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I'm a newb.
I have a 1988 Z28 that I want to build for handling, not drag.
Which K Member should I consider?
What front suspension kit should I consider?
I just purchased the RSM long front kit to remove the front end entirely.
I was looking at a BMR K Member which can help with an easy LS swap. What year pinto rack do I need? Are the racks different year pinto racks for different K Members?
What hubs shocks, spindles and springs should I run?
Can I use the BMR adjustable suspension parts (camber/caster)? Or are there better recommended options?
As far as the rear I imagine once I am pointed in the right direction for the front the rear should follow suit.
Stock k-meber is best for handling and the pinto racks are for the drag racing guys.
IMO Detroit Speed and UMI are leading the way for parts that improve handling. Koni yellow struts and shocks unless you can afford better then the spring and sway bar game comes into effect and dont forget sub frame connectors.
Last edited by obeymybird; 03-06-2021 at 10:27 AM.
I haven't see anyone use the QA1 kit or much of any of their parts for that matter. Like I said factory k-member is best if it wasn't the dse iroc wouldn't still have it in place. Stay away from front coilover setups.
If you still feel the need to go aftermarket k-member look at umi's roadrace one.
I haven't see anyone use the QA1 kit or much of any of their parts for that matter. Like I said factory k-member is best if it wasn't the dse iroc wouldn't still have it in place. Stay away from front coilover setups.
If you still feel the need to go aftermarket k-member look at umi's roadrace one.
BMR has an upper spring "KIT"as their K member does not have the upper pockets, I presume that is for road handling?
Unless you need the space, there is really no reason to go to an aftermarket crossmember, it is the stiffest with a small trade off for weight, but the weight is in a good place, low. The rest of the suspension is where you will find gains
Unless you need the space, there is really no reason to go to an aftermarket crossmember, it is the stiffest with a small trade off for weight, but the weight is in a good place, low. The rest of the suspension is where you will find gains
Ok, thanks I appreciate it!
Do you recommend anything for the rear setup handling wise? I see Heidts has an IRS setup but looks pricey. Im sure its great. Any other rear setups I can consider?
I haven't see anyone use the QA1 kit or much of any of their parts for that matter. Like I said factory k-member is best if it wasn't the dse iroc wouldn't still have it in place. Stay away from front coilover setups.
If you still feel the need to go aftermarket k-member look at umi's roadrace one.
Yea the DSE IROC is pretty mean. Those weight jacks look pretty neat too!
Do you recommend anything for the rear setup handling wise? I see Heidts has an IRS setup but looks pricey. Im sure its great. Any other rear setups I can consider?
What do you want to do with the car?
I'll be doing some road racing and I'll be using an essentially stock rear suspension. I am going to try to get an UBE decoupled torque arm, but if not I might try my hand at fabbing my own. Up front I am going to use the DSE lower arms, strut mounts and sway bar.
Alternatively, for the rear, you could go with a DSE Quadralink.
As for the rear suspension, if you are not trying to save the last tenth off of lap times, the stock style suspension is hard to beat. a few good upgrades such as: Weight jacks, double adjustable shocks, heim jointed adjustable LCA, heim jointed adjustable panard bar, adjustable torque arm, and slotted brackets at all location points.
With the upgrades listed above, alignment, bar angles, corner weight, and shock tuning become paramount. I would say that 95% of enthusiast don't have the skill or ability to maximize this suspension. There is a reason why CorteX and Maximum Motorsports sell a torque arm suspension upgrade for Mustangs, TCI and BMR sells one for First Gen F-Bodies, and chassisworks fabs several for different makes and models. It's one of the most simple, adjustable, and robust designs.
I'll be doing some road racing and I'll be using an essentially stock rear suspension. I am going to try to get an UBE decoupled torque arm, but if not I might try my hand at fabbing my own. Up front I am going to use the DSE lower arms, strut mounts and sway bar.
Alternatively, for the rear, you could go with a DSE Quadralink.
I want to build a similar car to the DSE car. Pro Touring style.
Thank you all for the tips on keeping it mostly stock.
As for the rear suspension, if you are not trying to save the last tenth off of lap times, the stock style suspension is hard to beat. a few good upgrades such as: Weight jacks, double adjustable shocks, heim jointed adjustable LCA, heim jointed adjustable panard bar, adjustable torque arm, and slotted brackets at all location points.
