raptere

Hey all,

So, much of my car is called out in my sig. Back in high school when I got my Camaro, I started making modifications with the intention of drag racing in mind. That never really came to fruition, and now after many years of just driving it as a fun car, which I plan to continue to do, I really think I would much more enjoy trying my hand at some autocross or track racing.

I don't need to be exceedingly competitive, especially in the beginning, but I feel like my car as it is now would be outright dangerous to try to road race as is... I also have some concerns about the rust situation happening in my under body, so I really want to try to get into this as inexpensively as I can, in case the car turns out to be not race worthy because of the condition of it...

Suspension:
The bushings are all upgraded which is good, as are the panhard rod and rear lower control arms, but I put lakewood drag shocks in front and rear, and I would think that would be terrible for road racing where you do not want all the weight off your front wheels on acceleration. I also believe I have replaced rear factory springs, and drag racing specific front springs, which probably need to come out. Should I be just going back to stock, or should I get some Koni yellow shocks that everyone talks about and maybe a set of Eibach Pro Kit springs?

Wheels and tires:
I currently am riding on some 15" Centerline Telstar wheels and cobra tires 245 in the back and 215 in the front. Pretty sure those need to go before I really throw the car into any corners with any real confidence. Question is after searching all around it looks like I could try getting some corvette or similar 18" (or 17") wheels, but it would require special spacers to fit which seem to be a lot harder to find these days, not to mention the cost of the wheels. Would I be at that much of a dis-advantage if I just put my factory 16" wheels back on and got some new summer only 245/50-16 tires. I certainly think that would be my cheapest option for the time being. Looking at maybe
GENERAL GMAX RS, or maybe even a cheaper high performance all season tire, though obviously the all season aspect is not needed and will reduce dry grip...

Any other considerations I should be making? I know there are a lot of other threads out there right now, and I have read many of them, but I would like some opinions on my particular situation.

Thanks Guys!

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

I've done a LITTLE autocrossing, so I'll take a swag at a couple of these.

Based on what you said below, you are correct. Not autocross worthy. And at first, the equipment is far less important than learning how to autocross...working on your driving skills...taking a beginners class...I'd encourage joining the SCCA....Study the rule book.

The shocks and springs need to go for sure. If money is tight, stock replacements will do, but you would find the aftermarket options help even more, particularly the dampers. But again, read the rule book first before you start making plans for changes. You'll have to decide what class you want to run in. Then match your parts accordingly. Stock "type" dampers of any type would be allowed, I'm pretty sure. But lowering springs, improved panhard bars and control arms? Those might bump you a class.

More than anything, you need to be able to pass a tech inspection before each event. Make sure you know what they will be looking for, and make sure your car is in good, stock, mechanical condition at a minimum. Not sure what your rust issues are, but make sure they are not critical to the point of not passing an inspection.

You are on the right track. Again, know what the rules allow you to do for each class. Going with a stock 16" wheel might get you into a used set of wheels at a good price, and is "probably" allowed in all classes, as it was a factory size. Downside is the tire selection in 16" is not quite as good as 17". But 17s might bump you a class. I would think used 16's and some Generals would be a good place to start. You'll get several seasons out of them, they will be forgiving on the street for commuting to and from the track, and are probably the best bang-for-the-buck option, IMO.

Go to a local event as a spectator. Learn how it works. Learn about timing, layout, walking the track, how to number your car, where to park, how much it costs, etc, etc. The more that seems familiar when you come back to drive, the better...you will be more able to focus on your car and your driving. Volunteer to work the track setting up cones as they get knocked down. You'll see who's good and who is a ham-fisted poser pretty quickly. Meet a few folks doing it. Ask for tips. Most will be helpful and willing to talk.

As mentioned before, make sure your car is in good (not debatably good, or it's a matter of opinion good, but GOOD) condition. Nothing worse than being all pumped up and primed to run your event, and getting turned away at tech inspection.

Get a GOOD tire gauge. You will be playing with air pressures, and will want an air tank (minimum) and a GOOD gauge. A small compressor would be cool, but not essential to start.

These days a lot of folks will judge their tire pressure based on tire temperatures. And laser temp gauges are CHEAP now compared to when I did this. The real low buck old school way to do this...white shoe polish. Put some on the shoulder of the tire, and see how far it is rolling over in a corner. But again, most folks don't do it this way anymore, and will think you grandpa gave you tech advice. It's also handy for writing your car number and class on the glass.

Get a good helmet. Again, read the rule book. The SCCA has very specific standards on this, and they are non-negotiable. You will want something SNELL rated. It's your head and your life...don't go cheap or DOT. I had good luck with an HJC helmet, but I'm sure there are many more brands to chose from today than when I did this. Never had a helmet? Read the owner manual when you get it! Store it carefully. Don't drop it! Read what the manufacturer says about painting it, or adding decals. These products have chemicals and adhesives which can adversely effect the helmet, and are often not allowed by the manufacturer. It's a piece of safety equipment, not a fashion statement. Etc.

