gheatly

iTrader: (2)

Seems like a few people have had trouble with their Crossfire Injection lately so I thought I would start a positive Crossfire thread. My Crossfire is running just fine!

My First Gen Camaro club had a dyno day on Saturday and I ran my '82 Z-28 with CFI on a dyno for the first time. Results as follows (peak HP/TQ):

Run #1 240/270
Run #2 238/267
Run #3 236/265

Peak power was at 5,100 RPM and peak torque was at 4,100 RPM.

Still have some tuning to do. AE "pump shot" is so big it maxes out the injectors and causes a visible dip in the HP and TQ curves. A/F ratio also went very rich after 5,000 RPM, dropping from a nice 13:1 down to 10:1 by 5,800 RPM. This overly rich condition also had a negative impact on the power curves.

I've got a new Renegade intake on order and will pick up tuning after I get it installed. Hope to pick up another 10-20 HP and engine should be perfect.

82Camaroguy

Thanks for starting a positive crossfire thread!

supr_fly03

iTrader: (2)

With a little work, crossfires can run very good. I almost tossed mine in the garbage, but sat down and figured out how to make it run better. I still need to tune it or find a corvette PROM as my camaro has a 350 in it. I just got done slapping a 5 spd in it but havent gotten to drive it yet cause I have been doing serious t-top repair.

What are you using to tune your crossfire? How hard was it? I have done a lot of reading in this forum but I have been bogged down with too many things going on with the camaro to worry about tuning it.

The only thing I dont like about my crossfire is I cant get it to idle below 750 rpm, which is a little high. I had the throttle bodies bushed but they still feel a little loose.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

I'm using RBob's EBL Flash for tuning. It's not hard to use at all. Biggest issue is making sure all of the rest of your hardware (sensors, vacuum lines, etc...) is in good condition.

If you can't get it to idle down, my guess is that you have a vacuum leak somewhere. Have you replaced all of the vacuum hoses?

8t2 z-chev

with the mild(but very effective)mods i did to my C/F
no special tuning was needed-i just stuck a vette chip
in the ecm and everything worked fine(for a 350 swap
you will also need the 350 'vette injectors too)
For '82 ECMs an '82 vette chip is needed,for '83 ECM
an '84 vette chip is used
When i swapped in the crossfire,i removed the A.I.R.
pump,valve,and piping but kept the EGR and canister
purge active.
gheatly,your '82 is the exact same color scheme as
mine-do you also have the "claret"interior color?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Crossfires are interesting, cool and rare. It does take some effort to learn the Crossfire voodoo though.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

My car has a grey/black interior.

I don't think there is really any voodoo in getting the system to work. It just takes time to understand how it works and how to keep it in tune. 90% of this is the same as a standard TBI system. That remaining 10% difference is really important though.

I seriously thought about putting a modified crossfire system into my '69 Camaro, but went LS instead.

supr_fly03

iTrader: (2)

I got some 350 injectors out of a conversion van in the yard, they are not clocked properly so the connectors are turned a littl on top of the injector housing. Runs much better now.

I also swapped to a TPI pump but the factory return line is too restrictive so at idle the fuel pressure stays around 20psi until I bump the throttle. I was thinking of using the EVAP line as a second return line since I dont have any emissions stuff any more.

I am going to keep an eye out for a vette PROM just to get things back into the ball park.

As far as vaccum leaks, I just swapped in a hydro boost and I was thinking of taking the upper plenum off to reseal it. All it has is silicone for a gasket (done by the previous owner).

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Does a 83 Z28 use a smaller return line than a 82-84 crossfire vette?

Idle speed is set in prom. To tune you need to swap ECU's. You could try adjusting throttle stop screw.

8t2 z-chev

supr-fly03,i think there is something wrong with your
return line-crimped pipe,swollen hose,etc.
If you don't mind a later model ECM,can modify wiring,
and can get someone to program a chip for you,you can
install the ECM out of that van(it's probably a '7747,an
ECM often used to update a C/F system)
A big advantage with the 7747and other suitable later
ECMs is they use an EPROM that can be erased and
reprogrammed easily.Since the C/F has two IAC valves
andTBI only one,a stock chip(say from the van)used
with a 7747 will result in a too-high idle speed when
used on a C/F.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

I have no problems on my 82 with FP. It's always stayed right where I set it, and its currently at 20 PSI. The pump is supposed to be a Vette TPI pump, but not sure. It whines loudly sometimes, so I think its nearing the end of its life.

I bet the high idle problem is a vacuum leak. You will be chasing these until you replace every vacuum line in the engine compartment. Also check to see if your tranny has a vacuum modulator (on TH-350s, not sure of others). I replaced all lines and still had a high idle. I finally remembered the vacuum line at the tranny (only about 2 inches long) and replacing it finally solved my high idle problem.

