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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
Sorry to hear you had to swap pans but the Canton pan won’t disappoint, I ran it on my old Iroc.
I’ll be at UMI as well the end of July, looking forward to seeing your car in person!
Originally Posted by Fullmonte77
I will also be at the UMI autocross. Definitely looking forward to seeing this thing in person.
Really hoping I can make it. I'm behind on my forum updates but the car is running and driving right now but I am battling some overheating issues. Hoping the water pump is the issue... just waiting on some parts. Haven't gotten it over 30mph yet and need to get 500 break in miles on my clutch in the next few weeks. Fingers crossed I don't come across too many more issues.
Really sweet project! I am just getting started on my '89 GTA pro-touring project. Your thread has been a very nice read, and VERY INFORMATIVE! Looking forward to more updates on your car!
DR.K.
First, my exhaust. I did a LOT of research on what exhaust I wanted to run. When I first bought the car, it had no mufflers at all and just straight pipes out the back and I hated it. I don't mind a loud car, but there's a difference between sounding good and just being plain loud. So shortly after I bought it I had a local muffler shop throw in an off-brand performance muffler. It definitely quieted it down and it sounded good around town. However when I went to the Optima event at NJMP before I took the car apart, it was the quietest car there! What I ended up deciding on was a GMMG chambered exhaust. Definitely not a cheap system (especially for my "budget" build)
, but it's a full stainless 3" system (from the y-pipe back) and it should sound a little different than the typical Flowmaster or Magnaflow systems out there.
I had my car taken to a speed shop local to me to connect up my y-pipe to the GMMG system. It was a tight fit putting the y-pipe under the oil pan but I'm really happy with the results. The system is also built into 3 sections with nice stainless clamps so it's really easy to remove if I ever need to. For tips, I wanted to keep with the subtle theme and just had them weld on some turndowns right before the rear bumper. You almost can't even see them when you're standing next to the car.
No videos yet so you'll have to believe me when I say it sounds awesome! It might actually be a little too loud for my taste but in the future if I decide to add a resonator upstream I can do that.
While at the shop, I also had them check the wheelbase, rear axle centerline and do a full alignment. For alignment specs, I used UMI's recommended settings for an aggressive street car.
Picked up the car and decided to take a chance and drive it home. Keep in mind the furthest I had driven the car before this was down to the end of my street and back to make sure the clutch and brakes were working OK. The shop is about a 30 minute drive home and about halfway home I ran into some big issues. The car overheated so bad it pretty much drained the entire radiator of coolant as it steamed away in a Toyota parking lot I was able to pull over into. Another tow truck ride home!
So, once I got the car home I started digging into what happened. The first thing was why my temp gauge wasn't working.... every since I had the car back running my gauge would either be at 0 or pegged. Didn't think much of it at the time but obviously I paid a price for not getting it worked out before driving the car. I made sure it was grounded correctly, verified the wiring was OK and ended figuring out that I had installed a switch and not a gauge sender. Duh! Must have ordered the wrong part number way back when.
So, once the gauge was working OK I could actually tell when my car was overheating. The car was ok idling in my driveway and holding steady at 190, but as soon as I started driving it would over heat very quickly. As in under 5 minutes my gauge would be in the red. I re-bled the coolant system and still had issues. I then thought the water pump might be an issue, as it had come with the second hand serpentine setup I picked up used. The serpentine setup requires a counter clockwise pump and I really didn't know what kind of water pump this was and it very well could be the wrong one. So, I picked up a new one and installed it... no help! At least I know I have a new water pump now!
I then started thinking the worst... was my timing way off and running too retarded? Was there a blockage somewhere? Do I have a head gasket issue? I ended up getting lucky and finding out the issue by chance. I was walking in front of the car while it was idling and felt the fan blowing on my leg... I had them wired backwards! That explained why it would stay cool at idle, but when I started driving it would be fighting against the incoming air trying to get through the radiator. A simple swap of the wires and everything seems to be staying cool now.
Time for some test miles!
Last edited by garage_engineer; 07-11-2020 at 10:12 PM.
However when I went to the Optima event at NJMP before I took the car apart, it was the quietest car there! What I ended up deciding on was a GMMG chambered exhaust.
Do you any close up pics of how you ran your pipes off the Y pipe and over the subframe connector? I'm trying to route mine but keep running into clearance issues there.
First, my exhaust. I did a LOT of research on what exhaust I wanted to run. When I first bought the car, it had no mufflers at all and just straight pipes out the back and I hated it. I don't mind a loud car, but there's a difference between sounding good and just being plain loud. So shortly after I bought it I had a local muffler shop throw in an off-brand performance muffler. It definitely quieted it down and it sounded good around town. However when I went to the Optima event at NJMP before I took the car apart, it was the quietest car there! What I ended up deciding on was a GMMG chambered exhaust. Definitely not a cheap system (especially for my "budget" build)
, but it's a full stainless 3" system (from the y-pipe back) and it should sound a little different than the typical Flowmaster or Magnaflow systems out there.
