3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

So in the last month or so I had recently replace my 5.7L engine with a brand new rebuild. Everything it stock except its bored .030 over and I had my heads redone. My problem is it was hard for me to start my car when it was cold. I took it to my mechanic and he said he found the problem to be my fuel pressure regulator.

He said that the diaphragm in my regulator had broken so it was flooding my engine making it hard to start warm/cold. When I asked him how to replace it he said it was going to ballpark in the range of 650-800!!! That's a lot of money to replace a regulator is it?

My questions is since I have a 1 year/ 12000 mile warranty, would this be covered in it? Is the fuel pressure regulator something that you would need to replace whenever you rebuild an engine? If so I can go to the guy and tell him that he needs to fix it under the warranty issue. If not, how much would you think you would be charged to get this fixed (im asking all you mechanics out there). Thanks.

-3rd

chads89ta

iTrader: (6)

it should only take about an hour to replace a regulator, so maybe with parts and labor total around 250 tops

afremont

That's pretty steep. The parts (diaphragm, gaskets) should cost less than $100. Since it was recently assembled, it should come right apart with no problems. Should only have to remove the plenum to do it. I don't think you'd need to loosen the fuel rails or runners, so I don't see why he wants so much. I guess he thinks you have too much money.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I dont really seem to understand this either. I was reading my handy dandy Chilton manual for my Firebird and its like 7 steps to take it off and put the new one on. Maybe ill just take it and tackle it myself. Any one have any luck with a adjustable fuel pressure regulator? like the BBk or something?

-3rd

afremont

The BBK thingy is just an adjustable cap, it doesn't come with a new diaphragm.

CBR1000RR

iTrader: (1)

Labor time is 4.6 hrs to replace the regulator. At my shop it would be $525 to replace the regulator, thats parts and labor. That labor time seems alittle high to me, but that's what's in the labor guide.

afremont

What does the book say about hours to replace the injectors?

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Well as far as labor goes I called the Rydell dealership by my house plus some of the local shops and they all say labr is about 350-400. Rydell quoted me with an OEM replacement at 663.25. As far as taking it off CBR1000RR, do I really need to take off my fuel rails and disconnect all my injectors, or can I just take off the upper plenum and replace it that way. The Chilton manual states nothing about taking out all the injectors or the fuel rails, I also have a service manual I ordered form GM and it says nothing about taking off the fuel rails? Thanks.

-3rd

closer

By the picture in your sig.. we are talking about a TPI right? I'm changing mine right now. I ordered the diaphram through O'rielly auto parts. It'll be in tommorow and cost me $67 bucks. As to get to it... All i did was take the bolts out of the upper plenum and unhooked the sensors and throttle cables. Mine pulled right up outta there(But I have brand new intake gaskets). Then out of all the tools I already have... I had to pay $21 for a set of 6 anti-tamper spanner sockets to remove the regulator cover(you'll need a T10 size). Be careful whenn you pull the last few screws out... It's got a little spring tension behind it.
Overall I didn't think it was that hard to do. And it only took me 25minutes. But I have previous experience on working on cars. And I had BRAND NEW intake gaskets! It makes a big difference on time and ease of getting the upper penum off.
Oh.. and the diaphram acts as the gasket for the regulator. So you should only need those sockets and the upper plenum gaskets.
Hope this helps....

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

The T-10 socket are those little star looking sockets right? Cause if thats the case, then I have those. As far as the gaskets go, I just got my engine rebuilt so I dont think i need new gaskets, right? A guy I work with is going to automotive school so hes gonna help me out he said. Hes got a Lancer, but its okay, I already beat him

91RS5speed

The t-10 is also a security bit if i remember right. Also the holly adjustable reg is 100 bucks from summit and im pretty sure it came with a new diaphragm. If you include a new gasket set for the tpi intake they are like 30-50 bucks too.

So $150 bucks in parts and about 2-3 hours of time.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

wow, I can't believe what I'm hearing! $500+ for replacing a fuel pressure regulator???
I definitely need to get into the auto repair business and become a millionaire!

anyways, like closer said, it'll take 25mins, no more than 26mins and thats if you stop and go to Pizza Hut and come back...

you'll just have to loosen 10bolts from the plenum. 4 for the throttle body, and 8 for the runners (4per runner set). Then unplug the vacuum lines from the back. Also remove the 3bolts holding the throttle cable bracket. Thats it. Lift of plenum. Since it was just rebuild, it should slide right off and not need to worry about sticking old gaskets. Like stated above, remove the perimiter bolts around the FPR and remove torn diaphragm and replace with new and reverse the process.
Its not hard at all, just a handful of bolts to keep track of.... Here is a pic of what you'll see under the plenum and the 4bolt holes on one set of runners...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Well im still curious about my runner gaskets? Do i need new ones since i just got my motor rebuilt or should i say F*** it and buy new ones anyways. As far as the FPR goes, I went ahead and ordered the Holley Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator off of Summit.com. (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-512-501/). Will this work? Anyone had any luck with it so far?

