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Finally moving into the new shop. Unpacking things and setting everything up. The Aluminum LC9 on the stand is going in the orange firebird with a single turbo.
The two post lift is operational. I need to finish setting the four post lift up this weekend. Also running the hard lines off the compressor to each bay. Forgive the mess.
Shop is looking good, wish I had the space/money for that. I did get a 12 foot ceiling in my garage though for a future lift and had the builder pour a 6 inch slab right where I marked off where a 2 post lift would go for the future. I can't find anybody to convert my garage door opener to a high-lift one for less than $4k though. Might have to look into doing it myself or paying a garage door guy for a side job.
You sold the sbc and T-trim and are going with an LS with forward facing manifolds and turbo?
Shop is looking good, wish I had the space/money for that. I did get a 12 foot ceiling in my garage though for a future lift and had the builder pour a 6 inch slab right where I marked off where a 2 post lift would go for the future. I can't find anybody to convert my garage door opener to a high-lift one for less than $4k though. Might have to look into doing it myself or paying a garage door guy for a side job.
You sold the sbc and T-trim and are going with an LS with forward facing manifolds and turbo?
I haven't actually installed the garage door openers yet, but I have jackshaft door springs, so the chamberland openers are about $550 each. I have 3 bays in the new shop. The door tracks tuck up high near the ceiling. As long as you have a jack shaft or torsion bar or whatever they are called, you can do the wall mount opener.
I bought some chinese manifolds (single turbo) that are popular on the trucks. I'm going to probably cut them up and rework them a little bit. I like cast manifolds. Have not seen anyone put these on a third gen so I figured I'd give it a try.
Spent a little time today tinkering with the 4 post lift, adjusting the cables. Not quite right yet but almost all set.
Not quite fully moved into the shop but unpacking stuff and moving things around. My cast turbo manifolds came in so I was checking them out on the LC9 block.
The TH350 is still in the thirdgen, so I'm going to stick the dirty dingo motor mounts on a bare aluminum LS block and mount it up with a head, and mock up this manifold with a vs7875 and see how bad it crashes into the shock tower.
I'm more than likely going to convert the car back to manual over the winter, though. It always felt lazy with the automatic.
No doubt in my mind, this is gonna whack the hood BUT I think we can cut down the manifold and re-weld the flange.
I'm also thinking of making a merge in the front to connect to the passenger side under the oil pan. On truck applications they run the crossover behind the bell housing, but I suspect there won't be much room since I want to run a 3" downpipe there.
Should've just went with the hooker turbo manifold setup and been done. No cutting things up just mount the turbo and go
Well, I do like the hooker manifold but I've seen a few photos of it in a thirdgen and it looks to require just as much if not more surgery. In your attached photo the radiator support is all cut up to make room for the turbo in front of the engine.
I've also seen a bunch of photos of the down pipe coming out the fender because there was no room to get it past the rear of the manifold.
I'd rather rework the manifold than the engine bay.
Well, I do like the hooker manifold but I've seen a few photos of it in a thirdgen and it looks to require just as much if not more surgery. In your attached photo the radiator support is all cut up to make room for the turbo in front of the engine.
I've also seen a bunch of photos of the down pipe coming out the fender because there was no room to get it past the rear of the manifold.
I'd rather rework the manifold than the engine bay.
-- Joe
Yea my application isn't typical, I had to move my engine forward a bit to get the transmission to mount up plus move the radiator about 5 inches to mount my turbo in front like you see
Yea my application isn't typical, I had to move my engine forward a bit to get the transmission to mount up plus move the radiator about 5 inches to mount my turbo in front like you see
I get it, nothing wrong with it, I just am trying to modify the offshore manifold to work with the stock dimensions.
I may end up moving the engine forward a little bit so the downpipe clears between the firewall and the rear of the manifold.
I have a bare block and heads for mockup. I'm going to try to get those in the car this week so I can start seeing where everything lands dimensionally. The LC9 is disassembled now and waiting for parts to show up.
So this is why these don't work. To make the turbo manifold work the flange needs to be cut and moved forward several inches, and lowered a little bit:
Compared to a single T76 I ran in the same car:
The LS is so wide you can't fit a turbo in the same spot between the head and the strut tower.
I spent some time measuring things, and learned a few things - such as despite what I read on here, the driver side truck manifold whacks the floor pan and even my tubular K-member, which makes it really not a very good candidate.
Honestly, I've got TONS of room behind the motor mounts and under the oil pan. If they made something like a cast LS "ram horn" that would be perfect for the crossover. No room really in front of the engine due to steering linkage.
Here is the hooker manifold. I think if I go this route I still will want to cut it up a little and re-work it. I'd prefer the cross over be more in the middle, perhaps using a C6 manifold on the driver side. I was able to fit a 3.5" pipe between the rear cylinder and the firewall without issue, but it WOULD hit the crossover if I had a pipe there.