I had my car taken to a speed shop local to me to connect up my y-pipe to the GMMG system. It was a tight fit putting the y-pipe under the oil pan but I'm really happy with the results. The system is also built into 3 sections with nice stainless clamps so it's really easy to remove if I ever need to. For tips, I wanted to keep with the subtle theme and just had them weld on some turndowns right before the rear bumper. You almost can't even see them when you're standing next to the car.
No videos yet so you'll have to believe me when I say it sounds awesome! It might actually be a little too loud for my taste but in the future if I decide to add a resonator upstream I can do that.
While at the shop, I also had them check the wheelbase, rear axle centerline and do a full alignment. For alignment specs, I used UMI's recommended settings for an aggressive street car.
Picked up the car and decided to take a chance and drive it home. Keep in mind the furthest I had driven the car before this was down to the end of my street and back to make sure the clutch and brakes were working OK. The shop is about a 30 minute drive home and about halfway home I ran into some big issues. The car overheated so bad it pretty much drained the entire radiator of coolant as it steamed away in a Toyota parking lot I was able to pull over into. Another tow truck ride home!
So, once I got the car home I started digging into what happened. The first thing was why my temp gauge wasn't working.... every since I had the car back running my gauge would either be at 0 or pegged. Didn't think much of it at the time but obviously I paid a price for not getting it worked out before driving the car. I made sure it was grounded correctly, verified the wiring was OK and ended figuring out that I had installed a switch and not a gauge sender. Duh! Must have ordered the wrong part number way back when.
So, once the gauge was working OK I could actually tell when my car was overheating. The car was ok idling in my driveway and holding steady at 190, but as soon as I started driving it would over heat very quickly. As in under 5 minutes my gauge would be in the red. I re-bled the coolant system and still had issues. I then thought the water pump might be an issue, as it had come with the second hand serpentine setup I picked up used. The serpentine setup requires a counter clockwise pump and I really didn't know what kind of water pump this was and it very well could be the wrong one. So, I picked up a new one and installed it... no help! At least I know I have a new water pump now!
I then started thinking the worst... was my timing way off and running too retarded? Was there a blockage somewhere? Do I have a head gasket issue? I ended up getting lucky and finding out the issue by chance. I was walking in front of the car while it was idling and felt the fan blowing on my leg... I had them wired backwards! That explained why it would stay cool at idle, but when I started driving it would be fighting against the incoming air trying to get through the radiator. A simple swap of the wires and everything seems to be staying cool now.
Time for some test miles!
Man that car looks angry! Love the wheels and stance! The only thing that stands out as "bad" are your yellowed front parking/turn lamps. I would suggest a pair of the ultra-clear from depot, or maybe even the lightly smoked ones. Either way, it's such a small thing on a truly gorgeous car!
DR.K.
Do you any close up pics of how you ran your pipes off the Y pipe and over the subframe connector? I'm trying to route mine but keep running into clearance issues there.
Not at the moment but I can try to grab some next time I am in the garage. Feel free to remind me if I forgot.
We did have to crush the pipe a bit to get it around brace... probably a little reduction in flow but worth the tradeoff for good ground clearance and not rattling.
Man that car looks angry! Love the wheels and stance! The only thing that stands out as "bad" are your yellowed front parking/turn lamps. I would suggest a pair of the ultra-clear from depot, or maybe even the lightly smoked ones. Either way, it's such a small thing on a truly gorgeous car!
DR.K.
Thanks for the compliments. I agree on the lights and they are on my list along with getting rid of the "blue" headlight bulbs that are on there now. Just trying to prioritize getting it running well and reliable then we'll upgrade the looks.
OK I need to reach out for some quick help. I am in the process of searching this forum and some Facebook groups for answers but if anyone following this thread can help me get to an answer faster I would greatly appreciate it! My clock is running out before the UMI autocross!
First problem - something is not right with my throttle linkage. As you can see from the pics, it looks like I am either missing a piece, or the throttle cable is wrong or there's a mismatch of parts. Either way, I don't like how the cable is rubbing on the linkage of the throttle body. Can anyone tell what is wrong?
The second problem is my sluggish throttle response. I have reset my IAC, adjusted the idle speed and have the TPS dialed in which helped a bit, but when I punch the gas while already moving, the car stumbles and then slowly builds RPM. My initial thought is that it needs more timing. I am currently at 10deg initial timing with 44psi fuel pressure on 24lb/hr injectors. I have a stock chip (I know, I need to upgrade this) so I guess my only tuning options are to keep playing with timing and fuel pressure. I really need to get a data logger and a custom chip, but no way I can get that done in the next 2 weeks. Any thoughts here? My next plan is to try 12deg initial but where does that get me at full advance with a stock chip?