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

that should work just fine. I was going to get that one but found this one a bit cheaper. It installs just like mine above... And no, you should not need new gaskets. But if you tear it or damage it, you'll need new ones. But unless you try really hard, you probably wont damage them... worst comes to works, you buy a new set of FelPros at the autoparts store for about $15 (I got mine for about $12 at Oreillys)...

kozman

I replaced my EGR valve(next to regulator) in about an hour and that was my first time tackling that kind of project. Any guy with a little bit of mechanical ability should knock this out pretty easy, give it a shot, you will save a lot of dough.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but im was still wondering about whether or not if I need to tale off my fuel rails and my injectors to replace this part? The fuel pressure regulator is a the actual piece that broke and the adjustable fuel pressure is a cap you swap out to adjust the fuel pressure in your car. I know my diaphragm broke and this AFPR comes with new on so I don't think I need to follow the instructions to take out the whole thing, just only til the top part.

CBR1000RR

iTrader: (1)

All you need to do is take the intake plennum off, then take the housing off the fuel preesure regulator and replace the diaphram. Then just put it back together. You don't need to remove the fuel rails, injectors, or the runners. For some reason the labor time covers removing all that stuff. Thats why it cost so much.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

no, you don't need to remove the fuel rails at all. Honestly, you're trying to make it more complicated than it really is. The fuel pressure regulator just sits on the box. The AFPR makes the top of the box. The diaphragm is in the middle, sandwiched between the hat (afpr) and the box...I found a picture of the the Holley unit AND a better angle than mine. I think the fittings on my fuel rail (the fuel pressure sender for my guage, and nitrous hookup) is distorting the picture. Here is EXACTLY how yours should look


Here is a pic of the diaphragm


Here is a pic of the diaphragm sandwiched between the AFPR and the "box" base...



P.S. That Holly unit should come with plenum gaskets to use if need be, so you don't have to worry about purchasing them...

91RS5speed

Im running the Holley one and have been for about 4 years or so. No issues with it two things you might want to think about that i haven't seen yet is the t-10 on the fpr has a dot in the middle for security bit of some type. Also you might want to get a fuel pressure gauge you can put on the shrader(spelling) valve to set the fuel pressure correctly.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

I don't recall having to use any sort of special torx bit replacing my unit... I forgot to mention, yeah, you might have to get a fuel pressure gauge!

afremont

The Torx screws on my regulator have a little pin sticking up in the middle of the hole. You have to use a bit that has a hole drilled down the center.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Im not trying to make it seem harder than it really is, just that everyone i talked to, minus my friend whose going to automotive school, says you have to take off the rails. Now, for the pressure regulator, I ordered this off Jegs already.

http://www.jegs.com/i/DFI/310/74726/10002/-1

And when i get it fixed, whats normal operating pressure? No mods done on my car so please take that into consideration.

-3rd

CBR1000RR

iTrader: (1)

About 43 PSI with the vacuum line disconnected. You don't need to take the fuel rails out.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

yup 43psi. And no, there is no need to remove the fuel rail...unless you're looking into making some money on unsuspecting TPI owners... On a different note, however, I believe you do need to remove the fuel rail on a LT1 or newer vehicles...but NOT on TPI...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

What does that mean when the vacuum line is disconnected? How do I go about checking it when its like that?

chads89ta

iTrader: (6)

the bits you are looking for are called tamper proof torx bits. make sure you get straight on them.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

a couple of things on the car require the use of vacuum (or "sucking" force). The fuel pressure in our cars is determined by how much you block the line. The more you block the return line, the more pressure builds up. Thats how vacuum affects the fuel pressure. You only get vacuum at idle and low throttle times. At higher throttle and WOT, there is no vacuum. When there is vacuum, it sucks the diaphrahm upward thus letting more fuel flow back to the tank and reducing the pressure. At as you increase throttle the vacuum gets lower and lets go of the diaghrahm and it gets in the way of the fuel flow and starts to "block it" and increases pressure....

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Ohh I see. So go ahead and put the new FPR on as well as the fuel pressure gauge, but don't connect the vacuum hose and set the pressure to 43 PSI. This makes it seem like its WOT, that way when i do reconnect the vacuum hose and I drive it, it will operate at the correct pressure, correct?

