Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Thanks, I think I figured it out. In cmd I navigated to the directory with the s19_pat_.exe, bin and the patch in it. As I understand the tutorial I imputed s19_pat_ code43.s19 0x0000 mybinname.bin.

After I do that the cmd prompt just tells me copyright info, did it work? Tunerpro did update the checksum.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The offset is incorrect, use:

s19_pat_ code43.s19 0xD000 mybinname.bin

Note the leading 'D'.

With nothing but the copyright notice the patch utility ran OK. Meaning the it found the required files.

RBob.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Thanks again RBob. For my own education, how do you figure where to put the offset? I was following the patching guide and it said if the offset is included in the patch to use 0000. I will be sure to repatch the bin again using a virgin bin with my current tune after work.

On another note I tried out the timing map RS is using in his thread, increased my injector offset to 150 (I worked the math included in the mask) and increases my AE some more. I had no stumble or pop on the way to work. I will try to post up my current tune and log when I get home.

I truly feel the tune is coming together with the great help I have been getting.

RS-Chevy-SS

Glad RF and myself could help! Haha. Which reminds me I need to apply some suggestions that Bob had reference IAT/CTS correction

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Okay, I took two bins with me to work. I had the one I thought I had patched in there on the way and an identical one but with no patch in a bag. After work I swapped in the unpatched bin. The popping came back but not as bad. I am wondering if the popping is the ECM trying to force a knock and advancing the timing too much. I have patched a new bin using the offset provided by RBob.

Some images of my log and tune

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

More

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Drove to work on the patched bin, it ran awesome. The popping must have been the forced knock advancing the timing too far. I don't know what could have been done without the patch. You're a smart fellow RBob.

RS-Chevy-SS

How's that timing table running for you? Depending on which one you got, it made my motor knock.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I used the last one you posted but I used the 3d view to put the timing back in you had taken out. I still haven't had time to get the y-pipe off the subframe connector so I believe I have phantom knocks.

Here are my knock counts and timing table if interested.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

My last timing log also. Any suggestions on what to do with my tables?

RS-Chevy-SS

Man that looks like a look. Get that exhaust issue fixed. Then we will see how much of it is real

RFmaster

Spaceboy

You should not be getting any 'real' knock around idle. High KS counts are likely due to mechanical rattling or exhaust system resonances. It is does not take much to trigger KS. I've also noticed rich condition around idle - you may want to trim VE table values in the 800 to 1200 RPM range by 40 to 50 kPA. This will move BLM counts away from 108 and give ECM some fuel adjustment room.

//RF

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Ya, almost all of my knock counts are around idle. I need to quit working seven days a week so I can relocate the arm on my UMI subframe connectors. I have hooked up my VRFPR to vacuum, I will log that and see if it helps my low rpm blms.

Should I be smoothing the tables after I adjust them?

Thanks for the advice and help gentlemen!

RFmaster

I would get BLM in the ballpark range first (128 +/-3 count) after that I would try to smooth VE tables. After smoothing - back out and collect more data. It is back and forth until you do not see further corrections greater 2 points.

//RF

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I hooked up the VRFPR to vacuum and got a bog. I think I am going to unhook it and cap it.

I still have my egr solenoid plugged in but capped off. If I unplug and remove it completely, will it cause problems with the computer? If it can be removed, can I remove the harness off of the coil for it also?

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Agreed!!! I just put a pair of modified nismo ( thicker gauge, modified pipe lengths for more equal length, and larger 2.5 in collectors vs 2.25") clone prototype headers on my truck and one primary had a very close fit to the frame, so close it rubs on a hard launch and causes a brief instance of knock retard. It also rubs going into reverse and I see knock activity there as well.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I have developed some issues, I think my O2 may be lying to me.

I took fuel out in the table and my BLMs are unchanged. I took 30% out in the 800-1200 areas and 25% in the 1600-1800 areas in the area of use. I am still getting 108 and 128 blms at idle but it is usually hitting 108. Shouldn't I have some inbetween readings? It quite literally is either 128 or 108.

