moneyz1

I wanted to no if u can switch out a 305 for a 454 and if you can what do you have to change on the car to make it work?

FireInMe17

Springs to support the extra weight is a must.

Shadow Z

iTrader: (2)

I'm pretty sure that small block and big block mounts are the same, so I imagine just the engine it's self of course, stronger springs, and a TH400 wouldn't be a bad idea.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You'll need a big block exhaust setup. I think they make headers for that. Otherwise you'll have to fabricate a y-pipe for some manifolds that are stock to big blocks.

But to answer the question, yeah, it will fit. its been done many times. Theres actually a whole thread devoted to it:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...swap-info.html

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

After you read the sticky about big blocks at the top of this forum, what specific questions are left unanswered?

moneyz1

Still wondering if I have to change the alternator and I no ima have to change my hood setup so it will close and fit do I have to change like my battery and struts to saport the new wieght. And shouild I change the stock carborator on the car and the heads on the motor will that do much of differnce fromt the stock,

camaronewbie

Battery is battery - why would that change?

Struts/shocks only change the recoil rate of the springs, springs hold the weight, why would shocks/struts change? Granted, your car needs new shocks/struts anyway if you haven't changed them, but has nothing to do with the motor swap.

A big block is a completely different motor, that includes heads - of course heads would change - you can't put SBC heads on a BBC!

You will definitely need a different (ie bigger) carb to feed a BBC. The whole entire motor is different - if it's attached to the motor, then it's different. Alternator and P/S pump the same, EVERYTHING else is different.

You should really consider making the car ready for a motor swap (especially a BBC swap) before you even think about the swap itself. If it's not been done yet, you need to redo the entire suspension (tie rod ends, ball joints, center link, idler arm, shocks, struts, springs, new bushings all around). Then your brake system needs overhauled, new pads, rotors, and rubber brake lines. Then, you need a built tranny to handle the new motor, either rebuild yours or buy new. Then you need a built rear to handle the new motor.

After you get all that done (minimum $5k spent), then you can think about a BBC swap.

Let's face it - it's a big waste of time/money to swap in a BBC, finally getting the motor to run, only to pull out of the driveway and find that either 1) the tranny won't hold, or 2) you grenade the rear end.

Everybody wants instant gratification, but no one prepares. Then, they sit on the porch with an empty wallet and a non-moving car in the driveway watching everyone that did prepare ride down the road.

moneyz1

So what engine would u recomend I put in then what one do u think would worth swaping in for the 305?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

If all you're wanting to do is upgrade from a 305, just do the best you can afford to do. Just realize that there's more to it than just bolting a bigger engine to the front.

Power and torque will blow up transmissions, blow up rear ends, twist the frame, and get you in trouble if you dont make sure your brakes and suspension will keep the car controllable with that kind of power.

If you want a drag strip car then the right generation big block would be a great move. I want a good handling road race car... so adding that kind of weight to the front end isnt worth it. I'd go with a Gen III or Gen IV smallblock. Some sort of LS if you're not familiar with that terminology. If you've got the money a 400+ cubic inch LSx will take you a whole lot farther than a big block in some ways.

It's not about swapping the "correct" motor in. The "correct" motor is the one that's in it now. It's about putting in parts that are correct for your needs and your upgrade parts.

moneyz1

Do you no were I can look to get and ls motor I no classic industries has them but idk if there good ?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You owe it to yourself to think about this a lot more than you have so far. I would wait atl east 6 months before you bought any parts to figure out what parts you need and what you want to do with the car.

You're in way over your head. Chill out and learn through osmosis for a while and you'll get an idea of what you need.

855speed

It certainly can be done. My Mom has one. Car is located North of Toronto Onatrio Canada. My Dad passed away in October and I inherited it. US EPA said it was unimportable so it will be sold in Canada. Asking $16, appraised at $25K. Going up to Canada next month to pull out of Hibernation.
Here are the engine bay pictures I had on file.

86mailman

I just joined. Im doing a 454 big block swap in my 86 camaro also. Ive always played with the trucks, now just wanting to build something different. Does anybody recomend a certian kind of rearend or can I stay with my stock one, keeping some sort of budget in mind?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You'll need an F-body specific Ford 9" or GM 12-bolt to hold a big block.

Or you can just stockpile the stock 7.5 inch 10 bolts and continuously replace them whenever you do hard launches on sticky rubber. They WILL last a little while... but only a little while.

The transmission is a different story. You're likely not gonna be able to get a 700r4 to hold up, kiss your overdrive goodbye. The options are Th350 or Th400 (both 3 speeds, one a "regular" car trans that can be beefed up, the 400 is the "truck" transmission for really powerful builds. the big block qualifies probably) or you can go with a T56 if you want to shift your own gears and want to risk blowing it up too. They're rated for 450 ft lbs for a 94-97 F-body T56. A 454 making 1 tq per cubic inch will hit that. But if it helps, any smallblock chevy trans will bolt to a big block.

86mailman

Ill probably go with the 400. I had a 700r4 behind this motor the whole time it was in my truck, and it held up pretty damn good from everything I put it through, thats saying alot. Anyway, what car or truck can I get this rearend from? I was told I can use the rear out of an explorer, just shorten one side.

daniel92345z28

here is my current set up 454 making 360rwhp and 450rwtg .t56with a stage 4 comp clutch. with a stock 10 bolt.has been holding up great no issues . i have always used the stock v8 springs ride height always seems to be the same currently using the eibach sportlines v8 springs

86mailman

nice set up daniel92345z28. Ill be there shortly. Anyway, i just got curious and took a look under my 86 z28 at the rearend to see what will need to be done, and holy ****. Im used to just leafsprings and shocks. A whole other animal this is! Im about to put my hands on a ford 9''. So all information passed on will be greately appreciated.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The torque arm setup we have is a very good suspension setup, but for big power levels you'll definitely want to address a few things. You may want to look into a jegster torque arm setup if you can install it. High power levels can break the tailshaft off the transmissions. You will also need to get a special housing for the 9 inch that will bolt to our setups. They need torque arm mounts, the right LCA and spring perches, etc. You can get an empty housing for a fairly reasonable price, and if you have a junkyard 9 inch you can swap over all the innards and save a lot of money. Also, research lower control arm relocation brackets.

