Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I don't think a regular alignment shop could or that they would even know what you are talking about. The only way I know how to do it requires removal of the springs.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

The aligment machine I have at my dealership has all sorts of options, one of them includes measuring bump steer.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

Dang. I guess I'll call and ask. Hope it doesn't involve spring removal cuz that would be expensive lol.. 0.75" shouldn't be too bad tho.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Shouldn't cost you anything to remove the spring. You can test the bump steer at home. Lock the steering wheel and attach a laser pointer to your tire using tape or whatever. Make sure the laser pointer is parallel with the tire. Point the laser at a wall. With the spring removed, move the suspension through its travel marking the wall at various points. Using the distance from the center of the wheel to the wall, and the horizontal distance between the marks, you can figure out your bump steer.

SCCAjunkie

Yes, but unless you can cycle the suspension through it's entire range of travel, you won't have complete info. If you have time to remove the springs, and alignment machine can easily handle the job. That said, I personally have found it easier to bolt a tube to the wheel flange (I use a 1" square tube about 12" long, drilled to fit over two of the studs), and then measure from a reference square as I cycle through the suspension travel. Now that I've thought about it to explain it, an alignment machine would be the easier way to go if you have the time...

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to try out the Summit 1" extended ball joint and was wondering if anyone else has come up with any solutions for a suitable dust boot that will work out?

iansane

iTrader: (1)

I found that balljoints from (I'll have to double check to be 100% sure) a '63 Imperial were reasonably close to the same size and if I stretched out the metal base ring with an exhaust stretcher, I could get them to fit on the balljoint. They're tight but real close to the edge. I've cycled the suspension quite a bit putting it on and off of jackstands over the last few months but I haven't had the car mobile yet to verify they'll stay. I'm pretty sure they will but don't know.

twigger

I used the Howe ones and zipped tied them to the base which secured them quite well. They couldnt handle the twisting and already ripped.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Ian, I think I'll give those a try. Sad to hear that the Howe boots didn't work out, I was going to try those as well. I may also just spend some time in my parts department and figure out what else can be an option.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Twisting? As in regular suspension articulation? Or turning of the wheels? How long did they last?

twigger

Maybe a couple months, just from turning the wheels. I think if I had greased the ball stud portion where the boot makes contact with the shaft that maybe it would have allowed it to slip back and forth and not torn the boot.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Well I test fitted a boot from a '63 imperial and it is close to fitting the base but the opening for the shank was way too large.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I came onto a possible bumpsteer fix while putting back in my front suspension. I noticed there was a lot of slop in the factory holes in the steering box mounts, and even more slop on the idle link mounts. I decided to go ahead and slot the steering box mounts about an 1/8” to incline the box even more and raise the centerlink. I slotted the back hole straight up and the top hole forward. Finally, I used a jack under the pitman arm to make sure I was pushing all the slop in the holes in my favor, fastened the steering box and moved the idle arm to match so the center link was horizontal. I don’t think you can slot these holes much more without a lot more work since this got me into the anti-crush sheetmetal inside the frame rail.

Here is the result:


I’m guessing I raised the centerlink a little over ½” from where it was before. Just eyeballing it the steering arm doesn’t look even close to going to the front view instant center.


So I setup a way to quickly check the bumpsteer with an angle bolted to the hub and two plum bobs. The car was jacked up in the front, but not in the back and somewhat close to horizontal side to side. I intend to redo this once I get the taller balljoints in with the entire car close to level on jackstands. I'll also try it with a longer angle for more accuracy. I decided to check it with the stock height balljoint first, and as predictable it was quite a bit out, over 1° of toe change.


To get an idea how the taller balljoints would impact bumpsteer I used a washer from one the strut to spindle bolts that fit just about right and was able to get a thread or two enganged on the balljoint.

It was impossible to get tight, so I think this joint may have moved on me a little since my overall scrub change was a little more different than I would’ve thought. I was able to get repeatable bumpsteer measurements though with very little bump steer. In fact toe change was so small it fell into my margin of error since I was just using a tape measure.

I'm going to go ahead and order 1/2" taller balljoints and recheck once I get them installed. The taller balljoints will also give me a little more bump travel since the a-arm won't be contacting the frame.

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Here's a quick spreadsheet with my results:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...EVZS25MSENFY2c

BAMA92

Im getting ready to rebuild my front end. Im also about to drop some $ in Spohn products. My car has been lowered and thats it. Im looking into the Howe extended ball joints and rubber bushings. I hate poly bushings. Im also putting in the strut mounts and spohn bumb steer kit. Im will be running 17 X 8 TT.

Do you see any problems with a bump steer kit fitting with the Howe ball joint. Spohn said they are not aware of any fitment issues with rims

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

If your front wheels end up with zero offset or close, you will have no clearance issue with the tall joint and the tie rod end. But if you go wider and more inboard, you will start having issues.

Be awaire, with the taller joint, there is a good chance the steering stop on an aftermarket control arm will not make contact with the spindle.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

Also, the stock bump stops will not hit before the struts bottom out anymore. I found that out the hard way.

dannyboyemt

subscribed, going to have to try this when i get some spare cash.

BAMA92

has anyone used Spohn bump steer kit and the howe extended ball joints.

