mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

295/50/16 is a 28" tall size available in a BFG T/A tire for the 16" wheels. it's a little balloon-y on the 8" wheel, but not too bad.

TB2

iTrader: (1)

I've looked into these as well as running a drag radial which I could get taller as well. But either option wouldn't look good with a stock height front tire. What I have works well. It hooks well on the 26" slick, and though a 28" slick would probably see a slightly better 60ft. My 60ft average is in the high 1.4sec times now. But to make a car that works well on the track as well as the street and a road course, it's all about compromise. One thing for sure is it's a ton of fun being able to drive all over town with a 10sec. N/A smallblock!

FRMULA88

I have to say the 27.5X4.5-15 M/T front runners look pretty darn good !
we shall see how much clearance I have when I get the car back on the ground.

I am still waiting on my carrier gear swap once I have that back in I can install the new 28x10.5s and see what I need to clearance.

For sure I need to remove the rear bump stops now, perhaps that will be it. My 26x10s fit pretty well with just some BFH work to the lower corner of the wheel houses.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

pictures?

FRMULA88

I will get some when the car is sitting on the ground again.

FRMULA88

Worked on the car and cleaned up the garage today.

I started on the driver side. I removed the bump stop and cut the bump stop hump out of inner wheel house.. some hammer and dolly work and it look like the 28X10.5-15 has plenty of room with about 1" of clearance.

So far so good, on to other work until I get my carrier back.

I replaced my OEM mini-starter with the new MSD mini-starter.. ALL I can say is WOW what a difference having the right starter on a high-compression motor makes ! The OEM mini struggled to turn this thing over... granted it was 14 years old.. but this new part.. what a difference.

I then installed a 1" HVH carb spacer... this little bugger was good for 7HP on the dyno... I'll take it !

Not bad for a Saturday afternoon wrenching session..

Next task is to swap in the 140 MPH speedo cluster and clearance the passenger side wheel well.

Taking a break tomorrow to enjoy Easter with the family.

FRMULA88

Not much to it just a little time with a cut-off wheel.

FRMULA88

I have also decided since this is not a street car anymore the rest of the exhuast system is coming out.

The mufflex 4" collector pipe and the massive flowmaster muffler have lived a nice 14 year life but it's time to go ! last season I ran open headers with collector inserts.. all this dead weight is along for the ride at this point.

Getting rid of it should drop another 30-40# (or more) out of this thing !

if I need to kill some more sound some bullet mufflers with turn downs will suffice at this point.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

i see your running SSM lift bars/ladder bars

but i dont see your LCAs? are you running without them?

FRMULA88

I have been using the SSM bars & SFCs since 1998 !

The LCAs, Torque Arm, and rear sway bar are not needed when using this system. as per the SSM installation guide which I kept all these years.


The axle housing is braced by the SSM bars to a cross member which is welded the to SFCs. the SSM bars have a clevis (pin) connection at the cross member to allow the axle housing to pivot

The cross member and SSM bars work in unison to change the instant center of the axle on acceleration which plant the tires to the pavement.


The LCAs and torque arm un-necessary.


Simple & effective, too bad SSM went out of business.

the 60' times dont' lie !

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I have had the same SSM set up also. And I do like them. This is my 2nd one on my car. The first one was on the 7.5..the 2nd one is on the 9". Have had them from 1993. Had ssm send just the arms. For the 9" as every they was all set up..

according to Southside machine you are to leave the lower control arms in place..its in the install paperwork... like on all ladder bar systems..added to any car with control arms.
the last time I dealt with them was in 2002.
Having a newer set made that look more like the Lakewood style of ladder bars.would like to shave off the steel to get about 10 lbs less....and rod ends added..

FRMULA88

Have you tried them without the LCAs?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

No. I have never tryed them with out the LCA's
DID ASK about it ...was told could/might stress one side.or lead to a failure.in a perfect world and a perfect weld.it might never happen...but I dont want to take that chance..I got that answer from Lakewood. And Southside machine...if its working for you fantastic. I was just giving a bit of info.

I know some guys I think that the lower control arms would bind with the lift bars. But the lower control arms are now just there to do what lca's do..with a better Square set torque arm of sorts...ladder bars...do plant the rear tires 100%..both sides at the same time...

FRMULA88

I will try to scan my SSM install guide.. it is ancient with coffee stains etc.. lol

I would not have removed the LCAs if the guide said not to, same with the rear sway bar, and torque arm.. NO issues after so many years.

the guide was also clear about using the correct amount of pinion angle as well..