OK I need to reach out for some quick help. I am in the process of searching this forum and some Facebook groups for answers but if anyone following this thread can help me get to an answer faster I would greatly appreciate it! My clock is running out before the UMI autocross!
First problem - something is not right with my throttle linkage. As you can see from the pics, it looks like I am either missing a piece, or the throttle cable is wrong or there's a mismatch of parts. Either way, I don't like how the cable is rubbing on the linkage of the throttle body. Can anyone tell what is wrong?
The second problem is my sluggish throttle response. I have reset my IAC, adjusted the idle speed and have the TPS dialed in which helped a bit, but when I punch the gas while already moving, the car stumbles and then slowly builds RPM. My initial thought is that it needs more timing. I am currently at 10deg initial timing with 44psi fuel pressure on 24lb/hr injectors. I have a stock chip (I know, I need to upgrade this) so I guess my only tuning options are to keep playing with timing and fuel pressure. I really need to get a data logger and a custom chip, but no way I can get that done in the next 2 weeks. Any thoughts here? My next plan is to try 12deg initial but where does that get me at full advance with a stock chip?
Thanks in advance! I'll keep searching myself...
I'm pretty sure you have your throttle linkage on the wrong Post. In pic #3, if you look just to the right, you will see an unused post. I think the one you are currently attached to, is for the auto trans throttle valve. Been a while since I have messed with an intact TPI setup, though..
I was running 14advanced, on my last L98 car, but every car is different, and you are pretty far from stock. I would check voltage at the TPS, at "closed" 1/2 and Wide-open, to make sure your ECM is getting the right signal. If that's good, then I think you are on the right track with timing.
I agree, on the visual items. It's basically a race car; Form should follow function.
DR.K.
I agree that i think your throttle cable is on the wrong post of the bracket. try moving it and see if the geometry looks better and if the action of moving the throttle pedal changes
Thanks for the quick comments and replies everyone, much appreciated.
Originally Posted by drknow90rs_ss@y
I'm pretty sure you have your throttle linkage on the wrong Post. In pic #3, if you look just to the right, you will see an unused post. I think the one you are currently attached to, is for the auto trans throttle valve. Been a while since I have messed with an intact TPI setup, though..
I was running 14advanced, on my last L98 car, but every car is different, and you are pretty far from stock. I would check voltage at the TPS, at "closed" 1/2 and Wide-open, to make sure your ECM is getting the right signal. If that's good, then I think you are on the right track with timing.
I agree, on the visual items. It's basically a race car; Form should follow function.
DR.K.
Originally Posted by IROCZman15
I agree that i think your throttle cable is on the wrong post of the bracket. try moving it and see if the geometry looks better and if the action of moving the throttle pedal changes
For the timing, I bumped mine up to 13 last night and it seems to be a bit better. I haven't made any hard pulls up to redline yet though so I'll have to be careful with any pinging. When you had yours at 14deg, was that with a stock timing table?
Regarding the throttle linkage, I was under the impression that the outside post was for cruise control. I have had the cable on there in the past, but because of the placement of the post is "higher" position on the bracket, the cable needs to pull down and then back... essentially making the throttle feel like an on/off switch bacause it's not a smooth linear motion. I hope that makes sense. I can put it back and try again, its a simple swap, and maybe with the changes I've made to the TPS and IAC it will be a bit better.
The later 90-92(?) linkage has a nice cam for smooth engagement, but unfortunately I can't swap out just the throttle linkage. I would need to get a whole new throttle body.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Stumble is likely fuel, not spark. Look at your Acceleration Enrichment.
Thanks for the tip, I will definitely try bumping up the fuel pressure. I currently don't have any data logging or chip burning equipment so that might be my band-aid for now.
Last edited by garage_engineer; 07-15-2020 at 01:02 PM.
[QUOTE=garage_engineer;6384563]Thanks for the quick comments and replies everyone, much appreciated.
For the timing, I bumped mine up to 13 last night and it seems to be a bit better. I haven't made any hard pulls up to redline yet though so I'll have to be careful with any pinging. When you had yours at 14deg, was that with a stock timing table?
Regarding the throttle linkage, I was under the impression that the outside post was for cruise control. I have had the cable on there in the past, but because of the placement of the post is "higher" position on the bracket, the cable needs to pull down and then back... essentially making the throttle feel like an on/off switch bacause it's not a smooth linear motion. I hope that makes sense. I can put it back and try again, its a simple swap, and maybe with the changes I've made to the TPS and IAC it will be a bit better.