With the upgrades listed above, alignment, bar angles, corner weight, and shock tuning become paramount. I would say that 95% of enthusiast don't have the skill or ability to maximize this suspension. There is a reason why CorteX and Maximum Motorsports sell a torque arm suspension upgrade for Mustangs, TCI and BMR sells one for First Gen F-Bodies, and chassisworks fabs several for different makes and models. It's one of the most simple, adjustable, and robust designs.
That all makes sense to me. What do you mean by bar angles, the adjustibilty of the points to fine tune?
I presume the slotted brackets you are suggesting strengthen the connections?
Bar Angle is a racer jargen for the angle of a lateral control arm. The rear Lower Control Arm (A.K.A. LCA's) are the two suspension components that connect the rear end housing to the chassis. In stock form, the attachment points are fixed on both the chassis and the rear housing. several manufacturers make brackets that bolt to the rear housing and allows for different mounting points, thus changing the angle of the LCA relative to a fixed point, such as the frame rail. The angle of the LCA affects the Anti-squat property of the rear end.
All of these changes are done to increase, or sometimes decrease, the grip level and angle of the rear tires. Extreme bar angle can be seen on dirt super late models. the rear end actually steers the car though the corners. Watch a couple videos of the rear suspension on those cars in action, and it might help you visualize what is happening to the rear suspension in a very dramatic fashion. Those cars are wild.
Scooter, the decoupled torque arm appears to be similar to a three link and lift bar setup that circle track dirt modifieds like to run. It would be interesting to try.
I'm not a road racer, but I know the smart money goes into shocks, shocks, shocks, shocks, strut tower caster/camber plates, and subframe connectors. Oh, and shocks too. Everything else is pretty much just taking the flex out of the car and freeing up suspension movement with the right kinds of bushings at each location.
Detroit Speed makes some really good subframe connectors but it requires cutting up the car.
I'm not a road racer, but I know the smart money goes into shocks, shocks, shocks, shocks, strut tower caster/camber plates, and subframe connectors. Oh, and shocks too. Everything else is pretty much just taking the flex out of the car and freeing up suspension movement with the right kinds of bushings at each location.
Detroit Speed makes some really good subframe connectors but it requires cutting up the car.
Im a road guy too, dirt oval also. Thanks for the tip on the SFC I was wondering who was recommended on those. I dont mind cutting a little.
Also for steering. Turn One steering gears are our favorite choice. I don't know of any racks that work properly...
Thanks for all the name drops but that does me nothing. I'm not sure why you mentioned all those folks, are they drag racers? To my knowledge you don't sell any handling kits I can see for the 82-92 Camaro as a kit, everything is piecemealed and looks great for the drags. If you actually read the thread above nobody suggest to change the K member from stock EXCEPT for you? Is saving 25 pounds of weight from the K member the answer to setting up the car to handle? Is that your recommendation?
What is a Dragon Lady?
I'd prefer you list you parts on here so others besides me can see what you are talking about and let them chime in as to their experience with your quality and customer service.
Dude dont give UMI crap for your lack of knowledge their just trying to help and they have a pile of handling parts you just dont seem to have a clue on what your doing also I did recommend the umi roadrace k-member above if you wanted to change it out.
Dude dont give UMI crap for your lack of knowledge their just trying to help and they have a pile of handling parts you just dont seem to have a clue on what your doing also I did recommend the umi roadrace k-member above if you wanted to change it out.
Thanks for all the name drops but that does me nothing. I'm not sure why you mentioned all those folks, are they drag racers? To my knowledge you don't sell any handling kits I can see for the 82-92 Camaro as a kit, everything is piecemealed and looks great for the drags. If you actually read the thread above nobody suggest to change the K member from stock EXCEPT for you? Is saving 25 pounds of weight from the K member the answer to setting up the car to handle? Is that your recommendation?
What is a Dragon Lady?
I'd prefer you list you parts on here so others besides me can see what you are talking about and let them chime in as to their experience with your quality and customer service.
I would suggest you do a little more research before you badmouth someone for trying to help you out. If you did said research you would know who UMI is and that their products are geared for both drag and road race/autocross. They are one of the leaders in 3rd gen suspension upgrades. You would also know who some of the people are they mentioned. They are at the top of the class for autocross and road racing. Not trying to be a ahole but you came here looking for help and now your getting all pissed off over someone giving you info you wanted. And as for UMI's quality and customer service it's top notch. I run their weight jacks, front and rear control arms, and panhard bar.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 03-12-2021 at 02:33 PM.
no,but you seem to be mad for some reason? this is all about knowing a little something BEFORE talking....sometimes its better to listen,then talk
ill take a wild guess and place you in your early 20s,right? here is a little advice,when you become interested in something spend some time and educate yourself a little before asking a lot of stupid questions,this way the information you get (after grasping the basics of what you are trying to learn about)is good,relevant and usable not just run of the mill common sense info..
