rlewi771

In light of all the talk recently about Racecraft drop spindles being used in a road race / autocross environment, I figure it's important that I share my first hand experience with the spindles. I had been using the spindles on my car for the last two summers, with very little street driving and about 5 track days per summer. I imagine the spindles may have had around 1,000 miles on them at the time of failure. The miles came from the commute to and from the track which is all leisurely highway miles.

I purchased the standard spindles, not the road race, as they were not available at the time of my purchase.

I ran a 245/50/16 tire on the stock Iroc wheels.

The events I ran in were comparable to an HPDE. Not wheel to wheel racing.

The day of the failure: I went out on track for the first session of the day. On the warm up lap, I typically run about 50-60% in order to bring the tires up to temp. During the warm up lap, I noticed an odd noise in the right front and handling just didn't feel right. I slowed the car and limped it off track to the pits. I jacked the car up and inspected the front end, and at that time discovered the broken spindle. Called a tow truck and called it a day. The track day cost $300 and the tow home $200, as well as the $580 spent on the spindles. Major bummer, but at least it wasn't a catastrophic failure resulting in losing the car and or my life. edit: It is important that I add, I jack the car up in between all sessions, shake the front end down for looseness, and give everything I can see a visual inspection. In between track events the car gets a VERY thorough inspection. I can say 100% for sure that the spindles were not damaged prior to this first session at the track. I did not hit any curbs on the track or anything out of the normal as it was only the warm up lap.

The location in which mine failed is the exact location that the Corner Carvers post pinpointed as a suspect area on their mustang spindles.

Have a look:









And...my ride home that day:

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That is a pretty interesting way to attach the spindle pin.

Does anyone happen to know the difference between the standard spindle and the road race spindle?

rlewi771

Yes i'd be curious to see if the extra gusseting is in my affected area

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Not sure if this well give any detail, it's so dark.
I'll definitely be keeping an eye out.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Like I stated in our PM's I think that failure was caused primarily by poor welding. The weld has a very small convex bead. Being convex like that puts the weld under constant tension and more prone to cracking. Of course, I'm just basing my opinion from what I've been taught by others. I also wonder what kind of filler material is being used for the welds?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I don't see any difference between your photo as rlewi's from that angle. Now I am really wondering what is different about the road race spindle.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

I don't think they have a "Road Race" spindle. I only see three different spindles on their site. Their standard 2" drop spindles, Their rack & pinion spindles, and their "ultra lite" spindles which are specifically for drag racing. I did notice that they recently added a caption stating "***NOT INTENDED FOR STREET OR ROAD RACE*** " to all of their in house spindles after this incident though.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That is what I am beginning to wonder as well, as I don't see anything different about TEDSgrad's spindles. Hopefully we are wrong.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Thats the 1st thing I noticed also. So your not the only one thinking it.

OP, what does racecraft have to say about it. I see they changed the site to add drag racing only.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Is there an alternative to Racecraft? Will they fix the problem so the spindles can be used as intended? They are (were?) in my future plans.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

As with any aftermarket parts. 95% are "FOR OFF ROAD USE ONLY"
I'd like to see a nice road race version made.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Stock spindles and shorter springs, thats what I'm sticking with.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Gosh darnit.. I guess extended ball joints on stock MOOGs are here to stay..

P.S. Consider yourself lucky you did not race with the spindle like that! Racecraft should IMO cover that expense atleast (perhaps not the towing or race expense, but atleast the part or offer a new, stronger one to you to compensate).

rlewi771

Racecraft claims that it is my fault because of the manner in which I used them. I pointed out to them that I thought their welds might be suspect as the break is solely along the length of their weld, and they told me that their welds were not the problem.

rlewi771

I agree, I got very lucky. It could have turned out much worse

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

The disclaimer was added recently, it was not stated before that they could not be used on the street. That's not cool... You could have gotten hurt.

I wonder what all the people with these spindles will do now if they drive them on the street or road race them.

The road race version, from what I see, adds a gusset (like the one TEDSgrad has) from the tie rod mount to the main body of the spindle, but that's not where rlewi771's spindle broke. It does look like a bad weld.

KillaSwagg977

That's crazy how is it your fault by the manner your using it...Thought it was made 2 race on...hmmmm

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Hard to argue with cold hard facts, in this case...the pictures. There's too little penetration, not enough filler in the welds and possible a more ductile filler would have helped

carlos64030

iTrader: (1)

That definitely looks like a bad weld job to me. BTW... whenever you have a part break on your car and you're seeking compensation from the manufacturer, NEVER tell them you use/used your car in ANY type of competition. I've seen this same sort of thing happen before and the manufacturer won't stand behind their product. You'd think they would do everything possible to make things right to keep from getting negative attention. It's not like this spindle is a million dollar part that's so expensive to replace.

rlewi771

I could have easily told them I was taking my Grandma for a ride but I wanted to be honest on what happened as it's such a critical part to have a failure on. I wanted Racecraft to know so that they can ensure their product is up to the rigors as it could be very dangerous otherwise.

Racecraft has offered to make it right, i'm still waiting for that, but they did say they were going to take care of me. I simply posted this thread as informational for other people, not to gripe about racecraft.

