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I'm slowly but surely piecing my 91 Camaro back together, but I've hit a roadblock on the steering column and was hoping for some guidance.
Originally, everything worked fine (signals, wipers, ignition, horn) except I had the dreaded tilt steering slop. When I put any sort of downward pressure on the wheel, the tilt column shifted down and slightly to the side.
I pulled the column and (using these instructions) disassembled it down to the lower housing assembly where the four notorious torx bolts live. However, I was surprised to find that these were actually standard bolts! Also, all four were tight. Since I was in there anyway, I removed the bolts, checked to make sure they were the proper length, added a dab of blue loctite one bolt at a time, then reassembled the column (using these instructions). I still have slop, same amount and direction.
I pulled the column apart again, and I'm back to the lower housing assembly. I thought I'd check in and see if I'm missing something obvious here. I did clean and re-grease a few things in the column, but aside from that I'm using all the same parts. Based on those documents I linked above, I'm not missing any parts and nothing looks broken or damaged.
Anyone have any ideas? Or, assuming I put the thing back together and still can't get rid of that slop, anyone know of a place that rebuilds these columns? Thanks in advance!
You'll likely need to replace the main pin. I have personally never done it but there are videos on the interwebs. Specifically 3rdgen guys YouTube channel. He is a member here and posts great how too videos on the web, one of which is rebuilding the stock column.
You'll likely need to replace the main pin. I have personally never done it but there are videos on the interwebs. Specifically 3rdgen guys YouTube channel. He is a member here and posts great how too videos on the web, one of which is rebuilding the stock column.
Thanks for the reply and the video suggestion! Just to clarify, are you talking about the two pins (one on each side of the column) which require a puller tool? These guys:
One of mine required quite a bit of effort to get out, the other came out pretty easily. It didn't fall out or anything, but I barely needed to snug down the puller before it came loose. I'll try measuring those holes to see if a repair is needed.
Also, for anyone else who stumbles across the thread, the video is here:
Replace those two tilt pins in your previous post. Not too hard to do. Be sure to check the holes in the column they press into to ensure they are not worn out. Most likely won't be, but it's possible.
The 4 bolts should be external Torx. Maybe the bolts you have there are bottoming out before they tighten up on the housing??
That was my first thought too, and I did check the length. They are the correct length, and judging from the video that ShiftyCapone pointed me towards it looks like some of the columns may have had standard bolts from the factory (maybe it's a 90/91-up thing). Thank you for the suggestion though!
Replace those two tilt pins in your previous post. Not too hard to do. Be sure to check the holes in the column they press into to ensure they are not worn out. Most likely won't be, but it's possible.
That's my plan! I'm going to measure the holes and check for any deformation/oval shape. I'll plan to replace both pins unless the holes are stretched out.
I did find someone who sells oversized pins individually, so if needed reaming out one of the holes is an option (I think given the range of movement that I only have an issue one one pin/hole). In the video I linked earlier the guy uses the original pins but reams out the hole and installs a sleeve - I really don't want to go that route but I will if I have to!
I checked the holes for any issues. No signs of deforming, no oval shape. The pins themselves look fine. A quick check with a caliper (not the ideal tool, I know) shows the pins and holes are all the correct size according to the measurements provided in the video I linked earlier. I took several measurements of each just in case, they're all very close.
On one side the pin needs to be tapped in with a small hammer and punch. On the other side I can use both hands to force the pin in - it's not easy, but I can get it to sit flush. Does that sound tight enough, or should I still look at replacing the pins?
I just don't see how I could get the range of motion I'm seeing (about a 2-3" downward shift and a 1" sideways shift if I put weight on the top of the wheel) with the pins that tight.
I haven't reassembled the column again, but I wanted to see if anyone else had ideas before I reassemble the thing a second time. Thoughts?
Last edited by BovineZro; 08-01-2023 at 02:37 PM.
Reason: Including additional information
I checked the holes for any issues. No signs of deforming, no oval shape. The pins themselves look fine. A quick check with a caliper (not the ideal tool, I know) shows the pins and holes are all the correct size according to the measurements provided in the video I linked earlier. I took several measurements of each just in case, they're all very close.
On one side the pin needs to be tapped in with a small hammer and punch. On the other side I can use both hands to force the pin in - it's not easy, but I can get it to sit flush. Does that sound tight enough, or should I still look at replacing the pins?
I just don't see how I could get the range of motion I'm seeing (about a 2-3" downward shift and a 1" sideways shift if I put weight on the top of the wheel) with the pins that tight.
I haven't reassembled the column again, but I wanted to see if anyone else had ideas before I reassemble the thing a second time. Thoughts?
I would say if there is no slop in the pins when you insert them, then you should be just fine.
Also, on page 64 of the instructions for assembling the column, the two adjustable aluminum spacers that hold the column to the dash, are those loose by chance?
I would say if there is no slop in the pins when you insert them, then you should be just fine.
I appreciate the input there, but I'm confused as to where else the slop could be coming from. I'm getting quite a bit of movement from somewhere, but it's not the two most common causes (four bolts in the lower housing or pivot pins). Shaft bearings maybe? Tilt pawls? I'm at a loss for where else to look.
Originally Posted by Shadyredeyes
Also, on page 64 of the instructions for assembling the column, the two adjustable aluminum spacers that hold the column to the dash, are those loose by chance?
Good thought! But those spacers are tight. Just to clarify, when the column is installed I'm getting play in the tilt mechanism itself, but the lower portion of the column is rock solid against the dash and firewall.
If it would be helpful, I can reassemble everything and grab some video of the slop. That will have to wait until the weekend. In the meantime if anyone else has suggestions I'd really appreciate it!
Identify what parts sit still when this motion occurs, and what parts move.
