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Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

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Old 07-10-2008, 06:26 PM
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Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Hey All ,

Im not sure who everyone is on here.
i have a hunch some of you know me and i know you..

But figured i would say hi.
I am sean i have a black z28 84 camaro. It has been brought back to life a few times now.

I part out third gens from time to time and have different things available.

Looking for some help from someone local who can tune efi ecms / burn chips..

My Cars
84 z28 camaro. black (and white and red and silver and soon orange) lol<-- changing panels around getting ready for body and paint.
16" iroc gold rims on 245s,

Cars interior mostly restored.. New Dash, 145 speedo, hurst short shifter, 4th gen seats, converted to black interior. Rear window louvers,

iroc suspension package 36mm front and 24 mm rear with fast ratio steering box. spohn steering brace, aftermarket radiator, eibach springs, new shocks and struts, new brakes(stock <-- nxt to change), spohn sub frame connectors, edelbrock strut tower brace, and torque arm, lakewood panhard bar and lower control arms,
2002 ls1 alum driveshaft, solid motor and tranny mounts, all poly urethane bushings, t5 tranny<-- polly going to be the first thing to break

350 4 bolt rebuilt bottom, world sportman 2 heads port and polished, accell manifold and runners and ported plenum. 30 lb injectors, bbk tb 58mm, hooker comp headers, flowtech exhaust, msd box coil and distrib, accell wires,

has a 10 bolt rear end with auburn posi 373. trick flow cover to strenthen,

will have new crossmember and driveshaft loop soon,

Cant wait to drive this thing tuned.........

WHAT YOU GOT.. i will try to post a pic but not too sure how..
Old 07-11-2008, 09:04 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

that many views and no one ??? wow
Old 07-12-2008, 02:39 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

hey sfeeny,

Ive got a 87 Iroc which hopefully will run sometime tommorow!

and i have an 89 GTA 350 TPI, which will be a 383 hopefully in a little while.

whereabout in phoenix do u live? i live in mesaaaaaa
Old 07-12-2008, 03:05 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Yeah i know how you feel on the 87....

my 84 tpi swap is pissed at me....

Needs more tlc on timing and such.

I also have autoprom on the way, i have to custom tune mine...
so i might start offering some prom services in the valley..

I live in glendale

I know of a small group of thirdgens that get together over here.

Who else is out there and what you got???
Old 07-14-2008, 01:17 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Hi guys i got an 85 maro im trying to bring back to life 350 engine just rebuilt by yours truly. in the process of going standard from auto (t5), trashy interior i want to make it black, no A/C. high jackers in the back and polyuretain front sway bar bushings thats about it. Also in Mesa car being fix at my aunts in AJ
Old 07-14-2008, 01:58 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

sweet

i have some tuning stuff on the way and i have the help of my friend for the next two days .. hopefully the beast gets on the road..

Good stuff lets keep this up we got 3 now..
Old 07-14-2008, 03:37 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Currently have

a near stock 82 Z28 (swapped in a 700R4 and a built rear)
a 1988 GTA: forged 350 TPI trying to kill the original 700R4. When it goes, it will get a built one ready for either boost or nitrous
a 1990 IROC vert that is bone stock except the radio. With only 60k on the odometer, I haven't managed to convince myself to mod it yet.
1992 RS: forged 355, HSR, Procharger F1A, 12 bolt, built tranny, cage. Should fire it up in about 2 weeks now that the last parts are on the way. Then it's time to buy a cowl hood and get paint done.


So where's the west side 3rd gen meeting spot? I live in Peoria and might make it out some weekend.
Old 07-14-2008, 11:31 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Wow 4 third gens Nice..

I will be interested in the 1992 rs setup ...
are you going to tune the tpi???

I got my 84 fired up and running i took it around the block.
It drives fine till 2500 or so then power dies and bogs..
more kinks to work out i guess....
Old 07-15-2008, 07:11 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

The 92 is running an Accel DFI setup instead of the factory TPI computer. Lots of reasons for that but the main one being it was originally a TBI car and the harness had to be replaced anyway. We're finding the detail work involved in getting it finished is taking forever but we're still hoping to have it fired up and to the exhaust shop by the end of the month.
Old 07-15-2008, 04:39 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

92 Z-28 Z03 w/ 5.7TPI. Chandler, AZ.

Here's what i have done:

Redid the entire enterior, dyno mat, carpet, mats, vinyl seats, headliner(prob needs to be done again, ok for a first run, some **** put a sunroof on it and that made it very difficult), sail panels recovered, new east coast dash, His/Her shifter, All new componenets all around. All new springs, struts, urethane bushing, fuel pump, fan switch relay, strut tower brace, flex plate, SFC, tires, repainted rims, re-cleared bumper and spoiler. Re-ran air lines so vents actually work now and so does cruise control. Attempted A/C fix, will have to be done by a pro.

waiting to go in are: TPIS big mouth manifold and, polished and ported big tube runners, polished.ported plenum and polished fuel rails.

