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I'm looking for any suggestions, hints, tips, tools, things to have on hand, good sets of instructions, anything that will help for doing a k-member install in a driveway. If it matters it's a UMI k-member.
I haven't quite decided how I'm holding the engine up during the swap and I'm wondering how many hours to expect (one person, I have someone that has offered to come by and help if we can get our schedules lined up, the driveway has a decent slope to it also which will prevent me from doing some things).
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; 11-16-2020 at 03:08 AM.
Going to want the car high like giraffe pu$$y for that job. At least some 6 ton jack stands - all 4 up. Would be best if it wasn't sloped but..... be SAFE!
If you have any inclination to pull the oil pan - like for cleaning or re-sealing or to change the pump (the Melling shark tooth pumps are nice), etc - now is absolutely the time.
You will NEED the OTC 7045B spring compressor set. The springs will have to be removed safely and re-installation is a B1TCH even with the compressor. Pry bars, red hot cursing, etc.
Spreader bar to hold up the engine. I used a harbor freight unit - works fine for this application.
Other than that - just unbolt and discard the old one, and bolt in the new one. Mine fit perfectly.
Everything he said. I just got done with mine. I used an Evercraft compressor from napa. I put some heavy straps over exhaust primaries and suspended it with an engine hoist. Puttin springs in was the worst part. I did the whole front end. Umi stuff fit great.
Done it a bunch of times. Easy to do, just takes time dealing with all the bits and bobbles.
The secret sauce is to use cribbing. Car on jack stands, and cribbing under the engine and trans. Hook up an engine hoist on the top side to do minor height adjustments when needed. Cribbing is going to take all the engine/trans weight unless you're doing little adjustments with the hoist. Letting the engine droop about an inch will make the whole job a lot easier.
Strip down the k-member and then drop it out (6 bolts). Install the new one to motor mounts first, then attach it to frame.
Do yourself a favor and ditch the stock springs forever. Install a set of lowering springs and never mess with another spring compressor again.
Going to want the car high like giraffe pu$$y for that job. At least some 6 ton jack stands - all 4 up.
Why is height an issue? It seems like the K-member isn't that tall, maybe 10-12"
Are you saying I need the back of the car up in the air for some reason?
Would be best if it wasn't sloped but..... be SAFE!
The engine has no top end right now, the car isn't going anywhere
You will NEED the OTC 7045B spring compressor set. The springs will have to be removed safely and re-installation is a B1TCH even with the compressor. Pry bars, red hot cursing, etc
I've done dozens of spring swaps on these cars and have never used a spring compressor, is there some reason this is different with the k-member swap? I actually own that OTC compressor (and 2 others), but I've never used it on an f-body.
Spreader bar to hold up the engine. I used a harbor freight unit - works fine for this application.
What's a spreader bar?
Originally Posted by 2slow5.0
I used an Evercraft compressor from napa. I put some heavy straps over exhaust primaries and suspended it with an engine hoist. Puttin springs in was the worst part.
I'm really curious what's with the spring compressor.
I have an engine hoist but I don't think I have room to use it and the driveway is a bit steep to use it.
My "plan" was to put a 2x4 or a piece of pipe or something across the strut towers and use a ratchet strap or 2 to pull up on the engine.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Done it a bunch of times. Easy to do, just takes time dealing with all the bits and bobbles.
The secret sauce is to use cribbing. Car on jack stands, and cribbing under the engine and trans. Hook up an engine hoist on the top side to do minor height adjustments when needed. Cribbing is going to take all the engine/trans weight unless you're doing little adjustments with the hoist. Letting the engine droop about an inch will make the whole job a lot easier.
I was going to try to avoid cribbing and an engine hoist mostly to keep them out of the way under the car and I'm not sure I could safely use a hoist where the car sits.
I figured letting the engine hang down just a hair might make it easier to line up bolt holes and motor mounts. I have a set of Moroso solid mounts that I'll probably put in while I'm there.
Strip down the k-member and then drop it out (6 bolts). Install the new one to motor mounts first, then attach it to frame.
I can do that
Do yourself a favor and ditch the stock springs forever. Install a set of lowering springs and never mess with another spring compressor again.
The car sits like a 4x4 right now with stock springs, it's not going back to that. I haven't decided what I'm putting back in yet, but I have a few sets of cut stock springs that I was happy with, a new and a used Eibach Pro kit, and a Koni Spring kit. I'm also planning some Koni Yellows that I have sitting around, 1" taller ball joints and possibly fabbing up some weight jacks to replace UMI's top spring pocket.
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; 10-27-2020 at 02:17 AM.
