88iroc86z

Has anyone put these on their cars and if so can you post a photo of it I would like to see what it looks like on the car along with what the advantage of it is?

redneckjoe

they seem to help reduce wheel hop and improve traction.
i used the founders bolt-ons.

jrhaus76

Any of the aftermarket suspension components will take flex out of the car's suspension compared to the OE stuff. It will improve the rigidity of the suspension.

Improve handling
Reduce wheel hop
Improve traction
Increase noise
Increase ride stiffness

The more parts you replace, the more it does the above...

akanitro

iTrader: (2)

I went with the UMI weld on and it fixed e ery problem I had since lowering the vehicle. The suspension angle was correct. The UMI torque arm stopped hitting the floor under the car. The use of the UMI rear lower control arms and panhard made everything feel solid and correct when driving.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

The reason you might need Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets (LCARBs) is if you've lowered your car, and the rear controls arms are now "running downhill". That is: the front end of the LCA was lowered with the car, but the rear end of the LCA is at the same height because the axle didn't move. The LCA running downhill can lead to wheel hop. Putting LCARBs on the rear axle lowers the rear mounting point of the LCA so it is now parallel to the ground (or close to it).

88iroc86z

I lowered with eibach springs awhile ago. I didn't realize that it changed it so much. I will order them and install. Thanks for the help guys!

1stUC

Can I put the brackets on even though my car isn't lowered yet?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Here's a REALLY BAD pic.



Yes you can put them on when ride height is stock.

These cars came from the factory with defective geometry: the LCA is lower at the frame end, than at the axle end, even when the ride height is stock.

The end result is wheel hop. The poor geometry causes the rear end to "squat" when power is applied, which if it's sudden, unloads the tires, which spin, which removes the application of power, which loads the tires again, which applies power, which unloads the tires, which spin, which removes the application of power, .... over and over, about 5 - 7 times a second.

LCARBs FIX that.

Best suspension mod I ever did to my car, except for subframe connectors. The LCAs themselves, Spohn torque arm, and everything else I changed, none of it made as much of an improvement as that one little thing.

Note in the pic, the LCA is angled slightly downward - emphasis on SLIGHTLY - toward the axle; MAYBE ½", after installing the LCARBs. With stock ride height. The LCAs used to be around ½" HIGHER at the axle than at the frame, with MASSIVE wheel hop. (lots of power: a 400 motor w good heads, big roller cam, etc.) The LCARBs completely eliminated the hop.

1stUC

Thanx man I appreciate the info, I'll put mine on 2day

1stUC

I had some issues with getting the bolt holes to line up, I have the relocation brackets from Founders, do y'all know any tricks on getting it on?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Shouldn't be any problems with that.

What exactly did you do?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Um, NO

At factory ride height they were designed to sit close to level. With the back end level or with them slightly higher at the axle you get a little bit of understeer at the rear axle (effectively steering into the turn with the outside rear wheel) allowing for a more stable turn in.

Wheel hop is caused by something broken or loose in your suspension/chassis. I've posted this before, and people have argued with it, but then when looking at the car later we've _always_ found something loose affecting the rear suspension.

The higher the front pivot point of the LCA is compared to the rear does result in more anti-squat, which does cause the torque applied to the rear axle to be converted into a force pushing the axle downward separating the axle from the body, which counters the increased loading from the weight transfer rearward on a launch, but there can be such a thing as too much. For example, the low profile tires that everyone insists on running do not have much sidewall to absorb that force and very little will cause them to hit too hard and bounce. You end up with a car that launches hard and then spins a few feet out of the hole. I experimented with this with my 4th gen years ago (and got some good video of it where I could see what the tires were doing in slow motion) running a T56 and 275/40-17 DRs, and with the bolt in the lowest hole in the bracket I could launch somewhat violently and hook off the line, but by 10-20' out the sidewalls had compressed so much that the tires bounced off the pavement and totally unloaded, going from hooking hard to spinning. The car worked best on radials at the track with the LCA's in the stock location and with sticky tires with them in the second hole.

