TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Agreed, but keeping the oem wheels helps offset cost, initially, and can run r rubber on the 16X8's and keep street rubber on 17's (when I get them). Or does your kit fit inside the oem's? I like the idea of two useable sets. Cost up front, cost over the long haul, weight, and application will spin my head as well as the wheels.

RTLACY

TEDSgrad,

Nice setup! How big is the disc and what spindle are you running on that setup?

RTLACY

87350IROC,

Will these fit the Wilwood rotors, I am looking at the 12.9" SRP?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

13" disc with Racecraft drop spindles (2" drop)

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

My kit pictured fits inside of IROC wheels. It will not fit crosslace wheels. You would have to go down in rotor size to fit and likely more offset as well to fit in the crosslace. I am not sure about the slotted wheels like yours. I would need some measurements.

I do like your kit. It is just for the average user the cost of 2pc rotors and the radial mount SL6 does not justify. I am always happy to swap in 2pc rotors and any other features if that is what someone wants.

I am working on a few "unique" 1 off kits right now for people on this board who are looking for something more.

I am also waiting for my first customer for the 15.5" carbon ceramic ZR1 kit that is fully designed.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

What Wilwood rotor?

These will fit any rotor/hat with the standard gm 70.3mm center bore. What brakes are you using?

RTLACY

Car has stock 4 wheel discs but I have the 2" drop road race spindle and plan to use Wilwoods 13" 2-piece rotors and 6-piston caliper like TEDSgrad has. Read somewhere where it was important to machine the hub to fit snuggly inside the hat. Yes? No?

Also, do you sell a bracket to fit the set up I described. I plan to use the 16" IROC wheel at first so everything must fit.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Since you are using IROC wheels you do not need the higher offset rotor that TEDSgrad is using. The kit I showed pictures of fits inside of front IROC wheels no issue.

The beauty of the C4HD rotor based kit is that C4 rotors are inexpensive and you can get them anywhere. I think TEDSgrad would probably agree that he would be using an off the shelf rotor if it would have fit. Remember you can get 2pc rotors in the C4HD fitment from Wilwood, Baer, and others.

Also, I believe TEDSgrad's kit uses the narrow caliper which uses thinner pads than the full width calipers I am using. Again I suspect this was due to size constraints.

So anyway, to answer your questions.

No it is not critical that the hub fit snugly in the hat. Rather the snout of the hub locates the rotor.

I make brackets for the kit I have pictured. Again this uses the C4HD rotor and the Wilwood FSL 4 piston caliper. It would also fit the Wilwood BNSL6 6 piston lug mount version of the calipers that TEDSgrad is using with a very smaller spacer thickness change. This would again be on the C4HD rotor. Again with the option to use a 2pc version of the rotor.

I also love playing with custom projects if you had something else in mind.

FSL on C4HD rotor inside IROC wheel. Right click - view image for a huge picture



Bracket.

RTLACY

Good information, I was not aware of the off-set issue. Those do look good and fill the 16" wheel. Thanks!

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Possibly on the rotors, but they have two desirable characteristics: light weight, and better heat dissipation. Since my pads are thinner, heat is more of a concern and also with 13" size. I know I'll change compounds for track which is easy with this caliper (another sell point). Yes, size constraints.
Since a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, I decided to follow/learn from Dean. My thought process was LOW UNSPRUNG WEIGHT, strongest components that would fit, and ability to easily change settings from street to track. I wish I had known of those Kore hubs rather than Ed's plain jane aluminum hubs. I still vacillate in my mind over wheels/tires; even though I know what Dean said above is true. I want a wider footprint, but that destroys the quest for low unsprung weight; plus, I've made my bed (so to speak) with the drop spindles. I've always believed in equal footprint front to back, but I'm finally considering 245 -->275 when I purchase 17's.
Again as Dean said, low unsprung weight aids handling and my car handles great, firm not harsh. I had never heard of these swivel weight jacks before Dean's thread, but I am a big believer in them. The articulation it affords is noticeable. They deserve more attention than they have gotten - my opinion. Lot of work putting in, but inexpensive.
Your beautiful pics are more than just great photography - your kits are excellent! When I decide what to do with the rears/9 bolt; I'll be calling.