The spring cup on the UMI control arms is quite deep. I installed a pro kit when swapping. Spings were stiff enough that it stripped the threads on the first compressor I used. Admittedly it was pretty wore out to begin. Gotta make sure your compressor and spring are indexed just right or the spring wont settle in tbe pocket of the control arm.
I bent new lines for mine that kept them mostly hidden. Most i think just tweak the factory ones to work though.
The higher the car is the easier it is to work around
Personally I like the stock height so I fought the factory springs back in there. Can be done although it seems nearly impossible at first. Lowered Third Gens with huge modern wheels look stupid. Not period at all. Personal preference I suppose.
The brake lines weren't and issue for me. Just find all the tabs that hold them to the stock K member before you drop it out. I was able to fkex them out of the way to get the old member out and then used some safety wire to hold the lines down to the new member.
I would put the car on some good jack stands, as suggested 6 ton, strip the suspension off and then you can use an engine hoist to hold the engine in place (up in the air) while you drop the crossmember down. If you use a jack under the crossmember you can lower it just a bit to get to the fasteners that hold the brake line to the chassis, then drop it down the rest of the way.
Those things are pretty cool, they're intended to hold the engine up while you mess with the trans on a FWD car, but would be perfect for this kind of thing. I may grab one if I can't get the 2x4/rachet strap thing to work well. If I was doing this inside I'd definitely get one, but since I'm outside and will likely take a few days I want things as low profile as possible so could at least sort of close the hood.
Originally Posted by 2slow5.0
The spring cup on the UMI control arms is quite deep. I installed a pro kit when swapping. Spings were stiff enough that it stripped the threads on the first compressor I used. Admittedly it was pretty wore out to begin. Gotta make sure your compressor and spring are indexed just right or the spring wont settle in tbe pocket of the control arm.
I guess I'll see... thinking about this I do remember that I did use a spring compressor the very first time I messed with the front suspension on one of these (back in '91, argh), a buddy of mine that was helping me back then was a dealer mechanic and borrowed the dealer tool for it, but we came to the conclusion that it was so dangerous (well, we were young and stupid and added a case of beer, a couple of friends and tossing the compressed spring around the front yard to the equation) that since I've aways put a hefty jack under the spring pocket and just used that to guide the springs up or down.
Thinking a little more about this, I may not have a choice. My engine doesn't have any cylinder heads, intake, headers... on it right now so the front end of the car may be too light to use the weight of the car to compress the springs...
Originally Posted by scooter
I would put the car on some good jack stands, as suggested 6 ton, strip the suspension off and then you can use an engine hoist to hold the engine in place (up in the air) while you drop the crossmember down. If you use a jack under the crossmember you can lower it just a bit to get to the fasteners that hold the brake line to the chassis, then drop it down the rest of the way.
I guess I'll put it on the 6 ton stands set kind of low, that will put the front end of the car up pretty high anyway unless someone shows/tells me that I'll really need more room than that. I'm a big boy and typically need a little more room than most people to work under a car, but I'm having a hard time imagining why anyone would need more than that, and having a Cummins dodge on 37's I'm quite familiar with "if you get it up a little too high it becomes as big a PITA as if it's too low, unless you have a lift and can work standing up..."
Personally I like the stock height so I fought the factory springs back in there. Can be done although it seems nearly impossible at first. Lowered Third Gens with huge modern wheels look stupid. Not period at all. Personal preference I suppose.
I agree with you WRT to tire sizes, you really have to get pretty deep into the 2000's before cars started to get proportioned that they looked good with 18's and bigger wheels/tires. My SHO looks right on the factory 19's and 20's (I said I'd never own a wheel that big), but when you park it next to an SUV you realize it's bigger than most SUV's, and even taller, it's differently proportioned than an '80's car. The reason that I have a 17/18 staggered combination on my car is simply that it's next to impossible to get a good, performance handling tire in 15 or 16 for the front of these cars, and I like wider than stock sizes on them and they're not available in 16's almost at all without getting into the special application race tires which are totally inappropriate for street use. I ended up getting 17x9 and 18x10.5 ZO6 wheels with high performance 265/40-17 and 305/30-18 tires for less than I could replace the tires that were on the car at the time, so that's what's on it right now.
As far as ride height, I'm a race car/hot rod guy, the more in the weeds it is the better it is. For me, the pinnacle of the muscle car look was the early 70's Trans-Am race cars (growing up my neighbor had a '69 Mustang with a '70 nose on it that was an original Trans-Am race car, I loved that car)- lowered to the ground and with fat 15" tires on it.