I don't see the point in a k-member unless you're trying to free up some space. I have a BMR k-member and it's just flat out flimsy. I'd pretty much have to remove it if I wanted to autocross or road race.
Heidts is rarely ever talked about on this board. They do something different than everybody else by dialing in something like 3 degrees of anti dive into the a-arm mounts. It's very strong, I'm not even sure it's a weight reduction. I never looked at one seriously because it probably won't clear an LS oil pan. But it sounds like somebody posted earlier that they do have experience with it.
I would suggest you do a little more research before you badmouth someone for trying to help you out. If you did said research you would know who UMI is and that their products are geared for both drag and road race/autocross. They are one of the leaders in 3rd gen suspension upgrades. You would also know who some of the people are they mentioned. They are at the top of the class for autocross and road racing. Not trying to be a ahole but you came here looking for help and now your getting all pissed off over someone giving you info you wanted. And as for UMI's quality and customer service it's top notch. I run their weight jacks, front and rear control arms, and panhard bar.
I can handle a response like this, thank you this is actually helpful hence why I asked such direct questions. Your defensiveness is either paid or is genuine, if you thought differently you wouldn't have commented.
I admitted I'm new and am looking for information. I don't know a thing. I bought this car for $400 and have it torn to the bare bones. It will be what I want. If people agree with what you say then I should tend to agree too, but we arent there yet, at least I am not. My goal is to actually learn and research and upon that I did not find anything the sales rep mentioned about my car on THIER website as a staged kit like they have for MANY other cars.
Wondering why they dont was my question, sorry if that wasn't how I asked it. That's what I meant.
So in conclusion, Thank you...for not taking this as a personal attack on anyone, sorry if anyone feels that way let's just move forward please. I'm here to understand that if I am going to spend 10-15 grand on a setup it better dam be good. Agreed? And do what I want. That my goal here.
I would be very careful of bad mouthing one of the top brands of suspension components for our platform. Also, as it's generally not the first suspension part to change, a K-Member that is 25 Lbs lighter will have a significant impact on a car that is already extremely nose heavy. As far as any changes for the suspension geometry, I don't know if the UMI K-Member has any changes. Hopefully someone can inform us on the details.
As far as "kits", there is a reason why you won't find many listed online. If you are at the level (and price bracket) of needing serious suspension components, any suspension company worth their salt will want to know your plans for the car. They will put together a package that works for your need, and give you a decent base line. For example, the spring weights for an autocross car can be very different than a car running, say, Road Atlanta. Also, they want to build a relationship with you. I wouldn't be surprised if they want feedback on their products.
By the way, UMI also runs UMI Motrosports Park, where they run an autocross challange each year in July. Their event is currently sold out with over 125 drivers registered. I would say they have an idea on how to make these cars handle.
no,but you seem to be mad for some reason? this is all about knowing a little something BEFORE talking....sometimes its better to listen,then talk
ill take a wild guess and place you in your early 20s,right? here is a little advice,when you become interested in something spend some time and educate yourself a little before asking a lot of stupid questions,this way the information you get (after grasping the basics of what you are trying to learn about)is good,relevant and usable not just run of the mill common sense info..
I would be very careful of bad mouthing one of the top brands of suspension components for our platform. Also, as it's generally not the first suspension part to change, a K-Member that is 25 Lbs lighter will have a significant impact on a car that is already extremely nose heavy. As far as any changes for the suspension geometry, I don't know if the UMI K-Member has any changes. Hopefully someone can inform us on the details.
As far as "kits", there is a reason why you won't find many listed online. If you are at the level (and price bracket) of needing serious suspension components, any suspension company worth their salt will want to know your plans for the car. They will put together a package that works for your need, and give you a decent base line. For example, the spring weights for an autocross car can be very different than a car running, say, Road Atlanta. Also, they want to build a relationship with you. I wouldn't be surprised if they want feedback on their products.
