anesthes

iTrader: (12)

How tall are you?

Here is a picture of TTOP350's car. My head would wack that bar I think.




Is yours farther back? I know there is a 6" rule from the helmet, which tells me the bar should be able to go by the B piller if the seat is all the way back.

The other issue would be the side bars. As it is, my legs are up against the door panel. Looking at some of these pictures online, that bar would be an issue.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That pic looks weird to me like the hoop is too forward or maybe just the angle idk

I am 5’9 and my seats have a high head back area. Bar is built to spec. You can cheat the rule some by building seat back further than normal to fit the rule then moving seat up for normal driving

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So that's a custom bar, not a kit?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Few more

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Custom install but was a competition 8 pt “kit” for these cars but was very rough cut with plenty of material to cut off for custom fits

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Did you bolt it too ?

How does the track even inspect it once there is carpet in the car?? Do they pull up the carper in one spot and make sure you have the plates with the 4 3/8" bolts ?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No its all welded to plates as required by the book for stock floor unibody cars

They can inspect if they doubt your word lol never had a track do it tho.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hrmm. I'd love to just weld it. So just a top plate welded to the floor??

This is the image out of the rule book:




So, I assumed bolted and double plated as it says in the image. ?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah top plate welded all around to floor

Or

Bolt plates sandwich which seems a pita

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

the "Rocker sill" part through me, I thought it meant it legit had to be welded to the rocker. Which would only be the front two posts.

So any of them can be welded.. That's easier.

So if i want to certify the car for 10.0 I need:

5-pt roll bar
Engine diaper
transmission blanket/shield
Aftermarket Axles and C-clip eliminators
SFI restraints / belts

(In addition to my SFI balancer, driveshaft loop, screw in valve stems)


-- Joe

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

The bar in my car is a S&W kit. The pic makes it look funky but I'm fairly sure I could smack my melon on it.
Now that I've had it in there for several years, I know what I like and don't like about it so I can change a few things up when it I redo it (and hopefully lose some fatness)

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

What it really sounds like is the car isn't fun any more. Perhaps just sell it.

It is when the guy next to you is slower.
Not so much when the guy next to you is faster.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Seat backs are quit flexible and move a LOT in accidents. People move even more because factory belts don't keep you firmly tied down.

The guidelines for roll cages are built around the idea that the occupant is wearing a helmet and planted in the seat. Rigid seats, harness planting your body in the seat, helmet on head -- that's what racing is. If you want to be safe on the street then you're going to have to bend some rules.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Dig, I have to disagree. I think the problem is that there are no sanctioning bodies for these cars. Nobody cares for them, save for the remnant that are still here. The Fox body though, somehow it was able to keep new enthusiasts interested. Lots of boards doing very well out there w/other cars, even with Facebook being prevalent. I mean the amount of views with specific cars on youtube says it all, too. Top fuel cars back in the day were running fast, as were many muscle cars, so it isn't about running a number that everyone flocks to, it's about the type of car, the history and the people involved. Guys come here and read the bullcrap being put out by certain <cough> members <cough> and are immediately turned off, so the website suffers, and the vehicle is slowly phased out, and people just don't care. If something is not done with those members, and it seemingly never is, then like you said, the website becomes 100% dead. Most of the moderators are gone, hell I am shocked that Vader is still around. Traxion left a long time ago and went the STI route, which was a good choice, huge market for them, and they butt heads with the EVO so a healthy rivalry is alive and well. A perfect example for these cars is the new Cobra Kai series where Johnny is down and out while Daniel made it big, Johnny is seen using a flip phone and driving a third gen Firebird, with the image of him being broke and poor. That is what the world see's while everyone here argues about the same damn crap. Not to mention, Vortech dropped these cars a long time ago, but hey, they have a kit for my new daily driver lol. Who'd of thought...

- Rob

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

third gens make awesome race cars .. my stock suspension 3300 lb. iroc handled 3000 horsepower on drag radials with no problems .. went in the 180's to the 1/8th and well over 200 in the 1/4 letting out way early ... drove like a cadillac down the track ..

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

It's not worth anything.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The cars are not popular. Yet I can't even get near a first gen for less than $20k.

I don't dislike these cars. I'm just trying to find a purpose for mine. It's neither a great street car or great track car.