I honestly feel that people that "like" the stock ride height don't really remember how high that really was. My TA is on 33y/o factory springs (they still have tags on them) that have not sagged as much as most and it looks positively like a 4x4 (the fender gaps are bigger above the tires than in front/behind, and that's a 26.5" tall rear tire in the pic, 1" bigger than stock), and this is lower than they were from the factory, ESPECIALLY, the early/mid 3rd gen cars, the ones from the late 80s-92 sat lower than the earlier ones. My '87 TA at close to stock ride height.
Originally Posted by BigDogBob
Got a set of springs you'd recommend that don't lower the car too much?
Eibach Pro kit springs. They make the car look like this is how they should have done it from the factory, but not like the car has been lowered. I've actually heard of some people complaining that they raised their car that had really badly sagged factory springs but installed correctly they should appear to be about 1-1.5" lower than the picture of my car with factory springs. Nothing rubs, nothing hits funny over any reasonable bump... Eibach Sportlines put the car about another 1/2"-1" lower than that, which put the car really solidly in the "it's been lowered" springs. They're actually softer than the Pro springs even though they're shorter and you may get some rubbing/bottoming on really rough roads or with some weight in the back (someone in the back seat). The Moog factory replacement springs are really just generic springs that are close to the factory springs. As they come out of the box they sit slightly higher than factory. There are actually fairly few real spring companies out there and most of the name brands are made by one or 2 companies and reboxed, the ebay ones are mostly junk and tend to sag or break quickly.
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; 10-27-2020 at 02:58 PM.
I keep running across people saying that the back needs to be lifted to do this, is that true? I wasn't planning on jacking or cribbing the rear tires at all.
I keep running across people saying that the back needs to be lifted to do this, is that true? I wasn't planning on jacking or cribbing the rear tires at all.
Does the steering linkage need to be removed?
Not jacking the rear may make the front sit up really high in the front, to the point where you have to reach up to do stuff, you might want to just to keep it in the area where you're comfortable working.
Shouldn't have to touch steering, just remove sway bar end links
I set tbe rear wheels up on wheel ramps. I suppose you dont have to, i did a ton of work with it in the air though. Its probly safer with the car in the air and level too. Less chance of it moving on ya.
I forgot to mention earlier that its real squeeze getting the member in if you have long tubes. I actually scuffed mine a fair bit. But lots more room when done.
Got a set of springs you'd recommend that don't lower the car too much?
I didn't need a spring compressor with the Hotchkis or the Suspension Techniques springs. Even easier with weight jacks. Front springs just need some encouragement with a sizable dead blow hammer to fully seat in the pocket as the a-arm is being raised. Rear springs need a little muscle to set in place. Weenies can't do it but you don't have to be a brute either.
I've used a crow bar on the front springs but you better have a big respect for stored energy and not get that bar pinched. Bad things happen if it gets pinched by a coil when the spring drops in the pocket.
I set tbe rear wheels up on wheel ramps. I suppose you dont have to, i did a ton of work with it in the air though. Its probly safer with the car in the air and level too. Less chance of it moving on ya.
I forgot to mention earlier that its real squeeze getting the member in if you have long tubes. I actually scuffed mine a fair bit. But lots more room when done.
I've always loved that blue on 3rd gens, but I've never seen it on a 90's 'bird... that's hot.
I currently have the passenger side head, intake, header and exhaust off, the driver's side is still on, so I figure now is a good time for the swap, half the **** that might get in the way is out of the car...
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
I didn't need a spring compressor with the Hotchkis or the Suspension Techniques springs. Even easier with weight jacks. Front springs just need some encouragement with a sizable dead blow hammer to fully seat in the pocket as the a-arm is being raised. Rear springs need a little muscle to set in place. Weenies can't do it but you don't have to be a brute either
Generally, rear springs are cake... jack the car and let the rear hang, push them out. It got a little harder with a Moser 9" in there since they have much taller spring cups, but I'm a 6'4" 275# powerlifter that benches over 400#. They still come out easy, just grab one of the lower coils and push up till the pigtail is clear of the pocket.
I've used a crow bar on the front springs but you better have a big respect for stored energy and not get that bar pinched. Bad things happen if it gets pinched by a coil when the spring drops in the pocket.