I'm not thrilled about the way the crossover runs on the hooker manifold. I decided to do a little grind and weld to the chinese manifold. I cut off a section and welded some flat stock to it, let it cool off, and beat it with a hammer to see if the welds would fail. Didn't.
I think I'm going to run a vband down as low as possible into a short radius 90* schedule 40 bend. then likely into another bend, and into a T4 flange. I like the idea of running these above the water neck vs running around it like the hooker manifold requires.
I can't help but be jealous looking at your shop! Nice! And here I was happy with my Quick jack TL7000...but now you've got me drooling over your lifts and all the room you've got!!!
I can't help but be jealous looking at your shop! Nice! And here I was happy with my Quick jack TL7000...but now you've got me drooling over your lifts and all the room you've got!!!
Not to get too off topic, but since it's related to the build..
So the funny thing is, I used to have a commercial shop, I think it was 25x50. Two deep bays, and then we had the paint shop next door. In 2007 when the economy tanked I moved out of that building, sold half my equipment, and downsized. Bought a small farm in another state, built a very small shop. But then over the years I started realizing I needed more space, I always had at least two projects apart, so last year I destroyed the old garage (that I built in 2008) and started building a new attached garage to my house.
I have construction equipment (bobcat, excavator) and did the majority of the work myself in my 'free time'. Took just over a year and about $110,000 in materials so far, although that also includes a new breezeway and fence. I still have to pave the driveway and some finishing touches.
Ordered the rest of what I needed yesterday. After lots of reading, and some conversations with customblackbird, I decided to go with the VSR billet 70/70 with .92 AR housing. The idea here is with the 5.3 it will spool quicker and build more usable power in the RPM range I'm intending on using (2500-6200).
I have a plan for the manifold. Going to weld up that 3" vband, run a vband to vband 90, then a vband to T4 cast elbow facing the passenger fender. This should allow me to mount the turbo where I want, and have room for the WG without having a weird bend around the water neck.
Drilled out where the crossover will go and the waste gate flange in the front. Going to finish tacking / mocking it up then everything gets tig welded.
Off topic kinda but if you dont mind my asking, what are the dimensions of your shop. And those are 12 ft ceilings?? I'm using an old four box stall barn converted to a shop right now, roughly 20x 28 but built in the 1800's so a low ceiling. We're seriously considering moving with the idea of getting a house from this century... I doubt we'll find a place with a shop so I'm looking around for ideas and I really like the look of your setup.
thanks
Brian
Off topic kinda but if you dont mind my asking, what are the dimensions of your shop. And those are 12 ft ceilings?? I'm using an old four box stall barn converted to a shop right now, roughly 20x 28 but built in the 1800's so a low ceiling. We're seriously considering moving with the idea of getting a house from this century... I doubt we'll find a place with a shop so I'm looking around for ideas and I really like the look of your setup.
thanks
Brian
Shop is 40x24 with 13 foot ceilings. The floor is sloped back to front, so the clearance is more like 13 in the front and 12'10 in the back. I probably could have done 40x30, but I was trying to make it look residential.
We just poured a foundation for my buddy's new shop, 45x30.
I've been going back and forth in my head about buying another four post lift for the bay all the way to the right, so I can store two 'completed' cars over the winter in that one bay, and still have the middle and left bay open for wrenching + welding.
Thanks for the info. I like the "keeping it residential look" so I'm definitely keeping yours in mind. In my case it's not only a decent size bay for the car which is more often apart than running but space for the side by side,sled and the (compact) tractor.
Brian
So some folks have mentioned that the 38mm waste gate might not be big enough to control low boost on the 70/70 turbo. My manifold has a 1.75" nipple to a vband, which I believe is 38mm specific. (I think 44mm uses a 1 7/8" pipe?)
Started playing around and I came up with this spacer I built which would let me run my 50mm gate , however it would be 90 degrees from the flow path. It might be even worse if you consider the flow might hug the outside sweep of the bend in the log.
So I guess the question is, would a 50mm gate control boost better even being at 90 degrees than the 38mm would in the location it is in on the log. (about 45ish degrees).
If I use the 38mm gate I need to figure a way to snake 1.5" pipe back into the downpipe. If I use the 50mm gate, it will be just under the down pipe so I should be able to make it work fairly simply.
Waiting for the 3.5" stainless pipe to show up so I can start fabricating the down pipe. I figure I'll run 3.5" until about the transmission crossmember then neck down to 3" and tie into my exhaust.
Spent some time mocking up the wastegate and downpipe. 3" vband into 3.5" downpipe, the 50MM waste gate will dump at an angle into the downpipe. So far it's coming along pretty good.