-- Joe

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Looking at your sig it seems you have a half-baked build. Big engine, weak 10 bolt, and a 3 speed trans.... It will make all the difference in the world if you don't have to worry about breaking parts and could drive places with an overdrive.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Joe, this website suffers from the classic case of not getting with the times. Think of all the work you put into your Formula, think of how you're going to make it much less streetable and enjoyable from a comfort standpoint, then realize that today's guys are averaging 9's the way the third gens used to average 13's back in the day, and they're doing it with less cubic inches, and full interiors. I mean is it really worth the hassle of transforming your Formula into a shark cage just to run the same number, hellz no. Steve is torn, and he might finish his Iroc just for the sake of finishing it, but he's not coming back after tasting what an Alpha GTR can do, no way no how. Remember who reads these threads, don't lose sight on how you want to build your car, in the end you need to be happy, not them.

- Rob

Today's street racers chase 8's the way we used to chase 11's. Roll up next to something like this on the street after your LSX with twin turbo swap and full cage, see how humbling it is, and these Evo's are everywhere over here. Make no mistake, they're that fast with much less, which is why I laugh at some of the things I read on here; big blocks, twin turbo's, back halves, giant tires etc, pro-street, but then you have a car that's not enjoyable anymore, and don't kidd yourself thinking it is. Give me a break. Even after all that the AWD cars are out launching them on the street with a nice and comfortable interior w/their seven eleven big gulp in the center console....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Dont get caught up in the hype. alot of those super quick imports are not reliable or maintenance free lol

Dog it all you want but my bbc with twins will make 1200 on pump gas without breathing hard and could go years without so much as changing oil and maybe lifting a valve cover to check lash. And 2000 is good gas and boost away

We have a lot of fast import shops. They are impressive but they never stay running for long. Or rarely make clean passes down track. In the lower power areas they are great. Nothing wrong with running 10’s

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

There is 100% truth to that.

The overdrive thing doesn't really bother me. Frankly, I just prefer to drive my other stuff.

I'll figure it out. I've built a few high 11 second thirdgen over the past 25 years with 10 bolts and they were fun at the track. I think maybe I could have accomplished that again with a smaller cube engine and less blower. The problem is I have an engine with a lot of potential as a 9 second mill, but no supporting parts (safety or drive train).

I'll figure it out. It's not like I have a deadline.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

And they idle like turds and drive like them too, like most 9 second cars.

When I used to race ihra in the 90s and early 2000s 10 seconds was fast. Last fall I was watching fwd cars running 8.60s effortless, and the old farts with the 60s muscle we're running 11s. It's a serious WTF situation.

Both probably overheat in traffic LoL


-- Joe

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Joe, just step up the trans an rear then you'll have something you can pound on at the track or on the street without worrying about it.. I put two tanks of fuel through my car last sat and pounded on it all day. That's what's fun to me.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

For the most part they are tuned well but they still dont seem to be driven on street much.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Our local board had around 100 or so guys on it 10 years ago posting daily. actually, our local drama is specifically why many people were posting. all kinds of cars. mustangs, vettes, fbodies, trucks, etc. all of a sudden within a couple month time frame people dropped off and started using facebook instead. Today, many people dont even own a pc or laptop. same thing happened here and pretty much all of the other boards im on. i'm guilty of the same thing, i check in here every other day or so, but otherwise i use my phone mostly to browse fb or instagram.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I work in IT (I'm a CTO) so I'm at a PC all day. But for most people I know that don't work in the IT field, yeah, they don't own a PC/MAC any longer.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yup our local board partly died because of social media aka fb. We maintain our et list on fb now and hold discussions on our own pages or group pages now.

I have a laptop for tuning but use phone to go online anymore

Jay_rich

iTrader: (4)

Good read . I like a good heated forum thread lol. I havnt been on here in a while, seems like too many on this forum are still stuck on the TPI that it didn’t make sense to keep my thread going. Personally no issues with anyone on here.

Jay

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Justin, Joe, Dig, it's not about getting caught up in the Import world, as I know they have their problems, but the reality is they are not breaking down anymore, and when they did it was mainly an axle issue, but their aftermarket stepped up. As for it feeling and being different in terms of running sub ten seconds, no it isn't. I used to think the same way, until we were beaten by a turbo Civic heading back to NYC one evening (we were in a ten second '87 GN), not to mention when I drove in one myself. Once the videos of your rides start coming be sure to line up next to one, and I mean an equally powered one, not a stocker, street or strip, doesn't matter. This is what I was planning on doing, not just showcasing a nine second 305 because that really is nothing special, but I was planning on racing everything I came across and throwing it up, win or lose, just to show you what is out there because this board seems behind with the times... at most times.

