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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
Interesting idea but I think I’d miss my headlights too much 🤷🏻♂️
I think the non-stop overheating from the ducting blocking 90% of the airflow from the radiator would suck most. I mean you don't need lights to drive during the day, but overheating is a problem all the time.
[QUOTE=Drew;6345323]I think the non-stop overheating from the ducting blocking 90% of the airflow from the radiator would suck most. I mean you don't need lights to drive during the day, but overheating is a problem all the time.
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Last edited by FRMULA88; 12-23-2019 at 07:40 PM.
Reason: redundant
I don't know Mr. Wizard, why don't you tell me, while you are at it please let me know this too:
How many CFM of air is the carb pulling at 4400 RPM when I launch with the trans brake?
How many CFM of air if is being used from 4400 to 7400 RPM when I shift from 1-2 & again for the 2-3 shift?
How many CFM will flow thru a 4" diameter pipe when the car is traveling 60 to 133 MPH? 5,280 to 11,440 fpm.
How come when people get annoyed they act extra dumb? Enough of that. Let's get real here.
Your goal isn't just to give the engine air. Your engine already has more air available than it can consume. What you want to do is use wind speed to increase air pressure locally at the air intake.
I think the non-stop overheating from the ducting blocking 90% of the airflow from the radiator would suck most. I mean you don't need lights to drive during the day, but overheating is a problem all the time.
The good news is it's only $21 wasted.
Everyone knows that SBC’s don’t make enough power to overheat, that’s just crazy talk lol
Since I only have room for (1) "ram air" intake tube (until I relocate the battery) this will have to do.
If (2) tubes helped Greg pick up 2 tenths & 2 mph over 20 years ago I will be happy with 1 tenth & 1 mph using (1) tube for now.
I didn't enclose the air filter because he did not recommend it, the goal is to direct cooler outside air to carb. I am so close to running a 10.00 I will try it.
I removed the cross tube (took about 10 seconds) I knew that was a bad idea...(tired from work, etc.) I do appreciate the feedback.
I left the elbows with downpipes for another day, if the bottom of the car maybe they will scavenge some air or direct some air to the radiator, either way is a win
Yeah, I think TTOP350 picked up about 2 mph by grabbing from air dam. You can drop down the air dam at the bumper to act as a scoop. Shape the pathway how you want using a bit of thin metal or plastic sheet, and drive a wide swath of air into your tube.
I tried it but one of the bumper tabs quickly split so I put it back to stock to avoid more damage. I see you have sheet metal under your car in that location. I might follow your lead and try that and build another scoop.
Another idea, not sure if this is good or bad.....
The inner fender is a natural collection point and it's really easy to funnel gobs of air to it, way more air than you can pick up with that 4" tube. Maybe use that to your advantage and just seal the tube to the inner fender?
LOL! one more post.... you can tell I've been thinking about this too for my car.
Look at this C6 Corvette Vararam intake. The LS7 guys pick up a solid 4 mph using this. I think the forward facing scoop and plenum are the key. Been wondering how to incorporate this concept into my car.
Seeing that Vette deal reminded me of this for Camaros.
Take this TPI twin filter inlet and modify it....
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4" inlet....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Add it to the old school Ram Air Box (and still being manufactured I think)...
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And you've got this, no? (Unless of course that's some snake oil shame other turbo inlet thing that's out there?)
My car had the TPI induction system on it going to an enclosed air cleaner on a carb when I first bought it. The car ran faster down the track with an open air filter. The TPI induction system is VERY restrictive.
Absolutely. The TPI air filter cases as they are from the factory are terrible.
What gets done is that the case gets split open along the seam and about a 1/2" of plastic stock is sandwiched between and then reassembled. The tube that goes to the throttle gets bumped up to 4". https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...pi-camaro.html
Here's the tricky part. The twin filters as they are, even K & N replacements, don't have enough area to supply anything north of 400 HP. Adapting this to an enclosed filter case with a 14 x 3 element takes care of that. Another approach, as one fellow here at Thirdgen managed to do, was adapt a couple of cone style filters in the same area as the stock filters. All of the baffles are removed as well. The end result I think is air flow capable and slick in that it fits in place of the original. Problem is some aftermarket hoods have too much bulk in the area where the inlet package passes over the rad. Something to measure up before cutting up.
