project89

iTrader: (1)

64 miles each way , i live in the middle of bum *** nowhere

1991sleeper

iTrader: (-3)

Lol y I moved to alabama and it's still cold as a witches tittie .. 12* tomorrow night

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Kinda sounds like where I want to move when I retire.

-- Joe

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

Night and day difference with the new turbo Joe. I have a video in this forum doing a rolling 2nd gear heater 400+ ft

willexoIX

Only 32° here tomorrow night, lol.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I sure do, and I can't believe that video that I just watched. Fire? Seriously? It's obvious what contributed to it. What the heck does MS stand for in the ECM world anyway, Multiple Sclerosis lol? Dave, I cannot believe you went this long in dealing with that crap, as your fuse is just as short as mine. Get another system and be done with it already. On another note, I am glad you went single turbo this time around, and am looking forward to seeing how you set up those headers. We miss you over at e-town buddy...



- Rob

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

It stands for "not manufactured 30 years ago and slightly modified in a dudes basement".

Hey Rob - speaking of basements, I was cleaning out my dad's the other day and I found a Commodore vic20 computer, maybe you can use it to accelerate your EBL ?



-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

not the ms's fault was my fault for the way i wired it up the injectors power, ill upload some pics here shortly , i fiished up the driver side header today and got it wraped though the wrap i bought is to damn stiff it didnt wrap really nice

project89

iTrader: (1)

header

the nice stepped vbands i bought



and the pile of other parts i bought

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Nice!

Are you using a vband for the exhaust on the turbo?

I'm tempted to weld a pipe right to my exhaust housing and using a ball/socket flange. Even the slightest pressure from my downpipe and I get a leak at the turbo.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

get some copper sheet and cut urself a gasket for the downpipe vband , coat both sides with a thin film of copper seal , it wont ever leak again.

im using the vband on my downpipe , i may give the turbine housing to a friend to cut a receiver groove in the housing to accept a stepped male vband flange on the downpipe.

if u have ot buy any vbands buy stepped assembles they seal up much much better , if u need to know were to get them let me know and ill send u a link on ebay

pmcruz781

These MS systems seem so complicated, I don't have the patience to deal it. Good for you for pressing on.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Easier than the stock stuff. Just one cable. Power it on and tunerstudio connects. Self tunes most things for you. I don't get why people have problems.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That's exactly what I did last spring. My valvecover is still full of soot.

The problem is the vband clamp flattens out and it can't hold the two sides together anymore. A large gap is created. I've tried a few different clamps, including a $90 vibrant one. They are all made of soft stainless.

I've got a spare 3" ball/socket flange, I think I'm just gotta weld that up to the turbo housing.

-- Joe

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Actually it is the fault of the MS system, the injector driver circuit isn't designed correctly. The fix as stated in the MS manual is a band-aid to cover the poor design.

The statement that the MS is in an 'indeterminate' state is bogus, it is powered OFF. So the injector drivers should also be off, since they are not there is an issue with the design.

RBob.

project89

iTrader: (1)

it is what it is at this point , ive done a ton of ms cars, once u get past the errors in the manual , and a few small goofy things it works great

project89

iTrader: (1)

put a couple tacks around the clamp assembly so it cant spread , they usually spread from beingover tightened

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well no, the fault is failing to read the manual. He wired it differently than
GM wired the car from the factory and had a problem.

Is it a valid argument that the MS should keep the circuit open when OFF? sure, but that was not the design intent.

Since any number of things can cause the injectors to ground the appropriate wiring would be to have them on a switched circuit, which is why I suspect GM and other OEM's do it that way.

It's too bad GM didn't use the same failsafe wiring on the fuel pump circuit. Use an oil primer with the ignition off and the fuel pump will energize. I guess that's why every procedure starts with disconnecting the battery.

-- Joe

willexoIX

Mine is wired as stock with the MS, when the key is off, the injectors and everything else are off.

As Joe said, Dave wired his differently than stock, how is that the MS's fault.

And as for the MS being complicated; I have NEVER done an ecm swap, NEVER tuned a car, NEVER did a turbo install until now, and the MS was a breeze, and the car runs great. Did I mention I have never even heard of MS before my install? Seemed pretty simple to me.

willexoIX

Joe, I am also going ball and socket connectors for my next build. Though the stepped vbands look appetizing, the price doesn't.

I may do 1 stepped vband on the back of the turbo, but thats about it.