As mentioned, I recommend SCCA membership, and events. Don't have a strong local SCCA region in your area? Look for a local organization that holds autocross events you might wants to attend. Find out what THEY do for rules, inspections, etc. You will find that many follow the SCCA rules. One potential advantage to events run by other clubs...in my experience....I used to enter auto-x events run by a local Corvette club or council. They have bigger, more powerful cars, and tended to run bigger locations, with wider, more wide-open layouts, and a little higher speeds. These might fit your F-body a little better. When I was at university, we had a university auto-x club. I was the president for a couple of years. We had a somewhat snobbish Porsche owner [shocker] [beautiful car with Webers that sounded AWESOME at WOT, but I digress] who was not pleased that the school kid running the university club had the nads to show up and run his daily driver in his auto-x. So he deliberately set the course up too tight for my car to physically get through. I walked the course with him helping him set it up. I pointed this out to him, and he had some smart *** reply. As a result, I've tended to LOOK at the places the clubs run, and select the larger "tracks".

I have no idea if this practice still occurs, but our SCCA region offered a discount off entry fees for members. "Free souls" paid more.

I'm sure some of the other members with more recent experience will chime in.

raptere

That's a lot of great insite, thanks for taking the time to post it!

I may not have been clear, but I do still have my factory wheels. So, since it sounds like wrapping those in some decent summer tires should be enough to get started, that's probably what I'll plan on doing...

Im not sure how bad my rust is compared to other cars out there... there is a lot of it on the floor Boards, I painted it all over with rust reformer. There is a spot where my right heal rests where it's actually soft, may be rusted through to the carpet padding... other than that it doesn't seem that bad, but I swear it feels like my driver seal leans in towards the middle of the car which makes me wonder of the floor pan is sagging... is that even a thing that happens?? Or maybe something is just up with my seat.. I may need to just pull the seat and investigate. The car does have welded in suffrage connectors so that may hold things together front to back at least.

Rule book is something like 400 pages, that's going to take a little while to get through!

https://www.scca.com/downloads/53335...-book/download

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Yeah, there's a lot of info there. But, once you figure out which class you want to run, a lot of it won't apply to you.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

All you really need to have fun at an Autocross is to pass tech inspection. You can wear out parts pretty fast but it's not like you're going to crash or anything like that. The car will do a lot better with different springs, shocks, and tires but that's pretty expensive stuff if you're not yet committed to going that route.

Ahhh, screw the rules. Rules mostly exist to keep your car from getting too good. Just have fun with the hobby of making your car perform better and enjoying the drive. Rankings and points don't matter, man. The smile on your face on a Friday night in the garage does matter.

Road course is far more serious with a lot more speed. Car has to actually work just to be safe. And it's stupid expensive, expect $1000 per weekend IF NOTHING BREAKS. And honestly, the better your car performs the more stuff will break because you're using up more and more of the design limits.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

very good input and advice is written above. I don't need to repeat it, but I will repeat that is is mostly good just to get out there for an event and give it a whirl, before you start spending money on parts. Simply just get out there and see if you even like it. prepare to get your butt kicked by everyone, especially little imports. It is tons of fun, for sure, but parts do break.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

There's a lot to be said for this approach. I was going to expound on that when mentioning the clubs that hols autocross events Vs. SCCA regions. But I figured I'd already written too much as it was.

My point of view was, when I did it, if I stayed within the the rules of the class I wanted to be in, then I could always run a club event where the rules and classes were more lax. But it's hard to go the other way. Personally, I liked staying within the SCCA rules, as our region had a rookie award. I found the points battle interesting, and it gave me something to shoot for...another yard stick to measure against. But everyone will have different ideas on what's fun for them.

z28cp

You may also find that your local SCCA region has a Novice class. Typically open to anyone with little to no autocross experience. No class rules to worry about, just the safety stuff. If they don't have a Novice class, then your best bet would be the CAM-T class. Pretty much, as long as the car has a mostly complete interior, and no aftermarket wing, it is legal for CAM-T. Will be mostly 4th gen and older Camaros, and Fox body (maybe SN95?) and older Mustangs.

As stated above, the big thing is to just get out there and do it! It is great fun, pretty damn safe, and not very expensive. At least when you're first starting out. If you get bit hard by the bug, then God help your bank account, lol. You can go anywhere from stock to OMG crazy with modding your car for autocross. As an example, my car runs in the C Prepared class. Fully gutted interior, full cage, all aluminum 400, Jerico 4-speed, 9" rear. Fiberglass hood, fenders, nose, doors, deck lid. Fender flares. 25.5x14x16 front and 28x14.5x16 rear Hoosier slicks.

All depends on how addicted (or crazy!) you get. LOL

raptere

Sweet second gen! People keep talking about local events, where do I find local event calandets. I feel like I see events in local parking lots sometimes, bit the official solo website only shows a few events pretty far away. Where would I be best to look for Chicagoland / Midwest auto x events?