Brian

SlickTrackGod

If you can get it to fit a tall spindle Impala appication- its the same spindle I run on the truck. I'd be interested in a price if it does. I know Kore3 has a Z06 kit for the tall spindle that will work for me. I'd certainly put carbon brakes to good use on this-

BTW John, Every time I see that picture of your car I melt- It is awesome. Just a flawless stance

RTLACY

I am also trying to follow Dean's suggestions and have modified the car for weight-jacks with swiveler's. If I could figure out how to post a pic I would share it.

Anyway, so far I have purchased the 2" drop spindles. Hope to have the Spohn A-arms Dean suggested & Koni Yellows by Months end.

I had planned on cutting down the stock discs & making hubs but after seeing the KORE3 units with the bigger bearings I will be getting those instead.

Now that I understand how well the C4/HD brakes will fit & that they are available in light weight 2-piece rotor I will go that route.

TEDSgrad, what did you use for rear springs/shocks?

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Spohn coil-overs w/ #200. I went with SA for now. Will upgrade the shock after I wear these out and learn more.
My build thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...g-vetruck.html

a similar one with tube k-member: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...00lbs-its.html

skinny z

Good read gentlemen.
Thanks.

rlewi771

TEDSgrad, I believe the rotors in your picture at the top of the page are on the wrong side. Looking at the vanes, I'm fairly certain they are meant to face the other way. Rather than scooping the air in from the edge of the rotor, it's meant to pull air from the hub area and be pushed out the vains. I realize that picture could be purely mock up, or I could be wrong but I'd be interested in others comments regarding that.

Also, be very careful racing on your racecraft drop spindles. If you notice their site now states in all capitals and asterisks "not intended for street or road race" on all of their spindles.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, a mock up - good attention to detail!
The Racecraft guys are very knowledgeable - and willing to take the time to educate their customers (uncommon). Most of us have had some unpleasant experiences in the aftermarket arena. These guys are stellar. Those spindles are very stout pieces. When I spoke with them, I told them my intended use. I don't foresee any problems. After all, they're not called Streetcraft Seriously, their lawyers probably made them do it.
John, you should consider working with them - a supplier to them, brackets to get in the door, then the full deal. Give 'em a sales pitch.

SlickTrackGod

Wxtch out for the fitment on the SPohn A-arms. I lke the quality and the DelSphere joints he offesr, but I have heard a few stories from people that have used various options of Spohn A-arms that gave different fitment that stock measurements when they compared the car from before and after. A-arms should not change the ride height at all if properly jigged- unless that is they are designed with a drop pocket for lowering purposes.(I built some of these on my truck years ago- the spring pocket is lowered by 2" giving a 3" drop via that and another 2" drop from a 1" shorter spring. The srop pocket allowed me a 5" drop on the truck while only using a spring that was 1" shorter than OEM.) Also a FYI- you can not generally use a drop spindle AND a drop A-arm on the same car due to spring pocket ground clearance issues). Im most cases, a drop spindle is a better way to do things based on tie rod geometry (steering). The trucks geometry was better when I lowered it without a drop spindle- go figure- but 3rd gens need steering correction when lowered.

One of these days I will bump Valentin's (Black Mamba) car and do an entire front suspension dial-in on video (he is a whiz on computers and video editing etc.) He is getting that car more and more built as the months go by. Its time I start taking him to the next level since he has learned ALOT and is eager to keep going with it. As he gets more parts, I will take a day by summertime and pull his car down and completely tweak the entire front susensionw ith every little trick I can give him- and Ill have him document it all as he and I do it. It'll basically be like how I would setup and string the NASCAR chassis to a baseline setup prior to each race weekend- I'll show just what it takes to do it all- well most of it. I do not have my own scales. I used to use the team scales but no longer have access to them. I need to buy my own (maybe Ill have those by summer to since I will need to scale another car I am building with coilovers).

Back to the A-arms. Goota say that UMI makes a nice product and I have not heard any fitment issues with their arms. I have endorsed alot of SPohns products and used them on my car, but I will not endorse something I have hear about actual fitment issues with- and his A-arms have had documented issue from members on this site.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hey Brian,

Yes, all interesting considerations. I certainly admit, I have a set my car up to perform well but I have also made looks concessions like the big wheels and the oversized brakes. Still I like to perform the best I can even with handicaps. I am upping my spring rates this year and am going to try a 36mm front sway bar.

