TA

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty sure that I am just loosing fuel over the pickup during hard cornering. A sustained hard Right turn and the engine sputters and dies just when I need to be gassing it through the corner. It only does it when it has 1/4 tank of fuel or less. Very irritating.

Any ideas or fixes?

Thanx

Troy
So Cal

Trickster

Running with a 1/4 tank of gas or less is asking for a new pump change. The in-tank pumps on our cars use the fuel to keep them cool. 1/4 tank of gas is not enough to keep them cool so they burn up rather quickly.

vsixtoy

I pretty much get that on lefts or rights if I don't stay above 3/8 tank. Its called cavitation. The fuel is being forced to the side of the tank away from the pickup. Anytime I'm under 1/2 tank, I don't screw around in a corner because it will unload on me an can induce a spin if it sputters.

ps- I have heard rumors that the 4th gen tanks will bolt right into our cars and are both plastic(lightweight) and baffled to prevent cavitation. 1LE 3rd gen tanks are baffled, but are steel.

DM91RS

My 91 has baffles and does not cut out as my previous 89 model did. I read somewhere that GM changed them all to this style in the early 90's.

TA

iTrader: (1)

As usual, good information, thanks guys!

BretD 88GTA

Correct. IIRC, all '90 and up have baffled tanks. GM replacement tanks will also be baffled.

The 1LE cars supposedly also used a special dual strainer pick-up so they could run low on fuel and not starve the pump. I've yet to confirm this.

It may be that these special fuel pump parts were only used on the actual race 1LE's. This is the case with the 18 gallon fuel tank.

Mikos_89

Bret,

I remember a debate on this very issue and the consensus was that no 18-gallon gas tanks ever existed on the 1LE's.

So, the SCCA actually changed out the 15.5 gallon factory tanks on the real 1LE race cars to specially made 18-gallon ones?

Was this 18-gallon tank ever available from GM to the general public? Just wondering.

BretD 88GTA

I've gone thru the GM parts list for 3rd gens. (thanks to Lon) and NO part number for an 18 gallon fuel tank is listed. The 1LE fuel tank shows the same part number as the other cars.

The only thing that was unique was the baffling, but as mentioned, GM later made the baffled tank standard equipment. I've seen 1LE cars in magazines where the owners like to brag that they have an 18 gallon tank, but to my knowledge no 1LE sold to the general public ever had an 18 gallon tank.

I've been told that the 18 gallon tanks only appeared on the cars that were used for sanctioned racing. Glenn Duensing probably has better info. on this.

It may be that the 18 gallon tank is just part of the 1LE folklore that's been perpetuated.

BretD 88GTA

**

89V6FBIRD

I think my 89 is baffled, because my car isn't as picky when it runs below 1/4 tank when comopared to the 85 T/A. Maybe I have a late 89?

TA

iTrader: (1)

Ok, this is great info. Did the baffled tank come in the V6 cars too? If so, I'm on my way to the junkyard. The baffles should keep enough fuel over the pump to keep it from overheating also.

Thax again guys!!

miacamaro305

my car does the same thing when i have a lil of fuel left, but i notice that my freinds 90 camaro doesnt have that problem.is this because those baffles thing ur talking about?

Mark_ZZ3

Reading the tech sheets from the players series, the fuel sock design/pickup allowed access to 20% more fuel. And if you take a 15 gallon tank, 20% more equals 18. This is one possibility where the 18 gallon tank rumour came from.

Also if you compare US gallon and Imperial gallon. An imperial gallon is 18.2% larger. The 15 gallon tank is measured in imperial gallons ... not a US gallon, hence the US cars do have an 18 US gallon tank. Again, this could be a source of where the mystery 18 gallon number came from. Also supports the statement from people that have put more than 15 US gallons into their car.

In all the technical sheets I have ... all of which is from GM, I have no reference to an 18 gallon tank, rather just many instances of the 15 gallon tank.

Now this is not to say that GM or other parties did not make one. I'm sure they looked at ways to increase the fuel capacity. I know of race prep that did heavy mods to the tanks to increase capacity without changing the tank.

Mark.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes to the V6 cars. . .

RBob.

vsixtoy

Mark, Mind if I ask what a "Players Challange Trans Am" is? Was anything special done to thesecars suspension wise over the factory performance packages- or where they merely like an "Indy Pace Car" type labeling?

Just curious, I have never heard of them.

Or where these full tube chassis race cars like the I.R.O.C.'s?

