RS-Chevy-SS

Okay so i got this L03 In my 89 RS... Heres my dilema its in need of a rebuild It eats a small amount of coolant, the valve seals are shot allowing it to burn about a quart of oil every so often...it smokes bad on start up and reaks of oil while running.... Its got about 131,000 miles on it stock everything minus the magnaflow cat and the flowmaster 3" catback.... So i can either buy a GMP Crate 350 but the thing is i dont want to have to get injectors and chips and all that... Or i can buy a rebuild kit for the 305 through new rings pistons seals do the heads and stuff and just smooth out the clyinders and keep the stock chips and injectors...I figure a good rebuilt 305 will make a noticeable increase of power then its current state...But idk any ideas?

RFmaster

Regulator

Yes, the old 305 vs. 350 dilemma. A healthy 305 will get you a better mileage while 350 will give more of the fun factor.

1) Your 305 sounds pretty sick - do you know where you loosing coolant? A blown head gasket means additional head work would be required during rebuild. CHP just did an article covering cast iron head rebuild - about $900 completely rebuilt. While brand new aluminium stuff was another 300 bucks. You can find outfits that sell rebuild heads for about $400.
2) When you tear your heads off you may find that cylinders are worn past a service limit and rings are hopelessly tired. Now you have to get into a bottom end. That's another can of worms - depending on machine shop you are looking at another 900 to 1200 for basic stock rebuild.

3) Another option is to get a complete 305 from JY - but that is another big gamble. Look at plugs, oil etc.

4) There are about dozen engines listed in GMPP catalog. Since both of us live eco-**** Kalifornia we have to deal with bi-annual smog checks. So engine selection is limited.

5) If you choose go 350 route, to get things going, for 'tame' 350 you can get away by using 305 injectors and increasing fuel pressure. Long term solution would require some EPROM work. Depending on your comfort level with TBI tuning it may be an easy task or not. You have to ask yourself this question and be honest.

//RF

vipershark11

iTrader: (6)

unless youre burning your own chips you wont get a noticable power gain with the stock setup/computer. if anything (cheapest route) is find where the coolant is leaking 2 main spots could be the freeze plugs on the block or the intake manifold gasket. my money is on the intake manifold. then take off your valve covers and fix those valve seals yourself with a little bit of time the car wont be leaking anything and running fine for next to nothing. if you do it yourself that is

RS-Chevy-SS

Ahh yes RFMaster...My master at solving all my issues...We meet again...

1)Yeah the 305 is preety sick but I take back the whole coolant thing...I remember i found out why it was losing...Because the houst at the thermastat housing is bad and is losing small amount of coolant at the housing...
2) Yeah i know almost for a fact that the clyinders will need to be at least honed(isnt that were they just kind of buff them) Also I kinda want to just send the motor off as a whole and get it shipped back fully assembled minus TBI and bolt on stuff to just be able to slap it in and be able to feel like i got a new factory 305 no smoking or oil smell with a little kick of power... Now dont get me wrong she still feels torquey but ive lost one to many races to a chevy 1500 truck... I met this guy today in my town that also has a 305 TBI 89 rebuilt with power!!! But i didnt get to know him enough to soak up his knowledege....
3) About the smog...The small town i live in is exempt from smog!! YES!!! Which means that this tired 305 doesnt have to worry about horribly failing CA smog!!! unless its sold to someone else

RS-Chevy-SS

bump

RFmaster

Well - it is nice to live where the big brother does not try to enter through the hmm exhaust pipe.

Regarding 305 vs. 350 - this discussion goes a long way back to disco era when 305 first appeared as a sad attempt to provide some resemblance of fuel economy in V8 powered car. I used to own 2bbl-305CID powered '76 Chevy Malibu Classic (coupe) which managed 22 mpg doing I-5 from Sacto to LA non stop. Engine use to turn 1800 RPM at 70Mph! It had no of line capability, but once it was moving it was a comfy ride!

In your case. To get a serious performance out of 305 will require free flowing exhaust, heads, cam and enough fuel to satisfy its new found appetite. Now - I am no authority on all of the above, but from reading published reports it takes more money to get equivalent power out 305 vs. 350. Please, do not take it as a gospel, but reality is that there is no replacement for cubic inch displacement. It is all about bucks and how thick is your wallet.