"Back in the day, if you wandered over to the NHRA Pro Stock Truck pits between rounds you’d find something pretty interesting. Nine times out of ten, those race trucks used some form of filter element in their air intake system. They were there to filter out dirt and dust, of course. But more critically, those filters were being used to straighten and diffuse the air before it entered the carburetors. The air cleaner elements weren’t hurting performance—they were improving it. And an air cleaner can do the same thing for your high performance street or race car."
Two factors dictate the filter size: the engine’s cubic inch displacement and RPM at maximum horsepower. Knowing those figures, use this formula to determine the minimum effective filtering area an engine requires, where A equals filtering area:
A = (C.I.D. x RPM) / 25,500
With the effective filtering area established, we can determine the required element height (including the rubber sealing edges), where H equals height and D the estimated maximum element diameter that will fit in the engine bay. The .75 figure is to account for the element’s rubber sealing edges:
H = A / (D x 3.14) + .75
Let’s apply these formulas to a carbureted 454 cubic inch big block V8 with a 6,700 rpm horsepower peak. Applying the formula for filter area, we came up with the following:
119.3 = (454 x 6700) / 25,500
To determine element height, let’s assume the element will be 14 inches in diameter. The correct height is as follows:
2.71 = 119.3 / (14 x 3.14)
If you refer to the Summit Racing catalog, you’ll note that K&N part number KNN-E-3027R is 14 inches in diameter and 3 inches tall, so it would be suitable for our 454.
This formula usually produces an odd element height. If that’s the case, simply select a taller element.
I invested in scales a couple months ago and have kept a log
Prior to the latest weight reduction the vehicle has following major mods: No A/C, no heater, S-10 manual steering box, Dart little M cast iron block, alum heads, alum intake, alum water pump, alum radiator, alum fuel tank, open headers, tubular K member & a-arms, front coil-overs, OEM cast iron front disc brakes, TH400 trans, Ford 9" rear w/ wilwood drag light rear disc brakes, fiberglass hood, Weld alum racing wheels. Full interior with RCI poly race seats for driver & passenger, southside machine sub-frame connectors w/ lift bars and 6 pt. roll cage.
Curb weight without driver & 1/2 tank of fuel: 3,212 #
Race weight with driver: 3,444 #
-167 # weight reduction
New Race Weight: 3,277#
I plan to replace the S-10 manual steering box with a manual steering rack which will remove about 6# ( the rack assembly weighs 12# and eliminates the center link, idler arm, inner tie rods)
I plan to replace the OEM rear springs and time tested 50/50 lakewood shocks with a coil-over setup using Viking dbl. adj. shocks. This should remove a little weight but more important let's me adjust ride height to shift some weight to the rear.
The current weight bias is 55% Front 45% rear. A 50/50 weight bias will help launch the car better and better 60' time = better 1/4 mile ET.
I do not want lower the front coil-overs to shift the weight (I am close to stock ride height, lowering the front makes loading the car on the trailer a pain in the ***)
The combination of weight loss/weight shifting, "ram air", and ability to dial in my rear suspension for best 60' time should all help me reach my goal.
LOL I still have a complete windshield wiper system and a nice stereo system (no amps just high-end dash & 6x9 rear speakers) so there is some more dead weight that could come out.. Still it's nice to bring a "street car" to the track and run respectable times.
I don't know how much the Dart iron block weighs, but I lost ~120 pounds moving from iron LS truck block to an aluminum LS7 block. Changing up engine is hefty coin though. Not worth it unless you wanted to change it anyway.
Size? Primary and collector? Just curious if there's anything to be gained there horsepower-wise.
Lemons headers for 18 degree heads; the primaries are 1 7/8" stepped to 2" that merge into 4" collectors.
No short cuts were taken on the build of this 421 engine. 6 years and still running strong.
I don't know how much the Dart iron block weighs, but I lost ~120 pounds moving from iron LS truck block to an aluminum LS7 block. Changing up engine is hefty coin though. Not worth it unless you wanted to change it anyway.
The Dart little M cast iron block is heavier than the OEM block.
The Dart little M aluminum block is 85# lighter than the cast iron version.
The current weight bias is 55% Front 45% rear. A 50/50 weight bias will help launch the car better and better 60' time = better 1/4 mile ET.
50/50 is nice but not always required. My car is back halved with a 4-link. It's still nose heavy and I pull the front wheels past the 60' mark. The nice thing about the 4-link is adjustability. I need to drop the IC and move it forward to help keep the front end on the ground. That's something that's hard to do with a basic coil over system and a torque arm suspension.
