85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

Have been having nothing but trouble getting my procharger belt to stay on. Procharger D1SC with the factory tensioner removed and a Dayco 89483 spring loaded tensioner added. The blower and crank pulley are in alignment with each other as well. When running the car the belt tracks off to the front of the crank pulley and will throw it when giving the car throttle. I've read through the other topics on this and cant come up with a solution . I just tried spacing the crank pulley out towards the radiator more and that didn't help anything either. Also, for anyone who added the spring loaded tensioner, how much movement do you have in it while idling? Will will rock back and forth at idle and almost contacts itself under throttle [not sure if it makes contact with a load on the motor} Any ideas here?

86CamaroDan

I would throw the factory tensioner back on just to see if it changes anything. I assume youve checked the belt and its not cut up anywhere right?

86Z

iTrader: (4)

when i had my procharger with the factory tensioner, i had to put some washers on the 2 long bolts by the alternator to angle it out or it did exactly what you said throw the belt off the crank a few ribs. when i tried an automatic tensioner if you have the pulley without ears on the end you will throw the belt.

best mod for my procharger was selling it and swapping in a 6.0 LS

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

Yes belt is fine. I will try and find my old tensioner set up. I will try washers on the mounting bolts. The tensioner pulley does not have the ears on it but when its walking off the crank pulley it is still located pretty centered on the tensioner. Its just weird because the pulleys are lined right up.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

talk to tony89gta he has done the auto tensioner

gbayfisher

In my limited experience with the Procharger set ups , the pulleys can be perfectly aligned with the engine off or idling, but as soon as you throttle the engine, the procharger brackets flex, and then start pulling the belts around. Mine kept wanting to walk forward as well, and it took a lot of shimming, to get it just right so the belt wont walk. I also added an adjustable stiffening arm to the lower end of the procharger , helped a bit more. I would recommend looking at the pulley assembly from the side of the engine , and take note of the flexing when throttling, try to go from there, and if the belt is walking, its a guarantee that the alignment is off somewhere down the line.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

do you a picture of it?

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

Even the vortech bracket needed to be shimmed to get the pullies to line up right. Go get a cheap laser level from home depot or harbor freight and use that to shine on the blower pulley down to the crank pulley to see which bracket you need to shim.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

I had a 4 foot level on the pulleys for alignment. I will try and get a picture of it. I added a support bracket to the lower back side of the procharger bracket as well.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Do you have all the braces in place for the brackets?

I had to shim my head unit when I ran the Procharger. It threw belts at first.

The bracket design is dumb.. It flexes.

-- Joe

gbayfisher

Thats exactly the issue, the flex... You can have the pulleys lined up lazer straight, and true, but it wont matter when the plate bracket flex's so much. The key is reducing , or preventing flex.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

i made a bracket off my header bolt and made a plate that i bolt to the bracket under the supercharger

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

This is how my Vortech is setup. No flex!

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

The engine needs to be brought up to/over 5000 RPM first before making that statement Joe lol.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

I have the Procharger alternator brace installed and a custom brace I made to the back lower side of my procharger bracket. The original 3/4" spacers from Procharger never worked with my set up. I have 5/8" spacers in between the blower and the bracket in order for it to line up with the crank pulley. Im curious if the lowest idler pulley by the crank or the tensioner are throwing it off. It will come off even at idle.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

Took some pictures of my set up. The lower idler pulley by the crank seems to be sitting crooked and it is tight.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I drive it a lot. I've actually had the shift light come on when the tires broke loose.

Last night coming back from the car show I got it to 6psi at part throttle. I can't go wide open on the street or the tires just light on fire.

I've been doing a lot of car shows lately. Lot of hot rods, t-buckets, drag cars at the shows. Car has been really reliable, other than a few transmission leaks. I'll stick it in the enclose trailer in September and flog it at the track.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I can't remember the dudes name who I sold my procharger too, might have been chris. He's on here but I don't recall any updates since he installed it. I wonder how he's doing.

I had the bracket flex issue initially but I got it resolved. It's just a poor designed bracket.

