Shagwell

Matt, I happen to have that set of headers which I should probably part with..........lol.


There is no replacement for displacement....except for boost.

AlkyIROC

But boost is displacement depending how you look at it. For every 14.7 PSI of boost (1 bar) you've doubled the size of an engine. A 350 engine with 14.7
PSI of boost theoretically makes the engine the equivalent of 700 CID. If you only use 7 pounds of boost which is more typical for a street car, your 350 becomes a 525 CID

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

You know, this engine failure has really bothered me, I don`t know the specifics or the answers to why it happened BUT I can say this, building a high dollar motor, one were you have everything poured into it, it makes you really think about what your doing before hand (especially when one fails like this as you are building your own) Time to take note and make sure there are no half measures. I asked in a earlier post what the clearances were for the bearings, thinking to myself he didn`t check them or they were too tight and he went ahead with it anyway...I`m sure that's not the case now, at least I hope.
Since just starting on the 548 I`m building, I`m finding all the pitfalls of doing it yourself and have to admit that due care and caution have been left out of the picture in the past but I`ve for the most part have been lucky, I mean you do what makes you feel "comfortable" and confident in your build. Well with BIG dollars into a build there never is any comfort or confidence unless you pay for it, you see the thing that always gets ya is the thing you never thought about or of before it was too late.
I was browsing the web for information and ran across this thread at speedtalk, at first I thought Stephen had made a thread over there but soon realized that this was not his engine but one that was very similar and although it a long thread it`s well worth the the read spare one posters comments and opinions but even he has some good info to share. Take a look...I`d be interested in finding the root cause to the failure in ALKYROC`s car, I have mentioned this to another friend who also runs a 582 and so far he`s been good with no problems like the two here...

"582 Violent disassembly"

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27507

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I assembled mine and was just hoping that it just made made it past the dyno. I had a few sleepless night wondering what if..... This was a little more of an exotic build than previous engines. But using the correct tools sure helped out. I hand sanded the backsides all my bearings to make sure the clearences where exactly where I wanted them. I had about 5 hours total in just that procedure. Call me crazy, but all the torqued bolts where checked over 5 times just in case. I have read too many stories about rod bolts being left loose.... A broken rod can take out the whole engine is some cases and that would have made me sick.

AlkyIROC

I've seen that speedtalk thread already and it does look very similar to mine.

Engine is still sitting in the car. I'm still in no big rush to yank it out. I was thinking about pulling the transmission last weekend but the girlfriend got me sidetracked. I priced out a whole bunch of stuff a few weeks ago. Including the price of a new block, I could make a new shortblock for about $8000. That was a few weeks ago. The exchange rate has gotten bad since then and that $8000 is getting a lot closer to $9000 although I haven't gotten a new quote yet. When I got the quote, I was amazed that the price of a new Dart Big M block was the same price in Canadian currency as what Jegs and Summit are selling it in US currency. There would be a little bit of shipping added to the price but it's a lot more reasonable than when I bought my last block many years ago when the exchange rate was really bad.

There's a couple of local engines for sale. Both are complete, ready to run. One is a 396 with a 671 blower sitting on top of it. It's more of a street engine and was pulled from a 65 GMC truck in favor of an LS engine. Only $7500. It would look real nice in my 454SS truck other than it's only a 396.

The other is a 598 freshened up race engine that makes around the same amount of power as my 582 did. Carb to pan for $15,000. It pushed a 1900 pound vehicle (probably a dragster or altered) into the 7.7's. The downside of this engine is that it's a talldeck and I would need a new set of headers. Owner is selling it because he needs something to get him into the 7.4's.

I still want something making 1000-1200 HP without using a power adder even if I have to build a new engine. Other than the brand names of some parts, I'll probably rebuild to what I had. Same pistons, same camshaft etc.

AlkyIROC

Correction. Just found out the 598 is in a regular 9.8" deck block! Now that's taking it to the limit. The 4.600" bore isn't bad but the 4.500" stroke has me wondering about rod length and where the wrist pin is located in the piston.

Merlin block
Lunati crank
Oliver rods
Pro Topline 360 heads
14.5:1 compression
Rupert 1050 alcohol carb
Bullet cam .799/.775 288/303 @ .050

Lets see, yank the intake and carb and install my tunnel ram and dual toilets and make it go even faster.

Shagwell

great read right there, I'm siding w/ oil starvation. - Discoloring of the rod says it saw a lot of heat, had the bolts broke first it would have come off before having had the chance to see that much heat all the way around the throw.

He'll know more when he gets it down, but I think Alky may find the same.

AlkyIROC

When I broke the engine earlier this year it was a definite rod bolt failure. I heard it break as I was crossing the finish line. I've had the crank repaired but it's the wrong stroke for the 582. I'm hoping to get the engine out and finish stripping it down this weekend before I can start ordering parts.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Re read this thread and these things in combination are what lead to this
Shagwell mentioned he equalizes his upper and lower half with a set of hoses from head to pan. I think anyone running a vac pump should do this, a -12 hose from the fuel pump boss to a valve cover would do and is easily installed. GZ motorsports has this on their site about vac pump use..

"Net vacuum in a wet sump drag race engine should not exceed 15" hg max at maximum rpm. Many engine builders recommend 10" to 12". Dry sump engines can be run at 20" hg or more net. Check vacuum on the dyno or at the track. Install a vacuum control valve if you exceed recommended vacuum level."

"Low oil pressure can be caused by inadequate oil return holes to the pan. This causes higher vacuum in the upper part of the engine than in the pan, which will reduce oil pressure as oil is "pushed" by the pressure differential. Oil held up in the upper portion of the engine due to small oil returns will cause oil starvation. Solve this by adding an air line from valve cover to lower portion of engine."


One thought I have is when the engine crankcase is under say 18 inches of vacuum, is the pressure "reading" for your oil pressure affected at all?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

if all the oil was staying in his valve covers, what made the rockers seize up?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i think this guy is right.....

some are blaming detonation, which is possible, but i tend to think not since this guy was running alcohol with 36 degrees of timing.

LOL at the engineer guy earlier in the thread blaming the H beam rods. after that he blamed sweat on the rod bolts. my experience with engineers is that they overlook the obvious and then completely over complicate everything. he blamed this guys h beams when i know there has been people WAAAY faster with the crappy eagles.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

Yea tight is not right when it comes to rods, I`m buying a X set right now for my 548 because my rods are all at .0021-.0025, I want .003. Now about the rockers, I`d like to know which ones seized , intakes is my guess at least majority of them. He did say "a few" and also that they were 11 years old, not saying thats why because I dont know but it prety safe to say with a main bearing hanging out the front of the block that there was a severe lack of oil / pressure, that 20w50 is like glue when its cold so if the engine didnt get alot of warm up time, most of the oil was probably wrapped around the crank and rods in suspension or windage, I dont know what he runs to control windage if anything?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

when i think of 20w50/bearing clearances, i think of trying to slurp a mcdonalds milkshake.... there might be 80psi of vacuum on that straw, but the milkshake is slooooooooowwwwwwly making its way up to the top. its almost like the straw is half the diameter it needs to be. however, that straw size works great for soda.

its pretty important to feed/coat each of the bearings with enough oil. if the oil flows down each galley in the block and hits a dead end at each bearing, you will burn some stuff up.

Shagwell

....we run straight 70w in the blower motor, I've even put a qrt or two of 80w90 gear oil in it when in a pinch at the track.....lol. Bearing clearances in it are loose though, and we spin that thing to the moon.



The seized rockers are definitely something I would be closely looking over in this instance. I do fell the bottom end starved for oil, be it that it didn't have enough left in the pan/pump and/or the clearances were a bit too tight and thus starved the surfaces. - As greeze eluded, the intake rockers are more above the exhausts than one might think. 2 qrts per VC could pretty well keep the exh rockers submerged, but the intakes would still be high & dry.

The un-known crank case vaccum along with the increased windage of the bigger stroke may have played a big roll in this.