91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

Thinking ahead for future projects for the 91 Firebird.
What are the super charger options in 2023 for a port fuel injected GM small block, I am blissfully unaware of what's out in the market

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Pretty much the same . Vortech SBC kit, Procharger, Torqstorm. If you go LS you have more options such as eaton, edelbrock.

-- Joe

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

More than likely staying SBC,
Are there any know issues with those options? Any know benefits between those three options? I'm familiar with the names Vortech and Procharger but not Torqstorm.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I have run both Vortech and Procharger. The vortech (Si, T-Trim, etc) have more efficient impeller designs than Procharger. Depending on your operating RPM and if you run a 10 rib, cog drive, etc will dictate if you need a HD gearbox. HD gearboxes are only available in straight gear, which is what I always ran and was obnoxiously loud.

Torstorm is the evolution of powerdyne. Their current gearbox is based off the XB1 prototype. It's a nice unit for the majority of street vehicles. Good bracket. Not a race unit, but a good street unit.

Here is my old Thirdgen idling with the vortech T-Trim

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

What about engine management? Does a 7730 ECM have the capability? In the future I may go with Dynamic EFI's EBL.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

search for the boosted $8D code on the diy tuning subforum. It should work fine

or if you could find code $59 files. I have them if needed but id try $8D-T first i think its called

91banditt2

iTrader: (1)

I’m just now kinda dipping my toes into OBD1 tuning and I’m still trying to wrap y mind it all. Can you explain what these two are are for and how there different?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

$8d code is basically what you are running now. Vanilla Ice on this board just modified the code to allow 2 bar map sensor fueling compensation, among other things. It be the easiest way to start tuning your setup with an added supercharger.

$59 is code from turbo v6 syclones and typhoons. Requires modification to alot of parameters to run in a v8. Not hard to do just much more tuning required. I have a couple files setup for various v8’s, one a twin turbo 400 and another a single turbo 305 tpi.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yes but it's 2023. Why use a 30 year old 8 bit management system? Holley is cheap, Megasquirt is cheap. Holley is pretty much the defacto standard now. I can't even imaging tuning a stock thirdgen ECM at this point in my life.

Terminator X is like $1200. The MAX is $400 more and does transmission control. They come with the harness, wideband o2.

You can even use a hyperspark distributor if for some reason you don't want to do full sequential (24x) and coil on plug.

-- Joe

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I tried running the Sy/Ty stuff years ago and honestly, I never felt I could get it working right, and that was after messing with a lot of non-boosted code on various 80's an 90's gm ecms (some of it was OK, some of it was crufty, some didn't work well). I went MegaSquirt from there and was amazed at how much less headache it was to get a good running car. I'm not sure that I would agree the Holley setup is cheap, but if I was starting over right now and wanted transmission management I'd give it a REALLY hard look, otherwise, I'm itching to try Speeduino, especially since much of my investment in MS tuning stuff carries over.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Same here. I did the $59, $60 stuff for years. Finally in 2012 I switched to Megasquirt. Very flexible.

As far as cost goes, if you are starting fresh you need a Megasquirt ECU, a complete harness, a wideband o2 controller and sensor, relays, and a tunerstudio license. When you add it all up, it's cheaper to just go Terminator X. If you don't have an EFI intake, injectors then it's cheaper to go Sniper. (if you don't mind 4bbl TBI).

Speeduino is interesting, I've been following it for a couple of years but its still about a decade behind Megasquirt in terms of functionality, and truthfully Megasquirt hasn't seen many improvements in about the same time period. The huge problem with MS right now is that MS2 is about the same price as Terminator X, and Ms3pro is more expensive (but has a little more I/O). There has been no development on a replacement for MS3, which is now over 10 years old. Also, they still don't have integrated E-trans controller, so you need to buy another box and link it with CAN.

To stay competitive, Megasquirt needs to release a new ECU with a cheaper price point to compete with terminator X and sniper, and maybe a higher end "pro" ecu to compete with dominator.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Holley stuff went up a lot in the past 5+ yrs like everything else

i like holley hp with ls coil type stuff but it aint cheap. But its worth it

but if you are on a budget and dont wanna spend alot of money on a low power simple boosted old sbc, then 7730 is adequate and doable

alan91z28

the interesting thing on engine management IMHO is that Holley has so much potential but blew it in terms of basic functions like idle control, any type of diagnostics, keeping the program from being lost by random key on/off cycles, introducing bad code in their software releases, reliability of their hardware, etc... (i have two HPs right now sitting back on my shelf as i ripped them out of my projects as these problems were not worth the benefits, which is very sad)

the fact of the matter is that the GM OEM OBD I and II ECMs have a lot going for them in terms of reliability and dependability. they also do a fantastic job of one of the hardest part of engine management being idle control... yes they have their limits that are frustrating at times but right now on all my projects i am using either dynamic efi, 411, or E38 as i never have had the program disappear in a parking lot or a misfire introduced in HEI control due to bad software update and not acknowledged despite sending in mounds of data to holley, etc

like everything else their isn't a perfect solution, you have to pick what you want to compromise on