The later 90-92(?) linkage has a nice cam for smooth engagement, but unfortunately I can't swap out just the throttle linkage. I would need to get a whole new throttle body.
Thanks for the tip, I will definitely try bumping up the fuel pressure. I currently don't have any data logging or chip burning equipment so that might be my band-aid for now.[/QUOTE
I was using stock timing tables, yes. That motor was pretty much stock, with an untouched prom.
DR.K.
yea, I looked, I think you are right and I was mistaken about which post the throttle cable should be on, but it still seems like yours has interference, so somehow it needs to be adjusted. I can't give you advice on the ignition timing because my setup is much different than yours is. different block, displacement, heads, compression ratio, cam, and efi stuff.
I hope you get everything sorted out as much as you can and in time for next week !
OK more updates. I keep driving, finding issues, fixing them and then driving it harder and repeat.
One I solved the overheating issue I was able to get out and take the car on some longer drives, but keeping close to my house in case something were to let go. The next issue that popped up was a loud ticking noise from my passenger side valve cover. Since I had been having some driveability issues I mentioned in an earlier post, I thought maybe I was getting a sticking valve or a lifter was not fully pumping up. If either of those was the case, I wanted to get it fixed pretty quickly because they can cause some major engine damage. So I pulled the valve cover and took a close look at all of my rockers and pushrods on that side. All the pushrods were straight, none of the rockers were loose and nothing else seemed out of place. I also pulled the plugs to see if one cylinder was behaving differently than the others but they all looked the same.
The next possible thing that could cause a ticking noise is an exhaust leak. So next, I pulled the headers and found my problem:
As you can see, there was an obvious mark on the center exhaust port where the exhaust was leaking. Digging a bit deeper into this, my heads have D-port exhaust ports and my headers are oval port. Another thing I didn't quite check when I put the car back together and just assumed the previous owner picked the right parts. This makes it tough to find the right size header gasket. If you look closely in the pic, you can see the sealing area is a bit off center which doesn't help but even if it was centered there would no be much sealing area. Being in a time crunch, I didn't have time to swap headers and re-do my y-pipe, so i replaced the gasket with the same part number and did my best to center it better. So far it seems to be holding up.
While i was working on the passenger header, I checked the wires nearby and noticed that some were starting to melt from being too close to the headers. Glad I caught it in time as re-soldering the harness way down there would be a tough job. I did my best to hide as many wires as I could during the build, but sometimes functionality takes precedence over appearance. Here are the wires that were getting melted... this is looking down at the passenger header with the AC box on the left:
I would have liked to have routed the harness higher, but was only able to raise it up a bit and wrapped it in DEI heat shielding, Should be OK for now but I will keep an eye on it:
Next issue to address was a rough idle I was getting while out driving around. Sometimes the car would idle OK around ~700rpm, but other times it would be up around 1200 or 1500rpm. When it was idling high, I would try adjusting the idle speed screw but nothing was happening. Weird. Digging into it a bit deeper, I found that one of my throtlte blades was hanging up on the inner bore of the throttle body. This was preventing the blade from fully closing, essentially keeping the engine at part throttle. I loosened up the screws and let the blade self-center which helped a lot. I then reset my idle speed a bit and made sure the TPS was in spec.
So, after getting all these issues figure out I was back out to driving. Driveability seems to be improved but still needs some work. There seems to be a big hole in acceleration between 3000 and 3500 rpm and not much response down low. I think I may have maxed out my abilities with tuning using just base timing and fuel pressure and need a custom chip to get me the rest of the way. I am currently running a stock chip which I'm sure is struggling to keep up with the increased air and fuel required by my AFR heads, cam and big intake. That'll be on my list soon.
SO everything seemed to be going OK and I started making some harder pulls on some on-ramps and taking some harder corners which revealed a couple more issues. First, I had some rubbing on the driver side rear which just needed a bit more persuasion with the big hammer. My strategy to find rubbing issues has been to fix the area with either a hammer or removing some material but then the key part is making sure I paint it before going for another drive. If the tire rubs again, it will take off the paint and makes it very obvious where the issue is (and if I fixed it or not).
In the front, I did a nut and bolt check and found my wheel bearings were a tad loose so that was another thing I was glad to find. Tightened those up a bit and snug up some other bolts in the suspension as well:
Alright, so back out for another test drive. Everything in the suspension feels great, but halfway through the drive my exhaust gets SUPER loud so I pulled back home to check it out. I found that the bolts on my header collectors had backed out and some were even missing. When a bolt loosens up on a header collector, the gasket really doesn't stand a chance as the hot exhaust gases blowing by it just destroy it:
So, I didn't think much of it and popped in these aluminum ones which supposedly can stand up a bit better to heat and seal really well.
Installed, went for a drive and same thing... the gaskets blew out within 20 minutes of driving. Look at the melted aluminum!
