midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

So I'm looking into getting a start in autocross. I got my form printed and I'm going to a club meeting/ dinner this Tuesday. My car is a 1984 WS6 car and it's in pretty good shape with about 80k miles... I change the oil with synthetic every 3k miles, I replaced all 4 end links with poly units and installed a wonderbar and I had the centerlink and idler arm replaced last year and the steering box is getting looked at and adjusted as I write this. However, it's still sitting on old Monroe struts the original owner had installed and the ball joints and upper strut mounts are all factory pieces, and it still has the stock 15" rollers with 1 year old 235 series BFG Radial T/A's installed.

My buddy and my dad are both against autocrossing and told me I'll tear up the car and told me it'd run me broke. Do those of you that autocross have that many more repairs as a result of autocrossing over normal street driving?

And my other question: I make about $300-500 every two weeks (mcjobbing it and taking classes) and save half in case I need a major repair, so I have about $100 a week to play with. Any ideas on good affordable mods for getting started out? Everyone seems to recommend Konis or 16" wheels + tires and I really would like that, but both are equal to about two months worth of pay and I was wondering if they're really worth it and if so, which one first?

Thanks for any help guys.

slow305

iTrader: (2)

When people bring up reliability (or lack thereof) and autocross, I point out that my girlfriend has over 400,000 miles on her '96 1LE, and was autocrossed from when she bought it new until she semi-retired it a few years ago. I don't know, it maybe had 20 autocrosses a year for about eight solid years, many times with co-drivers. The only major thing that happened was that part of the subframe cracked about four years ago during an autocross run but that was about it as far as major stuff that could be attributed to wear-and-tear from autocross. But sheesh, that was probably around the 375K mark!

Clutch was changed maybe once every other season? Changed the differential every year -- OEM-replacement Auburns, they never broke, just wore out over time. It still has the original engine and transmission. Head gaskets were replaced once about five years ago because they were leaking. The front upper and lower control arms have been replaced mainly because the bushings get worn out and it's easier to just buy new arms from GM (again, stock-classed car, so couldn't use anything other than OEM replacement stuff).

As far as mods, it's cheaper of course to just stay in Stock. But as far as order of necessary mods, I'd go with:

1) Shocks
2) Wheels and tires

What size front sway bar did the WS6 have that year? A 35mm or 36mm bar would be perfect. Shocks, tires and the front sway bar are all legal to change in SCCA's Stock classes. Wheels must be OEM width and diameter.

Beyond those, you start to get into different classes where one simple mod such as a cam would put you into really fast class (such as changing the cam would put you all the way up into Street Modified or C Prepared, if going by SCCA rules). 16" wheels would also bump you up a class.

I'd recommend just doing shocks with a good set of street tires and just leave it at that for awhile while you get more seat time and learn more. Then start looking at what mods as they pertain to the other classes, such as Street Touring (STX since you have a 305) and Street Prepared (ESP).

Pat

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Wow that's impressive that the car has lasted that long! That definitely answers the reliability question haha.

The car has the 34mm front/ 23mm rear bar combo... would a 35 or 36 still be an improvement or would that cause it to push too much?

And there are really only a couple of decent performance tires available in sizes close to the OEM recommended one... so could I grab up an extra set of 15" wheels to mount non-oem sized tires on strictly for racing without going up a class? Would I have to buy another set exactly like the ones I have, or could I buy aftermarket wheels?

Thanks,
Joe

slow305

iTrader: (2)

I'm guessing that the car is pretty tailhappy as it is now? Larger front bars have always made cars seem more neutral to me. (My current setup is 34/18, but that might be apples to oranges in comparison because my car is way beyond stock. )

For stock class, you can use any size wheel as long as it has the same width and diameter as the OEM wheel, and within +/- a quarter inch of the OEM offset. It opens up possibilities for lighter wheels BUT with the progressive upsizing of wheels/tires nowadays, finding a good combination might be difficult. With the lack of good, wide 15" street tires, I'd lean toward some cheap 16" or 17" wheels and see what kind of 245-265 wide street tires you could find and run in Street Touring. Honestly, unless you're some kind of wunderkind, you're not going to be competitive in either Stock or Street Touring right away, but running in Street Touring would at least level the playing field somewhat.

