Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you run mostly 1/8 mile, 3.73's aint bad

ZZ3Astro

So here is how everything worked out. We got the Monte. It was just too good of a deal to pass up. I'm going to end up using the ZZ shortblock in mine, with forged pistons and maybe rods. Still researching the durability of those PM rods.

I wasn't thinking about this at first, but of course the ZZ heads are angle plug so they will not work with the driver side manifold. I will probably craigslist those and go with the afr 195 straight plug heads. Then again maybe I'll build a header for that side.

As for the Monte, I was originally going to rebuild the Iroc engine and redo the stock heads for it. After some clear thinking, I realized it would make 1000x more sense to just do the iron block 6.0 LS in it (with LS1 intake). By the time I rebuild the Iorc engine with a nodular crank, forged pistons, put in a megasquirt 2 and bought a TPI intake and injectors, I could easily have gone LS. It will need new accessories anyway just like my Iroc did after sitting so long. Might as well just put the money into LS for that car. Wife wants to twin turbo it. That might give my Iroc some trouble at the track! LOL

92firebird 305

sweet u got a gread deal on that car to

freaky

i can't wait to see these cars when your done .

ZZ3Astro

Iroc is officially at ZERO psi now. Had to remove all of the cold side tubing and intercooler for the paint shop. It goes in tomorrow. It's going to suck that I will have to take the nose off a newly painted car and put all of that back on. Will have to be careful from now on when working on this thing.

Anyway I drove it without boost... MAN does it ever feel wrong! Hearing the turbo spool but not getting any boost is a very disturbing feeling. One I never wish to repeat LOL

freaky

post pics of the new paint job ...

ZZ3Astro

OMG - worst nighmare realized. The body shop apparenly only knows how to bondo, not work with metal. Car is in a million pieces now including no windshield. It's coming home. Un-fricken-real. I have the worst luck with paint people.

BANDITSBC

I HATE BODY WORK! sorry to hear that, I'm sure you'll figure something out. There's still time before the snow thaws,,, oops, your in florida... sorry!

sincerely,
feeling your pain in Michigan

Screamin86

iTrader: (1)

latching on

Kingtal0n

Impressive numbers for an oem engine.

have you calculated what the VE would be at the rpm you turn? It should be pretty low with the TPI once you pass the helmholtz limit of those runners. Im curious how the compressor efficiency plays into the low VE of the upper rpms in that engine? I bet you lose about 5-7psi of actual flow difference due to the VE, which should actually help prevent detonation.
think about if it was actually making close to 100% ve around 5000-6000rpm? the compressor could support the full displacement of the engine... something like 600 horsepower... and the VE should still be ok (< 180% @ 15psi if we started at 90% @ atmospheric )

but the compression ratio... my! what is it! 9.2 or something? thats an L98 right? it might be right there on the dead spot. Dont change the intake manifold lol!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Are you still running a stock compression ratio?

I just noticed your body work stuff when I saw your youtube link...

ZZ3Astro

Kingtal, sorry I missed your original post in March. I was too busy with body work to follow the forums I guess.

I haven't really done any calculations. I caclulated that the engine would last a good while at 10 psi and die at 16 LOL. It didn't die, but it certainly did protest. I've been stuck around 12.5 psi and it's really a lot of fun at this level. Just enough power I can roll out in second gear and it will haze the tires loudly on some surfaces. Makes it feel faster than it is. I was just driving around today thinking how much I love the current way the car drives and feels. I am still kicking around head/cam combos in my head. I don't mind some more power but I do not want to lose this completely stock feel/reliability and sound.

Compression is listed as 9.3:1 on the 87 5.7's. I think maybe that's a bit higher than reality but somewhere around 9:1 is a safe estimation.

Don't worry, the intake will be staying stock. I've driven my friend's stock intake tpi 383 enough on 20 psi to know I'll never want more go than that in my Iroc... and he's running 6.50-6.60's in the 1/8 on a 2.x short time!

Screamin86

iTrader: (1)

watched your videos of the car painted it looks great man!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Heh, I've got 2 '87's right now, the 305 in my 87 TA that's getting the turbo, and the 350 (87 formula 350) that will probably replace it when I blow up the 305... If you're successfully getting to 12.5 psi at the stock compression and heads, I'm hoping that I can go close to 20 with aluminum heads and a couple of tenths less compression.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I am curious how long it lasts. I ran my stock 305ci 9.3:1 at 16 PSI during tuning for a little bit but backed it down to 12 PSI max. Now I am down to 4 PSI max for the 4L60E tuning. I hope yours lives a long time at 16 PSI.

ZZ3Astro

Thanks Screamin86!

Junkcltr, that is exactly what I did. At 16, it felt strong on the street but slowed down at the track. That is not to mention the oil blowing out everywhere it could find to do so. So I backed down to 12.5. For a well worn stock TPI engine I think that is the sweet spot and the reasonable limit.

This engine won't see higher than 12.5 again before I retire it, which is coming up here shortly - as soon as I get this ZZ3/Monte Carlo driving so I can see how the engine runs. Right now I'm still fighting with 10 year old fuel problems in the Monte. Wondering if I might have to change the tank out, because running it dry and putting fresh fuel in doesn't seem to get rid of the junk. And now just today the whole tag bracket/hinge assembly broke off while I was adding fuel. Unlike our cars, the tag bracket bolts to rubber/fiberglass which has rotted. This Monte may end up sold before we do more than rob the engine.