BAMA92

@ //<86TA>\\ I not sure what the off set is. its to the factory specs other than being a 17 x 8 I will see if i can find the numbers

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

a factory front 8" wheel would be a zero offset, or 4.5" of bs, so if thats the case you should be just fine

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

no point buying that if you dont need it. You will have to measure the cars actual bump steer after the install to see if its even needed.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

with what strut mounts? stock probably but with the aftermarket ones i would think there would be plenty of room. Your car is pretty low though.

DBLTKE

iTrader: (1)

With Founders 1" raised strut mounts, Koni yellows, stock front bump stops, and Summit 1" extended ball joints. It was fairly easy to bottom out the struts. I have since raised my car 1.5-2" to avoid bottoming out. I need to get drop spindles before I can safely lower it back down.

Lonnie P

If you are running wide tires/wheels, drop spindles will cause the tie rod to hit the wheel. Measure before you buy.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

That is the dilemma: ext ball joints with bump steer and wider wheels, or drop spindles with 8" limit wheels up front. For a track car, wider wheels and ext ball joints - 295's or even 30X's. For street driven, choose your own preference - too wide will not be comfortable. Personally, the choice for street is either 275's or the drops at 245. How much drive time (cornering) will that xtra 30 really be in use, track use, etc? Add to the equation the weight reduction for the drops, too. Good arguments for both paths.
Brake choice can tip the scales, too (so to speak). If weight reduction is critical in these choices-Alum hubs, two piece rotors, FSL calipers,etc - then added to the drops would make for a real competitive package over just a 30 increase in width.


It ain't all one choice; and if it isn't fun & comfortable to drive everywhere, then it doesn't get driven everywhere, and all that performance is parked.

Lonnie P

Personally I'm using 275/40-17's, a 1/2" extended ball joint, & Global West competition springs. I'm at approx 25.5" wheel lip height up front with cut down bumpstops & raised strut mounts. I would not want it any lower for a performance application or a street driver. People go much lower for a nice look, but it tends to limit where/how fast you can drive it.

At the time I did mine there was not a true "street type" extended ball joint available that was any longer than .5". I will not run one without a dust boot or a weld in type joint. I used the ProForged ball joint as there was published strength testing for this one.

I wanted to use a 1" longer joint to help the front roll center. I looked at the Howe, but it was not a factory assembly, but a modular setup. I was not concerned with the strength as it was designed for competition. I did not use this due to the fact that I wanted a sealed unit... my car gets driven in the rain etc.

My only concern with longer ones (non race type) is the strength of the ball joint stud. Stresses increase as they get longer. If you're building a ground scraping cruiser, that is fine, but it becomes a potential issue if you plan to hammer some turns on a regular basis. A failure here could total you car.

I would be interested in the bumpsteer measurement with the longer ball-joint... but with the mimimal suspension travel on these cars with stiff springs, I'm sure it is not a lot.

I originally looked into the dropped spindle, but it appeared that you would be limited to less than 5" backspacing.

My next mod would be a 305 tire with an 18x10 wheel. The 18" allows me to run more backspace, clearing the tie rod & keeping the front wheels tucked.

hotrodf1

Does anyone have any good bumpsteer data before and after a extended ball joint install?

I'm fighting some bumpsteer issues on mine (dedicated racecar) and trying to determine if spending the bucks on some nice Howe .75" longer units is worth it or not.

tvc 15

If you run a longer ball joint you will have to lower the outer tie rod end the same amount or it will cause toe in. And if you run max caster it will also have a slight effect.

twigger

Just an update, I am running a 17x9.5 wheel and the Howe tall ball joint, which leaves me no room for a bump steer kit. The bump steer usually isn't an issue for me but more of a slight annoyance. However I think I am going to go back to a stock style joint. I havn't found a way to get a boot to cover these joints properly. I have to grease these joints all the time or they creak and pop and it only a matter of time before they are shot. Not really that great for a daily driver in rainy Washington.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

The Howe boot doesn't work?

Roostmeyer

iTrader: (3)

They worked for me on the summit +.5lbj's... there's nothing to positively retain them though so I'm not sure if they're still in place.


Have you tried to move up the center link? I'll go back and update my photos... did some cleaning on photo bucket and it looks like I need relink them.

tvc 15

Energy Suspension boot with a cut piece of pvc tubing on top. Tubing is painted black.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

The HOWE supplied boot did not fit for me either for the 0.75" extended BJ.

The garage that installed the boot used a boot from an older 60's Camaro IIRC (could be wrong on this one though)... That one apparently fit.

twigger

87350IROC, the Howe boots may work but I didn't do them properly. I was able to secure them to the base of the ball joint with a zip tie but at the top if you don't grease them they will tear. The rubber is thin and it doesn't take much and I am actually not sure if greasing them will keep them from tearing.

Roostmeyer, I havn't tried moving the center link but I would assume I could make it a little better that way, not sure if it would completely do the trick.

It looks like there are some other creative solutions out there that are a little more permanent. I am planning on installing some caster camber bolts and I don't know for sure but I would assume that is going to make my bump steer worse. I am going to experiment but I believe in my situation the lose of camber gain that I will sacrifice by loosing the tall ball joints will be worth it to have less scrub with the use of the caster camber bolts.

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

You could always try using spacers or maybe adapters to push the wheels farther out depending on how close the bump steer kit is from the inner wheel. Or you could go to a bigger wheel (maybe 18" would fit inside? Not sure you'd have to measure though).