Joe, stupid question, but did you tap around the vband with a hammer while tightening?

willexoIX

Not very complicated at all. May look intimidating, but its really not.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i got mine for 11.99 each cause the seller screwed up his listing but he honored it

heres the 2.5 steped vbands 20$ for the entire assembly
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371225917756?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Well I don't know about the other cars, I just know about the V6 you were running when rolling with us, and this one, and both seem to only work for you with the timing being locked. There always seems to be timing and fueling issues though with everyone Dave, while those who claim no issues never provide video's, or if they do have issues deliberately hold back from sharing them. Some members will say "well, you have to know how to use the extensive and complicated tables", but even if that were the case, it throws the term user friendly right out of the window, especially when you consider how complicated it is just to set the damn thing up. I had my EBL-P4 installed and running the engine in twenty minutes, no hiccups whatsoever. I don't know Grippo and Bowling on a personal level, never spoke to them, but I do know and have spoken to Bob Rauscher, Cal Hartline, Eric Marhsall and Bob Bailey, and all of them don't even bother with Megasquirt, so I take what is said about Megasquirt by forum member's like a grain of salt. This is how behind in the times this website has become, you have a new and completed version of the super $8D code (no boost) that was just released after years and years of research and work, a "collective" effort. Meanwhile, RBob gave us a super and boosted $8D code years ago! The moment I installed my EBL-P4, I already had it, just like every other EBL user, and the upgrades keep coming. People just cannot for the life of them see beyond the end of their noses on this website which is why there is never any progress. Everyone wants to be the best welder, to be the best fabricator, to be the best tuner, to be the greatest electronics expert, what nonsense. Meaning, I can ask 15 guys from NYCE1's if they want to run against my third gen brethren next week just for fun, how many are ready to run? How many literally do run? How many can even start? Catch my drift...

Anyway... the headers are coming out great, excellent fabrication.


MegaSquirt® EFI controllers are for experimental and educational purposes. No warranties are expressed or implied. Neither Al Grippo nor Bruce Bowling are responsible for the construction, installation, or targeted use of this unit. This unit has been tested on many engines, however, it is an experimental unit and the end-user assumes all responsibilities for its use and application. Do not use in an aircraft which, if the unit fails or ceases to operate properly, can fall out of the sky. Do not use on a boat where, if there is a failure, results in a situation where the vessel is stuck in a hurricane and sinks to the bottom of the ocean. In other words, follow the manual carefully, and seek authoritative help if you have questions. This FAQ, our manual, and our forums are solely for the support of MegaSquirt® boards by Bowling and Grippo.

Multiple Sclerosis for the win....!

project89

iTrader: (1)

i purposely locked the timing on the v6 car , it liked it.
on this car i have full timing control , and what i thought was an ignition cutout was actually false ae triggering , i had the threshold set to low so it was 2-3x ing my pulsewidth when it was triggering causing huge rich spikes.


ive got so much work to do this winter its not even funny. my columbia river mandrel bend order has been delayed 4 days now it shoudl be here today but according to tracking it still inst on the way even though columbia river called ups yesterday to fix the adress.

soon as i come up with another 100$ ill have that ultrabell/trans case and manual vb and transbrake comming from joe so i can start putting the th350 together.
and then im going to purchase an fti 3500 stall

i may dig the dana 60 out today if my tubing doesnt arive and start figureing out how im going to build a tq arm mount on it

and i still need to get the dam cage in the car, though im not in a rush with my back the way it is im in no hurry to be climbing in and out of the car but i do need to get it done before spring time

im going to try my hand at some carbon fiber door panels unless i can find a cheap source to buy big enough carbon fiber panels i can just cut to size


btw joe i have almost the full amount now r u willing to work on the price a lil bit?

project89

iTrader: (1)

btw i forgot to ask what the biggest tire i can put on those 15x8s i know the 275's fit fine
the 28x10.5's on the vs car didnt work all to well with the 8 inch wide rims .
ive got a set of 15x10's but i need a big street tire for the 15x8's

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Dave I am just teasing you bro, you know that...

willexoIX

Hmm. Anyone hear about the world record 1/4 mile supra? It runs Megasquirt.

My timing isnt locked out on my car, but I am also not pushing it until I get a knock sensor. Tops 28° right now.

Hey Rob, check your PMs

willexoIX

Lol, 8 inch wide tires SUCK with a turbo, even on a v6 car haha.

New tires are much more grippy though.

willexoIX

Had no clue they were that cheap, the ones I saw were the $35-50 range.

project89

iTrader: (1)

the 15x8's are bigger then stock , even with the 255's on them they look like baby tires lol thinking about trying some 295's

willexoIX

I'm running 16x8s with a 225/60r16 tire. I want 16x10s in the back but I also want to be able to rotate my tires. Highly doubt I can fit 10s in the front if my last tires rubbed with the 1 inch spacers. At least not without a bfh.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What are the power goals for this?

You guys must have more faith in your bottom ends than I do. I'm running a forged crank and scat sportsman rods and I'm worried that 600hp will break a rod or split the 400 block.