Anyway once I get it on a baseline at the track, out it comes and I start working on forged pistons and heads for it. If I keep the ZZ3 heads then I'll have to start building the driver side header since the angle plugs won't work with the stock manifold.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Your engine is holding up great, mine wasnt so lucky lol.

ZZ3Astro

Confirmed tonight.. officially have some blow-by! However the weather cooled off nicely and it ran like a scalded dog at 13 psi. I'm going to turn that down a bit to about 10 I think! Can't wait to see what the ring lands look like in this engine.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

What kind of calculation told you that it would die at 16?

freaky

16 psi would put a 305 at 490 bhp with a perfect tune an no boost leaks , if the crank is only good till 500 bhp then 16 will be right on the ragged edge .

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

That's an interesting statement... at what rpm, what VE, compressor efficiency, intercooler efficiency, density ratio...?

Build it to turn 7000rpm and get things in their happy place efficiency wise you could be talking about 835hp at 16psig out of that 305...

freaky

i don't think the stock crank will hold 835 but that would be nice if it would . i'm gonna add vortec heads an change to a blowthrough carb when i build mine an use mp t70 . i'll be happy anwheres in the 3-400rwhp range .this is my everyday driver an i like the idea of using the original motor .

ZZ3Astro

For a nearly 150k engine with cast pistons and 30 psi max oil pressure when hot, 16 is definitely the first two digits of the engine funeral home's phone number.

ZZ3Astro

Feeling a lame cylinder, but this time not only in high boost. I went for #7 because that plug always fouls. It's not completely fouled out this time but carbon buildup comes up almost even with the end of the ceramic and there appears to be a spark trail from the electrode to the glob of oil foul/carbon. Guess I'll put one more plug in and see what happens!

Anyway this seemed like a convenient time to use my new compression tester.

#7 = 132 psi cold

ZZ3Astro

Further compression testing cancelled compliments of blood sucking yellow flies. :-(

ZZ3Astro

Update.. it's cylinder #4 that is dead. My guess is another baked wire, even though I upgraded to better wires. On the turbo side a while back. I can only hope it's cooked at the very end by the plug, so I can shorten and reuse it as #7, which I haven't made the wire for yet. I recently messed around in that area thinking I had a loose manifold bolt (it wasn't). Possibly I moved the wire too close to the manifold. Will check it later this week.

Here is the brand new plug I put in #7 last night. Ten miles later and the oil fouling has begun on one side!




Compression test results so far:

#1 = 145 psi cold
#3 = 142 psi cold
#5
#7 = 132 psi cold

#2
#4
#6
#8

At first I was thinking these numbers were low, but really they aren't so bad. Number 7 is definitely unhappy but not terrible either.

project89

iTrader: (1)

dont worry about the actual number for each cyl take the highest reading and the lowest reading.

if they are in 10% of each other u are good

ZZ3Astro

Where there is a will, there is a way! I cannot believe what the source of my dead cylinder was! The plug wire literally fell off.. go figure. Well it took a lot of hard work but I managed to get that pos back on without removing anything except the starter (for better viewing). Took about an hour but sure beats having to remove the D.P. and turbo!

Now it's back to running normal. Once again I've escaped major issues and it's plug wires again. No signs of heat damage thankfully. I just didn't get it snapped on good before I guess. Now my biggest problem is fiberglass arm. I'm sure you turbo people know what that is

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

yes.a little itchy lol........least your issue wasnt major like mine..........i had some valve float and a piston disintegrated causing more damage.........now building a forged 355.then need to get a new turbine shaft and have the turbo balanced......

ZZ3Astro

This could be it folks.. I have been overheating in the past couple of weeks. Was on a mission to get this thing able to use the AC when it's 95 degrees outside.. put on LS1 fans and all but now it seems to be running hot even without the AC on. It actually stays cool a long time without the AC on. The problem seems to be once it gets to 200 degrees it just will not cool back down. Film at 11.

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

thats not good.........i remember when i was noticing more blow by from my breather and oil dipstick kept sliding up............as well as the coolant temps not being what they used to be.....hope you get yours up and running soon. I am almost finished with mine. I was gonna rebuild the t76 turbo but decided to put it on hold and purchase a gt45 turbo which is a little smaller on the compressor side.

ZZ3Astro

Meh.. not good.. If I start it cold, and put a running waterhose into the radiator, hot water comes out within about 30 seconds of starting it. I can drive it about four miles and it's at 185-190 with the 160 thermostat in it and both fans on. This is after I tried a bottle of head gasket sealer stuff last night so my options are limited. Therefore I am starting in earnest on getting the ZZ3 out of the Monte Carlo this weekend to be begin teardown an a forged piston install asap.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Have you done a combustion gas check in the coolant?

FWIW, I'd be nervous also... my brother's car started doing something like that last year, couldn't seem to track it down, then a couple of weeks later it started knocking at the track... one of the plugs came out smashed flat and on teardown it had a broken piston and it looks like it pushed the head gasket...

BANDITSBC

i concur with the combustion gas tester, we used it at the dealerships all the time. its kind of a big turkey baster with a filter in the bottom. u put a chemical in it and put it in your radiator. it shows if there is any combustion gas in your coolant.
auto zone has it. they didnt' know they did until i told them. it's a loaner tool!

good luck

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Autozone has them? I'll have to ask next time, I tried before and they didn't seem to know what I was talking about. We used to have one just like you described at the speed shop I used to work at (but I want to say that it was a snapon branded one), you used to also be able to get "test strips" that did the same thing at an autoparts store...