Kingtal0n

weee im building another one in about a week. ill get digital video of this one, this time, instead of just pics.

Anthony Hanna

You said your cowl is removable right? Got any pics of your car with the hood closed and the cowl off? I'm just curious to see how much of the blower comes through.
Thanks,
Tony

Kingtal0n

The old cowl was fiberglass, its sold to danF82 from this board...

the new cowl is in the works. it will be done about the same time as the motor, it will also be on my site. as of now the car has no hood...

88GTAinRI

Check out my sig. I just installed the F.A.S.T. engine management system and am hoping to be heading for the dyno on May 3. I am hoping for similiar numbers as KingtalOn. I have a very similiar build with the exception of stock bottom end and a centrifugal supercharger.

SATURN5

Jeezsh.... a 730 or a 749 with $58 code would do the job for a hell of a lot less than the F.A.S.T. stuff..

But thats me...

Anthony Hanna

What I was getting at was how much of the blower would sit above a stock hood? Does much of the blower come through or is it mostly carb and air filter?
Thanks,
Tony

Kingtal0n

oh that little blower & even the carb sits below the stock hood, its the aircleaner that sticks up about 3", and maybe a teeny bit of the carb. i had a 2" cowl, and i was using a drop base aircleaner (2" drop base) to clear it, so figure 1" of carb, and 1" of aircleaner stuck up into the top of the cowl. it barelly touched....

the weiand 142 is supposed to be a bit taller than the B&M 144 blower was, so we will see what i have to fabricate.

check my site....

B4Ctom1

tell me more about this $58 code look at the sig for my 91 Z drag car

88GTAinRI

I'm not going to debate this. I weighed my options and was very impressed with the F.A.S.T. system. It is still impressing me and I haven't been to the dyno yet.

Kingtal0n

the whole FAST thing has me wondering too. if monty's using it, then hey...

I know the commander can control a sequential setup, and i know the FAST can too.

Tom do you know anything about the "speed" of the commander VS say Accel DFI or FAST...

Some people were saying the commander is a "Slow" ECM and does not respond as quickly as other aftermarket EFI's... is that true? seems pretty quick to me...

B4Ctom1

I never look at a processor speed when it comes to a engine. even the slowest ECM can handle processes for a deviceas slow operating as an internal combustion engine froma ***** 4 to a top fuel 8. It sounds like a marketing jackass's dream. I might remind you that japan has followed way behind the american vehicles for years in ECM processor speed and they have a few of the most complicated operating engines I have ever seen. so in a word "no"

Anthony Hanna

Well that stinks. A prerequisit of a blower install for me is that the blower must sit high enough above the hood for at least half of the pulley to show.
Anybody make a drop center hood?
Tony

Kingtal0n

<b>A prerequisit of a blower install for me is that the blower must sit high enough above the hood for at least half of the pulley to show. </b>

get a 10-71 i guarantee it will make your car stand out like nothing you have ever seen before....

Anthony Hanna

I'm sure it would. It would also be complete overkill considering my goal. I'm looking for 1 hp per cubic inch out of a 350. It would be pretty simple to build a n/a 350 to get that but I'd like to do it without ever having the heads off of the engine.

As for the hood clearance thing, since I was a kid, I've always wanted a car with a polished blower and a Mr. Gasket scoop (the one with the butterflys) sticking out of the hood. That's probably something I'm going to have to get over unless I'm willing to go way overkill (and over budget) with the blower.
Thanks,
Tony

Cronic3rd

You could put a spacer between the blower and the manifold. Might kill the power but it wold look cool.

SATURN5

$58 code is from the Turbo Sunbird and Syclone/Typhoon. It is a 2 bar code set up a blown application. Originally used in a 7749 ECM it can also be used in a 7730 so long as you use high Z (SAT) TPI injectors as the 7730 only has one injector driver compared to the 7749 which has two. The two drivers were only used in the Turbo Sunbird or some Quad 4's, as they both use low Z (P/H) TPI injectors. (will only run 4 P/H TPI injectors in OEM form) All that needs done is the harness must be changed to match a SyTy. Wiring diagrams have been posted on the DIY board. Also Bort62 has a site detailing this same info.

Simply put... for cheap you can ditch the FMU and have the ECM do the job.

Not knocking the F.A.S.T. stuff, just the price, considering the few "real" improvements they offer. About the only thing a aftermarket ECM has that might help some is the ability to run 8 P/H injectors out of the box.. but even that can be acheived with a 7749 if you don't mind changing out some components in the ECM.