Thanks for the compliments on the brake kits. I have acquired a rear fourth gen and rear C5 rotor to play around with for a 9-bolt / Wilwood kit. It is high on my list of projects. I am just very busy right now with my day job and going to grad school part time. Its good to be busy.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure they could be adapted to an Impala spindle without to much trouble. I have been meaning to get my hands on one to play with.

With that said just the front Carbon brakes are north of $4k. Although I'd be willing to do a set for cost to get one out the door.

Thanks for the compliment on the photo. That is my favorite photo of the car. When I look at that one, I wonder why I ever decided to go away from the iroc wheels. Unfortunately, it is hard to find good tires for that size now. I loved my old GS-D3's. I am curious to try the Bridgestone RE-11's.

BTW, I love the (lexan?) rear spoiler on the truck, it really suits the style. Do you feel the vehicle has benefited from it? What do you think about a similar design on a third gen?

John

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I recall our conversation. I would highly suggest anyone considering running them to PM you for the scoop.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It is something I have considered. The one thing that makes me nervous is how they limit backspace. I believe they would not even fit a properly backspaced 17x9.5", but I could be wrong. Perhaps Paul knows.

SlickTrackGod

WHat do you have on your car now(wheel wise)? I did not know you took the IROC's off. They are a beuatiful wheel, I will always be partial towards them.

I am looking about 2k for the Z06 setup I want to do but with 2pc rotors. That is getting a little steep for just a truck. I do not build the motor any more radiacal in this thing becasue it is just a truck and it is a daily driver. Its pretty dam fast for what it is, but it isn't fast if you get my drift- not worth that kind of exotic brakes, especially since I want to keep to the "vetruck" 2006 Z06 theme I built it to.

The rear spoiler works bigtime. you can feel it at 70 when it returns the rear down quickly over a freeway bump, at 100 it is sitting the rear down 9the whole truck lowers actually (prior to this the rear would get light) and at over 130 the thing feels like a rudder its so stable- its actually more stable at 130 than it is a 100. I have done 152 in it on a slight downhill grade and the chin splitter gounded out on a valley on a hwy which normally sits about 4" off the ground static.Only 134 without the front splitter in the same road- its an aerodynamic brick wall. The truck only puits down 340 rwhp, but at that it only gets about 8mpg (11 at best) so it has enough power for having to drive it daily. I do not seed another 3mpg 110 octane gas hog like my race vette that just sits in the garage anymore.That car's glory days is done mainly because of fuel costs and lack of availiabilty for any kind of normal use. I used to run tetraetholyne in it but that stuff is poison. Avgas is hard to come by anymore out of a pump at Fullerton Airport, and they took Xylene off the market so mixing that is out the window anymore also. The truck just stays smog legal. It was the same dam So Cal limitation I had on my little V6 Camaro- I could not build that the way I wanted to either. We have very strict "VISUAL" checks as well as the tailpipe smog check. Its why everyone goes to the modern LS Erod motors with the sequential fire EFI. If I could get sqential on this an get my SIngle plane legal intake manifold on it I would pick up both power and mileage- but no one makes a sequential setup to fit it legally with the series 80 distributor I HAVE TO RUN for visual. Calif car laws are such bullshit- but I still have enough fun.

BigMods has a rear spoiler on his ride- he made Super Chevy last month (I think it was that mag, one of them anyways)

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I ended up putting a set of 19x10's on the front and rear. I was really getting frustrated with the lack of good tires in the 16" size. My original plan was do to a set of 18" iroc replicas, finished like stock, and widened to 10". I got nervous with all the really cheap iroc knock offs and didn't really want to risk it. So I started looking as mesh wheels, which to my eye generally look smaller than 5 spokes and I thought the 18's just didn't look quite right. So its crazy, and these wheels and brakes are heavier than before of course. I haven't driven the car yet with them, but I sure hope I didn't ruin how good the car was. I think I should be ok as this stuff is no heavier than what the ZL1 or CTS-V has. We'll see.

I hear you on the ZR1 brakes, they are crazy expensive. However the 15.5" rotor is 13lbs. Pretty cool.