Again, Justin built one hell of an Iroc, but he has been sitting on that run ever since and is patiently waiting to run again, so it's not right to criticize an Import that is currently running and chasing 8's, which that kid in the video most certainly will reach this year. Until Joe's ride is seen on the track and running a number, you can't criticize the same Import Joe. Nines aren't that easy for lower RPM engines in comparison with high winding Imports, so launch, traction and weight becomes the issue, so if you bring it to the track Joe, and can't break out of the 11's, you need to retract what you said about the Imports above, it's only right, cuz they do it easy...

Steve had the right idea, just for the wrong car. He should have built that 4200 Atlas engine for the Iroc, it was GM's answer to the 2JZ. We also had the opportunity to screw around with the 32 valve engines GM put out over the years, but nobody did, either too broke, or simply stuck in SBC land with that mentality being the core reason why this website is held back, old fashioned thinking. What was the outcome? Pushrod engines making power 6000-RPM and below, while skating their way down the track because they needed to launch hard, making too much torque, while not losing traction. Why do you think street Supra's launch easier than us, yet trap higher. RPM. Why do you think the average street third gen fan loves to watch burnouts, cuz that's all street third gens were ever good for <waving the confederate flag in the air>

- Rob

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Running or not has no bearing on what i can or cant say. I have a lot of import friends. 8 sec championship winning civics supras and plenty of 9 sec evo’s talons etc. getting that power out of a small package like that is impressive but dont fool yourself into thinkin that is something they can easily daily drive or go a full season without maintenance

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Hmm, lookie lookie who won.

Seems to be becoming the norm lately, and they're only getting faster...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Yeah no doubt on an poor surface awd runs hard and always have.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

your outlook on this is backwards from mine. from my standpoint, it is somewhat more difficult to make a quick drag car out of a high winding civic or the like. thats why you see them running 150+ and only go a 9.x. the low rpm pushrod engines you mention needing to launch hard do it because they can. a thirdgen makes a better drag car than a civic point blank period. what 32v gm engines are you talking about, the LT5? those arent exactly growing on trees.
i may be old fashioned, but i did go 9's with my thirdgen.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I agree dig, the only cars is see skatin down track are the fwd and awd cars. A prepped track rwd rules. Et is all in the first 330 ft so the faster you 60 ft the better you will be. Exactly why a civic goes 8.5’s at 180 while i can do 8.5’s at 155-160. Fwd is a poor platform for drag race.

Low rpm is less stress on internal parts from rotating standpoint and easier on valvetrain. Low rpm power and torque however can be more stressful to internals as cyl pressure is higher at lower rpm. If your motor is built right, then its not an issue. Gotta balance the application. Stock bottom end lsx 4.8-5.3 do best making big power at high rpm, 7000-7500, some turn near 8k. Not bad for a pushrod motor eh?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i was off on my civic mph, i should have said 160-170+. lol
and, of course that car would destroy a typical similar et rwd drag car from a roll due to power/weight ratio.

i would like to know how many cubic yards of cash were injected into the fastest gtr. impressive for sure, but it didnt come easy.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I can tell you a fast built gtr cost more than my house truck and twin turbo bbc build does

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I don't think the issue is that our cars aren't fun. I think some people have forgotten how to have fun with their car.

I just got back from a short trip to the store and getting some food. Didn't break 45 mph and had a lot of fun. The cherry on top was when I heard somebody say to his family, Wow, look at that car!, followed by a whistle of appreciation. And I did it all in a lowly base model Firebird with a pushrod V8.

By the way, I saw a guy in a Civic and it didn't look fun.
He didn't look fun either. Grumpy looking if you ask me.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

you are right. and alot of people are into cars for "the look" or attention or to be a part of a "thing". those people tend to sway whichever the crowd goes.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I am completely comfortable with the idea that somebody who spends $150K on a car should be able to whoop my ***.

I could buy a GTR too but I refuse to use my money that way. Confucius say, "Spend money, then money you have not." Or maybe it was Yoda. I don't know, just made it up anyway.... but it's still true!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If his house, truck, and turbo build was only $150k sign me up!