-- Joe

86Z

iTrader: (4)

that tensioner won't work there. you are going to hit the other end of the belt. the aluminum spacer has a centering ring on it for the crank pulley, do you have it installed correctly? also disconnect the fuel injectors/spark and just crank it to see if the belt pops off.

mine did the same thing, i put a washer end between the procharger bracket and aluminum spacers on both long bolts going into the head.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

I tried mounting the tensioner According to other pictures I have seen on here. Yes I have the crank spacer installed correctly as well. Belt will walk of as well by just cranking.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...ed-spring.html

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

I've read that thread over many times. The lowest idler pulley next to the crank seems to be sitting crooked just a bit. I don't think I'll be able to straighten it out without completely throwing off the rest of the systems alignment. I've read with Larry's brackets from ASSC that you delete this pulley completely. Can anybody using his braces confirm this? I would delete it but I'm not sure how it will work without the pulley there and also I'm not sure if they make a belt short enough to use after removing it.

tom86iroc

iTrader: (1)

i deleted it since mine will be a cog belt setup not sure u can with a serp belt.how is it crooked ?is it bent ?how about a new one?

86Z

iTrader: (4)

not sure why this is still an issue? the lowest idler pulley does sit crooked in relation to the crank. you need to shim the main bracket...

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

How many ribs on your crank pulley? Looks like four ribs to spare on the back side from your earlier pictures. Belt to supercharger pulley looks to be at an angle in that same pic.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

The crank pulley is 8 rib as well. It looks like that because I took that picture showing the belt walking off to the front of the pulley. I am currently swapping it over to a 12 rib set up and shimming the bracket around like 86Z said.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Wow they still have these issues? I had one of the first p600b kits way back in 97 or 96 dont remember. Thought they would have fixed this by now.When I moved up to the D1 it threw belts. The spacer and the crank pulley while lined up didnt run true until I had Lee over at ASP pulley make a complete one piece. Crank realistically should be double keyed if its built or your planning to build one. Btw. You can play with the crank diameter, as long as it clears the WP, to get more boost out of the blower with a larger D1 pulley for more wrap if your having slip issues as well, just an FYI. Another FYI, if you can get Gates Green belts, that is a very good upgrade and solved melting belt and friction issues on a few cars that switched over to them That said the bracket is flexing. You need a solid mounting bar or 2 off the back of it to the head like what was posted. When it works it's a great kit, but the crank and spacer dont run as true as they should. Good luck.

sparks454

iTrader: (1)

hi joe. Yep, it’s Chris. Still running your old blower. Funny how I actually was working on it tonight. Glazed my gates micro V and aligning things again with a new belt. Been working pretty well overall. Just not enough boost out of the P1 unit. Generating 6psi at 6400 rpm. Added a Cummins auto tensioner a few years ago and only helps a little. She runs fast though. Finished paint 2 years ago and just put on new 17” gta rims with race master DOT slicks , sticky ones. motor alone we built makes great power. Was wanting to sell this setup end of year and go with a F1a cog setup.

thought you were going turbo ??

take care

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hey Chris,

I hated the turbo. Made a ton of heat, took forever to make boost. I went back to blower, and settled on a T-trim for now.

I've got the car dialed in so it's dead reliable, I can run it all day in traffic and it doesn't overheat, no breakups or anything in the tune, just runs awesome. My only real complaint is the blower is a bit loud.

As far as boost, I'm experiencing the same issue. Boost limited. I'm seeing 4-6psi. I'm trying to figure out why, and I'm leaning towards my intercooler just being flow restricted.

Are you still using the megasquirt?

-- Joe

sparks454

iTrader: (1)

Hey Joe. Still running Megaquirt too. Just threw a blower belt tonight. I've got washers between long bolt spacers on head unit and 2 support brackets added to the bottom of the procharger bracket. Probably gonna remove the auto tensioner and go back to the Procharger tensioner. Belts stayed on that way but I had additional slippage. I should have stock in Gates belts..lol.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I wonder if the bracket is flexing. Remind me, is that an 8 rib setup?

When I made the brackets for my vortech I decided to have two brackets that sandwich spacers. They are bolted to the head and the water pump. 10 rib. No flex.

You might want to consider maybe a bracket from the back of the bracket to one of the exhaust bolts maybe?

