Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

nice how is megasquirt treating you?

ZZ3Astro

The megasquirt has been great so far. I'm still trying to figure out the accelerator enrichment setup but the overall tuning and driving experience has been wonderful. I am still chasing an IAC issue on occasion that seems to be related to high temp conditions only. Did you get your code 59 running good yet? I don't miss the rominator box but I do wish I could haven't made this work with OEM stuff and 59 just on principle. It would have been cooler, especially since I'm keeping the stock TPI setup. The autotune feature in the MS though, that really makes it worth the change alone.

Here's another pic I thought I'd ad to show the heat shielding I did for the AC system. I used thermal barrier tape (came from autozone) on the AC lines, AC box and on the exposed side/top/bottom of the drier/filter. I also zip tied a strip of header wrap to the AC line where is is close to the turbine housing. I added a piece of aluminum (cut from duct material from home depot) around the drier/filter and used a stainless ziptie to secure it. And now I have the PTP turbo blanket along with the wrapped downpipe.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Car is running on 59 alot better now. Actually idles fairly well and have no other real issues. Drove it around abit but havent really gotten on it. Just heavy part throttle rolls to near 4000 rpm. I am looking into a FAST setup just because I may beable to get one at a decent price and the local shop near me can tune it in a couple of pulls. Expensive upgrade but atleast the car will be tuned and done and I can start racing it before the year is over

BirdsOnly

Sorry if I missed it. Are you still running MAF or MAP? How do you handle the fuel? Does the megasquirt have a boost reference or are you using a boost reference Fuel pressure regulator?

ZZ3Astro

Running the built in 2.5 bar map in the Megasquirt. I also have a 3 bar map in my PLX vac/boost unit that I may hook up so I can use the built in one for barometric calibration. I'm still using the stock fuel pressure regulator with 65# precision turbo injectors. The megasquirt handles all fuel requirements and I'm using a PLX wideband O2 for automixture and autotuning.

BirdsOnly

So your running a MAP with positive pressure resolution? The car was originally MAF? Awesome job getting it going!

ZZ3Astro

That's correct.. it was orginally a MAF car and then I converted it to speed density with a 7730 ECM from a new third gen. It ran and drove great on the 7730 with the 8D bin. I was planning to use Code 59 and 3 bar map but I had a lot of problems getting it to work right once I went to the larger injectors. I finally yanked the factory harness and computer out and went to the Megasquirt. Haven't looked back since :-)

BirdsOnly

I didnt see it in the photos, but how doe the driver side exhaust enter into the turbo/log set up? Does it go around the back of the engine or the front?

ZZ3Astro

The crossover follows the stock location of the Y pipe from the driver side manifold, across the bottom of the oil pan just behind the crossmember and then turns up and into the passenger side turbo manifold instead of turn towards the back to form the Y.

BirdsOnly

stupid question.... does it enter into the passenger side manifold itself or are they joined in a y-pipe just below the turbo?

ZZ3Astro

Look at the middle of page 1 of this thread and there is a photo of the manifold before I mounted it. You can see the merge inlet.

Bones232

zz3astro - what fuel and timing are you running? Did you have to go with 93 or better?

ZZ3Astro

Running 93 octane. Timing is fairly conservative at this point. It really falls off above 7 psi but peak timing is around 18-20 degrees (maybe 22 over 5000 rpm) at 6.5 psi then starts taking a lot out. Once I get my fuel pump and intercooler in place I'll change that a bit. I also have it start pulling timing out pretty aggressively when the IAT exceeds 140. Mostly its intake heatsoak producing readings like that, but I don't want to take any chances now.

V8Astro Captain

iTrader: (1)

Glad to see it working so well. I've kinda been skeptical about the MS system over the years. I just checked out the website and it seems they've come a LOOOONG way from what I remember.

Sadly I'm stuck with this Holley Commander train-wreck. Arg...what a cumbersome system....