Open headers for sure. But the collector length has a lot to do with the exhaust pulse tuning. Get the length wrong and you can manufacture a significant torque loss. Get it right and the benefits of greater volumetric efficiency come your way along with the boost in output it brings.
If you're looking for tenths, this may be worth investigating.
That said, as a drag racing orientated engine, when at the strip, I would venture a guess that your RPMs are seldom below your peak torque RPM given the trans brake at all.
my peak torque is at 5700 RPM.. I launch off the brake at 4400 which is about 40 lb ft less torque than peak.
Once I have the rear coil overs installed and shift my weight bias I will try to raise the launch rpm. I tried before and anything above 4400 ruined the 60' time.
Version 1.5 now with RH side inlet tube installed and in progress mock-up of the air pan/heat shield for the cowl induction hood.
I cut out the battery tray and sectioned it with 3" strips of sheet stock then welded it back in 3" lower from the original height
This gave me room to install the RH inlet tube on top of the battery to the core support opening I enlarged behind the headlight doors.
Once I am done with the cardboard mock-up it will become my template for the aluminum sheets.
The air filter base with be the main support and the air pan final size will match inside width of the cowl hood... 28" wide
The air pan / heat shield will help keep the outside air collected by the cowl hood scoop from mixing with hot under hood air and feed more cool air to the carb.
The air filter assembly will help reduce the turbulence and smooth the air flow to the carb
The inlet tubes should pick up more fresh air from the head light holes
Essentially I am making a very large air box using the cowl hood to form most of the sides and the air pan to form the bottom
We will see how the motor likes the steady supply of directed outside air versus outside air just dumping in thru the cowl & mixing with the under hood air.
The latest issue of Hot Rod has a nice article on "ram air" induction & worth a read for those inclined to make some additional HP power without $$ Nitrous, Blowers, or Turbos.
I am looking for a couple tenths... then when I am in the 9 s I will of course want to go faster LOL.
Version 1.5 now with RH side inlet tube installed and in progress mock-up of the air pan/heat shield for the cowl induction hood.
I cut out the battery tray and sectioned it with 3" strips of sheet stock then welded it back in 3" lower from the original height
This gave me room to install the RH inlet tube on top of the battery to the core support opening I enlarged behind the headlight doors.
Once I am done with the cardboard mock-up it will become my template for the aluminum sheets.
The air filter base with be the main support and the air pan final size will match inside width of the cowl hood... 28" wide
I'm late to the thread but I will give you my $.02. It's funny that that 82-92 fbody go fast book is still being read, I saw that 25 years ago. I have an 89 TA. I cut a 4 inch hole in my passenger side battery tray area (my battery is on my drivers side) and ran my 4 inch tube from the front of the throttle body through that hole in the battery tray and down to a hvac scoop i bought from home depot. If you take out the passenger side fog light and put the hvac scoop behind the fog light opening, you can attach the 4 inch pipe to the outlet and then turn it 90 degrees upward. I have attached a pic of the scoop i used. it just wedged itself in there once you use a screw clamp on the 4inch hose it will hold it self in place. i would go to the track, make a pass, then hook up my 'ram air' and pick up 1.5 tenths and 2 mph every time. before i left the track it disconnected it and put the air filter back on and drove home. it works
It depends... Aluminum is a pretty killer conductor. It'll absorb heat, which it'll transfer to air above it, and enough airflow will carry the heat away. If the airflow is stagnant it'll heat up quickly. In this application it's not going to matter much, the added weight and complexity of OP's air labyrinth is going to makes the car as much slower as the ram air will make it faster, and now he's gotta work around 25 miles of drain pipe. But OP really doesn't want critique, he wants back pats. Which is why he should build it, get some results that show it was worthwhile, THEN post about it.
It depends... Aluminum is a pretty killer conductor. It'll absorb heat, which it'll transfer to air above it, and enough airflow will carry the heat away. If the airflow is stagnant it'll heat up quickly. In this application it's not going to matter much, the added weight and complexity of OP's air labyrinth is going to makes the car as much slower as the ram air will make it faster, and now he's gotta work around 25 miles of drain pipe. But OP really doesn't want critique, he wants back pats. Which is why he should build it, get some results that show it was worthwhile, THEN post about it.
OP, thats me, is sharing his progress which is the whole point of this forum. OP is drag racer for past 27 years and doesn’t need back pats. Line up your car or run your keyboard. I have a car
12-22-2019, 09:06 PM
lol 
But OP really doesn't want critique, he wants back pats. Which is why he should build it, get some results that show it was worthwhile, THEN post about it.