Last edited by Joker1232; 07-15-2008 at 11:48 PM.
Old 07-16-2008, 02:38 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I'm abit far from PHX but I go there occasionally. My car is an 88 305 tbi car with a ton of stuff done to it. Just read the sig. I'm debating on selling the ZZ4 heads though.
Old 07-17-2008, 05:58 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I have a Black 86 Iroc, .060 over 350, all forged roller motor, unfortunately with the stock TPI intake on it for now. At least till the BBK intake comes out or I get the $$ to put a superram on it. I put 1LE brakes on it, built the 700r4 with 4l65e internals, and a 2800 stall lockup conv. Ls1 driveshaft, Kenny Brown subframe connectors, and strut tower brace, poly bushings, Exhaust, headers etc.. Its all apart for paint and bodywork right now, and I hope to get it done soon. It's just been so damn hot out lately I've kind of run out of motivation for now. Whenever I finally finish, I'll have to meet up with you guys.
Old 07-18-2008, 10:35 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Originally Posted by sfeeney
Looking for some help from someone local who can tune efi ecms / burn chips..

Give Arizona TPI a call. They have a tuner named Leighton that did a great job burning a chip for the new motor in my 88.
Old 07-18-2008, 09:27 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Well i gave them a call and got some questions answered down there.
I bought a vss retrofit sensor .. they told me a chip would be 300 + a diag fee. so i decided to buy it my self

I decided to purchase the prom burning equiptment.
I am learning now but i will be able to hopefully help our phoenix community with tunes and fixes for ecm. vats fixes this that the other then in the future nice custom tunes..

I have my 84 tpi swap running finally HORRAY!!!!
It is not running optimal by any standard but it is moving in the right direction which puts a large smile on my face. lots of exhaust leaks from the quick welding job since it was not on a lift..

I need a new alternator now HOORAY MORE MONEY the 94 amp told me to go f*** myself.. It passes a test on it but cant support my new setup with the headlights and fans on LOL .....
Old 07-19-2008, 02:35 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Ok, I've got three of them; 85 T/A, 86 IROC-Z and a 90 rs (Future track car) The one that is currently running is the 86 IROC. mostly stock, but becoming a nice car.. I live in wittman and have been going to the car show at 91st ave and northern (northwest corner) for sometime now. It starts at around 7 pm and goes til around 930 pm on friday nights.
Old 07-19-2008, 02:43 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I'm in west Phoenix for the summer, then I finish school in the fall, after which I'll be in Phoenix again, so I think I count.

88 Formula 350, slowly rejuvenating the interior, planning on getting body panels realigned (last owner put his own fenders on, looks okay from 10ft).

Lower Engine: rebuilt 350 roller block, 2 bolt mains, ARP fasteners, Scat cast steel crank/rods, speed pro hyperuetectic pistons w/ moly rings.

Upper Engine: AFR 180 eliminator heads, stock cam (bad mismatch I know, but awaiting $$ and time), moly pushrods, magnum rockers 1.6in/1.52ex, Stealth Ram, stock TB, ls1 injectors, kirban FPR, MSD distributor.

Exhaust: Hedman LT's into single 3 inch exhaust

Cooling: Stewart stage 2 WP, Evans NPG+ coolant, 4 psi radiator cap, stock rad

Electronics / EFI controls: cs144 alternator, Craig Moates Ostrich ROM emulator,LC1 wideband controller, WB output patched into unused ADC port on stock computer and output on the ALDL port, accel super coil, msd 50 ohm/ft wires.

Transmission /rear end /suspension: 700r4 w/ corvette 2-4 servo, .500 TV boost valve, B&M supercooler, BW 9-bolt with 3.27's, stock aluminum DS, spohn rear LCA's,spohn wonder bar.

I'm always looking for deals on the random plastic pieces in the interior.

sfeeney - you might consider the cs144 (140 amp) swap, I love mine. I remember seeing a complete driver side alt/PS pump bracket on a Caprice (in a junkyard) w/ a CS144 on it.
Old 07-19-2008, 04:03 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

hey if you are using moates orstrch then you can prolly help me get mine going

do you use tunerpro?? are you using a sd or maf??