So obviously I had a bigger problem here, I pulled off my y-pipe to take a closer look. It looks like my flanges are pretty warped... which explains why the exhaust was able to leak out despite my tightening the bolts as tight as I could:
So we are totally up to date now.. I just dropped my y-pipe off at the exhaust shop to straighten the flanges last night. Should be done today and I can hopefully get the exhaust installed and tested by tomorrow. After that, I think this is as good as the car is going to get for now. I'll see how it goes at the autocross, I might go a little easy at first and ramp up from there. If I come in last that's ok, I'm just happy to be out there!
Back out to the garage...
Last edited by garage_engineer; 07-20-2020 at 08:06 AM.
lots of tinkering with things and troubleshooting is common with as big of a project as you took on. luckily you went after the problems scientifically and figured out stuff properly liek the throttle blades and tire scuffing
are you trailering the car out there or street driving it ?
lots of tinkering with things and troubleshooting is common with as big of a project as you took on. luckily you went after the problems scientifically and figured out stuff properly liek the throttle blades and tire scuffing
are you trailering the car out there or street driving it ?
Trailering for sure. Some day I will get it to the point where I can confidently drive it to race tracks but not quite there yet.
As you can see, there was an obvious mark on the center exhaust port where the exhaust was leaking. Digging a bit deeper into this, my heads have D-port exhaust ports and my headers are oval port...
So obviously I had a bigger problem here, I pulled off my y-pipe to take a closer look. It looks like my flanges are pretty warped... which explains why the exhaust was able to leak out despite my tightening the bolts as tight as I could:
.
What heads to you have? Do you have the port dimensions?
As a suggestion, the very best header and collector gaskets are Remflex. Bare none. Those "warped" flanges wouldn't be an issue.
What heads to you have? Do you have the port dimensions?
As a suggestion, the very best header and collector gaskets are Remflex. Bare none. Those "warped" flanges wouldn't be an issue.
Thanks for the suggestions, unfortunately not enough time to order them right now and get them on the car before the weekend. If it keep happening thought I will certainly try these. Heads are very early AFR 195s by the way and I don't have port dimensions at the moment.
Quick update - still plugging away at the car and it seems to be fighting me every step of the way. It could because I am rushing, by every job seems to involve a stripped bolt, an unexpected part breaking or something else, but I guess that's hot rodding!
I was able to get my y-pipe back from the exhaust shop with a cleaned up flange and some new gaskets so hopefully that cures my exhaust leak issue. While i had to y-pipe pan down, I pulled my oil pan down and cleaned up the gasket and flanges in an attempt to help stop a pretty bad oil leak I've been having. That's all back together now as of last night.
Unfortunately when I went to hook up the battery and test drive the car, my starter starting SMOKING and my positive terminal post on the battery literally melted. Talk about a scary moment!
I did a bit of problem solving and it seems that what happened was the positive battery cable shorted itself to the starter body. This happened because there should be a plastic washer that separates the nut on the positive post but it looks like it was either damaged (by moving the started around to install the y-pipe) or it melted at some point.
So, I'm currently on the search for a new starter that will fit with my header and oil pan combo, or some high-temp teflon washers I can use to get by with my current starter. Oh, and I need to re-make my positive battery cable and get that set up in the car. Gotta load up the trailer tonight too!
This will most likely be my last post before the UMI Autocross... see everyone there that is going and I will update with the results next week.
Quick update - still plugging away at the car and it seems to be fighting me every step of the way. It could because I am rushing, by every job seems to involve a stripped bolt, an unexpected part breaking or something else, but I guess that's hot rodding!
I was able to get my y-pipe back from the exhaust shop with a cleaned up flange and some new gaskets so hopefully that cures my exhaust leak issue. While i had to y-pipe pan down, I pulled my oil pan down and cleaned up the gasket and flanges in an attempt to help stop a pretty bad oil leak I've been having. That's all back together now as of last night.
Unfortunately when I went to hook up the battery and test drive the car, my starter starting SMOKING and my positive terminal post on the battery literally melted. Talk about a scary moment!
I did a bit of problem solving and it seems that what happened was the positive battery cable shorted itself to the starter body. This happened because there should be a plastic washer that separates the nut on the positive post but it looks like it was either damaged (by moving the started around to install the y-pipe) or it melted at some point.
So, I'm currently on the search for a new starter that will fit with my header and oil pan combo, or some high-temp teflon washers I can use to get by with my current starter. Oh, and I need to re-make my positive battery cable and get that set up in the car. Gotta load up the trailer tonight too!
This will most likely be my last post before the UMI Autocross... see everyone there that is going and I will update with the results next week.