My 1600 up areas have now started hitting 133. I have seen some change there and need to fatten it back up a bit.

My idle has developed a slight stall in it. It never does stall but it loses about 200-300 rpms then recovers. When it does this my O2 reading drops way down to around 90. Why would my O2 fall out like that, could it be an intermittent open in the connection? It for the most part has a pattern to it but sometimes it goes longer between stall attempts than others.

The engine has also developed a lurch around 1100 rpms. It does it if you are barely on the gas, most noticeable trolling around a parking lot but it does do it at speed also if you hit the sweet (or should it be sour) spot. I am going to try my last bin before the current one and see if any of the stall/lurching abates.

Any wisdom from the crowd? I am going to continue to research these issues.

ETA: I have checked for vacuum leaks with propane and did not find any.

RFmaster

Spaceboy

To dig into this you should post a ZIP or RAR compressed file containing: Datalog, BIN file, and ADX used by TunerPro.

//RF

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Here she be, P9.bin is the most recent but I included the one before it. I was labeling it V1, etc but once I patched the bin I wanted a way to tell at what point it was done thus the P8, etc. I included the bin I was running before P9 also but the included logs are from the same day off of the P9 bin.

ETA:

Would help if I included the zip, lol

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

So I went back to my previous bin and the lurching seems better but it is still there. It is just off of idle and cruising at right around 1000 rpms. I am not convinced it is in the tune, I think something related to tbi may have failed. Could it be the tps going out? It reads fine in tunerpro.

RS-Chevy-SS

Well seeing as it reports fine in tunerpro, im inclined to say its good. I would say tune or bad injector maybe?

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are a number of items that may be causing it. The injectors may be switching in and out of async mode. The closed loop proportional gains may not be correct. Or the injector bias is to low causing the injectors to stop delivering fuel.

The proportional gains one can be tested by forcing open loop all of the time (CTS threshold). Then seeing is the issue went away.

RBob.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I will try that out when I am freed up. Kids restarting school and all has me hammered!

mizz0313

iTrader: (1)

Sweeet

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I got a new toy in the mail today so I will more than likely be continuing this thread in another sub forum. Since Fast liked the inclusion in the pic of the Z28 I added a couple more for him:



RBob, I will be contacting you once I have most of the parts gathered. This will be EBL'd.

RS-Chevy-SS

TPI!? Traitor!!!!!! Whats the price on the tbi stuff.

Glad to see you join the EBL club though.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Look again, that's not TPI. Do you really want my TBI stuff? What components?

So ya, you know me:

RS-Chevy-SS

Ok idk what the hell it is then. Looks like a tpi intake

RFmaster

RS not exactly - it does look like powder coated Holley Stealth Ram. Unlike GM TPI runner based induction system this does not use runners, but instead relies on large volume plenum for equalized air distribution. Can't use it here since it does not have provisions for EGR and was never certified by ECO-***** in the past.

//RF

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Yep, it is a HSR. I actually had some 24lb injectors already and have also sourced a SD ECM and a early throttle body. I plan to repin my harness using the guide and send the ECM out for EBL. I need fuel rails, I plan to use the seventy dollar pro comp rails, and some AN fittings and braided line to hook it all up.

RS-Chevy-SS

Why that fueling system change?

92rsvortec350

iTrader: (8)

I'm in the process of going stealth ram on my new setup also I cant find the procomp rails in stock anywhere will you let me know if you can find them somewhere?

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Sure, I called procomp and they told me to check back weekly and that they will get some in stock.

I got the HSR because it was on Holly's scratch and dent sale 100 off. It has stains on the base and I was painting it anyway so yeah 300 for a HSR.

92rsvortec350

iTrader: (8)

Ok thanks and yeah cant beat that.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Here is there number if you want to bug them too:

tel:9096051123

RBob

iTrader: (1)

That HSR is going to look good under the hood.

About the ECM, if you are going with the EBL Flash w/Port Mod, don't re-pin anything. Only changes will be the TPS & IAC connectors (possibly), along with adding/changing to port style injector connectors.