What is that swap??? please tell me i am about to buy a 140 amp for my car from summit so tell me i was thinking about going to junkyards tomorrow
tell me tell me
Old 07-19-2008, 01:08 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Lemme back up and ask if you are running the serpentine belt setup from the later 87-up cars? If you're running v-belts then what I mentioned doesn't really apply (you could still get a cs144 out of any late 80's to early 90's cadillac w/ the 4.9 and maybe 4.5 series of engines, theres a tag on the case that identifies a 140amp cs144 from a 120amp). You'd have to get a different pulley for v-belts as well.

If you're running the serpentine setup, gmpartsdirect.com sells an adapter bracket that allows installation of a cs144 where a cs130 used to be. I know I've seen caprices in junkyards before w/ either the adapter or a complete bracket. Hang on to the pulley from your old alternator as the cadillac cs144's have a pulley that sits out a little too far when installed on a thirdgen. I sold my cs130 w/o swapping the pulley and ending up having problems w/ the belt popping off. Once I got a different pulley that allow the belt to sit further back, I've had no problems.

If the 140 amp you're looking at from summit is in the same style case as your old alt, that would be a quicker upgrade as it's probably a direct bolt-in. I ended up using a cs144 cause I had a spare one and the cs144 can be upgraded to a rating of 200 amps w/ a kit from turbobuicks.com.

I'm running a 1988 MAF setup w/ the 1989 "6E" code that gets around the cold start injector (especially since the stealth ram has no provisions for one).

I use a licensed version Tunerpro RT. I'd recommend the LC1 if you don't have a WB. NAPA sells ecm pins, Craig Moates himself came up the "6E" code change that puts the WB output onto the ALDL datastream. A quick HEX edit of the bin will apply that.

MAF is more forgiving than SD as far as tuning. A factory tpi tune will be setup for either 19lb or 22lb injectors, so if you're running 30lb injectors then you'd probably make a big difference just by changing the flow constants in the bin.
Old 07-25-2008, 01:46 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I got a 1996 Silver Formula WS6 clone. I gutted the R/A hood and removed the fins to the airbox lid, LTs, flowmaster catback, cutout, a 3k stall sitting in the garage. Bald *** tires, a permanently bad alignment thanks to a previous owner accident-mod. HAHA!
Old 07-26-2008, 01:45 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Im out in QC and i have an 89 blue rs kinda down on its luck right now lol clearcoat peeling, primered panels and just rolled over the 200k mark, but now everything is starting to come back and its just rolling along now ^_^
Old 07-26-2008, 03:00 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Well my 84 is driviing now..

really sh**ty but driving

i replaced my alternator with the 140

i am on the mission of custom tuning it myself <LOL so much fun to learn

but the outcome will be a more reasonable tunning services in phx maybe
more to come on that..

So what about a Meet and greet here soon and lets get as many third gens together as possible.......

Maybe at a park or something and bbq and chill that would be sweet..
Old 07-26-2008, 03:30 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

well im happy to inform that the transmission swap was a success and now my car is standard now im having issues with emissions but that thats a different tread (https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...emissions.html)
Old 07-26-2008, 05:03 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

What part of emissions is it failing? I, unfortunately, have some experience there...
Old 07-26-2008, 03:55 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

i don't want to poison this tread with other tread stuff just click on the link on my previous post it will take you right there thanks for the help in advance
Old 07-26-2008, 06:35 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Thank you for not poisioning the tread.

I am all up for us to help but lets use tread links so other experts can help..

This thread is to try to bring out third gens in the phoenix valley and get us to all know each other.

So we can meet and greet and destroy the Imports together and the STangs..

So when are we all going to get together lets shoot for a few weeks
Old 07-26-2008, 09:13 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Good point. I will check out the other thread.... I am all for a meeting place. I might suggest cortez park... (northeast corner of 35th ave and Dunlap/olive in phoenix) Thats like a 30 mile drive for me but the place is cool....
Old 07-26-2008, 09:23 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Sounds like a good central location to me
----------
My roommate has a 92 rs that he switched to a 350 and 700 r4 with mild ported heads. a large cam, iroc suspension, tube rear suspensioon

flowtech headers and accell distrib and msd ign..
edelbrock 650 carb and holley street dominator
lopes nice and is fast