I'm reading through the rule book to determine my lowest possible racing class, sounds like the elimination of my factory emissions equipment bumps me up to at least the next class... need to keep reading to figure out exactly which... I'm sure the stealth ram intake manifold makes some difference too, but haven't read about that yet.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

https://scca-chicago.com/calendar/

kestell123

Check out the Madison Sports car club. Madison Wi. that is . They should have some events not to far from you. To start don't worry about classes or car mods. Attend an event , have fun and go from there.

Beater79TA

I'm a little late to the party on this one but here is my advice.

1) make sure the car is mechanically sound. No leaks. No broken steering components. Battery is secured. Nothing moves around under the hood, in the hatch area, or inside the car while driving.
2) buy a good helmet. Do not under any circumstances skimp on your safety gear. High quality SA2020 helmets can be found for under $400 and are good for 10 years.
3) mount a fire exteniquisher where you can reach it inside the car. You may never need it but if you do you will want it nearby. In 10 years we have never had to use the one we keep in the car. But there's always one in the car.
4) Find a local group like SCCA and go to spectate and ask about riding with other drivers (you need the helmet for this). Talk to the tech inspector after they are done checking in cars for the day. Tell them what you have and ask what they think.
5) Race the local events. Don't worry about parts or even tires yet. Just go get some seat time. Seat time will tell you rapidly what doesn't work right on your car. Tires and wheels will be your first expenditure. Other items will follow rapidly.

Look at SCCA CAM class to run in. Limited rules other than a 200 TW tire. Based on firends in the Chicago area, the group there is pretty good to run with and does a lot of events at Autobahn with Tri Cities Sports Car Club.

When you move on to road course racing, the cost of just safety equipment goes up rapidly. You will want a cage even if the rules don't require it. You will want a complete firesuit even if the rules don't require it. And you will go through tires, fuel, brakes, etc quickly.

Quite a few people on here can give you advice on parts when you have questions. There are a lot of options out there now. Some better than others. Some with more involved install procedures than others. My only up front advice on parts selection is to focus on companies that actually have shop cars / test cars out competing at these events. That limits your choices to primarily UMI, Detroit Speed, and Speedtech for suspension parts.

We've been doing this since 2010 including an invite to Optima's Ultimate Streetcar Invitiational in 2019. I could give you a $50k parts list to throw at the car but the honest truth is you will get more gains from just driving and learning what you have than you would from throwing an entire catalog of parts at it.

raptere

I know it may be a naïve thing to say, but I hope to get the car to a point where I can do some autocross just for the fun factor, not the competitive factor, and not get sucked in to the point I am dumping tens of thousands of dollars in the car. Honestly I don't have that much money to throw at it.

I know I do have drag racing suspension which is going to have to go, I found this kit which seems like a good place to start at a pretty reasonable price, would you all agree?

1982-92 FBODY LOWERING SPRING KIT, 1"-1.5" LOWERING, KONI (SKU: UMI-207305) $1090
1982-92 FBody Lowering Spring Kit, 1"-1.5" lowering, KONI - Hawks Third Generation (hawksmotorsports.com)



Also, The cheapest way to get into this is to spend 500 on some sporty tires for my factory wheels, my front skinny 15" wheels, again from drag racing, aren't going to work... After I burn through those, and see if I am enjoying things and want to improve further, I'll probably get some 17 or 18 inch 9.5 wide rims and put some 275 wide rubber on all four corners, it sounds like this is a pretty common size people are using and I should be able to fit it without any rubbing. I have been having trouble determining what the pro's and con's are to 17 vs 18 inch wheels. Could you guys chime in with your opinions on that one? I figure larger wheel means lower profile tire, so les sidewall flex but at the expense of ride comfort, which isn't a big deal to me in that car. But I also read about how bigger wheels just adds more rotating mass at a greater radius, which actually slows you down, both in acceleration and in braking... Not sure where the break even point is...

Thanks All,
-Eli

raptere

So I was doing some price checking on my options, and realizing the UMI lowering springs are only $260 on their own, I went to see what advance auto had, since they regularly have good discount codes. They had limited parts available, but did have the Monroe and KYB factory replacement shocks. Prices were similar I figured the KYB may be a lightly better quality product over the Monroe ones. (please post if you disagree) I put them in my cart, an let my Edge browser go though and test all the discount codes. Somehow, it allowed me to apply a 20% off, then a 15% off on top of that, total out the door for all four was just under $200! I just went ahead and ordered them. Its simple enough to go to my local store and return them if I go a different route.

I guess my question now is would factory replacement KYB shocks with the UMI lowering springs, and some sporty factory size tires on my factory 16" rims be enough for me to get started, and see what I like. Maybe even use it for a year or two to hone my stills until I really get to the point that my "equipment" is holding me back. From what I hear it takes a lot of experience to get to that point... At that point maybe I upgrade to some Koni Yellows, but hey the Camaro Z-28 was designed to be a performance car, so I would think the factory style shocks should be at least tolerable, in new condition.