Hope you get everything fixed. If we are not in the same group I will try to get some video and pics of your car running the course. If something does happen and you need parts while at the race UMI will certainly help you out. I also work for a heavy equipment dealer like 4 miles from the track and have access to lots of stuff you may need. See you there!
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 07-22-2020 at 07:42 PM.
Wow! I really hope you make it through the autocross course. I'm pretty sure you will, as you appear to be very good at problem solving, and obviously have the drive to do it. For header gaskets, I prefer the copper gaskets that have a "crush-to-fit" flange around the exhaust port. I went through several sets of the "premium" gaskets on my'86 IROC, then my best friend (91firebirdfun , on these boards suggested I try those. Several years later, I am still using the same set.
I really want to see video and pictures of your car tearing up the track!
DR.K.
Was nice meeting you this weekend. Car looks as good in person as it does in your pics. Sucks that you broke the torque arm and couldn’t finish out the second day. I did get a few pics of your car out on track.
Last edited by Fullmonte77; 07-30-2020 at 01:39 PM.
Hi Matt, was nice meeting you at UMI. Sorry you had the broken torque arm and couldn't get it resolved but hopefully you're back up and running soon, if not already. Beautiful car and hope to see you there again next year!
Finally back with an update! I focused 100% on the car in the month or 2 leading up to the UMI autocross so I had some catching up to do once I got back home. As you'll read below I also broke my torque arm at the event so I've been waiting on some parts while I catch up on everything else.
Quick summary of the UMI autocross event: It was a great time! Despite all of my concerns and having maybe 20 test miles on the car, it did great. The car started and ran fine, despite still having some slow throttle response. I took it easy on the first couple of runs but slowly ramped it up from there. I had some rubbing issues in the back that I discovered once i started pushing the car a bit. I had brought some spare spacers I had lying around and some others were very generous to let me borrow some. I kept adding spacers every run and once I pieced together the right combination that I needed, I measured the stack and was able to order some nice aluminum spacers to work. Summit was actually on-site and I was able to order the spacers and get them delivered the next day right to the track. Nice!
On the second day, I on one of my last runs in the morning session I heard a loud bang after a particular corner where you come off the banking and into the infield section of the course. I backed off and limped the car back to the pits and it was pretty obvious what the issue was, my torque arm was in 2 pieces! This pretty much ended my day, and luckily this was a UMI hosted event so I was able to have a couple of their engineers take a look at my car and recommend the pieces I needed to get her back up and running. Thanks Ramey!
Overall, UMI puts on an awesome event and I would highly recommend it to anyone. They have created such a cool facility for autocrossing and their events are run top-notch and super smooth. Lots of runs throughout the day with minimal downtime. I'll be back next year for sure!
UMI was pretty backed up with their orders and I just got all of my pieces last week so I'll be sure to document the installation and also show how my old torque arm broke (it was an older Spohn piece). For now here's a photo dump from the weekend:
Glad i got to see your car in person and talk to you a little bit. UMI is a great company and they treat you like family. I'm lucky enough to be friends with some of them and live 10 miles from their shop. From what I saw your car did great. You ran faster than I did. I still have a long way to go to match the awesomeness of your car. Hope to see you next year.
...also show how my old torque arm broke (it was an older Spohn piece).
I'm interested in seeing that.
I had a front clamshell torque arm mount fail once. That was a direct result of the pinion gear letting go. All in all, very messy.
Any updates? I too, am curious where it broke. I have a spohn tunnel mount torque arm on my '86 IROC. Hasn't let me down yet, but it's something I may have to watch, now that I know it's happened to you.
DR.K.
Installing my torque arm turned into a bit more of a project than I thought it would... as most things do!
First, the failure analysis. My old torque arm was a 2-piece design with one end attaching to the rear axle and the other end bolted the transmission crossmember. The 2 pieces slid into eachother so the arm could shorten and lengthen as the suspension cycled. My torque arm broke right at this joint between the 2 parts of the torque arm when a collar broke off. This torque arm was old, so my guess is it was on it's last legs anyway, and the stress of autocrossing and high RPM shifting was the straw that broke its back. I'm just happy it happened on a closed course and not on the highway where I would have been stranded.
I ordered my new torque arm from UMI. They have 2 options, a longer one that attaches near the transmission and a shorter one that attaches to a dedicated crossmember you can weld in. I chose to go with the longer one that attaches to the transmission crossmember. The issue for me, however, was that my old crossmember used a bolted joint where my new torque arm uses a bushing. So, I started the search for a new crossmember!
There were only 2 options I came across that would accommodate my T56 transmission and a bushing mounted torque arm: One from BMR and the new Hooker LS-swap crossmember made by Holley. I ordered both to give them a try.
