customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Any idea how I can gravity feed or vacuum feed my OEM whiper fluid container to fill my snow performance water/meth container? The meth container is slightly lower than the stock wiper container. My whiper cap is the version with the hose nipple on it and mine does not have a built in pump. Figure if I drill a hole in the top of my snow performance container and run a nipple with hose to the cap of my stock wiper fluid the vacuum from the fluid being sucked out could draw the fluid from one to the other. But the snow tanks cap is also some kind of vent so it prob won't work. It would need to vent to allow fluid to be ol gravity fed to the pump.

Basically what I'm trying to do is let the OEM wiper tank refill automatically the snow tank so I can increase my fluid capacity without mounting a huge cumbersome tank.

Any ideas?

Here's a pic of what they look like.

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

Can you make an equalization tube between the tanks? That would involve drilling both tanks toward the bottom and connecting them together with some plastic tubing. That way, gravity would maintain the same level in each tank thereby increasing your volume, no vacuum or syphon action needed. Because the meth tank is vented, you would never get the syphon action to pull from the wiper tank. You could block off the vent on the meth tank and then vent the wiper tank but you would still be dependent on a good bit of syphon which with the tanks almost equal level would not be very good. JMO!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Yea thanks, Thats was my first idea. Basically drill 2 holes in each tank, use a self sealing 1/4" hose bulkhead fittings for meth containers and run a small bit of hose between the 2.

My only concern is over filling? Since the 1 tank is a good bit higher than the other that would mean I would never be able to completely fill the OEM tank as it would try to level out the 2 which could over fill the snow tank and push fluid out the vented cap or block the caps ability to vent.

maybe placing the hose connections at the bottom of the OEM tank and more towards the top of the snow tank could help? Just worried that the fluid would have to flow upwards which doesnt do well in a gravity setup.

It would prob run me $30-$40 in fittings.

Another option is to run a Tee under the snow tank and connect the 2 tanks into the 1 line that feeds the pump. This would be best as it would pull from both tanks and solve my problem!

W72

iTrader: (9)

Julio at alkycontrol used to make his TTA methanol kits using a N.O.S. coolant recovery tank as the alky reservoir and then supplied us with a 1 quart remote mount coolant jug to stash "somewhere" else.
Being it's large capacity and bottom feed it was ideal, I could drive an hour each way to the track, make a half dozen passes and not use half of it up on a 2 nozzle system.

Just a suggestion....

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Got a link to the recovery tank?

Personally I think 3 qts will last a while of regular street driving where I don't think I could blow through it in a hour or so of driving.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thinking of putting a bulkhead fitting from Devils own wich has a screen and the 1/4 nylon fitting. Then run a tee to connect both tanks into 1 like that feeds the pump. I should have about 1.5 gallons total which is a lot lol. Then maybe I could run a second nozzle also down the road.

W72

iTrader: (9)

This is the horky little coolant recovery tank he includes with the kit to replace the factory coolant tank.

http://www.alkycontrol.com/#!product...c-c909f20d89fa

And it seems he's not offering a TTA specific kit, but here's a GN kit which shows what that he uses the G body coolant tank and the mini coolant jug.

http://www.alkycontrol.com/#!product...d-5c59ae0b18ea

But you get the idea....find a good used tank, or use yours, and just replace it with a small recovery tank....I think Hawk's is re-popping the 88-92 coolant tanks now, so you'd get a nice clean one.

and FWIW, I regretted using 2 nozzles, it was a nightmare tuning for the additional methanol and I went back to a single M15

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Thanks for the links!

Well I can't use the OEM style recovery tank as I have a supercharger sitting in the way of it lol. My only option is the OEM wiper tank which u can see in the pics. I found my old one which isn't "clean" lol but I plan to paint it black anyway so it blends in with the wheel well towers. I don't care about being able to see the level as it takes 2 sec to pop the cap on either tank.l but the eye soar that it is makes painting it a good option. I though about getting a new wiper tank and still might but figured I would modify the old stocker and paint and see if I like it first.