ZZ3Astro

I felt the same way but I've been pretty impressed with the overall experience. My biggest complaint is lack of sensors and outputs. I'd like to see inputs for speed, AC on among others and some additional outputs. As I understand it, a new megasquirt-III prototype is already in testing and it will have a lot of the things I miss on the II.

Would be nice if it was a plug and play changeover from the II to the III. Hopefully all these new features won't run the price up to the levels of other ECMs out there.

ZZ3Astro

Another update on this car...

Overall things have gone pretty well. I took it for a 135 mph run (it pulled hard to 120, after that it wanted to downshift to 3rd so I kept having to back off the gas) and came back with a strange sound in the exhaust. Fast forward about two weeks and I was under the car to check plug #8 because the wire lays across the downpipe. The pipe is wrapped and the wire has an insulator boot, but I figured it was burnt. It was not! However I found a pretty big problem in terms of a major exhaust leak and a missing lock washer - arrow points at #6 cyl:



The manifold material under this missing washer is very rough for some reason. I think it cracked the lock washer causing it to fall out. So I took everything back off, ground it smoother and welded a flat washer on to protect the new lock washer. I also tried flipping the copper gasket over the other way (it is oversized for this manifold)

Everything went back on and I fired it up. The leak was even worse! Bear in mind I was trying to make it to the dragstrip that same day. Everything back off again far enough to remove the gasket completely and put it back together. I started it up and the leaks are gone!

Back under the car for final inspection, I realized the #4 spark plug wire was hung up on the v-band clamp for the crossover pipe. This is very bad because #4 is the worst plug to get to. It is blocked by the crossover pipe on front and below, the manifold above and the downpipe behind and outside. Somehow I got the wire off. It was burned about 4" of its length, having been exposed to the exhaust leak. This one I didn't have an insulator boot on either since it ran under the manifold. Obviously I didn't make the dragstrip this weekend.

All turned out great though once I replaced the wire. It's running great and I'm really seeing an improvement with getting on the boost. I can actually launch at 1 psi on the stock converter now (on concrete) and I have been able to brake boost to about 3 psi. That leak has probably been there since day 1 from the looks of things.

If I don't break it and the weather is good, I am hoping to have it to the track this coming weekend.

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Glad to see this thread is still alive!!! ahh it sucks you didnt get a chance to go to the dragstrip, ive been following this thread since the day you started it. what do you think the car will run if you get it to hook?? great job on everything

ZZ3Astro

Thanks noboost. I'll be running 8.5 psi and originally expected 8.20's 1/8 mile on 12 psi (with a 2.0 60 foot, before I knew this thing would launch this hard) so somewhere in the mid 8's is what I'm hoping for. I've had to pull a lot more timing out of this thing than I expected (total timing is around 14-15 at full boost) so that will be my excuse if I run crappy numbers. Saving up for the intercooler supplies now.

Hope I don't break anything.. planning on a 200 mile drive on Thanksgiving day to visit some relatives in style. My wife doesn't think it's a good idea to stick my elderly mother in there for the trip, knowing I won't be able to resist some highway boosting.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Your 14-15 timing numbers seem reasonable for a stock compression 5.7 liter TPI. I run about 16* BTDC max. with my completely stock 9.5:1 compression 305ci TPI at 9 PSI of intercooled boost with 87 octane. I add in some timing when the water/alky comes on.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I dont think you'll have any problems reaching low 8s 1/8 mile with that setup. my buddys bolt on L98 with procharger at 10psi-12psi was in the mid lower 12's in the 1/4. i'd expect you would be near high 7's in the 1/8 if the launch is strong

ZZ3Astro

High 7's would be killer. I took it out today and kept having issues with breaking up at higher boost. Also it pulled great at 4 psi and 8 felt like someone holding the brakes. Finally I got out an checked the wire coming out from #4. The crossover pipe had some funny marks on it and when I pushed the wire a bit closer it started arcing over to it (about 1 inch). So during low boost it was still able to fire the plug but in higher boost it was easier to arc over. That wire must have touched at some point and ruined the insulator. I have some new wires to put on and heat insulators but that means I have to take the downpipe off instead of spending the day driving it! What fun is that?