I tried the BMR crossmember first since it showed up first. Everything bolted up pretty well, but man does it hang low! It was by far the lowest thing hanging below the car, including the exhaust and subframe connectors. This might be ok for a car with stock springs, but for my car that's lowered 2+ inches I could just see this thing scraping on every driveway and speedbump:
The Hooker crossmember showed up a week later and I noticed right away that it would be far from a bolt on job. This crossmember is made for LS-swapped cars using Hooker's matching engine mounts that move the engine out of the stock position for better space under the hood. My car still has a small block, so the engine is in the stock location. It was clear this thing was going to require some "tweaking" to fit. The good news was that it sat WAY higher up in the chassis and if I could get it to fit the ground clearance would be awesome.
So, I had a decision to make. Keep the BMR crossmember which is an easy installation but hangs down low, or dive into modifying the Hooker one and have great ground clearance if I could get it to work. I chose the hard path!
There were 3 big modification I had to make to fit the Hooker crossmember in my car. The frame holes all lined up great, but I had to modify the mounting holes for the transmission bushing:
Next, the mounting bracket for the torque arm bushing sits really close to the transmission tunnel, so I had to trim back my heat shielding to make space:
Finally, that same bracket for the bushing was hitting against a threaded boss on the tailshaft of the transmission, so I had to trim that back a bit:
After all that, I was able to get it all bolted up in place and am really happy with it. Super sturdy piece and tons of ground clearance:
While I was at it, I also ordered some lower control arms from UMI and their relocation brackets. I had been running some old, non-adjustable Hotchkis ones that came with the car. Without the relocation kit, they were at the incorrect angle with my car sitting at ride height (angling up towards the rear) so I was looking forward to making this upgrade to help with some forward bite. I ordered the control arms with UMI's roto-joints, which are Delrin bushings that provide a super tight feel (zero deflection) without the squeaking you'd just with a rod end. Super easy install compared to the transmission crossmember!
Finally, I got around the installing my racing seat as well. I had bought this seat before the UMI autocross in July but just ran out of time before I could get it installed. The seat is a Cobra Imola and it's FIA certified, which was important to me for safety reasons. I'm using brackets from a company called Planted combined with the side mount brackets from Cobra. The seat is sitting super high right now, so I'll need to do some tweaking in the future. It feels AWESOME though once you're out driving... huge upgrade in driving confidence!
nice update man! yea, that BMR crossmember would have slammed into everything on/in the road. Good call going with the hooker setup. i also have the UMI LCA's with roto joints on one end and poly on the other and they rock, super happy with them. Did you use a regular grease or the clear/thicker poly grease for yours?
Thanks for the update. I'd seen versions of the telescoping torque arm back in the day. Some were equipped with a "radial" bearing so as to permit smoother action. It would appear that the design was abandoned. Probably for the same reason as demonstrated by your failure.
Your result is the same setup as mine. Hooker crossmember for an LS swap (even though I've a Gen 1 SBC) and the UMI torque arm with polyurethane bushing. (There's also a double heim joint version available although I found it tends to transmit a little too much vibration for my taste).
I was advised by Holley that mods to the crossmember will be needed as I'm using it outside of it's intended design. The best thing about it is the abundant clearance it provides for headers and exhaust (for those of us who have long tubes headers).
nice update man! yea, that BMR crossmember would have slammed into everything on/in the road. Good call going with the hooker setup. i also have the UMI LCA's with roto joints on one end and poly on the other and they rock, super happy with them. Did you use a regular grease or the clear/thicker poly grease for yours?
I used the pink Mobil 1 Synthetic grease and ran it by UMI just to be sure and they said it would be OK. This is the same stuff I use for packing wheel bearings.
nice, good thinking to call them. I might grab a tube of that too because the clear poly grease is expensive and if I don't need to use it on certain things, I can use that pink Mobil 1 Synthetic instead !
Been putting some miles on the car since I last posted about a month ago. My goal has been to see what's working and what's not and the things I need to address over the winter.
A couple of big things that have been standing out to me are that the car has a pretty big oil leak, and I need some new seat mounts! I have narrowed down the oil leak to either the back of the intake or the rear main seal. I'm planning on taking the intake manifold off this winter anyway (more on that below) so I will check that first before I pull the transmission. I put a new rear main seal in while I had the engine and transmission out, but it's definitely possible I damaged it while trying to stab the input shaft into the back for the crank. I'm tired of having a puddle on my garage floor every time I park it!
For the seat, I need to find a way to lower it and to get it on adjustable rails. It's just too hard to get out of the car right now which really hinders the car's every day useability. Once I'm in, the seat feels great and fits me well but I just dread the circus act it takes to get out of the car so I'll definitely have to address that.