Last edited by sfeeney; 07-26-2008 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Old 07-26-2008, 09:36 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I have a feeling if we network, we will find that we have a lot of "talent" among us... I'm an auto electrician (Among other things!) I'd like to find a really good body/paint guy...
Old 07-28-2008, 12:27 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

i agree ....

i have access to alot of stuff..
i am struggling on tuning my aftermarket tuned port with my cam..
Old 07-28-2008, 12:52 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

im down for a meet because as you said we all have our own areas that we have run into troubles with on our cars and have most likely become very good at them, im pretty much good at wiring/electrical and anything else i need to do, not only that but spare parts cluttering up our garages could go to a better cause on another members car lol

Unfortunately for me, phoenix is a lil bit far, i mean unless we really got some commitment i wouldnt exactly wanna drive all that way, maybe to tempe but once i hit the 10 it becomes a gray area for me cuz im an east valley person lol For me a saturday would be ideal so anyone else up for it? like really up to it??
Old 07-28-2008, 11:39 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

well guys i was mapquesting the distance from queen creek to wickenburg and the park that drknow90rs_ss@y suggested its kind of in the middle there is also another one little bit south and closer to grand ave called cielito park i don't know what you guys think but if we are going to make members drive from all the way in wickenburg and queen creek we got to commit and be there on time and stay for a while you know make it worth the drive. my
Old 07-29-2008, 01:07 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Yeah, I'll definately be there as long as I know everyone else is really going to be there. I wouldnt like to get to the meeting spot and find that no-one else made it there as I'm standing there with my thumb up my a##!! Saturdays are good for me.... Just pick one... As for parts, I've got some and I need some...
Old 07-29-2008, 01:35 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

exactly, commitment is a must
Old 07-29-2008, 10:00 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Saturdays are good lets just don't plan too soon i haven't passed emissions there fore no plates and im out of the temp permits ill hurry up to get plates do
Old 07-31-2008, 05:14 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

ok i will take the lead on this and bring the southwest crowd together, since i sparked the thread, and i wanna see a parking lot full of third gens ready to scare or EAT the imports

( and yes i also own a subaru<--pretty wicked too, but i would like to think its a step up from a honda

First , everyone pm me with a tele, email , name , car, expertise, parts or help needs, any parts or special tools or facilities that could help the sw community.

I will put together an excel sheet and resend that to everyone..

If your not comfortable with leaving a number then put an email only..

I finally got my tuned port going on my z28 so HOORAY HOORAY ....
My gosh its a beast !!!

I will be out of town for 4-5 days but i was thinking lets shoot for sat the 9th of august. I will pick a central located park or meeting ground. Then run it by everyone.. <<sat 9th hows that sound...

This could be super wicked to get all the third gens in one area to take pics and meet each other..

I have basically built my z28 from ground up with carb and fuel injection now.
If there is ever anything you guys need or wanna bounce off me just let me know..
I will soon be offeriing TPI/tBI TUNING and chip burning and other assorted things like,
CUSTOM BOXED SUSPENSIONS, and CUSTOM SUB FRAME CONNECTORS..
all should be available for sweet deals to the sw crowd.

ALSO i know of a place that will give us a group discount to dyno our cars to see what you are really throwing down to the wheels.. If i can get about 5-6 peeps together i can get a great price and the more the cheaper....

I can run data logs on cars at that same time for us computer cars for members at that time..

There is some potential to do some cool stuff lets keep this thread going!!!
Old 08-04-2008, 01:04 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

ok maybe August 9th is me thinking this will happen quickly LOL

I rethought this so how about we shoot for the end of the month..

I have 2 members that pmed me with info for the contact list
Old 08-04-2008, 01:32 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

yeah i think we need to hold off til we get alot of people together, not only that but my camaro is in pieces right now so id have to show up in my lancer >_< as its going i should have it fixed around early september unfortunately
Old 08-04-2008, 04:01 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Originally Posted by Joker1232
92 Z-28 Z03 w/ 5.7TPI. Chandler, AZ.