Anyway I made a vid today even though the ignition problem was present. Not as much go here as before the wire problem but it's more fun to look at than a boring post alone. Also you can hear the blowoff valve releasing. These are 0 psi launches so nothing amazing to see...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vTeKzSbUtg

ZZ3Astro

Finally got it to the local 1/8 track today. There were no surprises (good or bad) as it ran several 8.67's at 82.x mph. Pretty much where I expected it to be, especially with this 80 degree weather today. 60 footers were 1.9x mostly, no 1.8's as I'd hoped. I redlighted two or three times on the first runs trying to find the stall point for launch. Basically with this stock converter about all you can do is load up the brakes. When I get a converter so I can leave on a few pounds of boost it will be a different car.

Overall I'm very pleased with the results today. I did five passes hotlapping, rested it for an hour and made another pass. After that I turned it over to my wife and she pulled out a 8.68 with me in the car and then matched my previous 8.67 alone. She was all smiles as it was her first time down the track. I think she's addicted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SISnh...eature=channel

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Not bad, that car reallly needs sticky tire and converter and you'll be well into the 8's. Cooler air and less hotlapping would help alot too

ZZ3Astro

Well no tire spin at all.. tire spin would have helped because I wouldn't have kept redlighting. The front brakes just won't hold the car if I stall it up much at all. A looser converter and some 50 degree temps will put it low 8's for sure.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

you'd be surprised what a converter can do, a friend of mine dropped from 8.8x down to 8.3x-8.2x by switching from a stock converter to a PTC 3000. that was on an na vortec thing. but being able to get the boost up on the line would help a lot. thought about doing some meth injection?

chevymec

iTrader: (5)

Nice build!!

jbucago

Im not sure if i read it in here or not but are you on stock crank rods and pistons?

I am going to attempt to twin turbo my 5.0 tbi. I am going to convert to TPI though. Reading this thread lit a fire in me.. I will be using this thread as guide lines...

ZZ3Astro

I've definitely got a converter on my short list. My wife is interviewing for a job today that will put this project into high gear. Hope she gets it! I'm not too excited with using meth. I know it works well, but I have terrible luck with things like that. I keep reading stories about pumps that quit working and I hate keeping tanks topped off. I could have gone with nitrous if I wanted to think about that sort of thing . I will use a good sized intercooler and call it a day.

Yes all stock for now, 141k and counting. I've even had detonation a few times but I quickly got out of it. Highest boost was 10.2 but I usually see about 9 psi. Once I get the intercooler on it I'll probably go for 14-15 and see what happens.

So far everything is still running the same as it has been. My 700r4 is getting a bit tired now that I have new tires on back. Also I continue to have a strange 'wall' I seem to hit sometimes at 5000 rpm. I just found out a second wire was very close to the downpipe, so I'm going to remove it and make sure it didn't get cracked from the heat. As I said above, my wife may be getting a new job and that would make a huge difference in this project. I'm starting to rethink my strategy of keeping it 350 cubes also. Going to a 383 is only a 10% mileage reduction and the extra torque could make up for a bit of compression drop.

jbucago

well that makes me feel better as to running stock internals.. i have aquired the pipes and flanges today to for my custom twin turbo build.. 89 formula converting from tbi to tpi.. thanks I love this thread!

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

mmhmm a 383 with tpi and turbo is gonna be a hell of a torque machine, lol

iroc a 86 berli

nice car man!!

ZZ3Astro

Yup! That's what actually made me build this car. My friend has an 89 vette with a stock TPI, 65# injectors, 383 cu in, Big Stuff 3, world products iron heads and ran 6.80 or 6.90's 1/8 on radials at a mph that would have put him in the low 6's. Absolute monster to drive around - the only car I've ever driven where I was too frightened to put it on the floor. I will probably end up in that direction before it is over with. His cam is pretty mild and it drives around pretty much as if stock.

jbucago

so whats up with that code $59 .. i hear somthing about that when you go turbo.. or like its somthing you have to run... or i dont fully understand what its all about...