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

yup

afremont

I don't know who you've been talking to, but they're wrong. I just replaced my injectors and I don't see any need to remove the fuel rail to change the pressure regulator.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

All the mechanics I called to get prices told me that. The only person who didn't tell me that was my friend. Apparently it's a flat rate labor charge of 4.5 hours, and the labor should include changing that stuff out.

all4u

Wow, I wish you were closer to IL, I'd change it for $50 and I'd still be ripping you off. Seriously though, if you can put gas in your car, do your oil change, and tighten your header bolts, you can do this job. Changing spark plugs is harder than this, I'm not kidding or trying to hurt your feelings. This is one of those jobs that looks hard but after you do it, you smack yourself in the head and say "DUH!" that was easy.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but
1.make sure your engine is cold, preferrably before you start it up for the day
no fun working on a hatass engine...
2.number one will also ensure you don't have any fuel pressure on the line. If you turn the car on even once, it'll leave pressure on the line and spew gasoline all over the manifold.

I wouldn't even put the key in the ignition if you can avoid it because if you turn the key to the "on" position (the same position where you're able to lower the windows and turn the radio on) it'll prime the fuel pump and add pressure to the line. There is a fuse right by the battery in your Firebird thats the fuel pump fuse. You can unplug it right before you turn the ignition, that way it wont build pressure...

Alain2

From Holley:

Remove he gas cap from the fuel tank and pull the fuel pump fuse from the fuse box located under the hood. Now try to start the motor. This will let the fuel pressure drop, preventing excess fuel spillage when removing the regulator cover.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Okay guys so I swapped over my new AFPR and i have everything buttoned back up. My questions is, does anyone know the tq specs for the bolts around the AFPR and the specs for the runner bolts as well as the specs for the throttle body bolts. Also, I don't need to put any kind of lock tight on that do I? just torque specs right?

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

I haven't used locktite and been fine. As far a torque spec... I just play it by ear. And make sure there aren't any leaks. Its aluminum so its easier to strip the bolts...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Yea I just figured that out. ****!!!! Anyone one know where i can get some replacement bolts for this now?

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

which ones did you strip? either way they sell the bolts in autoparts stores or any home improvement stores. They are metric I believe. I swapped out all my stupid torx bolts for regular allen head bolts...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Awwwww thank god. I stripped out two on accident on the FPR cover. But if I can go to Kragen or Lowes and grab some that would be super awesome. Do you know the size btw?

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

honestly, not of the top of my head. Just take one of the good bolts with you. I know Lowe's have them in the shelves you pull out, thats where I got mine. I didn't see any torx though only hex and allen. But the allen's were black so I got those. I know Lowe's also has those test tablets where you can find what size they are by trying different threads...

gurkgurkgurk

yeah those bolts are a POS. E-torx is what theyre called i believe. ive been thinking of tackling this task aswell since i had to replace my egr and i saw the FPR was right there, but i never understood how you adjust your fuel pressure.

afremont

Allen wrench thru the vacuum port I believe. I think the Holley has an external ring that can be turned.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

I like the Holley design best, since its easier to access. My BBK has a bolt on the top of the "hat" and its a BITCH to get to with the plenum on...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Yeah hopefully that psi tuning dial will help me get my psi set quickly with minimal effort. shoulf finish project tomorrow, my first day off work in awhile.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

have fun. Take some pics for us!
a few final key points:
1.make sure you disconnect AND reconnect the vacuum lines on the back of the plenum (specially the big one going to the brake booster)
2.also don't forget to unplug and plug in the AIT (air intake temp) sensor on the bottom of the plenum
3.Adjust FPR with vacuum line off...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Yessur. My first order of buisness is to figure out how to get those two stripped screws out of my AFPR!!! im such a dumbass. I got new ones. i just cant put them in now.

HCR13

iTrader: (5)

as in you stripped the star out of them? I stripped out a torxs screw on the plenum. What I ended up doing is getting my dremel and cutting the head down the middle so I could get a flathead screw driver to take it off. You might be able to get a pair of pliers and just twist them off...

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

Okay so i unplugged the vaccum line from the AFPR and the plenumn, but im getting no reading on my actual guage. Does anyone have any experience with the accel fuel pressure guage? I cant seem to figure this part out.

SBlackfoot

Just to clarify, the engine should be running to check the fuel pressure. I suppose you could cycle the key on and off several times to build up pressure for a ballpark value but ideally she needs to be fired up and idling. The gauge will read zero if you just hook it up and do nothing else.

And a note for the Holley unit, if that's what you wound up with: You'll probably need to file the underside of the plenum a little to clear the large **** on the regulator. It's in the directions and mine wouldn't fit without it.

3rdgenred

iTrader: (1)

But it is running and still nothing. I screwed her onto the schrader valve as tight as I cold get it but I didn't get a reading at all. Any suggestions.