I do admit I need to finish reading through the rule book to figure out which class I'll be in, so if this would be stupid for class related reasons, sorry. Please feel free to explain, but I need to go finish reading the rule book...

Beater79TA

The biggest difference you'll see between 17 and 18 inch wheels is about $800 in tire price between the 2 sizes. As a beginner you won't notice any difference in traction or handling by going to an 18 unless you also go to a 315 width. And that adds about $800 to the cost of a set of tires when you restrict choices to the main autocross tires.

Get a set of Falken 660s in 275/40/17 on a decent set of wheels and go have some fun. You can throw parts at it all day and not gain as much time or have as much fun as simply driving it. Although your season is about to end in the Chicago area.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Indeed. These are great tires and I highly recommend getting some if you can find any left in stock.
Tom is correct, don't let the remainder of 2021 season pass you by. Get out there and get some of the nervousness that comes with being a novice out of the way at a few events, so that you can properly assess your situation over the winter months and make sensible decisions on upgrades.

raptere

Can someone direct me to remaining events this year. I looked on the sites mentioned, and it looked like the autocross season was already over...

Also, what are your thoughts on the factory replacement kyb shocks and struts and umi lowering springs vs the kit with the koni yellows? ~ $600 difference...

I'm also probably also just going to get the 245 General summer tires for my factory 16" x 8" wheels, to get started. I'm not ready to spend another 1600+ dollars for bigger wheels and larger tires, until I'm sure I want to really get into the sport.

Beater79TA

I can't say I'm a fan of KYB but they'll work as a starter shock. Same with the lowering springs. Weight jacks give you more adjustability but also cost more.

For Chicago area SCCA, here is the link. Looks like 2021 season is over. https://scca-chicago.com/autocross/

Tri State Sports Car club is still running for another weekend. https://tsscc.org/

Those 2 are the ones I know of from friends who run in the area. There may be others if you keep looking but you're near the end of racing season.

raptere

So this is what most people use for Autocross? (See Below UMI Weight Jack Kit) $3140 is a little steep for me right now, while I'm just wanting to give it a shot...

Would the KYB factory style replacement at least be the better option vs the Monroe shocks and struts? Or is there really that much to be gained by going to the Koni Yellow shocks and struts, even as a complete novice? The $1040 is slightly more digestible for me at the moment, but its still a stretch. It could honestly come down to EITHER the Koni Yellows OR a set of 17" wheels and 275 tires.... Which would show the greater benefit?

82-92 Camaro/Firebird Weight Jack & Shock Kit, Front/Rear Race Handling, UMI Performance - Hawks Third Generation (hawksmotorsports.com)

Beater79TA

Weight jacks are nice all around. You can adjust spring rates and ride height as desired once they are installed. They also work with any shock you decide to use on the car. (the kit in your picture doesn't exist any more. Those shocks have been discontinued). The easier spring changes and ride height adjustment is why many people use weight jacks instead of just lowering springs. Do what you can afford for now. If you want to change it out later, you can always resell the parts you take off.

Anything will probably be better than a stock style Monroe shock. I have very limited experience with a KYB about a decade ago so I'll let others comment directly to KYB quality. If it comes down to a choice between shocks or tires, go with tires first. Tires will tell you more about what you want to know than shocks will. Tires are also usable for all types of driving if you decide you don't like autocross.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You're way overcomplicating this.

If the car passes tech at the dragstrip it should pass tech at an autox. Just get out there. If you're nervous about your f-body just register your daily driver.

In the 90's I was a competitive autocrosser, but I haven't been for years. I still get out once in a while and I register as non-competitive- basically, I have to pass tech, have a helmet and I get my 3 runs (in some cases you need end up working as a corner worker for a different heat...). I've autocrossed on 4 275/50-15 Nitto drag radials on factory 15" rims on a 3rd gen, I've run a 4th gen WS6 with factory wheels and 275/40-17s (drag radials on the back), I've autocrossed my K1500 blazer on 33" BFG AT's (I'm not sure if that would usually be allowed for fear of flipping over, but the organizer was a friend of mine from when I was competitive), I've run my mother's Ford Taurus and even a Pontiac Sunfire.

If it's mechanically sound and is capable of turning you can run it. Just don't worry about being competitive.

Oh, and if you're running really soft tires (the DR's I mentioned) or nonperformance tires you'll have much better fun if they're somewhat overinflated.

raptere

I hear what you're saying, I do sometimes have a problem over complicating everything...

That said, The car just doesn't handle well at all right now with all the drag racing components on it. I'd really prefer for it to handle better on the street, even if I didn't plan on autocrossing it, so I'm going to make some changes. Then I will definitely get out there and give it a try. I figure this equipment will allow me to have some fun for a season or two, until I burn through the tires, then consider if I want to do wider wheels and tires, and upgrade to koni yellow shocks....And so on and so fourth...