I also need to keep the tanks higher than the pump for a good gravity feed. My pump is mounted to the underside of the battery tray on the driver side so all my tanks need to be higher than that point.

I also rock the battery in the pass side battery tray mainly bc I converter my setup over to a remote solenoid for the starter and all my custom fuse blocks etc are on the pass side firewall. Most of the OEM engine bay wiring is gone from when it got hacked up when they stole my car and took the drivetrain and EFI. So I remade off of it for my setups thus far. So I don't have any room but the pass side battery tray area for anything which not houses my jegs billet coolant recovery tank, wiper tank,snow performance tank, meth pump, roll control solenoid and soon to be wiring relay for the meth pump. If I didn't have the overflow recovery tank there I would have a bit more room for a larger square meth tank.

What did u hate about the 2 nozzle setup? The tuning from the flow of both nozzles? From what I hear/read is that smaller nozzles are better than a larger nozzle as they create better atomization. So maybe run two of the smaller nozzles instead of the single large. Personally it's my only form of IAT control and I plan to run 89-93 pump gas but I still have no idea how much I actually need to inject or what nozzle is correct.

I guess I should state that I currently am using my old but never really used snow performance stage 1 NA meth kit. So it's a single meth nozzle setup, hi pressure pump, small 3 qt tank and a vacuum Hobbs switch. They tell me it will read to 15psi but I can't seem to adjust it for positive pressure as I adjust i can only hear it click when I suck on it. It's a 3 jet kit, and they are rated in CCs... 275, 375 and 500 I think. I'm currently on the middle one.

What I got to add on is a 16psi Devils own check valve as I didn't want to worry about solenoid wiring and failing. So It won't allow boost to push the fluid back into the tank. It will also allow instant pressure and no "after drip" when it shuts off.

What I'm thinking of getting is:

Devils own float level sensor
1/4" push connect Tee fitting
10-20Ft of new hose
Self sealing bulk head fitting with push connect fitting for stock wiper tank.
Total cost of like $50 or so.

Might just get the dual nozzle upgrade kit as it comes with a tee fitting some hose and an extra nozzle holder. That way I can add the smaller nozzle down the road if I need more and don't feel like going with the biggest nozzle. Float level sensor will alert me when I'm getting low so I know to add more. But I'll just check it before I take it out since it's a weekend fun/show car.

W72

iTrader: (9)

I didn't hate the dual nozzle, it was just very hard to tune around. The 148 Turbo Buick ECM by today's standards is very slow and very limited. Outside of cold start it really didn't reference the IATs. So I had this detonation issue crop up around the 1000' mark and it looked like a second nozzle was the answer if I wanted to not pull timing or turn the boost down, what it did though was introduce even more methanol that was also an added fuel that the ECM had no idea was being introduced. And it just seemed it was so much that it started blurring the lines between a MPFI to throttle body injection. A second issue was that my nozzle location was too close to the throttle blade in the up pipe and the methanol wasn't really atomizing enough to effectively cool down the intake charge.
When I went back to the single nozzle and moved it further down stream it solved allot of the detonation issues(along with new valve springs) and I was no longer drowning the charge mixture with methanol that wasn't able to be compensated for by the limits of the 148 ECM.
Now most of that doesn't apply to our situation with the newer PCM's that can see high IATs and pull timing as needed along with the knock sensor. And I'm a believer in methanol as a cooling and octane supplement to a point and I will add a kit down the road but I'm running an IC right out of the gate, and till I get a handle on tuning the 0411 and can work in alky to the tune as a supplement.
You really have no choice but to run alky or turn the wick down to a boring level and I do remember when the coolant jugs dried up in supply some of the TTA guys were retrofitting the 4th gen washer jugs under the filler panel in front of the radiator as an alternative , maybe you could look into that too.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

ok, I understand. I'll look at the 4th gen wiper tanks.

Totally understand about the ECMs, I expect a huge difference when I start tuning with the 0411 LS ECM vs my 87 TPI ECM that I used to tune with Moates hardware.