91z28383

I just did a 454 swap too. Spohn.net They have really nice stuff. My entire suspension is spohn. They are extremely nice guys and easy to talk too. Their prices are competative. Hey Daniel, did you change out your radiator? It looks stock in the pics. Is that going to be a problem? Nice setup btw.

daniel92345z28

yeah it is the stock third gen radiator with the ls1 radiator.running great right now.
before i had the same radiator with a mechanical fan never got hot it stayed at 185 all day.
with the electric fans it goes to 200 then the fans turn on then back to 185.

91z28383

How much hp do you think you have?

91z28383

What hood are you running?

daniel92345z28

360 rwhp and 441rwtg
here the link to my old set up;https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...rwhp-dyno.html

should be over 400 now .gonna re-dyno it with the new set up

daniel92345z28

running a 2.5 inch cowl hood but im gonna need a 4 inch hood to run the single plane intake with a filter .trying to get a carbon fiber hood

91z28383

Sorry about all the questions...I'm itching to finish mine. I just finished up the wiring tonight. It's a 496, 13:1 comp, dart pro 1 heads, .740 lift cam with a dominator.

daniel92345z28

oh yes telll me more.
sounds like a killer set up what are your hp goal.

daniel92345z28

any pics

91z28383

The motor should make 750hp. I'm running a th400 with a brake and 5000 stall. It's a "strange" rear 4.10 gears with a spool.

91z28383

I'll send some pics today. I don't have any on my iPad yet.

daniel92345z28

alright sounds good cant wait to see what it does .

91z28383

Me too.

86mailman

alright, I just bought a 9'' for my 86. Couldnt pass it up. Everything has already been done to it, detroit locker with 4:11 gears, moser 31 spline axels, disc brake conversion kit. All for 600 bucks. It is a little shorter than I wanted, but looks like a mini tub is in my future. Anyway, what is your input on me putting a 4 link in the 86. Ive never installed one before, so alot of questions will follow. Im sure it can be done, just never seen one installed in a 86 camaro before. whatcha think!!!

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Not many people here have bothered to seriously alter the suspension design for four links. There are a couple of guys with ladder bar type setups but either way it requires a lot of custom fabrication.

As I said, the torque arm setup is a pretty good suspension, but for high power levels you want to optimize a few things and avoid ripping the transmission in half with the tailshaft mounted torque arm.

Mustangs use a 4-link setup, and many of them go through a lot of extra trouble to add things like panhard bars, and even convert to a torque arm suspenion to get away from the drawbacks with that design.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...uspension.html

Note AlkyIROC's post, and he has a 9 second BBC thirdgen: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...353-post5.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...uspension.html



You're better off using that 9-inch and putting all of its innards into a housing designed for an F-body. Will be way cheaper, easier, and probably perform a lot better too.

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...sing-Only.html

These setups usually work with the 89-97 rear disc brakes. There are some very trivial differences from the 89-92 to 93-97 stuff, but they are mostly cosmetic.

http://www.swracecars.com/store/Bolt...29=45-450.aspx

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...e_gmfbody.aspx

86mailman

well, alright then! Back to the drawing board. yall boys know what you're talking about. Looks like a 4 link is out of the question. so, what i should do is get new axel tubes and axels and stick with my stock width? Ill just cut off everything on my stock rear Ill need and weld it on my 9''. Ill still need a torque arm adapter though. Boy, this is starting to get expensive and I havent even taken the weels off the car yet. O well, got to pay to play right. Anyway, thank you guys for all the help and advise.

86mailman

couple questions. What kind of headers are you using? Is that your stock radiator? I also noticed you ditched the dizzy and went with coil packs. Hows that working out for you? Last but not least, your setup looks awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

daniel92345z28

well thank you for the positive feedback.the header are ed quay replicas .had a local race shop make them for me.the radiator is a stock third gen radiator with 4th gen camaros radiator fans.i got tired of my hei not running right so i went with a msd 6010 box with the coil per cylinder.so far im very happy with the tune ability of the msd box.idles way better has the two step rev limiter.nitrous retard.also has a map sensor.so its really neat.
so im glad i changed it over.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

If you want you can tub it and get a narrower axle housing made. Just depends. But all those good parts in your current 9 inch can be used. Its probably the best cheap way to get a 9 inch setup. Buy a donor one and use it for parts. You've got the Moser axles so Im sure someone will want to buy those if you dont use them.

The other problem is that your axle housing doesnt have a torque arm mount. That's why you have to buy the retrofit axle housings. So even cutting off axle tubes wont get you very far. But you seem to be okay with fabrication, there are people who have come up with interesting solutions for stuff like that. See if you can do a search for torque arm mounts on ford rear ends. I know guys have converted Ford 8.8's for our cars because tehy couldnt afford a 9 inch, so go see what they've done. If you can fabricate you may not need the special housing, but you WILL need a torque arm mount.

Here are a few pics and links:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...arm-mount.html

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...-8-8-swap.html





And theres thess things that currie sells:

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...E.aspx?id=1769

http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...e.aspx?id=1595

You need to check and see if your new axle is too narrow to fit the stock lower control arms, but if you can fab you can probably come up with something.

An interesting google hit you may find useful:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/3rd-...-9-inch-15759/