The '90 - '92 SD ECM ('7730) is a different animal then the EBL Flash ECM system. Using it requires a total re-pin of the ECM harness connectors along with adding a third connector.

In this case you would need to use the EBL P4 Flash system.

Then: TBI versus MPFI, neither the EBL Flash w/Port Mod or the EBL P4 Flash system will run a TBI set up.

So need to have everything lined up to do this swap.

RBob.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Not to detract from what you have to say, but I ran TPI with the EBL Classic without port fuel mod. Ran very well as a matter of fact with the tuneability of the tables in the EBL. Definately not for the beginner but not something that cannot be done. At one point I was running a 383 with ported vortecs, 2.05/1.60 valves, a ported edelbrock 3817 base, siamesed SLP runners, and a 232/240 @ .050" hydraulic roller cam. Alpha N allowed for a very decent idle, despite only having 8-12 in/hg vacuum @ 850 rpm.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you can run MPFI with an EBL Flash (or Classic) and no Port Mod. But it isn't ideal, a lot gets lost doing it that way. Also need to use injectors of 14 ohms or higher (on an 8-cyl engine).

We've had folks purchase an EBL Flash w/Port Mod and trying to stay TBI. So wanted to outline that a true MPFI ECM won't run a GM or Holley TBI set up.

RBob.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Wow RBob, that's even simpler than I thought. What is the base ECM of the port mod? My injectors check out at 16.4-16.5 ohms. I may send them to witchhunter before I put it together.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I understand where you are coming from. For someone not familiar with how EFI works, I could see the confusion.

Alot gets lost with batchfire, single bank fuel control, and lack of full time wideband 02 feedback as well. The Ultimate EFI fuel/timing control for a Gen1 small block IMO is the 24x/58x setup with coil near plug and a LSx PCM running it using a 4-7 swap cam.

I was running stock LT4 injectors, I believe they were in the 14-16 ohm range.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The Port Mod is installed in an EBL Flash ECM, of which the '8746 ECM can be used as the base ECM.

> My injectors check out at 16.4-16.5 ohms.

Multec's, used? I'd be leery if so.

RBob.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

CnP is a nice set up. Just installed them on the SFI-6 engine this Spring. Really lights off the charge, and in a timely manner.

As for the LSx PCM set ups, they do run well.

RBob.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

They are Bosch, 85 corvette according to the part number on them.

I am going to be on vacation out of town next week so I will probably order the ebl when I get back. Would it be possible for you to configure me a PayPal invoice? I think I will just purchase a full ECM out right.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Bosch is good. We can send a PP invoice, just need your PP email ID. And of course what you want to purchase. Don't forget a good USB to Serial adapter cable, the EBL Flash systems use a serial port.

RBob.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

PM sent.

Does the cable stay on the ebl and ran to an accessable location? What ecm works best, 8746 or 7747 or are they both plug and play in my car?

RFmaster

Cable can be removed when not programming or performing data logging. Since ECM is housed behind passanger side foot-well cover cable can be stowed away just above it with Velcro straps (or similar).

Either 8746 or 7747 ECM can be used with EBL - my preference is for 8746 or later service replacement AC-Delco units.

RS-Chevy-SS

Space out of curiosity, are you running a coolant bypass like I am? If so, go read my thread. Just had a epiphany haha.

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

I played with this some because why not right? I forced open loop full time and the problem still persists. I don't think the injector bias is too low because I did the math for them that is specified if you hover over the table in the xdf file and I did have to increase it some.

How can the injectors be check for sync and async mode switching? I would like to cure the surging if I can if it is in the tune.

Thanks!

Spaceboy1980

iTrader: (6)

Well I started a new thread in alternative port efi if anyone wants to keep following:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/alte...ml#post5814337

I also found out in my CSM that GM calls the condition I am experiencing "Chuggle."

Catalytic

So did you finish the car? I've been reading through all the vortec swaps. Lots of good info.