It's a shame that they don't seem to think they are up to the task that so many of us purchased them for.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

So much for the "race" in Racecraft. If anyone has these it sounds like a good idea to add to the gusseting. Is that do-able? Advisable? Without screwing up the spindle of course.

tvc 15

For drag racing or not, shitty welds. Looks like tig welds with very little fill rod.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, I wouldn't drag race on those.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

That said, thanks a million for the info, seriously.. Was about to buy these in the spring and unless Racecraft makes some announcement or fixes this issue I won't be buying these anymore.

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

That's a serious bummer. Was going to buy these as well. Maybe Racecraft will pull their head out and fix the issue.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Extra gussets won't help if they aren't welded well.

Such a shame, and good thing it did not happen at speed and damaged your car, or worse, you.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

The pin of the spindle is one of the highest loaded parts on our cars, It wouldn't surprise me if the heat treat on the factory pin is to a higher strength than most connecting rods.

The factory spindle is held in place by a helacious heavy duty press fit into the factory knuckle. If you weld the pin to the knuckle at the outer face you've just compromised the heat treat of the pin with the HAZ of the weld at its most highly loaded point. If you look at some of the circle track parts they also don't weld the pin to the rest of the knuckle.

http://www.colemanracing.com/Spindle...eel-P3706.aspx

fenton06

I am posting this on behalf of Racecraft, my employer. Here we go:

Just to clear the air. When we received the spindle from the customer I had asked him if he was street driving or road racing. His reply was that he was not racing and did some street driving. At this time I told him that the spindle we received was not intended for street or road race use. Being that he was so polite about his spindles cracking I offered to replace his spindles with the correct spindle for the application, which is our road race spindle. All he had to do was pay for the upgrade to the road race spindle option and the spindles themselves would be replaced. Being that it is a custom spindle with the road race option it took us a few weeks to get it done for him. At the time of completion we called and told him his spindles were ready and that he needed to pay the difference between the spindles he had and the road race spindles which he declined to do. In return Racecraft Inc. refunded him the original cost of his spindles after 2.5 years of use which were the incorrect spindles for his application in the first place which we were not obligated to do.

We have ran our spindles for over 7 years and have had very few failures, most of which are due to improper use or crashes. These spindles are on some of the fastest drag cars in the world, which the spindles were designed for without the road race option.

Here are some pictures of the spindles. None of the parts on this spindle are butt welded. All components are trenched on a CNC machine for the most penetration possible.

Beefy steering arm gusset:



Extra ball joint gusseting:



Extra spindle welding:



Back of strut mount ear:



The sticker that EVERY spindle that leaves our shop receives:





RACECRAFT STANDS BEHIND ALL OUR PRODUCTS

- Matt Mungall

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Matt,

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. The problem isn't how you dealt with the failure, the problem is the failure itself.

The spindle pin is on a huge cantilever, I would not load a weld that way. I think you could improve the design by adding a flange to the spindle pin, then press it in from the back. Then you would weld it in as well, if you wanted. I understand there may be some packaging issues with this suggestion. But this way you aren't loading the weld.

John

fenton06

That is how they are made.

fenton06

And to be clear I posted this for Matt since I already had an account here.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Looks like you need to send your welders back for recertification.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

I don't see a road race version for our cars listed on your web site. Is it a special order? How is it requested and what is the cost?

Dreambird

How much is the spindle with the road race option?

fenton06

It was special order and is no longer available due to people not using the correct spindles for their application and then blaming us for the failure.

fenton06

Call for pricing. The set in the pictures is for sale and the road race option has been discontinued for the reasons stated above.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I've never seen a factory spindle fail, but this is the second aftermarket spindle in the last 2 months I have seen fail, from 2 different manufactures.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

If the road race version is stronger, wouldn't it make more sense to offer Just that version?

fenton06

It weighs more and has a lot more time in the welding and machining. We build parts for drag racing.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Strength comes at a cost.

Seems like a good business decession to me.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone else make a road race 2" drop spindle for 3rd gens?

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

How much lighter is your spindle than a stock spindle?

fenton06

Our ultra light spindles are 5.6 lbs each, the regular 2" drop spindles are 12.6 lbs.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

If you guys sell a road race version for road racing, why would you discontinue that part if people want to buy it when they road race ? You mentioned because people weren't using them for the right application.. But what other application could be harsher than road racing (aside from maybe off-roading which people don't do in 3rd gens)?

You are saying that the spindles are for drag only, yet you offered a "road race" version of them.. Which is it?

Also, the lighter weight is a factor, but not the main one.. Even slightly heavier than stock, yet 2" of drop is enough for me to buy it IF it is AS STRONG or STRONGER than factory. Even a 1.5" drop spindle would be interesting as well because pairing that with extended ball joints would be awesome and might allow people to run wider wheels with the drop spindles and ext. ball joints (not sure if 0.5" less drop is enough for the outer tie rod to fit in the wheel?)

Just my 0.02$

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Anyone know what a stock spindle weighs?

fenton06

The road race version was a beefed up drag spindle and was special order. The road race option option added the extra strength to the drag race spindle to make it suitable for a street/road race environment. We no longer offer a spindle for a road race or street environment.

hrspwr

iTrader: (3)

They weigh between 16-18lbs.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Okay cool, thanks for the clarification Fenton.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Why is there a dimple in the end of the weld on that spindle snout? That makes for one nice stress riser/beginning of a potential crack. Someone let off the pedal a bit fast?

Also, some areas have a lot more color on the weld than others. Are these steel or chrome moly?

Just asking, not meant as an attack.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Most of which are due to improper use? What were the other failures? How many failures? How many have you sold? Whats the percentage of failure?