Anthony Hanna

I wonder if they make a "high rise" blower manifold for those? Heck for that matter I could modify a tunnel ram and sit the blower on top of it.
Seriously, I guess my best two options would be to either just bite the bullet and cover the blower up with a cowl or save alot longer than I'd like to and buy a 671.
Tony

Anthony Hanna

You don't still have the 144 do you? Are you selling it?
Thanks,
Tony

Kingtal0n

SOld the 144 for $1150 on ebay about 4 months ago!

I have a weiand 142 brand new but thats going on my 383 soon.

you can get a nice roots 142 now on ebay for less than $1000. keep searching they appear every now and then. just make sure you get a "later model" like cars the newer ones last longer and work better, hehe.

B4Ctom1

you still thinking of going EFI?

Kingtal0n

Tom have you been browsing the TPI board? hehe I just picked up a TPI setup im busy porting polishing and siamesing it for my 355.

im hoping with my TPI setup, 700R4, and 3.73 gears I will break my record of 18 MPG- im hoping for 25 with the right tune. Eventually, I will do a "tom"- that is a stealthram / procharger combo to net me 500-600 RWHP on pump gas

B4Ctom1

I guess you dont want 500hp anymore?

Kingtal0n

of couse i do. thats why i want a D1-SC.

Dewey316

Kingtal0n,

did you ever descide if you were going to go with a serpentine belt and the 142? if you do that, let me know what kind of spacing issues you have with the pulleys.

B4Ctom1

ooooohhhh...

Kingtal0n

<b>did you ever descide if you were going to go with a serpentine belt and the 142? if you do that, let me know what kind of spacing issues you have with the pulleys.</b>

actually i am going to use serpentine on this 383 im building, with the 142 blower. weiand sells a "special" blower for serpentine setups. Im not using the single serpentine though, im getting a blower serpentine setup from march pullies. that should cure it. heh.

calebzman

iTrader: (3)

One of the most in-depth threads I've read on this board. Long, but a lot of good engine building and tuning information. Kingtal0n, any updates?

crrllmich

I have the recipe for 500 hp and 25mpg.... ready its real short....LS7 hehehehe I had to do it ... but still thats gotta be sweet.

Kingtal0n

This is one of my oldest threads. Here is your update:
I built a twin-turbo camaro : geocities.com/kingtaling/turbo.html

Then, I switched my entire career / life / business around to JDM cars:

Here you will find our current list of JDM CARS for sale</title>
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<title>Welcome to IMPORT JAPAN Here you will find our current list of JDM
CARS for sale

I am now one of the largest suppliers in Florida for Japanese cars/motors, possibly in the lower states. I actually got out of the American scene simply because it was a waste of money for me, not because its bad or worse or for any particular reason case/effect of it.

But I will say that its a LOT easier to make a faster, lighter, more reliable car using Japanese cars/parts for cheap simply by virtue- In my opinion- the majority come OEM like this in Japan, for cheap, where the only "fast" oem american cars we can get here are usually heavy-tank/boats or simply out of the price range of the average person.

An example:
On my site you will see an orange 650RWHP 240sx. No- this isnt pump gas, it makes a mere 520RWHP on pump gas. But it has a 6-speed, a fully built 2.6Liter motor (yes 2.6L) and a stand-alone, among the other things you can clearly see. And it weighs... 2850Lbs without driver. Imagine, for a moment, your 500RWHP camaro losing 1000Lbs. Now move the redline to 8500RPMS (factory for that motor) and the transmission to a six speed. Now your having fun....
and it still gets the fuel economy of a 2.6L powered 2800Lb car.

Dont get me wrong, mad <3 to american power, its just not how I get my kicks anymore... But I AM building a small block to stick into one of these light JDM cars, something a little special to stir up the locals that frown on american V8 power. :-)

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

I checked out your website and you have some nice stuff on there. I have always been curious if imports are cheaper to build. I see some of them at the track but only one or two of them are fast. Since you have built American stuff and import stuff, what is the average price ratio? I guess I am not the average Joe because there is no way I could afford the cheap cars on that site.

That is impressive. I would never have imagined a stock 2.6 engine or 6-speed could handle that much HP. Kind of comparing apples to oranges using that car as an example. I am guessing it is in the 20+ PSI boost range. Is that the stock weight for that car? The axles will handle that much HP?

Are you boosting that small block? What is a JDM car? I know, I know, I have a lot of questions. I don't know much about the import stuff so I am curious.

Kingtal0n

I checked out your website and you have some nice stuff on there. I have always been curious if imports are cheaper to build. I see some of them at the track but only one or two of them are fast. Since you have built American stuff and import stuff, what is the average price ratio? I guess I am not the average Joe because there is no way I could afford the cheap cars on that site.