For crates - I did a quick search -take a look at the two links. See what you think:

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...gines-C63.aspx


89-93 Caprice,89-92 Camaro 305CI New Goodwrench Engine 12518296 Item #12518296 12518296 89-93 Caprice,89-92 Camaro 305CI Goodwrench Engine MSRP: $3,158.40 Your Price: $1,576.50

1992 - 1993 Chevy, Buick 350 (L05) New Goodwrench Engine 12513151 Item #12513151 12513151 1992 - 1993 Chevy, Buick 350 (L05) New Goodwrench Engine MSRP: $3,094.03 Your Price: $1,758.00


These are stock replacements - hint not high performance, but in my book it is 350 CID just because $$$$ difference is small enough.

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Does that 305 Have all the same parts as my current? What kinda power are we talking? 170? 185? 900? Lol I like the L05 But i dont want to get into chips and fuel injectors and stuff.....

RFmaster

Hey Regulator

You ask good questions man! From what I was able to find these L03

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

if your putting in or rebuilding an engine, this stuff will be the least of your worries. Id buy the tuning equipment now and familiarize yourself with it, and then buy or build the motor you want.

RFmaster

TBI can be tuned to deliver a serious performance, with a right combination of engine parts.

The question is do you have a realistic goal, plan and budget to achieve what you seek???? When I start pondering about long term - heavy budget projects I put all my options into a spreadsheet. By taking time analyzing my options before turning wrenches prevented several - ohh I could have V8 moments. Changing direction in the middle of the project, typically is very expensive and time consuming, especially when you have to undo previous work or replace parts.

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Why thank you RF Haha I try to pick at your brain...With the suggested cam change which cam would i use? Would this require chips and injectors and stuff? Remember i have absolutely no knoweldge what so ever when it comes to chips so id have to do trial and error. Another question is..is 170 hp enough to win races agains stock mustangs and chevy trucks and stuff? I dont think my L03 is putting out that kind of power that it should. Im thinking with the full exhaust minus tuning how many horses increase? Also is this 305 a lot more efficient than mine being that it has newer engineering and stuff? Does it make a lil more power? Idk why they dont put these specs on the site....
----------
Well id like to spend no more than 2 thousand or soo....I want to rebuild my 305 or buy a new 305 to slap in and not have to worry about the headaches of tuning and or upping fuel system... I want the motor to have a torquey feel that will break em loose when asked and something that will hold its own at the stop light when some old ford pulls up and wants to race....I want a racey feeling but im not looking for 300 horsed although it would be nice i want something that will run good and have power when needed

RFmaster

Oh OK, so you really want to know....

Here is what I think given budget constraints. In order to get biggest bang for your hard earned dollars I would consider the following:

1) Locate a 88-92 305 core - these are relatively common and inexpensive. I see these all the time here in LA-LA land for about $200 and up. Make sure that core engine has roller cam (take off intake - check out the spider). Do a basic bottom end rebuild job if it needs it!!. Another option is to find an engine shop that is willing to sell you a rebuilt short block outright. Since this is a street engine nothing fancy is required - just basic bearings, rings, pistons. Maybe rod bolts and re-seize. Look around, ask questions (tow truck drivers can get you a right tips or even get you a freebie).
2) Get an updated hydraulic roller cam - for a stock engine do not go crazy with duration. Big duration cams kill bottom end where 305 develops most of its torque. ie. stay close to 200-210 degree of advertised duration, but no more. Make sure that it's EFI friendly!!!
3) You can get a complete rebuilt set of 58cc heads for about $300 of ebay. For example see action 180171762821
4)For this engine to breath properly you'll need headers and 3" exhaust system.
5)Fun is putting it all together...

Too much ???? Just a thought (price -it to make sure) - consider it or set it aside. No hard feelings.

//RF

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I would base my build off of a 1996-2002 Chevy 305 or 350 Vortec truck engine. The heavier vehicles with the 4L80E typically have 4-bolt mains.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...i-buildup.html

RS-Chevy-SS

RF,

I take all of your ideas into great consideration...I dont really want to rebuild a motor unless its the one i currently have...If not i want everything new...A bout the cam i dont want get into that whole thing because im really not tech savy when it comes to engine assembly and terminal modifications...Aswell as that would require tuning....Heads idk if i could find a place in little old blythe here that i could just send my heads to and get them redone then that would be ok i guess...would that help hp without tuning? Thanks RF

RFmaster

Regulator

What ever you do before you do it perform cost - benefit analysis. It is a business tool which allows to facilitate decision making process easier. In other words setup a spreadsheet for each approach under consideration.

Given your reluctance toward modifying stock ECM EPROM you have basicly precluded from using higher performance heads and cam. To take full advantage of the later fueling tables must be adjusted since the volumetric efficiency of the engine has been altered.