I think that part of the deal with front springs is that everyone insists on breaking the balljoint and lowering that end. I usually pull the pivot bolts and go the other way. Most shorter springs are loose by the time the arm is all the way down this way, and with taller springs if you have to pry them out of the pocket they have nowhere to go but up against the inner body/fender, no flying out. Putting them back in the lowest part of the spring, the end of the coil up on the inside, the lowest part of the control arm hanging down, so with most short springs you can just set them in and start jacking. With reinstalling taller springs I've aways disconnected the top of the strut, put the spring in the pocket, the control arm, and a big shop jack with a big jack head under the spring pocket of the control arm with everything lined up. Start jacking and the top of the strut goes back in first, at which point you have the spring correctly seated in its pocket with no prying or other screwing around. Like this, there's a little more monkey motion on the control arm pivot side and the bushings can stick even if greased making it a little harder to line things up but I've found the combination of a tapered punch (to line up the holes), a flat nail pulling pry bar and sometimes a bottle jack allows you to get them lined up quickly. The factory bolts have tapered ends on them anyway so you just have to get them started in the hole and then take an impact driver and drive them in, they'll pull themselves through the sleeve and line things up as they go.
So I'm going to try something a little different- Back in the day I posted A LOT of pictures here, some descriptions and we had a little bit of discussion about things. After a while I got tired of posting the pics, it took a lot of time and it seemed like no matter what you did they disappeared or something happened. Instead I just grabbed my camera, shot a few video clips and put them together. So far its pretty awful, but it will get better if I do more of it, and I'll keep trying as long as I get some traffic and people make some noise. So here it is, Like, Subscribe, Comment, Share and all that:
I just removed mine this weekend with the help of an engine support bar and the expensive otc spring compressor and everything went perfectly. I did have to bend and stretch the drivers front brakeline to get it around control arm mount but bent it back the way it was after finished with no problems. I do have a question for you guys. Is it possible to get the k member crooked upon installation? I assumed the 2 alignment pins and bolt holes would line it up the way it was before but It looks shifted more to one side. I noticed this after I had everything put back and bolted down of course.
I just removed mine this weekend with the help of an engine support bar and the expensive otc spring compressor and everything went perfectly. I did have to bend and stretch the drivers front brakeline to get it around control arm mount but bent it back the way it was after finished with no problems. I do have a question for you guys. Is it possible to get the k member crooked upon installation? I assumed the 2 alignment pins and bolt holes would line it up the way it was before but It looks shifted more to one side. I noticed this after I had everything put back and bolted down of course.
The factory crossmember can move a little on the alignment pins, but not more than, maybe, an 8 to a quarter inch? Aftermarket could potentially move a lot though
I believe you yourself can fix the title. Just do an EDIT. It allows the title to be edited also.
I read that and was like, "don't you think I tried that already???" but I looked again, it doesn't come up with "edit" but if you click on advanced it lets you change it. Thanks! 🙃
I just removed mine this weekend with the help of an engine support bar and the expensive otc spring compressor and everything went perfectly. I did have to bend and stretch the drivers front brakeline to get it around control arm mount but bent it back the way it was after finished with no problems. I do have a question for you guys. Is it possible to get the k member crooked upon installation? I assumed the 2 alignment pins and bolt holes would line it up the way it was before but It looks shifted more to one side. I noticed this after I had everything put back and bolted down of course.
Originally Posted by scooter
The factory crossmember can move a little on the alignment pins, but not more than, maybe, an 8 to a quarter inch? Aftermarket could potentially move a lot though
Since my motor mounts wouldn't line up, I tried it- I put washers under the bolt heads covered in grease, and once you tighten them to the point where they're flush with the surface but not tight the alignment pins hold it dead on, there is no sliding it around at all.
I will watch the videos later, but I also subscribed to your channel. what video editing program you use?
Thanks for the sub!
Right now the videos are awful, but they'll get better if I do them more. Heck, last night I got footage of blowing out my frame rails and it "snowing" little bits of blue shop towels everywhere. I had a mouse destroy a whole roll of the things and have been wondering where they went/where the nest is going to be. I found it 🤬🤬🤬
For now I decided to try Olive. I'm not sure how long that will last. I really like the layout and the workflow, I'm OK with features missing because it's in early development (there are instructions out there on how to "build" most anything if there isn't a button for it yet), but I'm a little frustrated with the glitches from the early development, primarily the ones that have affected me so far- I've only had the screen capture work once, the rest of the time it's either not working or I can't figure out where the file is going, some really wonky behavior when you try to edit text, the cut and paste between projects doesn't work, and settings don't "stick" you have to re-enter them in places. If I don't run into other problems I'll stick with it. If I do I'll probably try Stopcut next.
Well thats good news as I dont want to take apart again. I cant stress enough to get the good expensive spring compressor. Ive used those cheap ones and had the arms slip. Its worth its price by not having to go to er lol.
Well thats good news as I dont want to take apart again. I cant stress enough to get the good expensive spring compressor. Ive used those cheap ones and had the arms slip. Its worth its price by not having to go to er lol.