Amazing a car guy who actually reads the directions for the parts he buys LOL !!

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

have my copy also in photo bucket. Will post it today.would do it now. If I get my phone to help me out...lol

The 2 copys I got from SSM say the same thing...about leaving them on. IMO.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

This new smart phone is the sh! $

Took me a few min to fig it out.... anyway posted the page from the instruction sheetsfrom Southside machine.

FRMULA88

You must have a revised set of instructions or lift bars. I will check mine when I get home.

When did you buy your kit?
what pinion angle did you set the rearend to?

since they don't make these SSM parts anymore and I threw my LCAs out over 15 years ago.. I will go out on a limb and say what I have is ok.

FRMULA88

Update from Strange... my old case has a crack at the pinion bearing seat you could only see this when you tore it down to replace the pinion.

I had a funny feeling this was a critical moment to inspect the carrier after running it with the new engine, doing the gear swap was circumstance.

I am getting a new Strange nodular iron case to compliment the gear swap. NICE !

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

torque arm ftw!

sorry, figured i'd stir the pot a little.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

Wow..matt..what took you so long...

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

My first set was 1993
Have 2sets.one from 93.the other is from 2002

My pinon is set at neg 4 deg total.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

sorry, i'll be on the ball better next time.

SSM bars work. i just feel a torque arm works better.

FRMULA88

I like the extra space in the driveshaft tunnel w/o the torque arm. Plus the OEM piece is flimsy... a good one, like spohn's probably weighs more than the SSM bars.

Yes artic you are correct, my SSM install guide says the same thing... BUT I defer to my "how to 11 sec ET book" which says the LCAs are not needed. It worked for Greg so many years ago and still works for me... if it ain't broke... any idea when SSM closed shop?

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

miss management. its to bad to. they made some good parts. for alot of diff cars.

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

I would really like yo see this lift bar setup if one of y'all get a chance to take a pic from underneath !

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow heads, 4.10 gears, full UMI setup, track times coming soon!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i don't care for the spohn arm. i don't like the idea of it being attached to the transmission crossmember. i believe the torque arm should be on it's own dedicated crossmember. the spohn crossmember makes exhaust almost an impossibility to.

personally, i think that a single arm, that's built with drag racing in mind, with a tubular front crossmember that spans the car and welds to the sfcs, would be FAR less weight than the big box tubing ssm bars.

FRMULA88

so that's about 5-6 l.f of welded truss steel tubing for the torque arm and a 5' foot wide cross member?

IDK Matt even with chrome moly this sounds heavier than (2) 3' long tube steel bars because you need twice as much material.

Which is why was more than happy to pitch all that including the LCAs when installed this setup.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ssm bars exclude me from the stock style suspension that i love so much. it also screws with IC placement and encourages suspension binding.

if the car works well and you like it, then don't change it, lol.

FRMULA88

If you are racing in "stock style suspension" class then I suppose you could not deviate from a "stock style suspension".

I never had an issued with that however My target for now is simply open test & tune and when I get the car dialed in bring it to some 10.5 index competitions. (anything goes so long as you run the number)

I have no desire to bracket race the car anymore. All the effort for very little payout IMHO. I would rather spend that time with my little ones (they grow up fast ! )

Heads up style index racing is more appealing to me, otherwise it is a test n tune toy and just try to run my best times until the little ones can come to the track.. Priorities change when you have kids.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

i still bracket race my car... what i love about the SSM/Ladderbars. is i know every time i stage..my car is going to hook..with this new set up.(eng) combo..it's going to be better then the old set up. looking forward to tryn it out...it just flat makes the car hook and it makes the consistency just Fantastic... thats why iv had mine for over 20 years now..

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

Will try to post a few pics..
this shot shows the back...this is 9 years of dust from sitting..sorry(locked the car away.)

This shot showing mid of bars

this shotshows the front crossmember.and 9 years of surface rust.all clean and now. Pics taken 3years ago. Be for the make over

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'm interested to see how they react with more power.

FORMUL88, index racing is where it's at man! being a stick shift car now i'm not as consistently competitive as i used to be, but when i get it sorted, i hope to get back there.

FRMULA88

1.50s 60' with the new combo, trans brake at 3000 RPM and old short tires.

1.60s with the 383 foot braking to 3000 and short tires.


we shall see how things go with the new 4.30 gear & taller tires going to leave trans brake setting alone for now until I get used to the new rear gear and how it reacts at the starting line.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i guess i don't see 1.5x's as being that fast when the torque arm and radial tires have been 1.0x....