I think I have decided to do the following to get started at minimal cost. Tell me if I'm doing something exceedingly idiotic...
- GENERAL GMAX RS 245/50R16 high performance summer tires on my factory 16x8 wheels...$600 or less with spring sale.
- UMI lowering springs.................................................................................................................... $270
- Front KYB Excel-G Struts and Gas-A-Just Rear Shocks ..............................$165-$25 rebate = $140 (Better deal on Rock Auto)
- HJC 1502-603 - HJC i10 Helmet ..................................................................................................$150 **
TOTAL to get started = $1160

**I have an old full face motor cycle helmet. I admit it is older than the current regulation, but for such a low performance car, I'm not terribly worried. Do you think a local auto cross even would allow it, or do I need to order a fresh helmet as shown above?

Lastly, If I'm changing my front struts, should I be changing the strut mounts too. Looks like it adds about $110 to the project. I admit, they are likely factory on a 148k mi car, and have a bit of rust inside them...

As for classes, It is looking like I am going to have to go at least in the Street Prepared Category. I have subframe connectors that are welded, have removed all of my emissions equipment, and plan to lower the car. It doesn't look like I can fit into a more stock category with those modifications. It also sounds like I will not be terribly competitive, but there is not much I can do at this point, I'll just go have fun. It does look like if I get myself in the correct sub class maybe I'll have a little more luck. Would I be F Street Prepared, or maybe E Street Prepared?

Thanks Everyone!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You don't have a choice WRT to helmet, it has to meet spec, it doesn't matter how fast your car is. If it was me I'd just spring for a SA2020 since that will be legal for anything you're likely to do.

Once you get into the performance range with the spring rates shocks make a bigger difference than springs. I've never been a big fan of KYB's, but that's just me. I'd probably just run cheap factory replacements until I could put some Koni Yellows or better on it.

If you plan on multiple events in a season, buying dedicated race tires and cheap street tires ends up saving you money in the long run, you can kill tires quickly with repeated autocross runs.

If the stock strut mounts are OK then leave them, if not then get aftermarket adjustable.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Those KYB are an improvement with stock springs but one of the issues you'll get in to is that it takes a stronger shock to control a stiffer spring. You might want to look into whether those KYB have enough damping rate for the UMI springs. Shocks are more important than springs so keep that in mind as you proportion out your money into parts.

raptere

Yea I was starting to gather that I was being stupid skimping on the shocks now... I ended up just placing an order for the KONI shocks/struts, and the UMI lowering springs! I'll put them in with the wheels tires I have now and see what I think, I still plan on getting new 245's for my stock wheels in the spring. Hopefully they all show up in the time advertised on Ebay, of all places ebay was the cheapest...

Note, The UMI-207305 kit with koni's and lowering springs, is not available till November, and I'm impatient. so I called UMI and they willingly confirmed the component numbers that go into the kit.
Front: Koni 8741-1030SPORT ("On-Car" adjustable, both kits)
Rear: Koni 8241-1140SPORT (For the "On-Car" adjustable kit) (This is advertised as the 93-02 part, but also works on third gens)
Koni 30-1265SPORT (For the "Off-Car" adjustable kit) (This is advertised as the 82-92 part, but must be removed from the car to adjust)
Springs: UMI Performance 2461

raptere

So I received my springs, and my shocks/struts are supposed to be coming tomorrow. I am now getting myself confused if I am really going to need an adjustable panhard bar, and LCA relocation brackets, to compensate for the lowering of the car and re-centering the rear end under the car.

It sounds like the adjustable panhard bar could be helpful, but I already have an aftermarket non-adjustable one, and if I'm thinking about it right, isn't the rear end only going to shift maybe 1/8" is that enough to require re-centering. I think these springs advertise 1.5" of rear drop. (1" of front drop) Is it critical to get the rear end perfectly centered with one of these adjustable units? Also, looking at options it looks like you can get poly/poly end or poly/spherical end. If I do get a new one, would a poly/spherical be a good choice for autox? It will tighten things up a little more, but still allow a small amount of dampening for cruising.

The LCA relocation brackets, at first sounded necessary, but now I am reading some threads that you want a slightly upward slope of the LCA's towards the rear for ideal geometry. This is how it is at factory ride height, but will get even steeper once dropped. It looks like even the upper hole of the brackets would result in a slightly downward slope towards the rear of the LCA's after installing the lowering springs. They also talk a lot about 60' times which makes me thing they are talking drag racing, but what about for autox and road racing? Advice?

Beater79TA

The rear end doesn't shift much but its enough when you go to larger than stock tires. With 315s on the rear, I need the rear dead center or 1 side will rub on the inner wheel well in high G corners. Stock width tire it wouldn't matter. If you lower the car, the more important piece to make adjustable is the torque arm. That allows you to re-set the pinion angle so you don't wear out the driveshaft u joints quicker and damage the differential or transmision.

raptere

Hey All,
Thanks again for all your support! Time for an update, and of course more questions...