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

4 digit power
only thing stock thats left is the crank , and block.
the transbrake is going to make me nervous with that stock crank


one a side note i may have my tt headers sold today if i do ill send u payment for that trans stuff






theres a very expensive shotblock waitin if this one blows up

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Well no, if the MS is powered down it better not enable the injectors. Think of the consequences if the MS fuse pops (or is removed) and the engine is being cranked over trying to start it.

OK, we have already seen the consequences...

Design intent? So the intent of the design is to allow the injectors to enable with the help of a powered off MS? How do you know what the design intent is?

Sorry, I know folks like the MS system, but when there are issues such as this it really sheds a light on the system.

RBob.

project89

iTrader: (1)

i agree it needs to be fixed it could have easily cost me my car or worse had i been cranking it inside the shop

i do like the ms system its cheap, it does anything i could possibly want and then some, and its dead easy to tune

but some of the issues with it have been around far to long , and dont even get me started and the manual

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

No, he simply didnt wire the other side of the injectors properly. There doesnt need to be a failsafe here, just wire the injectors correctly. Kinda like hooking up the battery with the correct polarity. Not a big deal, imo.

project89

iTrader: (1)

rbob is right , even if it would have had the 12v+ wired to the key like the ecm, if for any reason the ecm didnt power up , or the fuse blew it would have done the same exact thing

its still possible for it to flood the engine with fuel, the only reason i found out is caus ei was flipping the key on and off to prime the motor since it was so cold out.

my normal starting procedure is to switch on the ignition/fuel inejctors after ive already started to crank the engine. not before like i did in the video

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The exact same thing could happen from a chafed injector wire rubbing the valvecover.

I don't think I'm about to throw out an ECM that has been far superior to everything else I've used in the past 10 years because of the unlikely potential that I might blow a fuse and ground the injector circuit.
Their is a reason Megasquirt is used on EVERY type of car, bike, boat, and sled you can imagine all over the Internet. It accommodates the needs of everyone and it's half the cost of the big commercial stuff.

I'm not even sure this condition can happen on mine because I'm not running the same board as you. My ECM is based on the Microsquirt module, which uses a different injector driver:

http://www.st.com/web/en/resource/te...CD00000968.pdf

I chose to do it this way because I wanted it to fit inside a '165 ECM case and I wanted a factoryish pinout.

-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Blown ms fuse = no ignition. At the most you might manage to hydrolock the engine with fuel. But, if you wire everything your own different way, anything might happen. Best to just wire it like the instructions advise. Never had an ounce of trouble out of my ms.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The biggest problem i've found with people and MS, and really it seems to be people with fbodies is the ignition options. There is just so many different options and people get confused and end up either not firing, or not controlling timing, or advancing when it should be retarding or visa versa (because they have the falling/rising edge inversed).

Some people just need something that's very basic and designed for their specific car and ignition system and set of sensors.

I, again, like the fact that regardless if I'm tuning HEI, an LS1, a buddies mustang, or a sled that my GUI and basic tuning layout is the same once the ECU is configured for the specific application.

-- Joe

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

Yea you can run a ms with an old type ignition which is totaly seperate. But if the pump relay is ran off the ms and the injectors are on the proper ign/start circuit there really should not be a problem.

project89

iTrader: (1)

well i hate to admit it but yesterday my tubing arrived and i was so ready to get the other header built i did the unthinkable.........



















































i built another ds header , i didnt relize what i had done until it was 90% welded up , when i noticed i just shut off the welder closed up the shop and went home shaking my head at such a stupid mistake. luckily only a single tube is welded to the flange . ill deal with it today somehow but boy did i feel stupid when i noticed what i did

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I don't understand ?

-- Joe

project89

iTrader: (1)

if u take the second header i built and put it on the passenger side , the vband faces the firewall, when i built it on the bench i forgot to turn the cyl head around like it was on the passenger side of the engine

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Ahh. Ooops !

You can run a rear-mount in engine bay. haha

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Your just now realizing that...?

Dude, your rushing when you shouldn't be with those headers, take your damn time. Are you intending for the final setup to resemble ZZ3Astro's, or will there be a huge difference?

Will, I got your PM, I'll shoot you one once I get back...

project89

iTrader: (1)

all fixed now , in the 2 pics thats a 3 inch intercoole rpipe showing downpipe clearance , i have room for a 4.5 inch downpipe , maybe even a 5 inch

willexoIX

I was beginning to wonder what the hell happened to you lol.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Dave the passenger side is driving me nuts seeing it like that w/the v-band slightly pointing downward, level it properly so that they match...!!!! Will, I just got over being really sick. It is freezing out to boot, feels like 20 below zero. As soon as I get the chance I'll grab everything for you bro...

project89

iTrader: (1)

driver side header is only on with a single bolt in the front, the back is hanging low thats why its pointed up , waiting for my copper gskets to get here so i can mount them up