Definitely give Tobin at Kore3 a call for the Z06 brakes. I have spoken with him for many hours over the phone and he really knows his stuff. Also make sure to ask him about the road race hubs and the spindle bearing pre-load spacer.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBullet...d.php?t=236934

SlickTrackGod

That is a good second choice on wheels. I was seriously looking to do close to the same last year. I cam across this 3rd gen in a salvage yard here in So Cal and was this close to grabbing this rare 3rd gen flares and build an IMSA replica car with BBS 3 pc wheels. It would look alot like this Peerless Camaro (I have helped Ron Trinble with this car at Speedweek down in Coronado one year when he was racing it at the vintage races.) I almost pulled the trigger to buld another 3rd gen- maybe someday but I have too many cars right now.

Be prepared for $$$$ for the 19's rubber...ouch, I run them on the back.

I have never had an issue with the front wheelbearings on my truck. It has seen 24 hard and heavy years of abuse. The Impalas must have a bad wheel centerline offset and put uneven pressure on the bearings as a result.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I seriously considered doing a vintage race look like those. However I did some photoshops and decided I didn't like the gold center with my dark red car and cleaning exposed hardware is a pain. I think an IMSA inspired street driven thirdgen would be the best.

Yes 19" rubber is expensive, but all the good compounds are available. I can't think of a single 200 treadwear or less street tire for the 16's.

My interest in the wheel bearing spacer is to add some rigidity to the spindle. I'm not saying in needs it, but it can never hurt, other than a bit of weight. I will be running them on my car. But as usual have changed 100 things at once, so I'll have no idea if they did anything.

Photoshop with 18" gold center wheels. This is actually the picture that also convinced me 19's were the way to go for looks. I think the gold would look killer on a white or black car.



John

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Yes, especially the GTA with it's gold badging. I have a call in to see if those centers can be in silver. Have not heard back, yet.
Berk's looks great - link is above (900# spring)

RTLACY

Dean,

Thanks for clarifying the issue with the Spohn a-arms! So. . . UMI then.

You setting up a 3rd gen and doccumenting it would be great! I can use every bit of guidance you can muster since I am neck deep into this thing and there is no going back.

RTLACY

I also had a great experience working with Cody at Racecraft. Just so you know the spindle they sell for Road Racing is beefier and also costs more than the standard 2" drop spindle.

SlickTrackGod

I have no hands on knowledge of any issues with Spohn A-arms. I am just stating to read up on them. I myself have read second hand about issues with them. I happen to like Spohn products

RTLACY

I have had prior good luck with Spohn products and have his LCA's, Panhard bar and TA/Trans mount for the aftermarket T-56. I did read several reports of problems including TEDSgrad's issues. Has anyone figured out exactly why they move the front tire rearward so much? They seem to be a great product in every other way.

RTLACY

John,

Those wheels look great! Do you have a picture of the car on the ground with those? Also curious about fitment issues?

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

I noticed this as well, but this isn't for their road race version (which by the way I cannot seem to find on their online catalog anymore), which is what I would get if I bought those.. Also, they will do a mod to fit tubular a-arms (the one that TEDSgrad did on his own) so that it doesn't come in contact with the sway bar endlinks. That mod was 50$ more but worth it IMO so that it fits without issue.

EDIT: I just looked at the pics on their site and it seems they changed their design and they modified the support bracket in between the tie rod mount and the ball joint mount so that it doesn't come into contact with the sway bar endlinks. I wonder what their "road race" version does to strengthen it tho?

rlewi771

John, if you are interested in those spoilers, check out Blaine Fabrication http://www.blainefabrication.com/ Alan Blaine does some really incredible work on F bodies. There is a plenty of discussion on FRRAX about the spoilers as well.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I love my Spohn tubral a-arms with del-sphere joints. I did not have the tire positioning issue that others had. I also couldn't care less about a slight "ride height" change as I use weight jacks.

The nice thing about the del-sphere joints is when I test fit the new wheels and tires (they are 27" tall vs stock 26") I was able to micro tune the location of the wheel in the wheel well by adjusting the del-sphere ends. It made the difference between the wheels fitting and not.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Car has not been on the ground yet, but I have extensively fit them on the car. Fit should be really good. The front wheels are very tight.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Thanks. Those are very cool. I"m just not sure they suit my build.

SlickTrackGod

Mine are the standard Longacre units you can get from Summitracing, etc.