The UMI springs are installed, as are the Koni Yello on the car adjustable front and rear struts/shocks. I also installed a set of BMR LCA relocation brackets. May actually need to move them down from the top hole where they are now to achieve that slightly downloard slope to the rear...

In the process I of course needed other things on a car this old. Rear hard brake line sprung a leak, so I ordered a new stainless prebent set, at first ordered the wrong ones, but have the right ones on the way now. I also found that one of the ball joints in my steering center link was shot, which must have been the reason for my very loose steering, which I have basically been ignoring for years... Hope to actually get the new brake lines installed tonight and go for a spin.

Question time:
I know I need to get a new helmet, I'll probubly get an M2020 helmet as I think they are good for all SCCA, but I can use it with my Moped too.
If you would please sort these purchases in order of most neccissary to least in terms of performance gained and neccessity for not damaging components.
(1 - least important to 10 - most important)
Adjustable torque arm
LCA's with some sort of ball end for free rotation (adjustable)
Adjustable Panhard Rod with some sort of ball end for free rotation

I keep going back and forth daily between getting The General 245\50-16 tires to put on my factory wheels, or 255/50-16 BFG tires to put on my factory wheels, or get some 9.5x17 zr1 wheels or C5 wheels and puting 275/40-17 tires on those.

**This post is a work in progress, I'll update in shortly...

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Good to hear you are making progress!

Can't comment on the suspension parts, but for the wheels and tires, if you swap to the 17" Vette wheels, you will have a few more tire options available to you. I have no knowledge of how those Vetter wheels fit, offset, clearance, etc.

Beater79TA

The vette wheels will require adapters to get the spacing correct so add money for that. The BFG Sport Comp 2s will be fine for beginnnig autocross.

Of all the parts you listed, the adjustable torque arm is likely the one you will need the most. Once you start changing the ride height on the car, you will need to adjust pinion angle using the torque arm to keep the u joints and diff from getting beat up by too much angle.

raptere

Time for an update. I was able to check a few more items off the list at great discounts thanks to black Friday sales.

I went to Northstar Motorsports, which turned out to be 10 min away from my house. Very helpful staff and good variety in stock. I tried on a few different helmets which is key to determining which is best for you, and walked out with a B2 Vision EV. It felt the best on my head, is made by Bell, and was considerably lighter than the HJC H10 which was in the same price range. The owner actually pulled out a scale so we could check.



I also placed my order from OE Wheels for silver silver 17"x9.5" wheels, they were able to offer me a combo deal with discount to also mount and balance the 275/40-17 General G-Max RS summer tires I wanted to try! I have run a lot of calculations and read every thread on here I could about spacers. For these wheels I think I need 2.25" spacers in front, and 1.75" spacers in the back. I have the stock front brakes and rear axle. Problem is I have the car in winter storage where I can't really get in there and remove the current wheels to make final measurements... so the spacers will probably have to wait till spring...

These are the exact wheels: Corvette Wheels - CV01 Corvette ZR1 Wheels - Silver 17 inch Corvette Rims (oewheelsllc.com)
Wheel Offset 56
Bolt Pattern 5-120.65
Hub Size 70.7
Back Spacing 7.45

About all I have left to worry about is getting an adjustable torque arm to correct my pinion angle after the lowering springs, and maybe some LCA's that allow articulation, so I don't have to worry about any binding in turns. I may wait on the latter though, because I'm not sure how noticeable a difference they will make for me as a beginner.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

nice nice. those tires should be pretty decent. they are a 360 tread-wear tire so they aren't super grippy, but they will be good enough to get you out there making some beginner laps. a 200 tread-wear tire is where you want to be if you are getting more serious.

did you ever get out there to watch an event or see any action like we suggested?

raptere

Yea, I understand the tires wont be the most competitive, but they should be tolerable... I do want to be able to drive the car to work every week or two over the summer months. I'd burn through 200 tread wear tires pretty fast on the highway...

I did look at all the local auto x schedules, but all events were over for the season once I started this thread, and committed to getting into this next spring. I did fine a friend of mine actually autox's his miata, and the Chicagoland miata club he is part of, allows other makes and models, so I'm going to join him in the spring!

I had been looking for pics of what these wheels will look like on my car and I at last found a pretty close picture, only difference is these look to be the chrome or silver ones, mine are silver painted spokes with machined rim and this car looks to have stock ride height, so mine will have less fender gap. I think they look great, I'm super stoked!

raptere

Few other topics I could use some wisdom on...