You can also run out of rear suspension travel (typically shock travel, and this is more likely to happen on a stock height car) where suddenly the rear suspension can't extend anymore and the downward force on the rear tires suddenly disappears, again resulting in tire spin a little ways out.

Yes, people typically love them on their f-bodies (and similar devices on other cars), and in most cases they took out completely dead suspension parts, with worn out bushings, loose bolts... replaced everything, tightened it down and then rave how well they work, and rarely try anything else ever again, unless they're really into racing (drag, autox, rr...) and actually spend time dialing in their combination, and then they rarely keep them in the lowest position. Most people successfully running faster cars end up with their LCAs in the stock bolt holes eventually (or end up with something completely different under their cars)

B4CHawk

Ditching them for ESP legality soon, though.

1stUC

I tried installing them on both holes with a new set of Founders LCA's n I even had a guy from Founders on the phone n it wouldn't line up n e thing I tried didn't work

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What EXACTLY did you do? As in, jacked the car up by the pumpkin, put the frame on stands at such and such place, removed so and so bolts, then this that the other happened so I ... Then, WHAT wouldn't line up with WHAT, WHY? Which way is it off?

Just complaining "it don't work" isn't enough for us out here to guess what went wrong.

1stUC

Lol aight I put the bracket on the cars bracket with a bolt threw the top hole n when I do that I can't get the part that lines up with my Bilstein shock hole to line up r I can put the shock n bracket part on 1st n I can't get the top hole for the relocation bracket to line up with the hole on the rearend

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What gets in the way? How is the rear end supported? I take it you're doing this on just one side at a time; i.e., you left one side of the car completely assembled, and worked on the other to completion, before taking the first side apart?

redneckjoe

maybe a picture would help?

i start all the bolts, then tighten them last. only work on one side at a time.

1stUC

I jack up the car by the rearend then I put it on jack stands on the subframe right inside the end of the LCA

1stUC

I was doing 1 side at a time also, the tech from Founders I spoke with said maybe my factory brackets were bent that's y the holes didn't line up but both sides r exactly the same off when I try 2 install the relocation bracket

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Think for a minute: what limits the rear end's downward travel?

Right!!! the SHOCKS.

So if the rear is just hanging, the springs are gonna push it down as far as they can, and it'll go past the extension limit of the shocks.

Bolt the brackets to the rear, jack the rear back up a coupla inches, put the shock back on.

1stUC

I understand that but what I'm saying is that bracket that's on my rearend that the end of the LCA and the shock mounts 2 is 1 peice all together, even if I disconnect my LCA and the shock the relocation bracket holes don't line up on the rearend bracket

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Help us help you... Please use punctuation.

Try to install the LCARB, and when you get stuck, take a picture, post it. That will help, at least me figure out what is going wrong.

1stUC

I flew out a few days ago, I'm back working n Mexico so it's gonna b a month before I get back home but I will post some when I jump back on it

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

.

SLEEPER 86

I must have talked to someone else at Founders, I just had the same.problem.
I was told that when they do this they start with everything loose and attach the shocks to the lower mounts first. I disconnected the lcas at the rear, nothing. When I disconnected the panhard rod and loosened the bolts form the rear to the lcarbs, bingo! The shock holes lined right up with the lcarbs. Lower shock bolts first, then the lower control arms, and finally the panhard rod is the way I got.it to work. Don't tighten anything until its all together. I have an adjustable panhard rod, you may need to bolt it in before the lca bolts if yours isn't adjustable.
Oh, and watch your torque! My torque wrench may be off, I killed a panhard rod to body bolt trying to get to the 89 ft. Lbs Founders recommended, Spohn, where I got the bolts, said 60. Then I stripped the threads out of a nyloc lca nut trying to get to the 68 ft.lb. Factory spec from the Haynes manual! Just got a.new torque wrench tonight. I haven't killed a bolt on this entire car until these two!
If anyone has proper torque specs for the rear suspension, I would sure appreciate them!
Oh,and this stuff goes together TIGHT, so be ready to wrestle.

1stUC

Thanks a bunch I sure will try that when I get home, hopefully it works out for me