I also plan to use/depend on the IAT sensor for tuning with the 0411 ECM. I will need it to sense when the meth/water is being sprayed to keep (or not pull as much) timing. If it doesn't see a drastic drop in IAT temps then it is to assume the meth is empty or not working and will pull lots of timing as a fail safe. Since my donor engine was a MAF truck I had to delete the MAF sensor which also houses the IAT sensor. So i put an aftermarket IAT sensor in the EGR plug port in the intake. I hope that spraying the water/meth in the charge pipe will atomize enough for the IAT to sense a drop in temp to keep everything running smoothly. well that's the plan at least lol. swapping to a SD base tune in HPT is my biggest worry as I know SD is not as easy to tune as MAF and its much more picky. So transferring everything over and converting the stock data from MAF to SD is going to worry me.

Where you injecting straight meth? 50/50 mix? wiper fluid? or a custom mix? I only ask as you could have lowered the meth content or just sprayed straight water in the 2nd nozzle to get around the added fuel of the meth. I don't plan to spray anything more than 30% or wiper fluid as Its more about the cooling than the octane for me. I'm sure I would be fine with 91-93 pump gas and no cooling at all but my IAT temps would be pretty horrendous probably. Given its a stock 5.3 with stock compression and only 10-12psi.

How did you mount an IC on your TA/GTAs? I'm not a fan of cutting the bumper or squishing a large IC before the rad which is the only real way to do it on the birds.

W72

iTrader: (9)

This was my dual nozzle up pipe,one M10, one M15...then 2 M10s....just too hard to control with my limited chip tuning at the track.


Then this is what I ended up doing after consulting guys much smarter than me in the turbo Buick world. You can see I moved it down and went with one M15. I had it tip in at around 9 psi and all in by 12-14 psi. I ran the highest purity straight meth I could find, not VP stuff but close. With this setup I went 11.34-11.4 all night long and never touched the tune. With the dual nozzles I was tuning around the extra fuel after every pass and was struggling to keep it consistent at 11.6-11.8....but again those old ECM's don't know what they don't know.



As far as my current IC, this is the only picture I have and you barely see it between the frame rail impact bar horns.



It's treadstone center/top outlet for Vettes and vipers and such, high CFM flow rating and capable up to 900 HP. It's first in line then about 2 1/2" behind it is the Fluidyne tranny cooler and then the 3 core radiator that is 2 5/8" lowered in the core support.

Tons of room and easy as bending 3/16" plate and migging the angle(s) to the frame horns and bolting in the IC between...I should have taken better pictures and I've already hung the nose back on.

I do have a front license plate, so I opened up a 3" X 6" oval in the bumper cover behind the license and having a matching opening cut into the impact bar's face so I can lift the license plate out and have a straight shot of air rammed at the intercooler. Will it help??? I hope so.....

But your thinking is right about using the IAT sensor to pull timing when or if the methanol runs out or fails, it's the go to "fuse" set up in the C5/C6 boosted world.

W72

iTrader: (9)

And I ran meth on the TTA for cooling and added octane,meth has a stoich around 7:1 or so and I disciovered that it drove my ideal gas stoich leaner,so I also added WOT fuel and that calmed down the detonation issues at the big end of the track too.

W72

iTrader: (9)

I did find some IC photos on my phone, so forgive the poor quality.


..




and that hole in the bumper cover behind the license plate.

..

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Very clean setup! Good info about the meth as well.

Your motor also seems to be farther back than mine. Set back mounts? I tried to mount mine 1" back but would have caused too many issues (shortening DS etc) so it sits in the stock position.

I too thought about cutting a hole in the bumper but just can't bring myself to do it lol. I dont run a front license plate bc it ruins the look of the car. Plus since mine is QQ registered it doesnt really come out like a DD. I eventually might fab up a small scoop or remove the fog lights for tubing to an IC or something. For now tho... just the meth lol.