Darksider

I have yet to have a problem with mine, and I love my C/F regardless of any hell it plans on giving me.

n1ffer

My Crossfire is still plugging along at 130,000 miles. I have replaced all vacuum lines, the EGR, the thermal vac, and every sensor, along with an entire tune up.

Idles perfectly when hot or cold.

Fuel pump is just about completely dead, so the upgrade to a TPI pump will be forthcoming, but that isn't a Crossfire problem. Mine still runs well under normal city driving even with a weak pump.

I love the fact that they are so unique and look different than everything else you see on a car.

It is nice to see something other than a small block chevy with a carb and a large chrome aftermarket air cleaner every once in a while!

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

my KARR's crossfire runs great and i drive it all year long

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

Here is a video of the dyno day. My car's run is from about 8:50 to 9:10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12ia1JZOhTg

The HP number is incorrect, not sure where it came from. It was 240 HP on the first run as noted above. I was pretty surprised at how good the exhaust sounds. I never hear it from outside the car.

kevinc

I got $100 plus shipping when I sold my CFI system. Most favorable crossfire experience I had.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

OUCH !

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

That's ok. I also remember in the '80s when "hot rodders" replaced their fuel injection units with carbs thinking it would make their car faster.

kevinc

I didn't quite go the same direction as you're describing.

Since I bought the car in 1995 it's gone from CFI to TPI to LS1. CFI had over 210K miles on it when removed.

I still have the water manometer I fabbed up to balance my rear TB according to the Helms procedure, though. That's the smoothest you'll ever get a CFI running in my experience.

Keep 'em running guys.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

I hear you! I had a hard time deciding whether to keep the GEN I engine or go LS.

Javier

ttt
ttt

My 83 crossfire has been a blast!, its also a challenge to work on!!!

supr_fly03

iTrader: (2)

I am sure I have a restriction in my return line. I just dont know where. I thought it was the line so I just T-eed off the return line near the TB and ran it to the EVAP line. I dont know if it helped yet. I couldnt get my fuel pressure below 20 psi at idle and I havent fiddled with it since I did the line mod.

As far as idle, I just changed all of my vaccum lines and caps due to a fire, it does try and idle lower now, but the engine seems to have trouble below 750 and stumbles then idles itself back up to 700-750 ish. I am not sure if this is related to my FP or not. (NOTE: this is using the factory tach as a reference)

ASE doc

I loved my 82 TA. Those of us who remember those dark times when the V8 seemed to be doomed, will remember for instance the 81 TA with it's whopping 265cid. This was a scary time for performance buffs. The 82 with it's nice exhaust note and very presentable performance, especially for those days, was a breath of fresh air. It restored my faith in the American car maker and marked a new beginning of the muscle car wars.

I am head over heels in love with my IROC Beasty, yet I still fondly remember that 82 Crossfire. I had big plans for her then. A 350 with larger intake runners and throttle bodies, just for starters. Unfortunately, I was also young and reckless then and one night's drinking and driving brought that beautiful car's demise. If only I had kept her and had my good body man take car of her. She'd still be the beauty she was then.

Instead I let her go to a crappy used car lot in trade for an 84 HO Z28 that was never the car my 82 was. They bastardized my beautiful 82 with a crappy body repair job and cheap paint, after leaving her pristine engine uncovered in the Oregon Coast weather for months. Then sold her to a drug dealer who ended up trashing her. It killed me to watch how they treated her.

It warms my heart today to see your beautiful Crossfire F- bodies. Keep it up guys.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The evap & return lines may be crossed at the tank. On the sending unit the evap line has a restriction. Which will cause the problem you are/were having.

RBob.

supr_fly03

iTrader: (2)

Ahhh, I forgot about that. I just replaced the whole sending unit so I know the lines were not crossed on the tank end, but someone had cut a hole in the floor pan and cut all the lines coming out of the tank and then used hose and clamps to put it all back together. I replaced the hoses and doubled up the clamps for the lines when I put it back together.

I made a tool to adjust the fuel pressure but it is too fat to fit in there with the injector pod on the TB. I am not sure how to make a tool to get in there to turn while the motor is running.

Could I just unbolt the injector pod and hook the lines up and just rest the injector pod on top of the TB?

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

Super_fly03 you really need a manometer to adjust/synch the TBIs. It's similar to a to doing adjustments to a multi-carb setup. I've been going through a slow process on my '83 starting with the basics (all vacuum lines,tune up etc). I've portedcleaned up the intake base which is the second design - my Z28 is a June build '83. I have L69 exhaust manifolds/y-pipe/cat to go on her to correct the flow on that side. All the smog equipment is intact and working. Have done the consession to a factory dual electric fan setup (kept the original shroud/fan/clutch). She does run really well for her age and mileage (104K). It is good to see those sticking with CFI and they are getting few and far between. It seems people will give up on the F-Body CFI selling setups to Y-Body C4 people. This reminds me of stories of early Rochester FI being removed because of lack of understanding.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

gheatly, what kind of fuel pump are you running ?

is this the 1987 TPI fuel pump ?