Here's what i have done:

Redid the entire enterior, dyno mat, carpet, mats, vinyl seats, headliner(prob needs to be done again, ok for a first run, some **** put a sunroof on it and that made it very difficult), sail panels recovered, new east coast dash, His/Her shifter, All new componenets all around. All new springs, struts, urethane bushing, fuel pump, fan switch relay, strut tower brace, flex plate, SFC, tires, repainted rims, re-cleared bumper and spoiler. Re-ran air lines so vents actually work now and so does cruise control. Attempted A/C fix, will have to be done by a pro.

waiting to go in are: TPIS big mouth manifold and, polished and ported big tube runners, polished.ported plenum and polished fuel rails.
I know someone who is a master expert at ac if you need help joker let me know and i will get you in touch
----------
Originally Posted by 92WhiteZ28
hey sfeeny,

Ive got a 87 Iroc which hopefully will run sometime tommorow!

and i have an 89 GTA 350 TPI, which will be a 383 hopefully in a little while.

whereabout in phoenix do u live? i live in mesaaaaaa
I live in Glendale, What is wrong with your rides can i help you get them running?? let me know

Last edited by sfeeney; 08-04-2008 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Old 08-05-2008, 07:07 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Hey all! I am also a Phoenix thirdgen owner. Live in the North Valley in Glendale. Haven't really been active since I'm down on cash for a while. I'm really anxious to start getting things going on my car, but I'm just watching my poor car get destroyed by the sun. I have an 84 Z-28 with a stock 305 and 700R4. T-tops, Red with silver GFX. All stock, except my full exhaust. Jet-hot coated Hooker shorty headers and y-pipe, hi flow cat, 3-inch mandrel pipe to a borla XR-1. Sounds pretty good, but I want more cubic inches, compression, and a cam that scares little kids . Just set up a time and place, and I can roll the old girl out. I also have a parts list, I'll post it here, but please just PM me if you have the parts, so I don't dirty up the thread.

91-92 GFX good condition
91-92 Z-28 Hi rise spoiler
A fan switch for my electrical fans, have to run the A/C to run them otherwise
A 350 block 4-bolt main or 2-bolt, not bored out yet

Thats it for now, Thanks!

Kyle
Old 08-05-2008, 10:20 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

You know Doc, that's the first time I've seen those wheels on a Camaro and I have to say it looks good. Nice car.
Old 08-06-2008, 06:17 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

I live in Glendale, got a '91 TA stock 305 TPI engine and 700R4 with pacesetter coated headers. Currently it's stuck in the garage while I try to figure out why the voltage keeps dropping at idle. The battery is less than a year old and I just put a brand new alternator in it. So far no luck.
Old 08-07-2008, 03:02 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

well I diden't see a post on here from myself so I figured I better say hello As well I live in Queen Creek and have a 91 Formula most specs are in my sig I'm working on getting my new 58mm tb mounted and working out a couple of sensor signal issues with my MegaSquirt.
Old 08-08-2008, 01:42 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

hey any idea who owns the other birds ive been seein around here? theres the red one on ocotillio by the vet, then theres the 2 over behind checker and mcdonalds, ones white and the other is green im guessin they work over that way cuz i always see them parked, clean cars from what i see, i think one of them is a GTA, atleast i think it is cuz hes got the wheels lol both have the straight style tailpipes out the back
Old 08-11-2008, 07:16 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Sfeeney, check your PM's bud. Thanks
Old 08-12-2008, 02:35 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

BUMP..

about 5 or so of you have pmed me back .

Im going to put that list together soon. If anybody would like to be on it then pm me..

Lets get a date set for a meet and greet.. get these third gens together..!!!

Doc let me think about the motor core. i might wanna use it for my 383
Old 08-12-2008, 09:58 PM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Lol well if you don't use it for a 383, then I will. Thats what I'm looking for, hehe. Just lemme know man!

Oh and thanks robertfrank, I only did it because I got a great deal on the rims and tires from a 4th gen guy in the AZFBA. Then I had to buy the spacers to run em. If I would of done the research I would have never bought them ahaha. $250 on spacers, OUCH. But they turned out ok lol.

Last edited by DocHoliday; 08-12-2008 at 10:04 PM.
Old 08-14-2008, 12:52 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

ok for sure we should get all of our southwest thirdgens together at speedworld for the sept 20th fun and drag appreaciation night...

Im thinking we could get a small meet and greet going sooner but if not that is all good....

Im glad the SW guys are getting together
Old 08-14-2008, 12:58 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Im in Surprise and am interested in getting together. I have a white 92 RS 305 that I'm planning on changing out for a 383 long block.
Old 08-14-2008, 01:38 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

where is speedworld again?
Old 08-14-2008, 01:45 AM
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Re: Phoenix Third Gen's Post What you got and who u are..

Yea september 20th sounds good what time? and where is speedworld? never heard of it before. Sfeeney can you post directions or link to site.

Last edited by andresinibus; 08-14-2008 at 03:13 AM.


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