The T4-T4 riser I built has a little scoop to help get exhaust into the waste gate. I looked at a lot of photos of turbine housings with integrated wastegates and how they scoop the exhaust flow into the gate so boost can be controlled low (if needed).
I'm probably going to keep it around 12-14psi but if it pings I'd like to be able to dial it back.
I also started making some minor changes to my megasquirt for the 58x crank trigger, and I'll be running an electronic boost solenoid.
Finished the wastegate adapter. Just waiting on some 3.5" bends to show up so I can finish the downpipe.
I really like the way this is coming out. Most turbo setups end up being an absolute mess of pipes, and I think I've pretty much met my goal of having tight packaging and I like the OEM feeling of cast manifolds.
Finished the wastegate adapter. Just waiting on some 3.5" bends to show up so I can finish the downpipe.
I really like the way this is coming out. Most turbo setups end up being an absolute mess of pipes, and I think I've pretty much met my goal of having tight packaging and I like the OEM feeling of cast manifolds.
Looks good but That mild steel DP probably won't last too long. Stainless is the only way to go when doing turbo stuff. My first DP was mild steel and after a while was just a mess. It couldn't handle the heat at all.
Looks good but That mild steel DP probably won't last too long. Stainless is the only way to go when doing turbo stuff. My first DP was mild steel and after a while was just a mess. It couldn't handle the heat at all.
It's all stainless. The 3.5" downpipe is 409 stainless, the 2" is 304.
I'd like to put the waste gate in the front, although the heater hose barbs might be in the way.
you can make some more room at your water pump if you install 90 degree nipples. i pulled the factory nipples out of my water pump, milled the surface down some and then tapped & installed some 90 degree NPT fittings for new threaded nipples. i still had to dent my downpipe a little for clearance, but i was able to keep my heater hoses for defrost.
you can make some more room at your water pump if you install 90 degree nipples. i pulled the factory nipples out of my water pump, milled the surface down some and then tapped & installed some 90 degree NPT fittings for new threaded nipples. i still had to dent my downpipe a little for clearance, but i was able to keep my heater hoses for defrost.
That looks good. I can't believe nobody makes pressed in 90* nipples. Interesting how you used the close 90 an then a screw in straight nipple so you were able to thread them in next to each other.
Wouldn’t that melt the tire? My wheel doesn’t have a ton of distance from the well.
It's really no closer than the factory exhaust. I'm not really running wide tires up front. Couple of inches clearance when the wheel is fully turned, and like a mile of clearance when the wheel is straight
That looks good. I can't believe nobody makes pressed in 90* nipples. Interesting how you used the close 90 an then a screw in straight nipple so you were able to thread them in next to each other.
The LS water pump design is silly.
I just found out that Earl's makes swivel NPT to hose barb adapters, here's one example that's probably the wrong size but it's nice to know this stuff exists:
Got some time to work on this tonight. Mocked up the downpipe. I think I'm happy with this. Now I just need to fully weld it. It's in two sections. The bottom section is bolted to the bell housing, which allows me to disconnect the top section to mess with the turbo if needed.
I just found out that Earl's makes swivel NPT to hose barb adapters, here's one example that's probably the wrong size but it's nice to know this stuff exists:
For now I'm going to just loop them. I bought a panel to replace the heater box. If I do end up eventually putting heat back in the car, I'll either do an electric heater/blower in the dash, or a vintage air box. For now I just have one of those U loops for the water pump nipples.
For now I'm going to just loop them. I bought a panel to replace the heater box. If I do end up eventually putting heat back in the car, I'll either do an electric heater/blower in the dash, or a vintage air box. For now I just have one of those U loops for the water pump nipples.
I think that looping them is the incorrect way of deleting that as it affects operating temp as it simulates the heater core being full flow all the time. It's conflicting info all over the web but my understanding is that you shouldn't loop them but block them off. I always pull mine out and they are perfectly sized for a 1/2NPT and 3/8NPT pipe plug, just tap an install.
I think that looping them is the incorrect way of deleting that as it affects operating temp as it simulates the heater core being full flow all the time. It's conflicting info all over the web but my understanding is that you shouldn't loop them but block them off. I always pull mine out and they are perfectly sized for a 1/2NPT and 3/8NPT pipe plug, just tap an install.
I've read mixed things as well, but a buddy told me if you just cap them off the thermostat doesn't work properly?
I've read mixed things as well, but a buddy told me if you just cap them off the thermostat doesn't work properly?
Are yours capped ?