Mark_ZZ3

Player's Challenge was a race series run in Canada from 86-92 made up exclusively of Camaros and Firebirds. This was showroom stock racing.

The cars were batch built by GM for the race series and delivered to the teams around the March-April timeframe. There was between 7-12 races per year. In 1986, there was only an Eastern division, but in 87-92 there was a Western division added.

Each Year GM built approx 70 cars, with 50-60 being Camaros and 10-20 being Trans Ams.

The cars could not be altered in anyway, as such, the engines were all sealed from the factory, but only after they were dyno tested to ensure equal HP rating. In the earliest days, the engines had much hand assembly, but GM learned how to control tolerances (many as a result of this program) to the point in 92, any engine off the assembly line would be equally as good. Some of the "blueprinting" that went on with these engines was to only select cylinder heads from the same cast molds. This eliminated any flow variances. All cams were checked to ensure they were same. Fuel injectors were flow tested. And all teams used a GM supplied PROM chip.

In addition the the engines, the cars were delivered with special front and rear struts/shocks. The power steering pumps were a low volume pump.

Iroc's came with the WS6 sway bars (36mm vs 34mm).

Each year, there were other "neat" things on the cars. Brake cooling ducts for example.

The 1988 cars came from the factory with the PBR calipers and 12 rotors ... BEFORE the famous 1LE package came out. These cars were the "test" batch. GM of Canada prepared the front spindles, assembled the brakes and sent them to Van Nuyes to be installed on the cars.

Previous to 1988, GM used a similar 12 rotor (from the caprice), with a similarily modified spindle, but used a twin piston Brembo caliper. In 1988, there were able to source the PBR for the corvette which was a less expensive option.

The cars were all built to be equal. In 1989, when you ordered a player's car, you specified option code R7U and your only other choice was color. The cars were delivered with power windows, locks, mirrors, stereos, nice interiors, and of course 1LE brakes. In 1987 and 88, a team had a chioce to add a few options, but this really meant the cars weighed different. My 1987 car has NO options, but my 1988 car does. In 1988/87 you had to order option code A4U to get a "Canadian Players Car", and in 86 it was option code A4Q.

I'd have to guess that more than 1/2 of the cars have been destroyed. The other half are with the original owners, car enthusiasts like me, or just being driven by people who have no idea.

In 1986-1990, you had to order a BRAND NEW car. In 1991 and 1992, you could race a 1990 car, but with a new engine. So often the race teams would sell off the previous year's car and buy a new one. They would move the roll cages and exhaust and sell it.

The 1986 cars were perhaps the most unique. They were all L69 cars, which was not an option to the public. The cars were ordered from GM built at Norwood. When they arrived in Canada, the engines were swaped out with sealed 305 HO motors built at St. Catherines. The cars dynoed 180+ to the rear wheels! Not bad for an engine rated at 180 at the flywheel. The cars were prepared by Kerr Industries and had a roll cage installed, side exhuast and a racing seat. They were delivered to the teams and the series began.

I have literally 1000's of pages on the series, the cars, etc.

The equivilent series in the US was the SCCA Firehawk. The main difference was that they could modifiy the cars with in the rules. For example, the camaro's ran GTA wheels. They could change the struts and shocks. The Canadian series was very tight. No alterations allowed.

Both series contributed to the 1LE brake package, the baffled fuel tank, better shocks, and so on.

Mark.

vsixtoy

That you for the insight. I never knew of such an option or the racing series.

Mark_ZZ3

In my humble option, these cars are just like the late 60's Trans Am cars. Factory built and sponsored race cars.

Mark.

Mark_ZZ3

You can read more about them on my web page. Just pick the "Articles" section or the "Pictures"

http://members.shaw.ca/tunedportinjection/

You can also view an MPEG on the thirdgen.org that I created. Players Challenge Movies You might need to download a free player if you can't play it. Go here if you need it: http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Mark.

z28monster

iTrader: (1)

i hate it that mine cuts out when low on gas and cornering sharp but i kind of like it in a sence that it reminds me that i am very low on feul when it cuts out ont he slightist of turn i know i need to get to a store quick being a student and not having much gas money this past summer there were many times the cutting out saved me from running out of gas because i could tell that i was to low to go a certain distance if it cut out on the slghtest of turns... i remember many times i would have to chance it to make it to school and would drive 30plus miles in the RED lol and i actualy made it but when i got there i had topretty much keep the car going in a straight line or it would cut out till i got to a store to fill it up... i know now though that its bad on the feul pump so i try not to do that any more.... lol fun times:lala: