vortech305

Why did GM give the 89' firebird the turbo huffed 3.8 and not the camaros. Im finally done with my project 305 TPI, and now i want to install the 3.8 turbo motor. I have a good deal on a junked 3.8 turbo intercooled grandnational and everything works fine, including motor,turbo,wastegate,and intercooler. Is there a manual tranny in this world that would bolt up to the 3.8 or am gonna have to go to the boring automatic. I already know what im gonna do to the 3.8 and hp should be in the 600 range.

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92' camaro
New 305 block TPI conversion, Flat top pistons,Bore over .30 Forged parts all around,Edelbrock intake,ported plennum,ported corvette alluminum heads, accel cam,52mm throttle bodie, SLP runners Home aid cold air induction, Air foil,ford SVO 19lb injectors,fuel regulator,cloys timing chain, comp alluminum roller rocker arms and pushrods MSD 8.5 mm wires, bosch plattinum plugs, hypertech cap & rotor and coil, Edelbrock TES headers, free flowing catalytic converter and a 3 inch force II flowmaster exhaust system, and a 3 inch cutout,Zoom multi friction clutch, T-5 tranny,billenstien shocks&struts.
Soon to come!!!
Procharger system 12lbs o boost.
New paint job(hawaiin orchid purple)Cast alluminum ZR1 rims w/ 275 tires.
Favorite quote: "where ever u go, there u are"

Other car;
1971 plymouth Duster
Mods:340,edelbrock victor jr. intake, 650 4 barrel holley, heddman headers,40 series dual flowmasters, cold air intake,4:10 gears, just got a new paint job and cragar rims with 315 tires in the back.
:Yeah its not a chevy but damn how many 71' dusters have u seen in the streets.

MikeDwhoROCZImports

iTrader: (1)

Because it wasn't the Camaro's anniversary...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Because 'Pontiac is Driving Excitement'

new87

They had to make one Firebird faster than the Camaro.

vortech305

Are those the real reasons or are u guys just pulling my chain

MikeDwhoROCZImports

iTrader: (1)

Mine is, the rest are jokes (ehem ehem new87, firehawk?).

The 89 was the 20th anniversary for the Firebird, so they did something special.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Turbo's (or any power adders) work a heck of a lot better with automatics than stick shifts. Unless you power-shift it, you'll lose boost when you shift, and have to spool back up again.

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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.23 @ 107.62 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

vortech305

thanks for the REAl answer, anyway, i agree with the answer of using an auto, i guess cause of turbo lag. Well see if this project works

Justin 87 GTA

iTrader: (3)

TA's have always been better

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SUPERCHARGED 87 GTA: Blk/Gld w/Superam, 355cid Trickflows, forged pistons 9.5:1. Auto 2,600 stall, 3.45 9 bolt disc, Best time & mph (Naturally Aspirated): 13.567 @ 101.900 w/ a poor 60ft. Best mph: 104.3 *This car is 100% NYS emissions legal, w/ all emissions controls!* "If you want to have a fast car, hang out w/ those who do!"
http:// www.community.webtv.net/munks87/JustinsGTApage.com
VORTECH S-TRIM, INSTALLATION IN PROGRESS: 10 & 15 LB> PULLEYS, CUSTOM HKS RACE BYPASS, CUSTOM DUCTING W/ COLD AIR, SWAPPING TO SERPENTINE, & MANY EXTRAS! BEST TIME: 11'S I GUESS. WE'LL SEE IN SPRING!

vortech305

ah NOOOOOOOO. Camaros are far better than firebirds. Guess thats why GM's bringing back the camaro in 2004 and not the firebird.

5.0GTA

actually, it depends on what year your talkin about. ALl the magazines i've read seem to put the '01 WS6 Trans Am (6speed)around the 13.4-13.5 range and the Camaro SS (6speed) around the 13.5-13.7 range. I know these times are crappy for LS-1's, one time I saw a '01 WS6 TA run a 13.1 with just a dynomax muffler. So dont go sayin your camaros are soo much faster than our firebirds, its just that we weigh a little more and that little comment about GM not bringing back the TA was hittin below the belt. the only reason why they arent bringing it back is because the firebird has never really sold as many cars as the camaro.

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1988 Pontiac GTA 5.0 TPI
Mods: K&N Filter, Hypertech Air Foil, Hypertech Perf. Chip, 2.5in Flowmaster Muffler, Catco Hi-flow Cat

Maryland Int. Speedway Bracket Racing Trophy Winner

15.32@88mph 2.077 60-ft.

Kills
94 Probe GT, 95 Mustang GT, 96 Impala SS, 85 Thunderbird 5.0, 95 Accord V6, 98 Integra VTEC, 70 Chevelle Malibu, CRX w/ Turbo and Intercooler (have it on tape to prove it)

[This message has been edited by 5.0GTA (edited May 15, 2001).]

maksik7

Theya ren't bringing back the Birds casue they sold less? As far as I know the Bird sales were segnificantly higher then the Camaro sales.

Also aren't the third-gen T/A's lighter then IROC's and Z28's? Anyways that's what I thought

-Max

-'86 Trans Am WS6
-305 TPI with 700R4
-All stock until I fix all the problems

Stormshadow GTA

Camaros will be back because 40 year old moms like to drive them to get their hair done.I remember i the 70's Camaros only had ***** 350's when pontiac kept churning out the 455SD and the 400.

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1987 Trans AM GTA
305 5SPD
Hypertech airfoil
gutted maf
kn filter
High Flow Cat,
3"Walker pipe
Dynomax Super turbo Muffler
Custom Air Intake.

"Nothing To Fear all you see is my Rear".

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Incorrect on both counts.

Camaros have ALWAYS sold better than Firebirds because the Camaro name is better recognized, and GM has some kind of contract that says the Camaro must sell 2 to 1 over the Firebird.

Formulas might be lighter than the similarly equipped Z28, but the Trans Am is heavier.

vortech305

i thought IROC's were the lightest f-bodies,using alluminum body panels and parts. If u read GM high techs article on Mightly LS1 about 6 issues ago, they ran a stock 00' camaro LS1 into 12.8's. Dont believe me find the magazine and read it for yourself. Try doing that with a firebird

Stormshadow GTA

No stock ls1 f body can do 12.8.maybe with filter and slicks

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1987 Trans AM GTA
305 5SPD
Hypertech airfoil
gutted maf
kn filter
High Flow Cat,
3"Walker pipe
Dynomax Super turbo Muffler
Custom Air Intake.

"Nothing To Fear all you see is my Rear".

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The Firebird has always been the upscale brother of the Camaro. The interiors were more well appointed but the car cost more. Throughout the '70s the Pontiac had the power advantage with the 455SD. In the '80s and '90s they are virtually the same car with the more refined interior appointments being in the Pontiac. Between the Formula and Z28 I think you could toss back and forth until blue in the face about which one was faster. But the Camaro has remained on top in sales and by a wide margin. The Pontiacs have always been love it or hate it when it comes to styling and the Camaros have a much broader appeal. I'm sure there's more to the story but it comes down to sales and not too many people like the aggressive and even outrageous styling of the 4th Gen Firebirds.

vortech305

The camaros puny 302 carbed motors destroyed pontiacs 455 motors. *RIGHT*

91Firecrow305TBI

They are bringing the Camaro back in 2004 & not the Firebird???
That sucks, but is a hell of a lot better than ditching them both. I'd rather drive a 6 cylinder camaro than a Cobra Rustang.
As a Firebird owner, I must say that Firebird or Camaro, it does not matter to me, they are both wonderful cars. Long Live GM Performance!

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Flowmaster 80 series muffler, K&N Open Element cleaner, Subframe Connectors + a lead pedal foot . See my baby @
http://oursportscars.homestead.com/home.html

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Are you being sarcastic or making a point?

Stormshadow GTA

The 455SD was a stomping engine.320hp with something like 490 ft/lbs.that was a stomping engine,the last of the old muscle car era.and that was with exhaust manifoldas not even headers i think.that was a wicked engine

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1987 Trans AM GTA
305 5SPD
Hypertech airfoil
gutted maf
kn filter
High Flow Cat,
3"Walker pipe
Dynomax Super turbo Muffler
Custom Air Intake.

"Nothing To Fear all you see is my Rear".

[This message has been edited by Stormshadow GTA (edited May 17, 2001).]

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

You're pushing this like a Ford vs. Chevy debate. The late model Camaro and Firebird are the same freaking car. Differences in performance will vary from car to car and track to track. Depending on how you trim out the car will have an effect on the total weight.

89ProchargedROC

if you would like i'll photo-copy the article and you can read it. it was a BONE STOCK 1998 Z28 6 SPEED with a professional driver and they were the only ones at the track. best time was a 12.89

they also ran a vette with almost same conditions and went best of 12.66

they also tested one of the defected 1999 cobras too and he managed a 12.99999 with 4.10 gears and nittos.

vortech305

makes it even better it was a 98' camaro.

Matt86Z

I tend to strongly disagree re: the 302.

Ever see a 455SD in a roadrace car? I don't think so. The 302/327 were always the top shelf powerplant in early Fbods. Don't tell me the later smogged-to-hell 455SD's could hang with a 302 at the track, ain't gonna happen.

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Matt86Z
~Check out my Thirdgen~
...This Ain't No Speedway!...

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

The reason they used the 302 on the road courses is because the rules mandated a 305 cubic inch limit. The only reason the DZ302 existed is so that they could use it in road racing. The engines had to be production based with a minimum number of manufactured models.

Also, you need to distinguish in your mind between power potential and what's suitable for vehicle dynamics on a road course. The small block motor is more suitable on a road course. A race prepped 455 has much more potential then a race prepped 302. That applies to mild street worthy engines too.

83 'Bird

Yeah, they had to make the cubic inch limits, and what not, and make enough of them for the class showroom stock rules, but those DZ 302s where awesome little engines. They worked so well, mainly because of the higher redlines they had, due to the crank and rods. can't remember, think a dz 302 was a de-stroked 327? maybe? anyways, destroking a motor opens up a lot of rpm, usually, and makes a good deal of power, because you increase your rod ratio, which makes ya more torque!

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Crank and rods don't determine the powerband. The camshaft is the major contributor. It was a high duration mechanical flat tappet not hardly suitable for street use.

Yes, that's correct. Using the stroke from a 283 Chevy in a 4" bore motor like the 327 yields a 302.

No. The 302 has a standard 4" bore just like the 327 and 350. The rod length is standard too. I think what you meant to say was bore to stroke ratio. Also, a destroked motor will make less torque then the same motor with a longer stroke. For sustained high rpm use it helps to decrease the stroke AND increase the rod length. All the 302 did was decrease stroke which will cause a decrease in Hp and torque potential. Once again, it was dictated by a cubic inch limit... not by a quest for total power. A 350 will be able to spin just as high and put out more power then a 302.

[This message has been edited by QwkTrip (edited May 25, 2001).]

vortech305

what the hell does this have to do with the initial question at top.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That seems to be your own post.... ?

... and that

... and that. You seem to be the one to best answer your own question.

[This message has been edited by QwkTrip (edited May 26, 2001).]

Gta-Paladin

Like someone earlier mentioned .. pontiac is Gm's excitement division.. and that's all there is to it imho.
As for the camaros vs the firebirds
they're the same i've heard firebirds have more hp but it'd just cancel out the extra weight they have added to them with all of the options...
Just an opinoin

thanos
aka
Gta-Paladin

vortech305

Alright u got me there, but i said my Initial question, which is why did GM put the 3.8 turbocharger in the firebirds and not camaros.

Stormshadow GTA

you got the anwser after the first 5 posts vortec.It was Trans Am 20th anniversary.

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1987 Trans AM GTA
305 5SPD
Hypertech airfoil
gutted maf
kn filter
High Flow Cat,
3"Walker pipe
Dynomax Super turbo Muffler
Custom Air Intake.

"Like a wounded duck i will continue to hobble alone"

AlkyIROC

Time to put an end to this topic.