I actually saw a GTR on the highway the other morning. Until ZZ3Astro mentioned it, I've never noticed one before. I wouldn't really think it's an exotic car, looked like every other BMW or Mercedes sitting in traffic.

I'm not really into Japanese cars. I do like Ferarris and Lotus vehicles. There is a lot of those around here, and I've been kinda itching to buy one. But at the same time I don't know that I would care for it enough, and I have limited garage space until I build the new shop.

On another note, a '92 Corvette with a 6spd and 3.45 Dana44 was offered to me yesterday. Tempted to buy it and do a blown LT1 build.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

X100 for real haha

I bet its 150g just for the entire engine and driveline to handle big power on top of the already high vehicle cost. They arent light cars

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm failing to see why he likes them. It literally looked like a 45k car to me.

In all honestly, the Jeep I bought last summer is fun as heck. It was only $38k, the top comes off, chicks dig it. It handles great. I've been driving that a lot lately. I tried towing one of my boats with it once, and that was scary AF so we won't be using it for that, but it's a fun beach vehicle.

-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

yes. i havent really looked into it, but to get 2000+ whp out of that engine footprint i would have to assume billet block.... well billet everything.
to get the drivetrain/trans to handle that i would figure much of the same custom components and billetry. probably hired an engineering team for alot of stuff.

i like the tech in the gtr, but im not really drawn to the car's looks. its not much of an eye catcher in stock form (for that much money), as anesthes mentioned.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Not for nothing but some of you guys are living in denial, either that or in your own little world lol. One hundred and fifty grand lmao? Seriously lol? The money is for the brand, not necessarily the drive-train. I mean a Lambo is powered by Audi, you think that is why they cost so much? What separates a Louis Vuitton from a regular no frills brand, it's just a name, both serve the same purpose. I mean E-Spec, for one, same guys who built the Evo in the above video, has built and builds automatic 4G63's for years now, easy low nines, some even in the eights nowadays. You think this automatic AWD Eclipse had cost them over 100,000 grand to build? You think it's that costly to fix if it breaks? Kinda scratching my head with some of what I am reading. I mean Joe, you bring up dollars, yet you're contemplating another low cost LT1 vette to add to your collection lol? Those cars continue to depreciate in value, so it would make more sense to buy a car that does it all, rather than five to worry about and lose money with. That is why GTR's cost what they do... demand.

- Rob

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Sell your stuff and build an import. What is stopping you?

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

And post your time in the 1/4 mile sticky too. We need more people to participate.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...92-f-body.html

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Why are we comparing an eclipse to a gtr. thats a 25 year old $3k car vs a new $70k car. same as comparing a thirdgen to a couple year old ZR1. and a 850hp 9 second eclipse is not a 2000hp 7 second gtr.

in terms of depreciation, a thirdgen or c4 vette isnt losing squat. they cant go any lower. a new gtr is losing several thousand+ a year in value. i think steve said himself he basically spent 20 grand to "rent" a gtr for several months. if i had more money in the bank i might not care about the car payment and depreciation, but for now im pretty dang broke so ill keep my turds.

i bet the billet block in the quickest gtr is over $20k by itself. probably 100k just in the engine - basically a 3k hp v8 with 2 cylinders lopped off. nearly every part in that car would be custom one off or fabricated. faaar from a simple cheap setup. i imagine the actual money spent on that car are staggering and most would call bs.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

This is a weird thread and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what is going on here. Let me get this straight....

Two guys that built their own cars are arguing that it is the car's fault for not being fast and they are unhappy about it. And they are making that argument with two other 3rd gen owners that have fast cars.

Doesn't that seem idiotic?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Got me. My car is fast, too fast. Not quite as fast as dig's, but faster than Justin's for now since it hasn't run in 3 years lol

I just need to put a cage and a bunch of other things in the car so it can be legal.

Rob, I'm thinking of adding another lt1 car cuz I can. It's not a this or that , but rather a this and that.

Maybe take the plates off the thirdgen and make it a dedicated racer?

All though, I saw a build thread the other day on a c4 with the body removed and replaced with a 7.0 et cer cage. Looks neat.


-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

You seriously need to do some research lol

The 1500 hp alpha 12 package is 93,000$ from titan motorsports.

That does not include the car lmao

Nothing to do with brand. Everything to do with custom one off pieces that only a select few make. That costs money and they can charge whatever they want because its so custom