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

y'know.... im looking at this setup thinking how great it would be for a low buck car. you could get a close to correct width 8.8 or 12 bolt rear and toss it in there with this setup. what im thinking it should have is a slider joint at the front of the bars on the crossmember to prevent bind, though. (same thing the torque arm has on the front)
with a wolfe anti rollbar (or something like that) you wont have much rearend articulation anyways, so these arms riding like a ladderbar car wont be much of an issue. if i read correctly these bars are kinda like a jegster arm from axle centerline to front arm mount. i measured my old jegster arm once, but cant remember what it was now.

FRMULA88

maybe so, is that what you 60' ?

my guess is our cars our pretty similar... a 1.5x 60' is about right for high 10s.. once I get it dialed in it should be right around 1.3x for mid 10s.
but i digress.


I picked up my overhauled new carrier today hit it with a fresh coat of paint goign to install it tomorrow.. I then clearanced the driver side wheel well.

I think when the chassis is loaded I am going to have to notch the lower fronts of the wheel wells, otherwise so far so good.

I removed my old 4" mufflex exhaust... 53.5 # !!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

please don't take what i'm saying as abrasive, as that's not the context i've been typing in. i waited so long to point it out cause i didn't want to get into a pissing contest over something silly like this.

my car is slow. it's been 1.49 twice. once with the auto and once with the t56. auto was a dead hook on 4.10's and 28" tires. the converter was a tight nitrous converter and was very lazy the first 330'. the t56 was on a 4.30 gear and 26" tire and a controlled clutch slip. i'm confident once i go to a 4.71 gear and 28" tire i can get a bit more aggressive. i see 1.45 60's being possible. going back to a long torque arm on my car (i have a non adjustable jegster right now) i think that 1.39ish should be possible as the longer arm hits the tires much softer. i'm hoping the gear and tire change will happen this summer and the torque arm will be this coming winter.

it's amazing how heavy the exhaust is. i built a single 4" over the axle type 2 winters ago. i raced with it all last year till the end of the season when i realized it picked up 2 mph without it. i know run a 3" mini bullet (dynomax 24249) on each collector then come together into a single 4" y-pipe for scavanging and nothing after the y-pipe. combined with the other things i did this winter (k-member and full front suspension, manual steering etc etc) i took about 230lbs out of the car

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

with a big gulp in one hand(2 fingers on the wheel)..foot bake hole shot my old 383 was a 1.50 car all day long till the the pinon would let go about 8 runs.. new ring and pinon good for another 8 runs...

then the big parts fail at 100+mph.ring&pinon fail. the tranny.. drive line..torque converter...then came the 9" install..a week later a rod let go..and i put the car away for 9 years... even with a 10.54 sec foot brake car. bracket racing was fun.
but most of the time i would end up in bracket 2 with cars all stripped out and plastic windows and one seat..

me with power windows power seats tilt cruse..(no a/c) i have my limits..and a working dome light to boot...me with no trans brake.. delay box. throttle stop.. it was still fun to watch them come over and see what was up...lol

even more fun when ya started sandbagging.. using the brakes to slow down with a dial in say 12.60 and a time without nos in the 11.70 class..it was fun to let up and try not to brake out...got good at it...lol got alot more runs in a day.

FRMULA88

I decided to let it dry over night, so I can screw up the dry paint job today trying to reinstall this beast.

Matt,

No offence taken...I hope I did not come across that way either. There is more than 1 way to set up the suspension for drag racing.. If everyone did the same thing how fun would that be?

I am really thinking these new 28x10.5-15s are going to rub the bottom front of the inner wheel wells. There is not enough metal to just BFH the clearance. I may have to pie slice and patch with some metal and pop rivets...(or rent a 110 mig)

Probably the best solution (long term) is get the car to a chassis shop and mini-tub it.


I am liking your solution to the exhaust for a track only car.

I think I will retrieve my 3" into 4" y-pipe from the recycling bin..
I have car chemistry collector inserts (my collectors are 4" ) and was just going to add 3" reducers with dump pipes.

I ran the car last year with open headers (and the collector inserts).. I don't think the inserts are hurting based on the MPH and they do take the edge off the sound versus open headers..

