Base91

iTrader: (1)

Now that Racecraft won't do the RR version of the drop spindles any more and no-else makes one what can be done? What is required to "home" modify the spindles to handle track use? What material, where and what sort of welding? Anyone with pictures or drawings of what would be needed? Any other practical way to achieve the same result? Modified A arm? Extended ball joints? Both?

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I run extended ball joints and it lowered the car enough for me, although not as much as dropped spindles. I am at about 26.5" on front passenger side and 27" front driver side center of fender to ground heights. Extended ball joints raise the roll center and make turning better by decreasing front roll as well as lowering overall center of gravity. The only gripe is that they induce bump steer, which needs to be corrected with a bump steer kit.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

I use the car for some running around but I keep it really for auto-x and track days when I can afford them. So I'm reading everything I can and I'm trying to do stuff the 'right' way. The drop spindles are a long term goal but I have a lot of other stuff to do before I really need and can afford them. Just keeping tabs on what's available.

572_Rat

You could always buy their "Drag Race" spindles and modify them, that is all they did. The basic design is the same

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Belltech used to make spindles. You might keep an eye out for some, if there are still any left in the wild. Alternatively, just run extended ball joints. They've been discussed on here and on FRRAX, and they do affect bump steer, but only at extremes of suspension travel and IIRC it wasn't very much.

A lot of drift guys run modified steering knuckles to change ackermann as well as get more steering angle at full lock, and many just modify the stock spindles. I have no idea how beefy they are and if they'd be safe enough to run on the street (as opposed to in an arena, where the worst thing that will happen is spinning out if something goes wrong). If you can find someone that knows what they're doing you could see if they could modify a set of spindles from the junkyard.

It'd be nice if thirdgens got a bigger following in drifting, I know a lot of members hate it but think about it... the Nissan S-chassis and Toyota AE86 both use McPherson struts and have an insane aftermarket dedicated to playing with suspension geometry, and are very well respected, while the aftermarket for the thirdgen is smaller and they aren't as well regarded despite being pretty similar...

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

There is no good way to modify them. The basic design is flawed relying on the spindle pin being held to the spindle with a weld in bending. They should be pressed in like stock. The design cannot be saved IMO.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Time for another company to pick up where Racecraft left off and make some 2" and 1.5" drop spindles.. Heck.. Even 1" dropped spindles would sell I think.. Pair the 1" spindles with 0.75" extended ball joints and you have lower CG and you can still run wide wheels probably still fit the outer tie rod inside the wheel with 17" wheels (don't quote me on that one.. But, I would assume so?)

fenton06

They are pressed in before welding, as stated in the other thread.

rlewi771

How is that pressed in, it's completely open on one side

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I can't be. If it was pressed in like stock, there would be no need for a weld. And even if you welded it, it wouldn't break.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. I can't believe the Racecraft guy in the other thread even claimed it to be pressed in. How dumb do they think we are.

fenton06

I've seen them... The Mustang ones are pressed in and then welded as well. If you take the third gen spindle and try to put it into the main plate that comprises most of the spindle it won't slip in to be welded.

The people in this forum have made up their mind that these spindles are junk, but there is a reason other companies aren't making them and that's because it's a tough design.

If it's so simple then design and sell some if you think the market is worth the investment.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

My idea,

Use something like this:

http://www.colemanracing.com/Spindle...-5--P4710.aspx

Machine up a new strut mount, maybe tie it into the lower LBJ/Tie rod mount somehow. Spend hours laying out a workable layout in CAD modeling all sorts of existing parts to make sure it'll all fit. Then run hours of kinematic analysis to make sure it'll be an improvement over stock. Finally brew up some drawings and pay coleman a small fortune to machine the new parts.

In one fell swoop you can get rid of the anti-ackerman steering, give people an option to run a wide variety of hubs like wide 5 or 5x5, and still lower the car with superior geometry.

fenton06

I dig it, I actually have been kicking around doing something like that in the back of my head. I'd like to use

http://www.kartek.com/Product/302/2-...le-Snouts.aspx

and have a completely bolt together piece! I will have to do some digging, the only problem would be trying to keep their wheel in the stock location with the hub and figure out what to do with the strut mount. I wish I had a CMM at my disposal, I am pretty **** about thing being right, and having an accurate starting place is paramount. Really just need lower balljoint placement, spindle centerline and strut mount. Everything else can be tweaked as needed.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

What's the answer? Pressed in and welded or not pressed in and only welded?

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I like where this is going.. lol

fenton06

Pressed in and welded. Part of it is open yes but it is still an interference fit. It's only like this because moving the spindle up 2" gets it very close to the strut mount, hence why it is not a 360* weld like their mustang spindles.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It is better to recognize something isn't going to work and not do it than to do it, put peoples lives at risk and then say, hey its hard, at least they tried.

Engineers make these decisions every day.

The interference between the spindle pin and the strut mount indeed makes the design a challenge.

If the spindle pin is pressed in, why do they bother to weld it? And why did the press fit fail?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

All that for what, 5-6 sales a year?

I think its a great idea for personal use, just not a marketable one. I think that was your point though.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Then why don't you guys do a 1.5" dropped spindle instead? 2" is too much for most people on the street anyway.. 1.5" seems right and if it could be strong enough for street, it would be a seller.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Sounds reasonable. Spring change or 1 inch smaller diameter tire would give the other 1/2 inch if really needed.

SlickTrackGod

You guys are seriously chatting with this brain surgeon? he's proved his ignorance on the other thread.

The only idea of his I would invest in is his ability to take a ****

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Not really chatting. I was looking for ideas or advice on how to get a safe drop without messing up the front geometry. I don't have the depth of knowledge or experience to be sure of what is possible or practical. Can the current spindle be modified 'at home' to handle auto-x or road racing? If not then what? Custom (expensive) set ups? Ball joint, A arm or spring mods? A combination? I for one am trying to read everything some of you guys write about this stuff but there's a lot to assimilate and no 100% agreement on some of it.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

fixed for you,

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

err.. fools? They broke at the weld which could have meant death for the driver and/or people around him racing. Who is the fool? They look good and give a 2" drop which is amazing.. But there is a design flaw that needs to be addressed so that it won't break and kill someone. We are not fools, we are being cautious with the parts that are available for our cars.