When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
This winter I swapped out my old UMI tubular control arms for new versions with turn stops and they use rod end sway bar end links. I also had to remove my weight jacks etc to do the control arms. I put it all back together and somehow of course my alignment got all screwy lol. I didn’t touch my steering but apparently the Aarms have geometry improvements according to the instructions but it could have been me also not getting the ride height back exactly or even close lol. I also moved my hot part CC plates bc I was running spacers under them and I removed those but put it back as close as I could.
So I’ve had some alignment tools for a few years that I never got to use since I didn’t have a flat garage or driveway. But I got a new house a year ago which has a garage and a somewhat flat floor. So I started doing my own alignment and trying to figure it out.
I have a fastrax caster/camber tool with tow adapter that I’ve had for years. I also picked up some cheap eBay turn tables for the front wheels. The other night I tried to use the turn tables for the first time and had a heck of a time but they seemed to work. I will tell you that toe changes are a breeze on the turn tables lol. My issue with the turn tables was repeatability and side to side equality. If I turn the wheel to get 15* on the driver side on the pass side it might be 10* or if I turn the driver wheel to 20* I might get 15* on the driver side. But if I move the wheel by hand on the driver side and try to keep the rotating plate centered I can get the sides closer.
I was testing caster and followed the instructions by fastrax and it seemed to have my specs pretty much on mark. I was getting 4* driver and 4.5* passenger. I tried to set camber to .25* but I keep getting different readings on the driver side and I can’t push it toward the motor anymore without hitting the master cylinder.
I believe I was able to get toe in to 3/32 but I do have a bit of slop in the steering which I feel like these cars just have normally (side to side). My suspension is basically new and I change things before I put any real miles on the car lol. New moog inner and outer tie rods, UMI tie rod adjusters, new center link, stock steering box adjusted with the astrovan steering upgrade. When I say slop I mean the steering wheel moves per little movement in the wheel but it’s pretty easy to play the wheel side to side like 1/4” which is very easy to affect the toe in/out measurement.
Anyways, just looking for tips on doing my own alignments and getting the car dialed in. Is there a specific way to use the turn tables or is it not normal for the wheels to turn the exact same degrees from each side.
Any tips?
Had to use my truck with a hand winch to pull the car up onto the turn tables. Sketch ***** but it worked lol. I’m used to the string method for setting tow Driver side Pass side
Wow, thats way more elaborate than my method! I use a tape measure and/or a board and spray paint for toe, and a cheap angle meter for camber and caster. Have had pretty good results but it takes a lot of driving back and forth and re-measuring.
Ackerman will cause the inside tire/wheel to turn more then the outside tire/wheel.
You should use a board the same thickness as the turntables under each of the rear tires. This is to level the car front to back.
RBob.
P.S. it is toe, not tow
Yea I knew that, but wasn't sure it could cause the wheels to kinda bind on the turntables. Figured the plates would just move pretty freely.
Your saying I need to raise the rear of the vehicle the same height? Whys that? Does that affect the Caster/camber readings?
Also the tow vs toe is due to autocorrect as I posted this from my phone. Gotta keep you guys on your tows haha jk.I guess I could fabricate something to lift the rear tires the 2" as well since the plates are that thickness I believe.
Wow, thats way more elaborate than my method! I use a tape measure and/or a board and spray paint for toe, and a cheap angle meter for camber and caster. Have had pretty good results but it takes a lot of driving back and forth and re-measuring.
haha well you know... gotta work smarter not harder lol.
The gauge seems to work well, my aftermarket wheels don't let me attach it to the wheel so I used bungies to keep it locked onto to the wheel. My biggest thing is the getting repeatable results to confirm my changes. Slop in the steering on these things when the wheel set to straight is quite a bit which doesn't help toe measurements. I like the string method for the toe in bc its easy to set tow per side to make sure it tracks straight. The plates on the wheels just looks at total toe which gets you the number but it could mean that one wheel is turned in more than another.
Yea I knew that, but wasn't sure it could cause the wheels to kinda bind on the turntables. Figured the plates would just move pretty freely.
There shouldn't be any binding on the turntables. Along with being able to spin, do the turntables also allow left/right & fore/aft movement? If so should be good to go.