ZZ3Astro

Dyno date is set for this Saturday. Hoping to see around 290 hp. Car still running good. Still waiting to hear on my wife's job. It's looking promising though.

Jbcuago, I just posted some info on your thread about code 59 before I realized you had asked here.

NY3RDGEN

Just got finished watching all youre You Tube vids. Not only is this build great, but that is one Good looking iroc you have there. Luv the stock look. I also think youre being a bit conservative on hoping for 290RWHP. I think if you do some dyno tuning you can easily acheive 100 More horse than that. You should check out that 91 white formula, its a stock L98 with a single turbo too. He tuned his was into the 10's. His car was also in GM High Tech. Forget his name though.

ZZ3Astro

Well that is my longer term plan, but not until I can get some other things out of the way. Mainly the transmission, fuel pump and an intercooler and then I'm going to go looking for that 100 hp you mentioned. :-)

For this test I'm just gonna see where 9 or 10 psi gets me. I still haven't put my knock sensor and MS boost control in yet either, so I'm already pushing my luck knocking on the door of 10 psi.

vangogh4560

that motor is out of a 90s vet right?

ZZ3Astro

Well it is the engine that came in my Iroc, but yes they put tpi 5.7's in the 90 and 91 vette, although it was with aluminum heads and speed density while my 87 was iron heads and mass air flow.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

You will see more than 290 at the wheels. My junk bone stock 305ci TPI 9.5:1 makes 290 at the wheels with 93 octane, 10 psi, 16* of timing advance. I would guess your 5.7 will make around 310-320 at the wheels.

ZZ3Astro

Well I fell short of my rwhp expectations, but I'm not surprised. It made 12 psi on the dyno while I see 9.5 on the street. The stock fuel pump is already mad at 9.5 psi and I never planned to see that much boost before putting on the Walbro. Luckily Panhandle has a fuel pressure sensor on the dyno so we kept a close eye on it. My fuel and spark map drop the timing off pretty hard above 10 psi and add extra fuel as a buffer to overboost. Not that the extra fuel mattered because the AFR went up instead of down because the fuel pressure went from 44.5 down to 30.9! That's why the AFR went to 13.2 at 4900 rpm and he ended the pull early. Timing for the last 1000 rpm was 12.5 to 13 degrees.

Now you have my excuses, so here are the numbers:

265 rwhp
332 rwtq

And here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk-mxfF0miI

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

How old is that pump? Is it an AC DELCO pump?

A new / in good shape AC DELCO stock pump is good for around 400 FWHP.
Mine has about 50K miles on it and I never see a pressure drop at 290 RWHP.

Is the FPR line to the manifold in good shape?
What was the IAT?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Considering the situation on the dyno, you should hit higher numbers. cant watch the vid right now but was it still making power at 4900 rpms and climbing?

Probably have alot more to gain in the tune being its pretty conservative and your fuel issues. Not bad tho.

Interesting you saw more boost on the dyno. I saw about 1.5 psi less but when i gave it 1 turn on the boost controller which is normally 1 psi on the street, it jumped 5 psi. I found that abit odd.

ZZ3Astro

I believe the fuel pump to be the original. IAT was great. I don't have the logs in front of me but IAT started around 97 and went up to around 106 at the end. I see similar results at the track, except on hot laps the IAC climbs the entire time the engine is running because of heat soak. In fact on my last logged pass, I kept it recording for a while and the temp increased a lot more after the run than during.

The map line to the FPR you mean? Yes and the dyno's map sensor was on the same T as the FPR so I know it saw the same psi.

ZZ3Astro

The increased boost was from the loading (it's a load generating Mustang Dyno). Next time I'm going to give him a lower weight to calibrate the loading with. I gave him 3500 lbs this time but next time I'm going to have him use 3000.