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Interesting on the holley hp. Everyone i know on it hasnt had any issues, other than a pin failure due to improper transbrake wiring, flyback voltage killed it. Early releases seemed to have some code issues but all seems fixed now. Havent noticed anything wrong functionally. Never lost a file with key on key off cycles either. But yeah diagnostics is rather limited. Ofcourse its meant to be for offroad use lol

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Some guy, I can't remember his name, had an issue with a few sniper units, but I don't really recall hearing a lot of issues with Holley HP.

I'm on the fence about diagnostics. I've had situations where on an OBD2 I get multiple codes for nonsense, and other times the car almost die in traffic and not set a code.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

snipers are a different animal. My buddy and holley tuner wont touch them any more lol

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Unfortunate because the price and packaging is great. Software is effectively the same. Most of the complaints I've heard are do to RFI. (same issues with Megasquirt). A buddy of mine works at a custom shop and has installed a couple hundred. He said he's had about 6 that had issues. Not a terrible percentage but not great either.

I really like the Holley. The only thing that I will say that my GM PCM seems to do better is starting and throttle response on the MAF vs MAP. I've even tried tuning MAF on Megasquirt. Could never get it as good as factory MAF on the LT1. I've swapped to MAP using the GM PCM (it supports both fuel modes) and it's laggy and longer cranks, like a '730/'727 so it's definately something superior about the MAF + sequential injection + the cam position sensor.

If it wasn't for that, and the need to integrate into the CCM I would have swapped my LT1 car over to a Holley years ago.

I'm doing the 5.3 in the Camaro. It has a manual trans right now but I'm seriously thinking about 4L80E. I have zero experience tuning E trans with the Holley, but I'm hoping I can set it up so I can just leave it in drive at the track and get it to shift 1-2. 2-3 at a specific RPM and just keep the car straight. I ran the ratchet shifter in the Firebird and honestly think that's worse than a manual..

Are you shifting or letting the computer do it on your BBC car ?

-- Joe

jpearcy1

iTrader: (1)

Slightly off topic but if someone wants the bolt on efi like a Sniper the Terminator Stealth is the way to go. ECU is not mounted in the tbi unit (no rfi issues) and has the same options that the regular terminator and max offer. I debated the dynamic efi, megasquirt or holley systems before i decide on the terminator x max with 24x conversion.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

the start up tuning parameters seem to be very simplistic in Holley but they seem to work just fine. My car being mechanical fuel pump takes a few revolutions to get some pressure but its only reaching 8-10 psi during cranking, yet fires fine and very consistent even in cold weather. Took alittle playing around but it generally isn’t difficult. Theres an iac step position for initial air flow in you can tweak, a base cranking lb/hr fuel mass flow table vs coolant, and an afterstart enrichment % adder vs coolant you play with. Basic but is enough to work well imo. Probably would be very good if fuel pressure was 50 ish from the getgo with electronic pumps.

my shifter is full manual but operated by air solenoid thats controlled by Holley at certain rpm trigger. I only use that at the track under wot. On street im manually operating it by hand, the air is not applied

alan91z28

i know i am on one side of this fence at this point as for me i ended up deciding the problems with the GM were better for me than the problems with the Holley...

A real world example on diagnostics... 2 years ago when i dropped a valve and blew my LS3 / TVS Supercharged swap in my 85 IROC, i ended up swapping in a GM crate LS364 / 450 or whatever they call it, basically a 6.0L 24X gen iii with LS3 heads

Anyways since i had given up on holley by that point, i really lucked out as i was using a 411 in this swap. Within 100 miles i got cam pulse missing errors and was quickly able to determine due to the OBD II diagnostic and the detailed logging i can do with hp tuners it was a real issue. Within that night determined the cam was walking as the 3 cam gear bolts were loose on a brand new crate! fixed before a real problem and back in biz

everything is a choice, what i can imagine is why holley couldn't have their engine controller have basic features that have been in almost every OEM since our '82s were introduced!