Ideal combination: 275 Hoosier A6s on 15" rims (not very streetable, I like the learning curve of finding the limits on regular street tires then moving up the line). Probably a more realistic combo: Later (cheap) 3rd gen 16X8 wheels with 245 or 265 street tires.

Pat

stevo874

If it's your first time, just run it the way it is.
The best modification a car can get is tightening the loose nut behind the wheel. ie, the driver.
If you decide to continue auto crossing and want to start to get serious, read up on the rule book here , and see which class would suit you best.

Of course maintenance will go up (tires mainly), but as long as it's maintained well it should last a real long time.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

What stevo said. Your car can do way more than you'll be able to make it do for some time. Just maintain it and learn to drive better.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the tips guys... Well I ended up going and this is my run:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT_I38gJ3xw
It's the only one we taped and incidentally the fastest... I ran a 62.5, whereas everyone else ran in the mid to low 50's with the fastest time being in the mid 40's from a purpose built race car on slicks and a seasoned driver who's been to nationals. I indexed some of the times and was within ten seconds of most of the times... is that good for my first time out?

Either way it was a blast and I'm definitely going back and knocking those ten seconds off.

GICATA

That's what matters most!


Thanks for putting up the post and video....I am also interested in AX and have been trying to learn more about it (thanks for the rules link stevo) as there are a couple a year here and several throughout the state a year.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

It's a blast! If you can afford to do it you definitely should! The track was warm and dry this time so I scarred my tires up pretty bad and my check engine light flashed on between runs (ended up just being the O2 sensor or TPS, hasn't been on since though ) but it still made me rethink making this a regular thing, at least until I get a better job or graduate. Still, I've learned more in two days of autocrossing than I've learned in three years on the street and it's been a ton of fun.

I see your car's a WS6 car... these cars go like they're on rails. All of the experienced Miata guys were really impressed that such a long car could stay as composed as their cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beCRFs2YC14 This was one of my better runs at the last day I went to... I'm sure a better driver could've milked a few more seconds out of it but I felt like the car didn't have much more left in it, at least on those tires.

But yeah, I can't praise these cars enough or speak highly enough of autocrossing. You just have to go do it, at least once anyway.

gbeaird

iTrader: (1)

While autocrossing will many times reveal weaknesses, and problems with deferred/lack of maintenance, it's nowhere near as rough on a vehicle as drag racing or HPDEs/road racing. Many years ago I used to autocross 2nd Gen Firebirds, and most of the competition usually drove their cars to and from the event.

When we got back into the sport about 15 years ago, my wife and I each drove our cars to and from the events. We were competing in the Street Prepared classes. Most competitors still drive to and from events. We have a dedicated race car now that we run in C Prepared. We trailer it because we run slicks, and, well, it's not inspected or tagged. We've had it for about 10 years, now, and we've broken one push rod, and one rocker in once-a-month year-around events.

Before that, we ran a 1986 SVO in G Stock. It was a 12-year old car then, with many original parts. In 3 years of the same type of competition, we blew one clutch, which was OEM with either 86,000 or 186,000 miles, and popped a head gasket when we let someone else drive the car. That's it. Heck, we even have a 1992 B4C 1LE Camaro that's been autocrossed by several people for years, and NEVER failed to drive away from an event under it's own power.

Otherwise, the expense of autocross is in tires, which are usually a very soft compound that last only a few tens of runs, and normal maintenance items. Keep the oil changed and the belts and hoses looked after, and you should expect many years of fun in the sport. Additionally, autocross is just about THE BEST place to learn car control at the limit of traction with very little hazard to you, your car, or others. You can't get that kind of training anywhere for less. You certainly can't get that training safely on the street. I highly recommend anyone with a kid learning to drive to bring their kid and their daily-driver to events, so the kid can learn car control. It's about the best way to learn.

As others have said, just keep the car maintained in good condition and spend your hard-earned cash on seat time. Take a school, if you can, they are the sure way to trim time off your runs. If your region allows it, get an instructor to ride with you to critique your runs, and see if you can ride with others who have experience. Most of your competitors will be happy to share tips with you.

Most of all, keep an open mind, and have fun!