Also this was just going to be the first pull and then we were going to lock the detent cable at about 75% and disconnect it from the throttle body so it wouldn't kick-down. On this pull, he just eased into the gas and started the actual test at 3500 rpm. Stock TPI peaks the torque at 2900 and the boost didn't hit 9.6 psi until 3900 rpm on the dyno run. I'll have to look at the TPS to see when he floored it, but I suspect close to 3800 rpm. If the test started at 3000 rpm and WOT I suspect the torque would have been quite a bit better!

ZZ3Astro

Wow I feel much better after looking at the dyno sheet.. here are the stock specs for my engine: 1987 5.7 hp 225@4400 tq 330@2800

Looking at the dyno sheet, it made 315 ft lbs at 3500 rpm at only 6.6 psi! That's 700 rpm past the peak of the stock engine so I'm very confident that it would have peaked much higher and early with 10 psi by 2800 rpm. I will avenge these poor numbers, next time!

Atlas

very cool setup on the car i can see you put a lot of work and time to think this over have fun taking out those rice turbos

ZZ3Astro

Been a while, thought I'd update on the Iroc. I've been driving it regularly for the past two months. The winter has been too cold down here in Florida to spend much time out in the garage working on it, so I just stay inside the car with the heat on. Besides, the turbo really likes the cold weather. I finally ordered a UJ pipe (1.5 inches) and flange so I can plumb the wastegate dump back into the downpipe. Hopefully I will be working on that later this week. I've also ordered a 3 inch inlet, dual 2.5 outlet Magnaflow muffler and a pair of mandrel 2.5" tail pipes (Dynomax makes them about $33 each). It was cheaper to buy the one piece mandrel tail pipes than to go buy elbows and make my own. I stressed over going with dual outlet vs straight-thru 3"/3". I know the 3/3 would flow slightly better but I still want to stick with the factory appearance, and in any case, the Magnaflow is as close as I'm gonna get to a straight pipe.

On the subject of exhaust restrictions, for the past few months I've been running a Flowmaster 3" catback that was given to me. I'm not a big fan of Flowmaster but it was free and I had a stock 2.5" exhaust on it at the time. Going to the flowmaster increased the response time of the turbo slightly. Anyway I was planning to go with a straight-thru muffler soon, so I decided to take off the Flowmaster and see what the car drove like without it. I immediately had traction problems in the middle to upper range second gear. After making a solid pass all the way through second and shifting into third, I looked in the rearview and saw a huge cloud of black smoke. Reviewing my boost gauge peak confirmed it, instead of my normal 9.5 psi, it registered 16.1 psi! My fuel maps are set to go insanely rich above 12 and timing drops to 10 degrees. No harm done, but jeez that's a lot of boost on stock motor and no intercooler. This little experiment caused me to put my seat upholstery plans on hold and to procede with replacing the muffler earlier than planned.

ZZ3Astro

Finally tied my wastegate into the downpipe after driving for months with it dumping to open air. It's extremely loud that way! Took about seven hours total to do it and it is a shocking difference in the sound of the car. I'll put all of the pics up on my site when I get a chance, but here are a few from today. Started this morning for a while.. then had to go to work most of the day and finally got back on the Iroc again this evening.


9 am this morning. Mocked up the locations of the wastegate and downpipe to assist in initial cuts.


First section tacked together.


Second part (used the 45 degree part of the UJ pipe for this section)


The least fun part of the day! Turbo was installed first to align downpipe correctly before marking.


It lines up! Turbo back on yet again for alignment while tacking slipjoint to downpipe.


Finally! The last part tacked, ready to weld up everything.


9 pm tonight. Welding complete.. time to re-wrap with header wrap and install.


Everything still together after tonight's test drive. Yay!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Look good. Very nice job

noboostnogo

iTrader: (4)

Nice to hear everything is still running smooth. The wastegate dumptube looks nice. Check out my build when you get a chance, its the link in my sig.