Otherwise it's like people who ask about vibrations, but can't/won't separate them into wheel or drivetrain related. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. We can all sit out here and guess all day long about what "might" be wrong, but if we ACTUALLY KNEW where the slop ACTUALLY IS, we could help point you right to the cause.
Identify what parts sit still when this motion occurs, and what parts move.
Otherwise it's like people who ask about vibrations, but can't/won't separate them into wheel or drivetrain related. Maybe it's this, maybe it's that. We can all sit out here and guess all day long about what "might" be wrong, but if we ACTUALLY KNEW where the slop ACTUALLY IS, we could help point you right to the cause.
I will reassemble the column this weekend, and I'll check everything piece by piece as it goes back in. I'll also grab some video and pictures so other folks can see what I'm seeing. I was just hoping to narrow things down a bit before reassembling the thing (and I did get some good suggestions here, they just weren't the cause of the problem). Last reassembly took me over three hours, so I don't want to keep disassembling/reassembling without checking common failure points first.
One thing I'll check before reassembly is the lower housing bolt plate. It's basically the first part to go into the column, and it's what the four bolts that pass through the lower housing assembly thread into.
You can see it's held into place by the metal of the column itself - two holes, and two little tabs. I'm thinking that if the upper right or lower left tab is bent or deformed, it might let that whole plate wobble around, which would effectively let the whole lower housing assembly move.
Anyway, I'll pull the column further apart, check that, then put the column back together and see if I still have slop (and grab a video if so).
Might want to take the column completely out to check that, before reassembly. Once the under-dash trim pieces are out, there's 3 screws at the firewall, one bolt through the under-hood column section, about 4 or 5 electric connectors, and 2 bolts under the dash. Only takes acoupla minutes, maybe 5 if you're slow and stuuupid like me, but you can probably do it quicker. With it out it's easy to take off the outer shroud and see if the plate is secure, the outer tube is expanded or bent or flattened or cracked or whatever, etc.
Might want to take the column completely out to check that, before reassembly. Once the under-dash trim pieces are out, there's 3 screws at the firewall, one bolt through the under-hood column section, about 4 or 5 electric connectors, and 2 bolts under the dash. Only takes acoupla minutes, maybe 5 if you're slow and stuuupid like me, but you can probably do it quicker. With it out it's easy to take off the outer shroud and see if the plate is secure, the outer tube is expanded or bent or flattened or cracked or whatever, etc.
Sorry, I should have mentioned the column is already out of the car (my lower back thanks me). It's much easier to work on outside of the car, for sure!
Originally Posted by t/adreams
Take pics of your step by step and post them so it'll help others in the future! Plus, if you get stuck, we'll have a 'pathway' you know?
I will do exactly that! I've been traveling for the past couple weeks and I apologize for the lack of updates, but I'm going to document this as thoroughly as possible. It seems like a weird case to me but I'm sure someone will run across this in the future.
Work picked up quite a bit and I haven't had a chance to come back and update this, but I've resolved the issue and I wanted to share my findings.
As a refresher, I was seeing slop in the tilt column when pressure was applied to the top of the wheel. This would cause the wheel to shift down a few inches, and to the side about an inch.
I checked the four torx bolts that hold the knuckle to the column, although on mine they were flanged hex head bolts. They were fully tightened and has locktite already applied, which should have been my first clue. Next, I checked the two tilt pins. Those are fairly tight; one needs to be tapped in with a small hammer, the other one can be pushed in by hand with some effort. Probably something to keep an eye on as it may round out more over time, but no way does that explain the amount of slop I was seeing.
After checking everything, reassembling, and reinstalling, I still had slop. Employing some choice four letter words, I pulled the column out and apart again, where I found a single ball bearing lodged in the tilt lever and pawl mechanism (all the bearings were present in the support knuckle, so I'm guessing someone did the bearings in the past and lost one of the old ones - which makes sense given the loctite on the bolts). When you use the tilt lever, it retracts two pawls which alternate engagement as you tilt the wheel up and down. As best I can tell, the ball bearing was wedged in juuuust right to allow a slight engagement, so everything looked and felt fine with the column out on the bench. However, when significant stress was put on the wheel (eg, a 200lb guy grabbing the wheel when entering/exiting the car) the pawl would disengage and allow movement.
Sadly I didn't take any pictures of this, but the takeaway is to inspect this area closely. If you're already in the column looking for one of the other common causes of slop (rounded out tilt pin holes or loose torx bolts holding the knuckle to the column) may as well check in here too. A pick is helpful.
I've included a few cropped images from the excellent Jazzman manual for GM tilt column assembly:
Tilt lever (the ball bearing was preventing this from fully returning to the "locked" position).
Tilt engagement pawls. They looked like they were locked into place (and felt that way too) but they'd slip when enough force was put on the column. Trying to tilt the column with it out of the car didn't allow for enough leverage to cause them to disengage, but they'd do it every time in the car.
....... However, when significant stress was put on the wheel (eg, a 200lb guy grabbing the wheel when entering/exiting the car) the pawl would disengage and allow movement.......
Congrats on your repair's success!
And, with all due respect and not being a smartazz here, , , Butt!, , even a minty fresh perfect condition column won't hold up to being a handrail for a 200# guy (or gal) for very long
And, with all due respect and not being a smartazz here, , , Butt!, , even a minty fresh perfect condition column won't hold up to being a handrail for a 200# guy (or gal) for very long
Oh believe me, I know! This is one of my worst habits with all of my cars and one I'm still trying to break (before I break a column, ha). To clarify though, I would see this movement with any sort of stress on the column. Turning the wheel was enough to get unwanted movement.
07-31-2023, 12:38 PM
) for very long 
