87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hi guys. I did a track day this summer and I'm hooked. I managed to not kill the motor but I'm worried about oil control. How good are these cars stock under hard cornering? I would imagine not very good. Car has stock oil pan and standard pump. I am planning to add an oil cooler. The problem with the Canton oil pans is I believe they are a fair bit deeper than the stock pan. The car is pretty low and I don't think I am comfortable with a lower pan for street driving. Any ideas?

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Actually, a sbc isn't that bad as far as oiling issues go. LS1's on the other hand...

That being said, there are a few long high g corners that can be of slight concern. (T1 @ TWS and T2 at MSR-H for me). I'd be more concerned with a 383 than a stockish motor. I'd recommend staying away from high pressure oil pumps. High volume can be ok.

According to Canton's site, this pan is 7 1/2" deep
http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/...on&key=15-244T

What is a stock pan? 7"? I don't think there is much if any difference in depth. My Canton doesn't hang any lower than the engin crossmember.

You can also look into an Accusump if you don't want to go with the aftermarket pan. The issue there is finding a good place to mount it.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

That is good to hear.

The car runs about 13.0 in the quarter if that gives you a decent idea of performance. It easily gets up over 130 on my home track Pacific Raceway and there are two long left sweepers that make me nervous. The first is about a 70 mph 180 and the second is a 55mph 180. All stock steering, suspension, and braking parts were just upgraded last winter. I plan to start using dot approved "slicks" next summer. The extra grip of the tires also has me worried, haha.

I figured the stock pan was about 6" but i'll crawl under the car and measure it this evening. I would love to go with the Canton pan if I can make it work. I have considered an Accusump however it seems like its more trouble than its worth for a 95% street car.

AlkyIROC

I use an oil accumulator and it's money well spent. My oiling issues are at the end of the track while trying to slow down quickly. Even with a sump baffle, the oil in the top end of the engine has a hard time getting into the sump when g-forces are pushing it to the front of the engine.

In oval or road course racing, the g-forces are even greater as the oil is being forced everywhere except into the sump. Even one of the smaller accumulators will provide enough oil control for what you're doing.

They're simple to use. Mount the tank somewhere. As long as the outlet is pointed level or downward, it doesn't matter where you put it. You only need access at the top to charge it with air. Plumb it into the oil galleries after the filter. There's usually a 1/2" pipe plug in the oil filter housing area that works well.

I use an electric valve but you can open and close it with a ball valve or leave it open all the time. Using some sort of valve, you can fill the accumulator, shut off the valve then recheck the oil level in the pan. Using an electric valve, you can also use the oil in the accumulator as a prelube to get oil to the bearings before cranking over the engine.

With the valve open and the engine off, charge the back side with some air pressure 10-15 PSI is enough. This will push the piston inside the cylinder down to the bottom. Now fire up the engine. The oil will fill the accumulator and push the piston back up to the top. The pressure on the backside is less than the oil pressure. If oil pressure drops below 10-15 PSI, the air pressure will be higher than the oil pressure and push the oil from the accumulator back into the engine.

Oval track racers have said that they constantly see oil pressure fluctuations as they go in and out of corners. With an accumulator, the fluctuations disappear as oil is constantly moved in and out of the accumulator.

The whole idea of using an accumulator is to keep a pressurized oil source to the oil galleries for a brief period while the pump pickup screen has no oil around it. Increasing the amount of oil in the pan with a deep sump or kickout pan still doesn't mean the pickup won't be sucking air as the oil is being forced up the walls of the pan/block.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Since I don't have one, I'm going to butcher what I think someone told me about the accusumps... Some people before they start their engine, prime the oiling system of the engine with the oil in the accusump. That way their is immediate oil pressure when it does start. I guess this would help with built engines with tight tolerances? Have you heard about or do this Alky?

Another note about the pan, at least with a pan like the Canton, not only is it more volume (6qt vs 5qt stock), but it has pimpy trap doors that help keep the oil from flowing away from the pickup.

I agree that the Accusump is probably the better overall solution. It just comes down to what you prefer. One is active, one is passive. I like the KISS method and see the pan as simpler, less to go wrong (not that I've EVER heard of a Accusump failing).

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I measured the stock pan. It is indeed 7.5", good call GMan. I will definitely pick up the canton pan. Which dipstick do you use?

I have also heard the Accusump can be setup to prime the engine before starting. Nice feature I suppose. It seems like the automatic electronic valve is the only way to go on a primary street car so the valve doesn't discharge when the engine is turned off. Just one more thing to mount and wire up. I'll look around and see if I can find a place to put one. I'd like to avoid the accusump if possible but I guess you never really know if you need it until its to late.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

I used the stock dipstick.

AlkyIROC

All accumulators can be used to prime the engine. Mine is a Moroso accumulator.

