KYLE87

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soultron

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I really like my alstons, but I recently learned that I've lost ground clearance.
It's only a bit, but I'm lowered and I live in an apartment complex with speed bumps all over. I got taller tires and it's fine, but if it was 2inches lower instead of 1.75... I'd have trouble. That's just me though.

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

N/a

online170

Ive been in the market for these, and ive also had a real tough decision to make between UMI, Spohn, and Alston.

Ive ruled out alston, because it only welds on two points.

Now the decision is between UMI and Spohn.

I dont think you could beat the ground clearance of spohn, but UMI isnt far behind. Both designs are very intuitive, but Spohn's is TUBULAR, where UMIs is a boxed design. Some may argue about which is better, but i havent heard of a failure in either case yet (there may have been talk about weld quality on similar products, but the actual part was ok).

I was almsot 100% for UMI until i learned about Spohn. I noticed that you could pinch weld the spohn SFCs anywhere they come in contact with the floor, and that is really an awesome thing to do. So for shear weld points, and clearance, i think Spohn wins.

Now im 99% for UMI and 99% for Spohn, i still havent made my decision. But i think id prolly make my decision on who is cheaper.

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

Irrelevant

Al Hasse

Not saying anything bad about Spohn, but you can stitch weld the UMIs also. I had a couple of friends weld mine up and they used some 1/4" and 1/2" round stock to fill the gap between SFC and pinch weld, and between SFC and floorboard, then welded the stock in place. Very solid.

online170

Absolutely, i know where youre coming from.

I wouldnt have any trouble sleeping at night if i had any of the three, but it basically comes down to preference because all three will enforce the car "enough".

If you research SFC, because the topic hasbeen covered to death over and over, you will start to like the spohns more and more.

You want as many weld points as you can get, and you also want it to be at the widest points in the car as possible. UMI and spohn both do this incredibly well, so either flip a coin, or take the cheaper one....
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Haha, ok now im completely split down the middle. You just made the decision harder.

I guess now the only difference is the design (tubular vs. boxed) and clearance.

Dont quote me on this, but from what ive seen, it "LOOKS" like spohn is better on clearance.

Al Hasse

Glad I could help

This should give you an idea on UMI's clearance. On my 89 RS during welding...

87 formy

How big of a difference do you guys think the multiple welds make? It seems like a lot of extra work because I'm sure you would have to take the carpet out to do that as opposed to just leaving it and welding it to the normal points.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

I'm a big fan of UMI (see my sig) and find the quality to be increadible. NO issues.

426 Wedge

I'm also looking to purchase SFC's. I like the boxed style. In my opinion they are much stronger. Car manufactures, Nascar, etc use boxed frames. Example: Secure one end of pipe 1 foot off the ground. Stand on one the other end of a 10' length of 2" pipe and it will bend. Stand on a 10' length of box tube and it will hardly move. Without getting into some fancy metalurgical and engineering theory I believe that simple test says it all. Not bashing any company on their product but I want to get the best for my money.

a1990camarors

not meaning to jack this thread but has anyone had issues with UMI sfcs with LS1 y pipes and longtubes? Im doing a LS1 swap this summer already started my money pool for it lol and i like how strong the UMI SFC looks but I want too be able too clear the exhaust and still have it tucked with good ground clearance just wondering if u guys had any problems. I also sorta leaning towards sophn so i can still have my LEDs as far out as possible lol its a toughy just think if UMI had as wide of selection as Sophn wed all be beating ourselves trying too figure out who too buy from.

online170

they should get together and make a super SFC, its the only solution.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Spohn's are lighter and the tubular might be a better design for the SFCs. And, from that way it looks, the Spohn may clear big exhaust better. That's why I have a set of Spohn's setting under my bed.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

from what ive seen, they are pretty much the same design, just one is rectangular and one is round.

426wedge. If you get a piece of 1.5x1.5x11ga squarebox tubing and a piece of 1.5" .120 (11ga) wall round tubing, i doubt you would be able to bend either of them more that the other. They are both very strong, the round is not like a noodle compared to rectangular

that being said, i am also a fan of UMI, though i run alston connectors

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

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BNBZ28

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i dont think it really matter just get a set. ive seen people crack the windshield without. i bought a set as one of my first upgrades. it was a bolt in i think it was competition engineering. bolted them in and havent touched them since. i would think they are all about the same. and the ground clearence is the exact same. not the slightest difference.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Looks like a difference in ground clearance. The Spohn set well above where the UMIs do. But, that's on opposite sides of the car.
Nonetheless, Spohn is lighter. hehe.

online170

The UMIs are also installed on a GFX car, where as the Spohn are on a non GFX car. I dont think spohns are visible at all from the side, but you can see a little bit of the UMIs.