I have read as much as I can find but I'm still struggling to determine if I need to be using hub centric spacers or if lug centric will be acceptable. It appears that the factory wheels are hub centric, is this correct? But, the chamfer on the ID of the hub seems pretty large so maybe it doesn't even make contact. Also, the centerline Telstar wheels I have on now, that have given me no issues, appear to be lug centric. They have center caps that fit loosely in the center hub and are only kept in place by the tension of the wheel flange against the disk flange. Until torqued they can rattle around. I am an engineer by trade, and I know that for anything to pilot on another surface the tolerances have to be very precise. I'm not sure I see that being the case on the disk hubs or the wheel hubs...

Secondly I started out mounting my LCA's in the upper hole of the LCA relocation brackets, but this resulted in LCA's that were nearly level but still slightly angled up towards the rear. My understanding is that you want a slight downward slope to the rear. I lowered my LCA's to the lower hole in the relocation brackets, and now have a pretty substantial downward slope. I just want to make sure this is the right choice to be making at this point. I figure as the springs set, the angle will be come slightly less extreme.

LCA in upper hole:

LCA in lower hole:

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

That's probably the best news of all of it!

raptere

New wheels and tires! Look sweet, can't wait till spring to get them installed! It's going to be a long winter...

Comparison of with my stock 245/50-16 wheels:



They just look like a higher performance setup. I weighed them and got the following:
New 17x9.5 - 49.5 lbs (advertised tire weight 25 Lbs, so wheels 24.5 lbs)
Factory 16x8 Fronts - 47.1 lbs (w/o center caps) (Tire 27 lbs)
Factory 16x8 Rears - 45.9 lbs (w/o center caps) (Tire 27 lbs)

To determine true rotating mass I guess I need to add the spacers and one set of nuts, once I figure them out.

I took a ton of other pics if anyone is interested in seeing any other details...

​​​​​​

Another angled comparison

Showing where material is removed for weight savings. Also you can see there is some sort of raised piloting ring in the hub, but the finish on it doesnt make it look terribly precise, which makes me wonder even more if these wheels are really only intended to be lug centric, and maybe the pilot is just for lining things up prior to properly torquing the lugs...

Extra of the machined outer lip and painted spokes. OE Wheels wheel and tire set was a really good deal! Only charged price of wheels plus tires, minus $100 discount. Valve stems, mounting and balancing, plus Shipping, all free!

thedevilinside

Looks like you're getting closer to on a track with some turns! I would echo what some others have said. Make sure the car is safe and will pass tech, then get to an event regardless what is "best" or installed on the car. You will quickly have an endless list of things on the mental wish list, but also you will already be having a ton of fun. I've run most autoX's I've done with just a daily, sometimes even left the roof rack on since it was right after work on a weeknight. The most important part was simply making sure I committed to participating.

raptere

I see you're in Michigan, do you participate in any events in sw Michigan, northern Indiana, or northern Illinois? Trying to figure out which events to put on my schedule.

Also, I wanted to get it before any inevitable new years price hikes, so I just got a BMR adjustable torque arm so I can correct my pinion angle after lowering the car. After that I'm going to get an alignment and do nothing else till I get a few events under my belt. Have considered articulated LCA's and an adjustable panhard rod, but I don't think either of those are critical...

I will have to sort out wheel spacers in the spring to get the new wheels mounted up too. Pretty sure 2.25" in the front and 1.75" in the rear should be good, bit I wish they weren't such non standard sizes... I'll take more measurements to make sure after I pull the car out of winter storage. I'm also still trying to come to a final decision on whether or not hub centric spacers are really critically necessary...

thedevilinside

I have been focusing on some rally/road trips the past couple years but when I do get to AutoX I try to get to ones at Grissom Air Force Base in Peru, Indiana. The group when I have been is fun, big space, and I got a good amount of runs.

raptere

Grissom AFB looks to be a little over 3 hours from me, could be a possibility. Is that an event on the regular SCCA Solo calendar, or is it put on by some other club or organization?

I got an adjustable BMR torque arm to correct my pinion angle, as soon as I get the car back in my garage in the spring that will go in, and I'll have to take final measurements to order wheel spacers and get my new wheels installed. Then I'm pretty much ready to go.

I recently did a lot of additional reading of the rule book and classes trying to figure out with my car where I will be most competitive. The biggest constraints are that I have removed all of my emissions equipment from the car, cats, air pump, and EGR. I have also installed headers and the stealth ram intake. This bumps me out of a lot of the lower level classes. The tires I currently have are UTQG of 360. I could always go more aggressive in the future. Weight wise my car is still pretty much factory, all seats carpets in place. Spare is even still in place, may consider removing that prior to racing... Should I? Leave it home, or take it out and leave it with my pile of stuff in the lot before my turn?