Well, the cars on that site are mostly ACTUAL imports, not "imports" sold in america...
In other words, if you bought a 240sx here from 1992 you would pay $800~. Thats a crappy 2.4L N/A motor that makes 140WHP if your lucky. now they are RWD so thats a plus...

But go to Japan and you wont see 240's. You will see Silvias / 180SX cars. These cars cost less american $ there, and they have Turbocharged 2.0L 250RWHP+ motors. The tricky part is bringing that (@*# back to the USA. It doesnt pay to just bring 1, you have to bring 50 or more. I Bring the motors, AND the cars back.
Thats why the cars on my site are so much money, most of them are ACTUAL Japanese cars, right hand drive, factory turbocharged, etc... Nothing important is aftermarket. They are more rare in the USA than ferrari's or lamborghini's, thus the high prices.

now, to simply put one of the JDM (japanese domestic market) engines into an american car is much cheaper. You can get one of the "redtop" 2.0L 250RWHP motors for your american 240SX for under $2000. Installation and wiring can be done yourself, the intercooler and exhaust can be anywhere from $350-$1500 depends how cheap you go. Search "SR20DET" on ebay and see the support these motors have now..

And in a car like this $800 240sx (nissan btw) a 250RWHP will put you into the low 12's. And yes, it gets 26-28MPG. So your price range is $3000-$5000 for a 12 second reliable daily driver... that was my first project in the import world. it only ended when I Upgraded to a bigger and better project, all I ever did to it was change the oil.

and thats just for starters. A turbo upgrade, injectors, maf and ECU tune ($1500 more) and pick 300-400RWHP on the stock motor, your choice. 350RWHP~ is just flat out scary in one of these cars. this is my idea of cheap and reliable so far on a budget.

as you go up in the years of these cars and the motors, and as they get more rare and hard to find (I have the only 98 240sx for sale in florida under $10,000 unmodified) the prices go up. I just sold the moss-green one on my site for $17000 saturday afternoon. I have a guy in japan right now bringing back more cars/motors for me because I sell this stuff amazingly fast.
We do lexus(toyota) nissan mazda mostly, You would not BELEIVE the kind of crap the japanese can get OEM for cheap.

there are a few "favorites" of swaps/cars from japan:
toyota "soarer" (aka SC300 Lexus here in the USA)
US version: 6-cylinder 3.0L N/A 180~horsepower automatic
JDM version: 6-cylinder 2.5L Turbo 320Horsepower 5-speed or auto
Nissan "Silvia" (aka 240sx)
US version: 2.4L N/A 140Horsepower
JDM version: 2.0L Turbo 250-320Horsepower, year dependant
Nissan "Skyline" (us version: NONE)
Cheap version "GT-T" 2.5L Turbo 320+Horsepower ($2500~ motor)
more pricey motor "GT-R" 2.6L Twin Turbo 8200RPM Redline 380+Horsepower ($4500~)
People put these into 240's usually... As seen on my site.
A few more
Toyota "aristo" (Lexus GS here)
Mazda "savannah" (RX-7 here)
Get this... Acura RSX Type-S here in the USA: 200(?) horsepower,
Acura Type-R (the RSX badge is USA only) in Japan is 230~WHP, N/A 2.0L motor. This doesnt sound like much... but in that car... it goes 11's... Comes FACTORY with RECARO seats, BREMBO brakes, SIX speed, big-juice equipment.
Then there are the same name cars, like the STI or EVO, Yes in japan the engines have bigger better turbo equipment, bigger brakes, better seats, etc... and the cars are cheaper.
----------
That is impressive. I would never have imagined a stock 2.6 engine or 6-speed could handle that much HP. Kind of comparing apples to oranges using that car as an example. I am guessing it is in the 20+ PSI boost range. Is that the stock weight for that car? The axles will handle that much HP?


First off, the stock RB26 (2.6L GT-R motor) will easilly handle 700-800 Horsepower from the factory. this particular one was built to ensure reliability for years over years at this power level. it didnt have to be. It runs 15PSI regularly, with 27PSI being the peak that we could hit with the current boost controller. it would do more than 650 to the wheels but the wastegates were getting peaky with the kind of duty cycle I was running on the BC selenoid...

stock weight is 2660Lbs, you lose some weight when you shave the factory motor but gain it back and THEN some with the skyline motor. we shaved some more weight off the car with different seats, removed A/C, nothing in the back, a fuel cell, and a few more aluminum replacment parts like wheels and hubs and brakes... etc... it would be about 2900 without saving any weight from all the things we did. You can go all the way down to 2000lbs with these cars, but you HAVE to use the all aluminum 2.0L turbo motor to hit that number or be crazy with a plasma cutter and a sawzaw.