In any case, i dont think ground clearance is different in either case. What is the lowest point on your car other than the exhaust? I would have to say, the frame rails that your trans x-member is bolted to. In both cases, the SFCs are higher than those points when installed. You have lowered the car on the edges, but for our purposes of clearance (ie: speedbumps), we havent comprimised any clearance from factory.

I think ive made my decision. UMI....
Why? Because of the number of welds. If you see the weld locations (main points), the UMI is attached to the body over a larger surface area. Both can be stitch welded along the floor pans, and both have no clearance issues with virtually any exhaust.

As well, i like the bulkiness of the UMI, call me stupid but they just "seem" stronger. Again this is TOTALLY a personal opinion, but i like the bulky look.

Stronger is "subjective" however, because if you think about it, nearly any SFC is strong ENOUGH to do the job.

Also worth mentioning, Spohn will ship using UPS and for canadians US Air Mail, and BAX Global. UMI will ship with UPS and UPS or USPS to Canada.

Spohn costs $195 for SFC and UMI $199 for hard tops. For canadians, if shipped UPS, you pay the shipping, the tax, and $70 for UPS to sign ONE form for brokerage. With USPS canadians only pay Tax and Shipping.

So i think UMI will come out cheaper in the end. (I havent tried Air Mail, but iwould assume its expensive.)

But again, both products are extremely well made, and i am still doubtful a little about my decision. A coin toss is probably the best way to go if you cant decide, i doubt either will make you unhappy.

Azrael91966669

i would say alstons because they hook directly to the frame rails instead of haveing a bar shoot off to hook to it

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I'm surprised no one has said Alston's + Spohn. You can do it. It's what I'm gonna end up doing.

Azrael91966669

but if you where to add to differant sfc then why not instead just do a 6 point cage would be just effective if not more 2 sets of frame connectors is also alot more money then most people want to spend
these cars may be unibodys but there not that weak
most people just end up welding tubes along the pinch weld apperently it works and the cost isnt much for 2 long 95 inch tubes of steel

but still even that dosnt connect the front and rear subframes only the alstons do that directly
welding anything to just the floorboard seems like a mute point as these floorboards are the weak points anyway

i would say alstons and then a umi trans crossmember then you have everything attached with stonger steel

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

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426 Wedge

Too bad UMI doesn't make 3 point SFC's for 3rd gens. like they do for the 4th gen cars. To me thats the ultimate SFC!! I would have bought it in a flash. Hint, Hint

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

If I remember correctly, I beleive you can get the UMI's $20 cheaper if you get them bare and not coated. You will have to grind the powdercoat off were you weld.

Also, the UMI's look like a good place to use a floor jack along the length of the car.

Just a few points to think about.

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

Well, I personally will be running two sets because I have T-Tops, and I think a full cage ruins T-Tops. Yea, with some cages you can still get them out, but you'll have those huge bars there. If I had a hardtop car I'd cage it no questions asked. But I like my "roof."

Dr G

That's what I have! Just be aware that 'off the shelf' exhausts are unlikely to work!

87 formy

Haha, ok, tell me this. Did you notice any difference after putting the second set of SFCs on? If yes, I may just have to copy you

Dr G

I installed them at the same time, and I am fully aware that it probably gives no real tangible additional advantage over just one set.

What I will say though is that SFC's make a massive difference, as does a steering brace/wonderbar and I would recommend that all Thirdgen owners buy a set of SFC's and a Wonderbar - regardless of which brand.

87 formy

Yeah, I hear that so much on this site it's not even funny. I have a set of UMI's sitting next to my christmas tree I think I'll spend what little cash I have left on lower control arms, since I'll have to take them off anyway to install the subframe connectors. No point in doing it twice.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

How do you figure "off the shelf" exhausts wont work ? Having both is no different than having one or the other. Though relocating the flange is a bit of a good idea with the alstons because the 3" ball flange will hit the subframe under a hard shift.

KYLE87

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online170

Got any pix of the two SFC's together? I for one have never heard of it. It makes total sense, just never occured to me.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I have Spohn, just need to get them installed. Any of them will be way better than stock.

If you're going with both sets of SFCs, just install a cage...lol. Two sets of SFCs = alot of weight. With a cage, you get the stiffness and added protection.