As far as I read it the best classes where I could stand a chance of being competitive are the following: (1 being first choice, 4 being last choice)
1. CAM T (Classic American Muscle Traditional) - Allows emissions removal, Only for 2002 Camaros and older, coupes with 4 seats, Min weight 3000lb, UTQG 200+, otherwise unrestrictive (Could go to CAM C if CAM T is not available at event)
2. ESP (E Street Prepared) - Allows emissions removal, intended for Muscle cars and foreign grand touring cars, Unrestricted induction and exhaust, DOT R compound tires allowed.
** Possibly swap order of ESP and XS for favorable tire restriction. Should I? **
3. XS (Xtreme Street) - Could be overly competitive with min weight of 2750lb, tires restricted to UTQG 200+, must include all road going components like lights, wipers interior, heater, etc.
4. SM (Street Modified) - 4 seat vehicles, DOT R compound tires allowed, min weight calculated as 2740lb given 5.7L engine and 275 tires. Would only race these classes if it turns out I missed some restriction of the other classes that I don't meet.
5. CP (C Prepared) - American Muscle Cars, Non DOT racing tires, 3000lb min for V8 engines larger that 5.1L, Would only race these classes if it turns out I missed some restriction of the SM that I don't meet.

Are there any other considerations I'm forgetting, would these classes be the ones I should be trying to race in? Also, CAM T and XS are notes as Supplemental Classes which makes it looks like I would be excluded from certain eligibility to things. No contingency rewards not eligible for special challenges and PS points. Is this something I should worry about or not? Also, will these even be options at smaller local events?

thedevilinside

I'm no expert on classes, I just make sure my car is legal for the class I enter it in whether optimized or not. Then I compare myself to cars which are similar. In my experience there were a lot of non-class legal cars running (more so in non-SCCA events) so no need for me to get caught up in the classes.

For Grissom, I only ran there with Indy SCCA. Not sure if others use it too.

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Yea man, don’t get all crazy about the classes, especially if this is just a local weekend event. At a bigger event the staff will make sure you are legal for your class, or they will move you to a different class where you are legal.
Just plan on entering CAM-T class and if they don’t have that one, the tech staff will put you in whatever class is appropriate on the morning of the event .

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also, put that word you used “competitive” on the back burner for a while. As a beginner you don’t want to worry about any competitive mindset. You need to figure your car dynamics out and your driving dynamics. If you go to an event where you are like 1 of 4 in your class, and you finish in spot #4 but make some good runs without knocking cones or going off course… that’s a win. There are going to be some intermediate and expert drivers there who are lying down CONSISTENT fast SMOOTH runs. That’s what you strive for, not just one glory run. Just get out there and wheel the thing and for the first several events you should expect to learn a lot.

raptere

All good points. I come from many years of competitive shooting, USPSA, so I totally get what you mean about just having a good smooth run with no major mistakes as being a big win for yourself, regardless how it compares to the other competitors. I've been watching every you tube video I can find of a thirdgen autocrossing, to see if there is anything to learn there. I also signed up for a free classroom training at a local track next month, (Blackhawk Farms in Northern IL) which I expect to be basically a glorified advertisement, but if I even gain a little tip or trick to use on the course, I'll consider it a day worth spending there.

Punxsutawney Phil did just announce 6 more weeks of winter today, so that is another setback...

raptere

This is one of my favorites videos I've found on YouTube. Looks to be the same car as mine and the same wheels, but I don't know anything else. The run looks really good to me! Anyone know who this is?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

I don't know the car, but that video is sped-up at like 1.5 normal speed.
Ain't no way thats real-time video playback

raptere

Naw, I think it is legit! If you listen to the audio, they call out the time of 36.77 sec at the end, which checks out with the video playback time. Also, the tire screeching all lines up, and I know the song playing in the background, and it is playing at the correct speed.



if you look closely there is a roll cage visible at the rear of the driver's window and its definitly sitting lower than stock, which suggests it may be highly modified... Also, has clear headlight covers. Do those really make any helpfull difference to aero?

IROCZman15

iTrader: (25)

Actually yea,
now I’m watching it on a bigger screen and it looks more real. Phone screen made that car look like it was dancing like a worked up Miata. The audio does line up too

the headlight covers might make a slight difference but at higher speeds. On a short, tight course like that one it’s more
about agility than aero.

raptere

I'm trying to get a better understanding of the whole hub centric vs lug centric spacer debate. Since it may be a deep rabbit hole to go down, I created a new thread.

Help me understand the Hub Centric vs Lug Centric decision - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

raptere

My first autocross event/training starts tomorrow! I think I'm about set. Not like I brought it down to the last moment or anything...

I finished installing my torque arm and setting the pinion angle. I went with -1.3 deg to start. I finished flushing and bleeding the brakes, though they're still a little spongy, so I suspect there could be a new master cylinder in my near future... got all the spacers figured out for my new wheels. And, changed the oil for good measure.

The car is currently at a local shop getting an alignment done. But should be ready soon!

Even picked up a nice bin from Home Depot that fits nicely in the back seat to put all my stuff in at the event.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Hope you have fun and the weather holds tomorrow. It snowed yesterday in Peoria.

If you've got a heavy torque arm with a good front mount then I'd set pinion operating angles pretty much equal. If I error then I error very slightly to the negative. Most time spent driving is at low throttle so that's when most the wear will occur.