Your saying I need to raise the rear of the vehicle the same height? Whys that? Does that affect the Caster/camber readings?
It affects everything as it promotes a weight shift to the rear of the car.
Also the tow vs toe is due to autocorrect as I posted this from my phone. Gotta keep you guys on your tows haha jk.I guess I could fabricate something to lift the rear tires the 2" as well since the plates are that thickness I believe.
There shouldn't be any binding on the turntables. Along with being able to spin, do the turntables also allow left/right & fore/aft movement? If so should be good to go.
It affects everything as it promotes a weight shift to the rear of the car.
Good 'ole auto-correct...
RBob.
yes the tables spin and have about 2.5” of movement in all directions. Hard to say what it’s doing but the wheels would turn fine and pivot around during the arc but returning the wheel back to straight the wheels and round tables would not be centered on the turn table bottom plate. Like the car would have shifted 1/2” or some amount to one side so the plates and wheels might be at zero or a few degrees off but the whole car slid to one side. I found that tugging on the wheel and helping it rotate a bit helped get the car back kinda like it would bind as the wheel angle rolled over the plate.
good to know about having the front and rear aligned. Guess illl have to build something to get the rear wheels up too. My front does have a 1.5” rake to it lol.
I actually just swapped on some Koni yellow front struts tonight and hacked 2” off the front springs in my home made weight jacks and used some cut springs in the rear with my rear weight jacks. I dropped the car 1” front and rear so I’m sitting at 27.5” front and 29” rear (I have 18” rims and meaty DR’s on the rear so I can’t lower it that much as I sliced the rear tires on the quarters a year or so ago. Car looks better but looks like I need to redo the alignment again haha.
I took the front and rear springs out and cut them so I could lower the car more and I was swapping in some new Koni yellows up front. Put it all back together Except I used 175lb rear springs and the same 850lb fronts that are cut about 2”-2.5” so I went from 9.5” free height to 7-7.5”. Put the car back on the ground and the car slammed to the ground bc I only adjusted the front jacks alittle while they were in the spring pockets and the car was unloaded. Good news is I could go pretty low with how they are now. I adjusted the front jacks and got the car up where I wanted. dropped the car 1-1.25” total front and back so I’m at 29” rear and 27.5” front. Since I adjusted the ride height I figured I needed to go through the alignment again and this is when things got weird.
This time I rolled the rear tires up 1.5-2” to match the 2” thickness of the turn tables. Then I checked toe and it was wayyyy off , looked something like +1/4” tow out and all I did was lower the car 1”. Then I checked camber and it was off as well on the driver side. Then I checked caster and I was at like -2.5-3* on both sides. I adjusted both sides and got them to -4* driver and -4.5* passenger and got camber to -0.25* then I had to go back and do toe and got it to 1/16-3/32 toe in.
im very shocked by the caster since it was reading perfect last time unless the reading was off because I didn’t have the rear jacked up the 2” to match the front. You guys think that could have caused it? I’m not sure but I checked it like 5 times and kept getting the 2.5-3* no matter what. I thought since you zero the gauge out with the wheel turned in at the backside that it wouldn’t matter if the front was higher but maybe not. I hope it’s all good now.
Swapping the struts and changing the ride height will affect the alignment.
The next test drive will let you know.
RBob.
Just seemed like a lot to loose 2* of caster with lowering the car 1". Do you think having the front end elevated 2" could have affected the Caster degrees as well? I hope I get to drive the car soon, not many places to go these days lol.
Just seemed like a lot to loose 2* of caster with lowering the car 1". Do you think having the front end elevated 2" could have affected the Caster degrees as well? I hope I get to drive the car soon, not many places to go these days lol.
Yes. When your working with angles and you add in other angles, it will change things
Finnally Took the car out yesterday and car drove pretty good. Barely a light pull to the right of any. I decided to check the the alignment tonight. My camber on the pass side was at -.75* which is more than I set it to. Driver said was good at -.25*, so I adjusted the pass side to -.25* and called it good.
next I checked was toe and it was 1/4” toe in. I adjusted the driver side and got it to 1/16” toe in.
I decided to check camber on my rear wheels I mean what the heck right. I got -.25* camber on the driver rear and -.5* on the pass rear wheel.
04-23-2020, 09:46 PM