Did you have to "clearance" the bullet mufflers to clear the transmission cross member?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i wish i had some pictures of what i cut out of the wheel well on the front near the lca mount. it was just superficial material. i literally just removed it and i was good to go. probably only like a 3"x4" (that's a WAG on the measurements) section near where the lca mount is. obviously a mini-tub would fix all of this and i intend to do that at some point myself.

here are where my collectors are:



here is a better shot of my transmission crossmember that i built for extra exhaust clearance





here is about the only shot of my mufflers/y-pipe combo that i have



i hope that gives you some idea of how much clearance i have. my car is SILLY low. i scraped the new bellhousing on a driveway transition. my exhaust cleared.

i did this to the dovetail of my trailer to assist in loading and unloading the car:

FRMULA88

Yes that is same material I am looking at on my wheel wells, the lower front where the LCA brackets are.

So you just "pruned" these off, what about the holes? did you just hammer the metal shut or make patch panels?

I can rent a 110V MIG if I need to but my home garage is not really setup (yet) for any serious metal fab. I have basic hand tools, a chop saw, & angle grinder.
pop rivets and self tappers do a good job but not as pretty and welding, but if you do it neat.. it's fine for the purpose as this is not structural.

At this point I want to get this thing ready for this weekend.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I wanted to make sure a 13" wide tire would clear when tucked under..

every thing is flat from this spring cover plat to the corner of the wheel well. Front and back.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

When I pruned these areas back, I didn't have any holes to close up.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

I cleand mine up with removing the radius inner wheel well. And moving it back 3 inches Square. You can see in the photo how a tire would fit now..you don't have to do this radical. But if you ever upgrade to a wide tire. Thats 29" tall and you want it tucked under..on a wide rim..this is a step.. before mini tubs..

You have a lip inside.in the 3rd gen. I also removed it. And made it flat.and the gray flimsy sheet steel behind the bump stop plate can be removed then just covered with 16 / 18 gauge sheet steel.

Also note. Spring cover plate. Is bowed out just a bit..this is for the upgrade to rear coil overs with double adjustable shocks.

FRMULA88

LOL... looks like I have a bit of work to do on the lower corners with my cut-off disc on my dewalt angle grinder.


The goal today after work is to reinstall the center-section (without killing myself)
I may have to make a little cradle with some scrap 2x4s for my floor jack to make the task easier since I am working on my back. The stock part was kinda heavy, but now that it's nodular iron it seems to be heavier.

Then reinstall the axles so I can mount the wheels, lower the car slowly & see how tight it is.

slicks will tend to grow taller as you accelerate so much side clearance do I really need? 1/2" ? 1" ?

I am using stiff sidewall slicks since the car has a rear suspension.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

QUOTE=FRMULA88;5753115]LOL... looks like I have a bit of work to do on the lower corners with my cut-off disc on my dewalt angle grinder.


The goal today after work is to reinstall the center-section (without killing myself)
I may have to make a little cradle with some scrap 2x4s for my floor jack to make the task easier since I am working on my back. The stock part was kinda heavy, but now that it's nodular iron it seems to be heavier.

Then reinstall the axles so I can mount the wheels, lower the car slowly & see how tight it is.

slicks will tend to grow taller as you accelerate so much side clearance do I really need? 1/2" ? 1" ?

I am using stiff sidewall slicks since the car has a rear suspension.[/QUOTE]

If you clean off under coating use a wire wheel on your grinder.it's the fastest thing. Takes seconds...and yes cutting any sheet metal under the car a cutting wheel is the fastest...

All the above work can be done in a day..if you start be for 9am..

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

look at what ya can do with just a few mods under the car without tubs.
warning only for cars with massive amounts of torque!
unless it's just for looks? like on the ford sites


will ya just look at the paint..not polished in 12 years...you should see it when its done for a show.. 22 year old paint...babied.
look at the door lines..not a sag to be had...babied
what else can i cut off her?

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Wish my paint looked that good ... mine has chips all in it right behind front tire and my mirrors and bumpers are spider cracking all to hell

91' bird 305 TBI T-5, trick flow heads, 4.10 gears, full UMI setup, track times coming soon!

FRMULA88

I did get the center section back in without the aid of a jack or cradle.


Laying on my back I just placed it on my chest then picked it up and set it on the studs. A couple taps with my dead blow hammer and it was seated.

I re-installed the washers & nuts, the axles and retaining plates, then added 2.5 qts. of fresh gear oil.


FWIW I did not bother with RTV sealant. I spent the 10 bucks and bought the proper rubber gasket from Strange, no mess and no leaks !

I got a late start so that was it for now. The track is not going to happen this weekend with rain in the forecast so no reason to rush the project.

The next task is to clearance the wheel wells which is the perfect job for a rainy weekend

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

Goodjob .use the right parts for the job to boot .I have a old creeper I use to move parts under the car with..will hold a full 9"and slide right into place...its a steel frame with urethane wheels.......