By the way, UMI also runs UMI Motrosports Park, where they run an autocross challange each year in July. Their event is currently sold out with over 125 drivers registered. I would say they have an idea on how to make these cars handle.
Wow I am watching the Youtube of their 2019 event now, impressive! Looks fun!
I don't see the point in a k-member unless you're trying to free up some space. I have a BMR k-member and it's just flat out flimsy. I'd pretty much have to remove it if I wanted to autocross or road race.
Heidts is rarely ever talked about on this board. They do something different than everybody else by dialing in something like 3 degrees of anti dive into the a-arm mounts. It's very strong, I'm not even sure it's a weight reduction. I never looked at one seriously because it probably won't clear an LS oil pan. But it sounds like somebody posted earlier that they do have experience with it.
There is another user above who has a HEIDTS and said he loves it. Your comment about the UNI K member here garners my same fear. I agree leaving the stock K member provides the best option for handling, unless the HEIDTS is a better piece because they actually adjust the poor suspension angle provided with the stock 3rd gen geometry.
I'm not overly concerned with weight reduction as I intend to have enough horsepower that that won't make it relevant. I do plan on cutting the front apart and running a full fiberglass front end, using the Rock Solid short kit most likely.
I was researching LS oil pans and the attitude seems to be the F body version clears best, but for which K members im unsure.
The thing that's so important to remember is that there are SOOOOO many variables, so what makes one product good for one, won't be good for another. My 2 cents would be to start off with the idea of NOT replacing the K member. -THEN....if you find parts that require an aftermarket K for spring perches or maybe LS pan clearance, etc. etc, you can make the switch.
The thing that's so important to remember is that there are SOOOOO many variables, so what makes one product good for one, won't be good for another. My 2 cents would be to start off with the idea of NOT replacing the K member. -THEN....if you find parts that require an aftermarket K for spring perches or maybe LS pan clearance, etc. etc, you can make the switch.
I can handle a response like this, thank you this is actually helpful hence why I asked such direct questions. Your defensiveness is either paid or is genuine, if you thought differently you wouldn't have commented.
I admitted I'm new and am looking for information. I don't know a thing. I bought this car for $400 and have it torn to the bare bones. It will be what I want. If people agree with what you say then I should tend to agree too, but we arent there yet, at least I am not. My goal is to actually learn and research and upon that I did not find anything the sales rep mentioned about my car on THIER website as a staged kit like they have for MANY other cars.
Wondering why they dont was my question, sorry if that wasn't how I asked it. That's what I meant.
So in conclusion, Thank you...for not taking this as a personal attack on anyone, sorry if anyone feels that way let's just move forward please. I'm here to understand that if I am going to spend 10-15 grand on a setup it better dam be good. Agreed? And do what I want. That my goal here.
Thanks for your reply.
If you want to know anything about UMI and the products they make, Ramey who replied is the man to talk to. He is an engineer for them and he races their cars all over the place. you will not find a nicer guy than him and he will answer any questions you have.
If you want to know anything about UMI and the products they make, Ramey who replied is the man to talk to. He is an engineer for them and he races their cars all over the place. you will not find a nicer guy than him and he will answer any questions you have.
Bar Angle is a racer jargen for the angle of a lateral control arm. The rear Lower Control Arm (A.K.A. LCA's) are the two suspension components that connect the rear end housing to the chassis. In stock form, the attachment points are fixed on both the chassis and the rear housing. several manufacturers make brackets that bolt to the rear housing and allows for different mounting points, thus changing the angle of the LCA relative to a fixed point, such as the frame rail. The angle of the LCA affects the Anti-squat property of the rear end.
All of these changes are done to increase, or sometimes decrease, the grip level and angle of the rear tires. Extreme bar angle can be seen on dirt super late models. the rear end actually steers the car though the corners. Watch a couple videos of the rear suspension on those cars in action, and it might help you visualize what is happening to the rear suspension in a very dramatic fashion. Those cars are wild.
Scooter, the decoupled torque arm appears to be similar to a three link and lift bar setup that circle track dirt modifieds like to run. It would be interesting to try.
Austin has a video of his decoupled TA setup somewhere.
If you want to get some ideas then search for old posts by a guy named vetruck and slicktrackgod. Same guy. Got banned. Really smart but couldn't cope in conversation with people. I think he was a crew chief for a semi-pro circle track team or something like that. Anyway, he gives some advice how to make the car work well while keeping things fairly simple.
03-06-2021, 09:27 AM
