AssaulT/A

So my driver's side wheel is off center in the wheel well, specifically, it's pushed forwards farther than the passenger wheel. I noticed this yesterday when I installed wider wheels/tires, because the drivers side wheel (on the front side) rubs the fender a little when turning right far enough. I attribute this to an accident I had about a year and a half ago, which involved the driver's side wheel impacting a curb. My question is, are there some measurements I can take to help determine what the problem is?

I plan to get up under the car this afternoon and look for anything obviously broken, but i suspect it isn't that.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What are the alignment specs? (seeing as how, the caster setting DIRECTLY moves the wheel front-to-rear)

AssaulT/A

That's an excellent question! Unfortunately I lost the alignment sheet from the last time it was aligned (a year and a half ago, after said incident with the curb). I'm planning on getting it checked as soon as I have enough time. Hopefully that's all it is. I did know that caster moved the wheel back and forwards, but is there enough adjustment that it could be the sole cause of the issue? I guess I assumed that it was something else. Might the caster be off so as to exacerbate the problem with something being bent?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Only way to know is to find out. Not much sense in guessing.

Gumby

id guess, you smacked a curb and tweaked something, and when it was aligned, all he did was get it into spec, wasn't looking at the tire spacing. and you may not be able to correct it with out seeing a frame shop if not obvious.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Or, maybe the curb thing is a red herring, and he just needs an alignment.

Start with the basics, move into the more complex stuff ONLY after the simple things are under control.

AssaulT/A

So I'm off work tomorrow, which I did not expect but am thankful for, so I'm hoping to take the car in to the best suspension/alignment shop in the area and hopefully get a handle on what's going on.

Just for kicks, I did a little measuring with my dad and passenger side is just under 101 inches from front wheel center to rear wheel center. Driver side is over 101 inches from wheel center to wheel center, IIRC

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

More positive caster moves the wheel forward, correct?

AssaulT/A

.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Positive caster moves the wheel rearward.

Negative camber tilts the top of the wheel inward.

AssaulT/A

Okay well the shop (appointment only) is booked until monday, so that's a bummer. I'm gonna jack the car up today, which I didn't do yesterday, and see what there is to see. I'll report back with anything I find.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Hmm.. On our cars though it would be better though to have the wheels further forward in the wheel wall, although positive caster is better for handling stability. Thanks

AssaulT/A

So I drove to a body shop and explained my situation, and the old wise guy there lol told me that he seriously doubts that my frame is bent. So i went off to a suspension shop, who told me that my camber and toe were within stock specs (yes i know, they won't align it to anything but stock specs) but they said that caster isn't adjustable. I promptly drove to another alignment shop, who said the same thing. When I told them how to do it, they said no, that's not right. While they had it on the lift they looked over the underside (I did not) and they said that nothing was visibly broken or bent, although they confirmed that the driver tire is about an inch too far forwards. They also were unable to offer an explanation of why only the driver tire was rubbing but not the passenger tire,

The only solution they offered was to trim/cut the inner fender liner where it contacts the tire. Is this a viable solution? the affected area is not too big, only happening at about half lock and more.

I also intend to see if adjusting the caster myself can provide a solution. Any ideas/solutions that you all can provide are also welcome.

Gumby

I doubt frame would be bent to any big noticeable degree, but a small tweak here and there can make an inch difference.

in school we trained on the C.L.A.S.S. cal laser aligment straightening system, was devloped to straighten motorcycle frames from the factory for racing. stock it was normal for the frame to be 1/4in off in any direction.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I would check to see if your a-arm, spindle, or mounting points are bent.. Are the strut mounts stock? What were the specs of your caster (they should give you a printout of your specs on a piece of paper). BTW Camber should be around -0.5*, and toe should be toe-in (3/32) (which is total toe 0.09).

Cutting the fender liner is just a band aid fix for some other problem, I wouldn't do it.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Since the fender is nothing but a sheet of tin-foil trim half-a$$ stuck to THE CAR proper, I wouldn't go aligning THE CAR to that. That'd be about like framing a house so that the curtains hang evenly on each side of the window.

Caster is every bit as adjustable as camber on these cars. Ideal alignment specs for typical street use are 4 - 4½° positive caster, with as much as ½° more on the right depending on how high the crown is on the roads in your area; ½ - 1° negative camber, again with possibly a slight bit more on the right; and about .050" of toe IN.

Find somebody who will align it EXACTLY LIKE THAT; no "stock specs", no "book", no "we can't guarantee it", none of that mealy-mouth weasel-word bull droppings. Then align your fenders to THE CAR, instead of the other way round. Make the doors fit to the quarter panels properly FIRST; then make the fenders fit to the doors properly, and the hood fit to the fenders. You might be surprised how much better a car looks when the parts are all put on square with nice straight even gaps all the way around.

I see you say you're in Central AR... I still have some property up around Shirley I haven't seen since about 2000 or so.

AssaulT/A

Strut mounts are stock. I have no idea what my caster is set at, neither of the shops would tell me/fix it.

Gumby

need to find a tuner shop, someone who works on other then daily drivers.

most shops will only go by the book or what the machine tells them, mostly to not get sued and allot of them are not SASE trained. They just took a 4hr class to run the machines.

AssaulT/A

Gumby, yeah that's the problem. I have not yet been able to find a place anywhere near me that will actually do what the customer wants, rather than what there computer says.

Here's a thought, have any of you all done your own alignments with success? Not only do I like the idea of working on my own car (or rather, not letting someone else work on my car) but being that there are still several suspension modifications I plan to do, and also accounting for normal wear and tear, it seems like it has the potential to pay for itself. Am I crazy?

Gumby

yea I did my own toe in/toe out alignment last summer when I replaced allot of the front end parts, easy once you have good places to measure from.

I used some extruded aluminum square section, and my rotors were still new and straight, clamped onto them to measure. Its such a slight ammount you need to be able to measure right.

I didn't just clip two tapes into it n pull across, I taped down the tape on the 1in mark of both so it can't move, the slack in the end clip of a tape can goof with ya. Other end of tap I just let hang over and use the tapes body housing weight to hold it, making it an easy 1 man job.