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I am running the TPI pump. Fuel pressure currently set at 20#.

prcamaro82

nice thread, I have a problem maybe you guys can help a new guy out. i got a 83 camaro z28 w/305 and crossfire injection, the problem is i can't get the idle to go down its clibs and falls all on its own. i cant get it passed smog so any advice? i have changed 1 idle control motor and TPS but no change any bodie out there that can help please pulling my hair out in cali. thanks anthony

prcamaro82

got a 83 camaro with the 305 crossfire injection, can't seem to get it passed smog in cali, changed the idle control motor one of them and tps, but still idles to high any insight that my help me out? going crazy here!! thanks anthony in cali

ex-x-fire

Check for vacuum leaks, esp. at throttle linkage.
The tps is slotted, need to adjust it as in the service manual.
What are you failing in the test? Hows the tune up parts, could be a bad vacuum connection to the egr or air pump valves.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

My CFI KARR had a ton vacuum leaks, my advice replace every vacuum line and after the tune up the motor woke up. I used MSD spark plug wire, cap rotor, ignition coils and AC Delco platinum spark pugs.

Check the A.I.R./smog pump tubes for dryrot mine were rotted beyond recognition.

prcamaro82

thank you so much for the info. its failing the idle portion, its at like 8000 rpm in park and the guy said it should be about 4000 or so. so it is just idle to high. ima check all the lines and airflow valves.

gheatly

iTrader: (2)

Same problem with mine initially. Solved idle issues by replacing ALL vacuum lines. Huge PITA, but well worth it.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Does your motor surge up and down at idle? What is the RPM's at idle and when was the last tune up done?

82CrossFire Z28

iTrader: (1)

If you are running 8000rpm in park, you are running WOT. Spec RPM for this engine is 500rpm. Or did the test tech mean 8000 PPM (part per million) of whatever was being tested in park?

When you replaced the TPS did you install it correctly an adjust the output voltage to spec?

How many miles on the car? Another item that can cause problems at the emissions check is a bad CAT.

Does you check engine light work (flash on when you start the car?)? IF not, you should replace the bulb and pull any trouble codes from the ECM. If you have any codes, they may tell you what sensors are misbehaving and may need to be replaced.

prcamaro82

THANKS FOR THE INFO WILL DO...

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

any updates?

82TA90FORMULA

iTrader: (2)

I too have a Crossfire Injection in my 1982 Trans Am, great engine, anyone ever see a strut tower brace made for the CFI, someone should be able to custom make one??

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

sadly no does but you could try a later model TBI or carburator strut bar

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ed...owerbrace.aspx

but they do make a wonder bar for our cars

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/ste...bird-p-45.html

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just an FYI, any wonder bar will fit our cars. I bought one off of an '86 IROC for like $25 and put it on my Crossfire. It made a big improvement.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

actually most wonder bars will not fit a 1982 Trans AM

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Really? I never knew that. What's different?

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Some early model year 1982 Camaro and Firebird had sway bar mounting brackets with a straight bolt pattern. This was changed mid-year to the offset bolt pattern that was used through 1992. A 1982 F-body would either have to modify one of the mounting holes per side.

DizzTransAm

I <3 my CFI car, but is it supposed to run on 87 or 91?

82TA90FORMULA

iTrader: (2)

I run 87 octane with fuel injector cleaner, then once and a while 91 octane.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

it is supposed to run on 87 but since these cars a 30 years old they tend like 91 octane or higher

DizzTransAm

Ok, I usually put 87 in but the few times I put 91 in it "felt" stronger, probably just a placebo effect...

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

My 1983 cfi D500 gets better mpg and more power with 93 octane vs 87. Plus factor in boston traffic and there is a difference.

82 Indy Z

I have a 82 Indy Pace car replica that I have had since 1988. I found it used with the 305ci CFI. I had a problem with the car flooding when I came to a stop. Being a kid in high school my dad gave me the service manual and I busted my head trying to figure out my problem. We took the car to several shops and none could figure out why the car would load up and want to die when I rolled up to a stop. It wasn't until the car was stolen and the perp blew the motor, that we found out the previous owner had installed a cam. That was when the light bulb went off and we realized that the low vac was freaking out the map thinking it was under a load at low rpm. The computer was adding fuel and the engine would die. After the rebuild we installed a stock cam all was good... Back then there were no proms to compensate for the cam. I wanted more HP so i decided to upgrade to a 350. In 1994 I built a 350 with a TPI out of a 85 Camaro . In 2002 I built a 383, upgraded to TPIS Mini-Ram and a FAST EFI system. I have 2 CFI intakes and 1 TPI if someone is interested. I always got strange looks when I opened up the hood and people saw twin air cleaners. Too bad the intakes wouldn't flow well past 5K. Keep up the positive thread.

Oscar