As I already said, it depends on what type of valve you use. With a simple ball valve, it's difficult because you don't normally have the accumulator mounted beside your seat where you can reach it. Using an electric valve, you provide power to open the valve before you crank the engine over. It takes around 15-20 seconds to empty my 3 quart accumulator. Within seconds of opening the valve, the pressure gauge starts to climb.

I got tired of having the valve on a separate switch especially when I forgot to turn it on once. Now the valve is open as soon as the ignition is turned on. I have a master power switch that will power up everything except the ignition. I can turn on the master power then push the start button to get the engine cranking before hitting the ignition switch. If I want to prime the engine, turn on the master and ignition, wait for oil pressure, turn off the ignition, hit the start button until the engine is cranking then turn the ignition back on.

Once the engine is warm it's just turn on the master and ignition and hit the start button. The engine fires right up. A cold engine on alcohol just takes a bit longer. I have to use a gas primer to get it going.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Your system works well on a drag car. I'm trying desperately to keep a sense of refinement in this car. I know, dumb, right. I hate having to goof around with buttons. I had the classic manual fan turn on switch for a while and it drove me bananas. Now I have a proper fan controller and never have to worry about it.

I know the accusumps have a way to set it up so there are no extra buttons. I think it would work as follows. Turn key to run, accusump electric valve opens, once you hear it emptying, start the engine. With the engine running the electric valve remains open so accusump works as normal. When you turn the engine off, the accusump closes to keep oil for the next restart.

Basically I want to be able to operate this car just like a normal car but still have it be a reliable track performer. Turn the key and drive.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Hey GMan 3MT,

Did you have any issues running oil cooler lines with the big kickout in front of the oil filter?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I got the pan installed. It fits really well. It is no deeper than the stock pan and fits really well with my SLP y-pipe, Powermaster mini starter, and the T-56 trans. It also looks like it will be no issue to install oil cooler lines along the drivers side of the block. The kick outs are low enough to run the lines above.

Also the stock dipstick seems to work fine.

Thanks everyone for all the info.

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Sorry I didn't see this earlier. Yes, when I was running my 305 TPI with this pan, I used the factory oil cooler with no issues. Left it out when I dropped in the LT1 (No good reason, I just couldn't be bothered with it).

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Interesting, you were racing your car with the factory oil cooler? I would not of thought it would be that effective. Have you ever measured your oil temps?

I am planning on installing an aftermarket oil cooler and have created another thread discussing options for the cooler. Do you think you could drop in and let me know what you think?

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

Came across this thread searching info on road race pans and looking at going with this pan as well. 87350IROC, our cars are very similar, down to the color it seems! I also have the SLP headers & a T56 but stock starter. My question is, were you able to drop the eng/trans in together? Was there any interference with the pan clearing the engine cradle when installing the engine?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

I installed the pan with the engine already installed but the trans out. I also have a Spohn tubular k-member which makes pan changes much easier, no need to lift the engine. I have also installed this pan with the T-56 installed and its doable but much more fiddly.

I know a lot of people install the engine and trans as one piece but I have never done it that way. I have always taken them out separately. With the stock k-member it probably would be a little harder to drop as a unit because the pan kickout is so much larger. I bet its doable though. With a tubular k-member I bet it would be easy.

Finally, the front 2/3 of the pan are deeper than stock. As a result I could not install the canton pan without dropping the steering center link. Once the pan is installed, everything fits fine. I guess you will not run into this issue as you are installing the pan out of the car.

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

That's what I suspected...may be easiest to install seperatly anyway, that's how I did it w/ my Skylark as I had an 8qt Canton Roadrace pan in that and it wasn't close to clearing the engine cradle!

AlkyIROC

This is the ultimate in road racing oil control. An engine is put on a 2 axis dyno to simulate the g-forces of a road course.

Porsche testing one of their engines.

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/91...rburgring.html

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Very cool find Alky

Ed1LE

iTrader: (39)

Well (reviving an old thread once again) I just scored the Canton 15-244T pan on ebay, new but installed on a display engine for $100 shipped. Couldn't pass up that deal! We'll see how it all installs soon.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I've never heard of this issue. My 242T canton pan fit fine. I do not run an accusump and have NEVER had an oiling issue on any sweeper with big slicks mounted. The 242T pan is the larger 7qt pan with 5 trap doors, but it does not fit with a stock routed exhaust.

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

It fits fine. Just have to drop the center link to install it. If you don't have to drop the centerlink I would guess that is because you may run poly motor mounts. When I had poly motor mounts the engine sat almost an inch higher. In that case I probably could have installed the pan without dropping the center link.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I misunderstood your post. You meant dropping it to install the pan with the engine in the car. I thought you meant that the pan actually hit the center link when it was in the car bolted to the engine.