-- Joe
capped, I have it done that way on 3 diff 5.3s. I did loop one for a hot min and had some cooling issues but I made a bunch of changes so can’t say for sure it affected it. If you look at the inside the back port (block side) is its own channel. That isn’t fully blocked off from the Tstat which has a spring loaded block off plate with holes in it. It just allows coolant to flow/circulate before the Tstat opens. Loooping the nipples in my brain would suggest slower warm up time as it would be circulating coolant at a higher rate but who knows. Mine are all capped and seem to work fine.
capped, I have it done that way on 3 diff 5.3s. I did loop one for a hot min and had some cooling issues but I made a bunch of changes so can’t say for sure it affected it. If you look at the inside the back port (block side) is its own channel. That isn’t fully blocked off from the Tstat which has a spring loaded block off plate with holes in it. It just allows coolant to flow/circulate before the Tstat opens. Loooping the nipples in my brain would suggest slower warm up time as it would be circulating coolant at a higher rate but who knows. Mine are all capped and seem to work fine.
Does the front port dump into the water neck after the thermostat? If so, I'm wondering if it would aid in getting trapped air out of the system.
Does the front port dump into the water neck after the thermostat? If so, I'm wondering if it would aid in getting trapped air out of the system.
-- Joe
No, it doesn't. The front port is still behind the thermostat. The channels (2nd back stage of the thermostat) are to allow the coolant to circulate in the engine during warm up before the Tstat opens. I've heard of guys that run standard SBC Tstats are suppose to tap in a freeze plug into that large hole with a small hole drilled in the middle to allow coolant to pass through which is the same thing as the stock style Tstat and I would also assume trapped air as well. The stock Tstat's have bleeds for air as well but I always mock up the Tstat and drill a 1/8" hole in the tstat flat flange area to aid in air bleeding (also helps with engine filling and burping) in addition to the stock style one. I always try to get the new 1/8" hole as close to 12 o'clock as possible.
No, it doesn't. The front port is still behind the thermostat. The channels (2nd back stage of the thermostat) are to allow the coolant to circulate in the engine during warm up before the Tstat opens. I've heard of guys that run standard SBC Tstats are suppose to tap in a freeze plug into that large hole with a small hole drilled in the middle to allow coolant to pass through which is the same thing as the stock style Tstat and I would also assume trapped air as well. The stock Tstat's have bleeds for air as well but I always mock up the Tstat and drill a 1/8" hole in the tstat flat flange area to aid in air bleeding (also helps with engine filling and burping) in addition to the stock style one. I always try to get the new 1/8" hole as close to 12 o'clock as possible.
As I'm removing all my factory HVAC stuff from the dash, I'm re-thinking completely deleting heat. I've been looking at some of the aftermarket race car heaters with the integrated heater core and blower motor, 3" outlets. I think I'm going to run one of those.
Engine is almost assembled and ready to go. Modifying the LS2 fuel rails (running an LS2 intake) welding -6 fittings on both ends so they are not dead-ended.
Gotta pull the mock up engine out now, spend some time making the engine bay look nice, some fresh paint, and then I'll install the new engine and transmission. Depending on how busy I am with work over the next few weeks I might get it close to moving again by new years.
I stopped playing with the Z28 as it was distracting me and derailing this project.
Making some more progress. Waiting on correct length pushrods to show up so I can finish the engine. Cleaning up the engine bay and sorting out the wiring harness. Going to re-paint the engine bay, then install the engine and finish up the wiring. Converting the TPI harness (which was repinned to use Megasquirt and EDIS) to 58x. Using an early silverado 1 wire oil pressure sender, segregated 10awg fuel pump circuit, and some distribution blocks on the firewall for power and ground.
Cut up the LS2 fuel rails and removed the dividers. Tig welding AN ends on each so I'll have full parallel fuel flow with the feed in the front and return in the rear. I'm not a fan of dead ending fuel rails.
Also re-worked the BMR subframe connector so I can fit the 3.5" pipe within the stock routing. The extension I added is welded to the pinch in the front and along the whole drip edge. It's staggered over the BMR subframe connector so I was able to weld it it top bottom and both sides.
I need to call vintage air and see if they will sell me the 3rd gen fbody defrost vent to go with their small retrofit heater box.
Repainted the engine bay. The vintage air stuff (heat only) came in. I'll probably put the engine in sometime next week. I have the a-arms off the car, swapping springs, a-arms, and camber/caster plates.
The vintage air will let me run the hoses way off to the side, so I can round them over the inner fender out of the way to make it look better. Also re-welded up the battery tray. I had it removed for intercooler piping on the supercharged setup, but I'm going to try and fit things a little more tight like the procharger does.
I was hoping to get this thing moving by Christmas, but, that's probably unlikely at this point. Hopefully sometime shortly after the new year I can get it moving under its own power and onto my four post lift, do the alignment, and then finish up the exhaust.
I need to finish taking the second gen z28 apart to get it on the rotisserie so we can push it into the media blast booth.
08-04-2023, 10:15 AM