CamarosRUS

wow....i am absolutly amazed at the knowledge some people have about cars. i sit and read in disbelief....

90-irocdx3

iTrader: (4)

i dont have that much power on my zz 383 superrammed engine but i do get 28mpg. tested it many times.

IROC4LIFE

KingtaLon, congrats on the amazing projects you did with your thirdgen and the buisness u have built with the JDM stuff.

Im really wanting to build a 355 with a Weiand 177, my AFR 195's 750 carb and about 9:0-1 compression. I was wondering what u felt the was best Hyd Flat tappet cam for a setup like that. NX262H? XE262H?

Rocket-Doc

iTrader: (11)

Kingtal0n,
Did you ever take that thing to the track? Myself and V8AstroCaptain are sitting right about where you are power wise and I was just wondering what you ran ?!!??!?!?!

TurboedTPI

Very Nice. Should have thought about a turbo setup though.

Kingtal0n

I look back on this and I cant BELIEVE how far I've gone, what I've been through since then. I still get emails from thirdgen'ers a few a week asking me questions, what are you doing, what ever happened, help me with this, etc... its awsome.

I am not retired just on break

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

stock LS1, m6 trans, 4.30 gears.
cam.
150 shot of nitrous.

28mpg, 500hp AT THE WHEELS

jonathanryder

iTrader: (1)

I think this should get sticky status. Extremely well presented. Only thing I can think to add would be the option to swap the blower for a 100-150 shot of NOS, so you have even more economy, and as an added benefit, you get to make all the fart-can-muffler hoda drivers drop a load in their pants.

Kingtal0n

Back in 03' the LS-1 wasn't nearly as viable an option for us thirdgen'ers as it is now a days.
and to be honest now that its 08' I dont even think 22MPG is worth a crap. I drive something with 682 RWHP and it gets 28+mpg so... this thread should be buried IMHO.

B4Ctom1

LS2, better cam, better exhaust, stock heads, no blower, no nitrous, no turbo. There are 3 pages of just this article:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...sts/index.html

Stock
204/211 @ .050 .525 lift (116 lobe separation angle) = 402.1 hp at 5,300 rpm and 437 lb-ft of torque at 4,300 rpm

90 MORE HORSEPOWER WITH JUST A FREAKING CAM CHANGE!
218/220 @ .050 .570 lift (114 lobe separation angle) = 494.4 hp at 6,400 rpm and 450 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm

Looks like we are pretty close to the limits of the heads
232/236 @ .050 .600 lift (114 lobe separation angle) = 500.2 hp at 6,400 rpm and 449.8 lb-ft at 5,000 rpm

If you want to see the the parts 2 and 3 of this article, they add some ported heads and then L92 heads. There are several pages and pictures for each article:
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...ads/index.html

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...dyno_test.html

This thread was made a long time ago, and everything in it is just as valid, but because of the LS series motors, the bar is definitely raised. I remember when the LS first came out, and I heard that they would be putting iron variants in millions of trucks. I told my friends that it was a lot like the 1950's when the flathead was the king and this new technology called the small block chevy came on the scene and turned the world of hotrodders on their heads.

Now we have Hot Rod magazine articles with Ford Fairmonts running 5.3 GMC truck motors with a LS6 cam and a Brazilian Masterpower MP-70 through an eBay intercooler making 625hp at the rears and running low 9's.

Anyone who has been building their projects for a while are probably thinking about these motors (I have been). If you are just getting started on a project I recommend you GET thinking about them. They may just be CHEAPER to get your hands on in the long run!!!

Kingtal0n

What he said.

Hi Tom!!! Long time!!!

B4Ctom1

Kingtal0n HI!

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

This thread is awesome.

B4Ctom1

BTW I didn't mean to downplay this combination, because it certainly has merit.

TheDarkMinister

This recipe sounds good.. great thread!!! As soon as I finish my 400 swap TA I want to try this one on a 85 camaro Also I feel you on the import scene.. it was epic the summer evening when I chose between my Firebird and a S14 with a turbo KA24.. my heart is divided

88IROC350TPI

this thread is like a decade old... and so is the technology behind the build.

TheDarkMinister

Could you give me some examples of products with better technology than the one behind the build? Also I think they even might be cheaper

88IROC350TPI

The original post says $6000 to build the engine... then add on another $2000 for a good overdrive transmission and convertor. You could buy an LSX drivetrain out of a wrecked car/truck, throw a cam, some bolt-ons, and a nitrous kit on it that would make over 500HP and get over 22mpg for that price... maybe even cheaper.

It would also pass the sniffer in most states inspection.

cuisinartvette

Me too cause a 750 hp Gen 1 V8 isnt gonna knock down 25 mpg in a wet dream.