-- Joe

sparks454

iTrader: (1)

I’ve added 2 additional brackets to that Procharger bracket. It’s an 8 run setup. I added a bracket from the
middle of bracket to the front of the head and a bracket/steel bar from the outermost bottom bolt on the head unit to the head exhaust bolt. I can live with some slippage but not snapping belts. I’m not doing much more modifying of this setup. The gates belt is a few mm’s too long in my opinion. I’m gonna try a shorter belt tomorrow. I’ll run it a few days before getting on it and see what happens

I’ll sell it all and go F1A and cog setup sometime this fall or next year.

no new tires

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/engi...rocharger.html

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Do you guys run the green belts or the new kevlar gates racing belts at all?

sparks454

iTrader: (1)

I’ve been running the gates green micro V. I’ve tried the D&D brand which is thicker and stronger but haven’t been able to get those to stay on. Just cranking over throws those off the front of the crank pulley

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

The RPM belts dont stretch like traditional belts even like the green fleet runner.

https://www.gates.com/us/en/power-tr...o-v-belts.html


Video of regular poly by under acceleration


Video of poly belt:

http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%...Ik5bo60Y-miPVU

Same car change to rpm belt:



Alot of deflection on deceleration. I had an original P600B way back when in 1997. The kit threw belts then right off the cuff. ATI did some changes to the bracket like add a second standard solid tensioner. Originally the belt run in my opinion was too long unsupported. If everything checks out on a straight edge buying or adding just a idler or adjustable tensioner can keep the belt from flapping off. The original bracket used to bend ever so slightly on the heavier head unit end under boost and the belt would walk off. Sorry dont know if the bracket is different from when I had a kit. Mine had 3 mounting points with spacers on the stock tpi bracket.

Jrocs89

Have you fixed your problem? If not I have a solution. I had the same if not similar issues with the Procharger setup.
Please let me know.

85Iroc-Z

iTrader: (4)

It seems to possibly be fixed after swapping to the 12 rib set up and using extra braces. I'll be able to tell once i can drive it more when the weather improves. Thanks

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

Getting mine finally going .... and would be interested in your solution in case an issue does comes up. I’m running 12 rib and it has been fine running open air, so hope that continues when the I/C tubing is connected.

Been fighting serpentine belt squeal issue myself. So I know how frustrating belt issues can be.

Jrocs89

I had an aluminum block made that bolts right above the top idler pulley. That helped stiffen up the mounting plate. Afterwards I set up the serpentine belt to mimic a cog belt configuration. I removed the lower ldler pulley next to the crank. I also removed the top idler pulley. I got rid of the original lower belt tensioner. It made no sense on why Procharger put itthere in the first place. Under load the bottom of the serpentine belt is tight and the upper section is loose. So I installed a heavy duty spring belt tensioner from a diesel engine approximately were the upper idler pulley used to be. This made a HUGE difference and just about resolved all of my belt slip issues. I did have my Procharger pulley sand blasted. And I went with a Gates RPM belt. I currently have a 5 inch pulley on my F1-D. I make 10 pounds of boost with no belt slip. And almost no belt residue under the hood.

Briggs1989

What bracket system are you using my current one will not work with my set up I don’t want to have to move my alternator to passenger side also what did you have to do to your power steering pump?

Jrocs89

Improved bas bracket with aluminum plate.

The lower dowel support and header flange bracket.


Since my last post I have made some improvements on my previously modified design. I was still having some flex in the improved set up that was causing my serpentine belt to walk back on the spring loaded tensioner pulley. Enough to have significant belt chatter at idle. This became even more pronounced when I tried to add another idler pulley on the bottom of the plate. But it is now fixed

I have stiffened the supercharger mounting bracket immensely. I had an aluminum plate machined and then bolted it to the back of the base bracket. I then made another stiffner that goes from the back up the new bracket to the driver's side #1 header flange. That stiffner consists of a solid steel dowel that is drilled and tapped on both ends. That dowel bolts to the back of the base bracket and then also to the homemade header flange bracket. I did NOT have to shim any of the aluminum dowels that came with the original kit once the mod was completed!

I did not realize how much the old bracket flexed just while the engine was idling. Prior to performing the upgrade I could release the spring tension on the belt tensioner and then slip the belt off of the supercharger pulley. After upgrading the setup, I played hell getting the original belt back on the supercharger pulley because there was no flex. After the improvements were made, When I started the engine the serpentine belt stays center of the tensioner idler pulley. Even under load. The belt is actually quiet at idle as well. Before the belt had an annoying chirp.

I have seen were people have had the belt slip off of the lower idler pulley near the crank. I had the same experience. I believe that this is another weak link in the design. The plate thickness is just too thin and it twists when the engine is turned ON and the belt begins to spin. That is why I eliminated that idler pulley from my design and set my serpentine belt routing to mimic a cog belt setup.