Also, do not take my rumblings as gospel - it is only my point of view. There are other members who've done engine rebuilds and swaps and their experience is equally invaluable.

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Yeah im a little ignorant when it comes to messing with the EPROM. All i want is the most bang for $2000... Will that 305 give me that?

RFmaster

Regulator

Tell you the truth (after reviewing your limitations) - probably at the beginning you will be happy, but after a while you will want more power. It is almost always true. If this car is strictly for weekends I would drop crate 350, get 65 lb-hr injectors and call it a base line. If it is a daily driver than a replacement 305 would have to do its daily duties.

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Well were can i get a new 350 with reasonable HP and something that will work with my TBI? also were can i get a chip to run it?

RS-Chevy-SS

Bump!

RFmaster

Regulator

Good Morning - busy weekend here. I think you need to open a new post with a specific question. Also, review 305 to 350 sticky conversion.

As a point of reference, I have used 305 calibrated ECM with my 350 (with 350 TBI injectors) - 305 calibration was sufficient enough to start, idle and drive around the block. However I did not experimented with 305 calibration any further and to get the full spectrum of performance further tuning would be required, or an engine specific EPROM should be sourced..

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Idk thanks RF....Im thinking that im just going to end up buying like a replacement 305 core with better heads and maybe a cam....Im not sure though this project is still behind a lil on the list...Headers is the current business...

bluers91

If your looking for a cheap and easy 350 baseline you have the L05 option. Find an L05 or buy a crate one. Get a computer, chip, knock sensor and 350 TBI from a 350 truck and your up and running.

Your still going to want more power at a certain point, but at least you have the starting point for later upgrades.

I personally would get the 330hp 350 from GM, and learn to tune it for best results.

RS-Chevy-SS

What did the L05 come in? Also what 350 from GM are you talking about?

RFmaster

Regulator

Go back up - my original comments:
1992 - 1993 Chevy, Buick 350 (L05) New Goodwrench Engine 12513151 1992 - 1993 Chevy, Buick 350 (L05) New Goodwrench Engine

Back in those days L05 with TBI were installed in B-bodies. Hence plenty of low end torque.

//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

RF you are my savior... okay talk to me about the computer and tuning. Also about the injector and stuff ill need

RFmaster

Regulator

You will have to do a bit of reading on your own. There is a great sticky - everything you want to know about 305 to 350 conversion:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...-350-swap.html

read it - and than read it again - and we will talk. Once you know what's involved you'll be better prepared to ask right questions and formulate a conversion plan! (BTW do you know which ECM and broadcast code your Camaro is equipped with??)

Meanwhile - are you a JY hunter???? Parts required for conversion can be acquired on a budget.

From my experience involving C3 ECM tuning I started with FLASH chips ($5) and Moates adaptor ($30), EPROM programmer (~$100), WinALDL cable ($70), WinALDL (free) and TunerPro (free or donate) and a dumpster rescued Pentium II lappy.
Recently, I've upgraded one of my ECMs to EBL flash - this is a very powerful system which allows for real time changes, hands free (just a laptop). See dynamic EFI:
http://www.dynamicefi.com/

All of this is probably way too much information at once ----- read sticky first!!!! Again spend the time - put together a plan.



//RF

RS-Chevy-SS

Okay Ive looked at that topic... I guess what im looking for is links to all the parts i need (including block and stuff) so all id have to do is buy and install...I dont know which 350 block to get....I dont wanna get one from the junk yard....

RS-Chevy-SS

Bump!

89IrocPballa

how much does your LO3 smoke. Mine has a little ploom when I start it but not much. The guy who sold it to me told me that when you leave it off for a day some oil leaks around the valve and burns it off (not a significant amount just a little and then doesn't leak any more).....The reason I am asking is because I have put about a half liter of coolant in my car twice to just make even with that line on their, and the level kept dropping about to where it was and staying there not going down further. I am pretty sure the radiator is just filling up and it was never full but I want to be sure.
Sorry, though not trying to steal your thread. If it helps I am kinda in the same position.

RS-Chevy-SS

Mine smokes a puff of oil out on startup only then it goes away...From what ive heard it also throws a lil bit of smoke at WOT about 4000 RPM...Mine is preety much the same as yours minus the coolant thing...Mine stays good on coolant for a long long while...I havent had to add any since i replaced the radiator about 6 months ago because it had a core leak and thats were my coolant was going.....