KYLE87

iTrader: (5)

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WillSpeedy

I have a vert so I've got Alstons from TDS. Night and day difference in a vert. Everyone should get them(SFC's).

Oldred

Alstons for my vert. It's like driving a different car.

gtaproject

I have Alstons bolted in, ready to weld. I gotta say, I wasn't overly impressed with the fitment and the install was a pain in the ***. I took me a while (a lot of grinding and pounding) to get the front passenger side to snug up to the rail, and its still not perfect. With the bolts and the welds (where it can be welded), it should be fine, but I expected it to be much easier given what I've read. Maybe my expectations were too high regarding install or I have frame alignment issues because my car is 20 years old and a t-top, 5-speed car and been through heck and back (no accidents, just unaffectionate previous owners). Although I'm not officially voting for Alstons, I did vote with my purchase. If I had to do it again, I might go another way.

Oldred

I had mine installed by Alston I just left my car there and came back in the afternoon and they were done ...all welded and the paint touched up...Different car

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I havent seen a set yet that werent just as you describe, the cups dont fit the frame rails right, the design is nice, but they just dont fit right on out of the box, I wouldnt let that keep me from buying another set as i've owned two sets and installed a set on a friends car also. However I believe the next thirdgen I buy will be getting them from S&W, they are a very similar design, but the ends look like they'll be a lot easier to get to fit properly. And it will also get a set of spohns in addition, cant complain any on the installation of the spohns.

gtaproject

I drove the car yesterday with the connectors only bolted in, and it felt great. I have a wonderbar, sway-bar bushings and 1LE end-links on the way. I also have new stock springs to install (the shop can do the fronts). Should be a new car and I'm happy with the Alstons performance-wise now that they are in. I only wanted to give a heads-up for those thinking the install was as easy as an oil change. I would have an infinitely easier time if I did another install, but the first one caught me slightly unprepared and is probably more work than the connectors that run under the rockers.

chevyowner02

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x2

racing geek

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It is between UMI and Spohn for me and I see all these pics of the welds and under car shots but what about side shots from a distance? I've heard they stick down real far and you could easily see them as you walk up to the car. I have a IROC with the gfx and was wondering if they would stick out the bottom of the car.

I like the stock look with extras tucked away.

KYLE87

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racing geek

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Slow_90_Firebird or something like that has some red UMI sfc's on his non-gfx firebird. He started a thread about it so you can see some side shots there.

Here is a link:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...onnectors.html

KYLE87

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krisb410

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I got the Alstons because a traded them (they were brand new) for spare parts I had layn around. You can see them from the side if your standing at a distance. But unless you know what your looking at, they look stock. They make a night and day difference in the way the car feels. Much more stable.

I have also added a factory wonder bar, Eldelbrock 3 point strut tower bar, Spohn upper strut mounts, UMI tunnel mounted tq arm with a heavy duty transmission cross member, WS6 frt and rr sway bars, poly/rod ended LCAs and panhard bar. Koni Yellows, and 295 tires on the rr, 275 on frt.

All I can sway is

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

UMI Is my choice, I have a set in my garage waiting to be installed, and I have UMI sfc, lca, stb, relo brackets, on my wife's '00 pewter T/A.....

UMI has great producks I will be outfitting my car with all UMI stuff.....They are the shiznit!!!!!!!

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

you can see the Spohn's from the side too...I have no complaints about them otherwise




I have a crappy monitor here and I can barely see it. those on better screens should be able to see the red between the yellow arrows easily. That red is spohns SFC. Yes they are tucked as far up as they go. I really dont think you can go wrong putting any of the 3 on your car. anything is better then none at all.

Oscar

My Alstons SFC's we're the biggest noticable improvement I've done to my chasy. I did not do them myself but I did watch while the guy at my exhaust shop put them in. He basically had to disconect from my right side header to fit under the dual cats and pipe. The SFC ends slipped right into the front and rear frames on both sides. Then he just began welding away. The install went pretty easy.

IMHO it seems to me that a tube/circular design like the Alstons would be stronger than a square design, structerly speaking in an automobile application. I studied Architecture and structural engineering was madatory studies. A circular design has a more equal distribution of strength in load bearing and twisting forces. A square design has weak points in the flat parts towards the middle, the center point being the weakest. That is why "I" beams are designed as such. Roman, and other architectural structures, used arches to hold bridges and other massive structers. In the real world, with out calculating stresses from the vehicles flexing and other forces, both designs are probably so much stronger anyways that it wouldn't matter whether you used a circular or square design. I know cars are different but the behavior of metals is the same for any application. Just my opinion.