I would guess that I've done springs a dozen or more times on these cars and so far I've never used a spring compressor. We'll see how this one goes since half the engine is taken apart so I don't have as much weight over the front springs to compress them. I do own 2 different spring compressors that I like if I need them.
So I feel like a bit of a putz with this question because everyone is talking about supporting the motor and spring compressors and I've done all that hard stuff. Engine and suspension is out of the car... I have an extremely basic question that was half covered in this thread and I'm sorry if it was covered in the attached videos I didn't watch them yet.
The 6 bolts that hold the stock engine cradle, what are they bolted into... Meaning is it okay to attach a big air impact and just hammer away, are there nuts I need to hold, the body is threaded or whatever they are attached to weak? I really hadn't planned to pull this thing but since the engine is out and the suspension is apart it sort of seems silly not to replace it.
Follow up questions, looking at UMI site I couldn't tell if there were provisions to attach the brake lines to the K-member or if this is a zip-tie deal. Finally I saw one post about alignment of the new K-member, is that much of an issue?
So I feel like a bit of a putz with this question because everyone is talking about supporting the motor and spring compressors and I've done all that hard stuff. Engine and suspension is out of the car... I have an extremely basic question that was half covered in this thread and I'm sorry if it was covered in the attached videos I didn't watch them yet
I have much more video that has some of this, but it hasn't been edited and uploaded yet because of family and other issues taking up my time. They'll go up eventually, and the video quality will get better eventually also, the footage I have is better then I have posted 😉
The 6 bolts that hold the stock engine cradle, what are they bolted into... Meaning is it okay to attach a big air impact and just hammer away, are there nuts I need to hold, the body is threaded or whatever they are attached to weak? I really hadn't planned to pull this thing but since the engine is out and the suspension is apart it sort of seems silly not to replace it.
There are threaded reinforcement plates welded the inside of the subframe rails, kind of like where the trans cross member bolts mount. Can you use an impact without damaging them... I don't know, I've used an impact on the cross-member bolts dozens of times without any issues, but they are also a common thing to find stripped on these cars, so I would say if you're one of those monkeys that manages to break everything then don't do it, but otherwise you'll be fine. I pulled mine with an impact gun but put it back with a rachet. If in doubt, I was actually surprised that the bolts, which I'm sure have been there since '87 were not that tight, it's only 6 bolts- doing it a rachet by hand is not a big deal.
Follow up questions, looking at UMI site I couldn't tell if there were provisions to attach the brake lines to the K-member or if this is a zip-tie deal. Finally, I saw one post about the alignment of the new K-member, is that much of an issue?
Mine has been sitting in a box for a while, so I can't vouch that they haven't changed things recently, but the instructions specify using zip ties, there are no mounts for the brake lines.
If the captured nuts in the chassis are going to rip out, they will do so whether you use an air hammer or not. That said, do not tighten them with one. I've never had one of those nuts fail, but I have had a bolt break off in one.
Thanks for the replies... Today I went out and just removed one stock K-member bolt by hand to see if it was an issue and I can confirm it's not. As least on my 1987 IROC-Z,
Okay so the bolts seem easy and the brake lines sound like a zip-tie deal. Since no one has really noted alignment being an issue on the new K-members I'm going to assume it's easy to install correctly.
This, "quick" pull the engine for a oil pan replacement is snowballing but that's okay working in the garage is my version sticking my head in sand when all the crazy stuff is going on in the world around me..
I can tell you that there is just enough wiggle room on the factory K member to make a difference, I didn't pay attention when bolting it up and noticed the paint lines on the back attachments didn't line up after I was done putting everything back together. Someone on here said it wasn't a big deal and the most it would be off is 1/4". Well I took it for a drive and the passenger wheel rubbed when turning on the front inner fender bolts, which it didn't do prior to me removing K member. I just loosened the 6 bolts slightly and took a big pry bar and aligned it so the paint marks matched back up and snugged it down. I will have to wait until spring though to see if it rubs I'm guessing it wont anymore since its back the way it was originally. Yes it can be only about a 1/4" off at the most at the rear attachment point, but that gets multiplied as you extend outward with the control arms, so possibly 1/2" or so off at the wheel. Anyways just would be good idea for anyone removing K member to scribe a line before removing just to make sure it's back where it came from.
Thinking about what your saying I'm wondering about taking some very detailed measurements for the pivot bolts on the A-arms. Since I will be using a UMI K-member I don't expect I can use the paint marks in the same way you did on your build. I will need to think about this a little.
The car will get aligned after everything but still I don't want make an issue if I can avoid it in the first place.
10-26-2020, 03:27 PM
Does anyone else but me think it may be time to revoke the General's season pass to the zoo ? 
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