, if so, how do you make that perfect circular hole?

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

The 454 TBI units are very difficult to find. And we all already have the 305 units, so it is much easier to just work with these.

soulbounder

TB's are looking good. I've been thinking about your design for the TB as well and with a 2.25" bore. You think the pod would most likely have to be higher than normal? Would that be in order to get an optimum spray pattern for atomization? I'll talk to some of my mechanical engineering and machine shop buddies to see what they think. The fuel injector, cone-shaped spray pattern will hit the walls higher as you move the pod higher (assuming a fixed spray pattern) and lower on the walls as the pod is moved lower. Would the best place for the cone to contact the wall be where the blades "touch" the wall? I'm just curious as to what the different effects would be. Heh, maybe one day all the thirdgen TBI members will send in a buck for the Snuf TB fund, lol. I'd be up for it. Just wondering about the other 10,000 + members.

snflupigus

They do serve a purpose, to direct flow straight down into the tbi. However, they also inhibit total airflow. Im sure gm has a reason for them being there, but the also have a more valid reason for NOT having them on the 454 tbi. MORE POWER. well, more airflow...

Im sure that if your injectors were on the fritz, and spraying badly, fuel will and does hit the top of the tbi, but its usually so hot that its vaporized and pulled into the intake anyway.

getting rid of the ridges will not cause a vacuum leak or any other problems.

snflupigus

not stupid, but definately a newbie question. LOL sorry man.

Yes, people do this, ive done it, but its not needed on an lo3. it will actually cause you to run lean if not done right, and slow you down. Chip changes are a must if you want to run a 454 tbi on an lo3 with stock lo3 injectors.

Let me clear something up that you might think.
the castings of the big block and the small block tbi are very similar, but they are NOT the same. which is why the sbctbi cant be bored to 2". Only 48mm.

The injector pods, they are ALL THE SAME. so you can use any pod on any tbi.

snflupigus

Well, i was wanting the 2.25 inch ones. and i guess they would be a bit more. I guess i will have to call them again and see if i was just confused.

snflupigus

The white line on the one pic shows where the stock height of the pod should set it. the other shows how much higher it would have to be to get the spray cone to hit right at where the the blades are shut.

This is my hypothetical rendering because i have not yet measure the actual cone angle.

I designed these cones from assuming that if you raise the pod with an extra gasket that the cone would hit the blades perfectly on a stock sbc tb unit.

Start thinking for me

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

sweetness.... When you do get those TB's out, count me in... I want one... I dont know if this is what you where looking for but teh hight of the injector nozzle over the tb blade should be h=(Dblade/2)/(tan(cone angle)). BTW, Off beat question but what did u use to render the model? (kinda looks like ideas)

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

about that pod hight... ill be damed if i can think of another way to avoid that other than using different injectors with larger spray cone angles.

burntblues

can't you make a spacer for the injector pod?

I would think that doubling up on gaskets may even make a big difference

-=-Mike

JPrevost

The problem with raising the injector pod isn't so much the actual spacer as it is the fuel fittings on the back. When you add spacers the throttle body needs to be modified.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

I doubled up the injector pod gaskets. The fuel line fittings clear by a hair. I used some black RTV to glue the gaskets together.

I can't say I really felt any gain. I did that when I bored the TBI out to 48mm so it's hard to tell. I'm sure it does something...

soulbounder

Ah, I didn't take into account the much larger 2.25" bores. I know why you say the pod needs to be taller now. I'll try to find some info on the spray pattern of different injectors. Wider pattern injectors seems like they'd be ideal.

snflupigus

the pod... i think it just needs redesigned. but that would be even more expensive to build than the tbi i think.

the lines will clear, because it would raise up so much that you would have to use stainless or rubber flexible lines and bring them back down through some grommeted holes in the aircleaner base. i have an idea of having the aircleaner a bit oval with the longest part from front to back. still using a 14x3 filter.

o ya, and thats just a screenshot from autocad2000i. i am trying to learn rhino, but evertime i import an autocad solids model, it wants to screw up and round and bubble every edge.

steve8586iroc

Anyone remember the Barry Grant fourbarrel tbi. He built it with the injectors comming in from the side and had carb like venturies to atomize the fuel. I think it was something like that. Anyway if the tbi had the injectors comming in from the side then a lot of problems could be solved and no hoses or wires would enter the air cleaner area. Just a thought.

Steve

Sonar_un

I had pondered that actually. It would be cool.

People would think you are running carb, but it would be fuel injection. Sweet.