The big decision I'm working on right now is what to do with the engine computer. The car right now runs well, but there are big "holes" in the rev range where the car will fall on it's face and then pick back up and take off. Again, not a big deal on the track where most of the time the engine is at 4000 rpm+, but it affects how the car feels around town. I really like crisp throttle response and I want the car to take off when I punch it at 2500 rpm. I've gone from a huge 58mm throttle body down to a stock one which helped throttle response a bit but still nowhere near where I'd like it. Right now, I have a stock ECU with a stock chip in the car. The small block in the car has a ton of upgrades including big aluminum heads, a cam, intake, headers... you name it. I don't think the stock ECU can keep up. My 2 options are to dig into burning a new chip for my current ECU or to completely upgrade the engine electronics to something I can tune on the fly. I think I am leaning towards upgrading the whole ECU to something like a Terminator X from Holley. I'm sure I could get the stock ECU to work with a new chip and some tuning, but at the end of the day I will still have an ECU with 30+ year old technology. Yes I will need to re-wire the whole engine bay again with the Holley system, but I think it will be worth it to have a modern ECU I can tune with a laptop.
Back to my intake... if I decide to go with the Holley Terminator X system I think I am also going to swap out my Super Ram intake for a Holley Stealth Ram. Couple of reasons for this, but the main ones are the simplicity of the Stealth Ram over the Super Ram and the other is budget. With the value of Super Rams right now, I am hoping to be able to sell and then pick up a second hand Stealth Ram and a new Terminator X ECU and be about even. That seems like a good trade to me! I think it will also be easier to troubleshoot any tuning issues I have with Holley if I am using both their ECU and their intake.
If anyone has any inputs I'm all ears before I pull the trigger soon!
OK I'm getting into a pretty bad habit of going several months in between updates! That doesn't mean work isn't getting done though!
I pulled the trigger on a Holley Terminator X ECU to replace the stock computer. It's a pricey and involved upgrade, but to me the upgrade in reliability, driveability and tuneability makes its all worth it.
Along with the ECU, I am also going to be upgrading my distributor to their Dual Sync distributor which will be controlled with one of the MSD boxes made specifically for the Holley EFI system. This ignition setup is a bit overkill for my engine, but I am a big advocate for keeping everything together from the same manufacturer. It may cost a bit more at the beginning, but having everything work together and only have one company to call when there is an issue is worth it to me! I also grabbed a set of the analog gauges to replace the stock ones.
I currently have my stock (well, slightly modified) TPI harness out of the car and the intake off. I had spent so much time last winter tucking and trimming my harness to hide it... it sure made it hard to get out!
I also was able to find a used Holley Stealth Ram intake on Ebay and picked it up along with the fuel rails and adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I'll get into a bit more detail in the future as to why I'm replacing my Super Ram with this, but it basically came down to price and ease of installation. The intake is currently off being powder coated black to match the theme under the hood.
My current project is getting my gauges installed. The Holley gauges are super easy to install, with just one wire that daisy chains the gauges together. They run of a CAN signal from the ECU, which is a digital signal and allows them all to run off of the one wire. Each gauge looks for it's unique "code" in the digital signal pulls the data it needs. Pretty cool. I ordered a sheet of ABS plastic off of Amazon that matches the factory grain pretty well. Love the look of these things and can't wait to see them lit up!
I'll be better at posting some more regular updates! Spring is coming so gotta get going on this thing!
oh wow, i really like that gauge project. I have always loved my stock gauge setup, but as I add more and more components to the car, I've started to consider (maybe) one day doing a gauge upgrade. I have yet so see a gauge package that totally sways me into wanting to do the whole dash, but this one is getting close. I am will watch how it all goes for ya. Glad to hear your update too. looks like some good projects you are getting into.
Looks great. Nice update. Lots going on and nice to see you making progress.
I have a bunch of old Autometer Phantom gauges I was planning on using but your setup here seems nicer and easy to hook up.
These are some nice updates! I think you'll be very pleased with the end result. Looking forward to seeing it again at this years UMI Autocross Challenge!
oh wow, i really like that gauge project. I have always loved my stock gauge setup, but as I add more and more components to the car, I've started to consider (maybe) one day doing a gauge upgrade. I have yet so see a gauge package that totally sways me into wanting to do the whole dash, but this one is getting close. I am will watch how it all goes for ya. Glad to hear your update too. looks like some good projects you are getting into.
I like the clean look of the gauges as well, I think they match the interior and don't look too flashy. I particularly like additional gauges I can display on the screen (like oil temperature). They also all have warning lights... not really a big deal for the street or the autocross but super helpful on a 20min road course session when you're not constantly checking gauges.
Originally Posted by obeymybird
The new gauges rock!
Originally Posted by Ed1LE
These are some nice updates! I think you'll be very pleased with the end result. Looking forward to seeing it again at this years UMI Autocross Challenge!
07-01-2020, 12:04 PM