Side note. hows that trans cooler working out for you? My current one is massive, from a ford superduty F450 and honestly its like a mini radiator. I thought about stepping it down to a smaller unit eventually and Ill see how it runs with the 5.3. But I had to add a trans thermostat in to warm the trans up due to the overcooling of the massive cooler.

W72

iTrader: (9)

The engine just kinda "wound up" sitting where it was. It's sitting in a LSx UMI K-member with their LS engine stands, other than adjusting for center and drivetrain angle, it is where it is. If it helps, the block face is 2 1/2" from the firewall at the top.

That tranny cooler is a Fluidyne and I ran the same brand and size one in the TTA, it's a pretty big fin and plate and has a low pressure drop. I had -6AN male fittings put on it. I have to say that I was never nice to that 200R4 in the TTA and often sat on the transbrake at above 10 psi of boost, I heated it up pretty good and it kept that 3600 stall non lock and 200R4 safe, so I'm trusting it'll do the same for the 4L80e with a 3400 stall lock up.

And I bought this car with the front plate already on it, so I wasn't really hurting it any further. I did buy another nose that is untouched just in case my front feeder hole doesn't pan out. And I agree I'll probably get rid of the OEM air dam and make an aluminum scoop underneath, along the lines of what I've seen done on other T/As here. Pontiac put an I/C scoop on the TTA, it wasn't engineered real well and didn't scoop much air but it helped some.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

hmm the LSX kmember... prob in the original SBC location... I dont think they offer them in setback locations. Its prob just your accessory bracket distance. Since I'm running truck accessories its 1.5" farther forward than corvette and .75" farther out than Fbody accessories.

Yea there is a guy who sells them on ebay in bulk and they are like $60 each with nipple fittings. I was almost going to pull the trigger vs trying to keep my massive cooler but decided to just add a thermostat. If I need the room and find my cooler is still too much I can always downsize my cooler. When you say "safe" what temps did it get up to and hover around?

W72

iTrader: (9)

You're probably right, the C5 balancer is flush(ish) as opposed the F body's and the truck balancer, so it's probably an illusion that it sits further back.

I used the word "safe" as generality in that I never caused any damage from heat, never burnt any fluid (Type F) or darkened it, I confess that I never had a temp gauge on the transmission so I can't tell you how well the Fluidyne worked vs. a smaller or different brand, size. But again, I treated that 200 like a rented mule also I had over run the interior with gauges and a tranny temp gauge wasn't even on my radar and the 148 ECM doesn't monitor that parameter.

Oddly too, there was that point in this build where I seriously considered using another 200R4 rather than the 4L80e and because of it's smaller case and my known history with it of reliability. Lots of guys curse them, but my GN buddy goes 10.8s on a 5 year old Janis Trans build and has no problems.

But if you've got the space for the cooler you're using I wouldn't bother changing it till it becomes a physical obstacle.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Gotcha! And don't get me started on type F trans fluid lol. U should take that out and run a better fluid. My words of caution are "firmer shifts" illusion created by slipping and sudden lockup giving u the feeling of increased firmness. So far dextron 6 and Mercon 5 are the best/recommended.

I totally love the 2004R by far my most favorite trans and I've had a 700r4 and C6 and now the 2004R in my bird. Used a trans from a Monte Carlo and rebuilt it myself but had issues due to mismatched VB in the original trans. I used a billet hard parts and soft parts kit from CK performance. The guy over there is the godfather of 2004R and Buick t-types and wrote the bible on the 2004R. Had him go through it and he fixed everything. Mine is rated to 800hp/tq and with small hard part upgrades I could have 1000hp capability. The gear spread over the 700 is noticeably better but it's more expensive to build and more difficult. Also the trans mount is so far back making a crossmember was a PItA.

W72

iTrader: (9)

I only ran Type F at the direction of the tranny builder, frankly it's not easy to find around here anyway, but the 4L80e has Dex III in it, again at his request. Out side of that I don't know enough about tranny fluid to have a favorite flavor.

On a side note I believe this is the weekend I'll fire up the new engine for the first time, hopefully nothing weird happens.