mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

lol, i'm gonna hold off...nice to know i gotta couple offers though i don't have the safety equipment to go much faster than i am now...i know a 150 shot would put me below 10.00

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

once you do it once......you'll want it again........then you'll want more......and more


mmmmmhmmmmmmmm just like that GNR song lol

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

back in the 90s a low 12 sec 3500LB street car was fast on EFI
now its a stock thing. i think we are at the point of low 10 sec street cars are the norm and cool

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

I do remember when folks were happy in 2002 or so when their ride could beat a new Z06, there were happy as hell...then they got raped by a cammed package car and changed their mind.

dozerjoe

i had a 12 second daily driver 79 vette that was a blast.it went 12.65 @ 115 n/a had power everything and bfgoodrich radial t/a tires (not drag radials) all the way around.i always got compliments on the car.it idled fairly well and had power everything and was quiet.we drove to the track made passes and drove home every friday night.was never afraid to get in and just drive that car.on the other hand if it had slicks and very loud exhaust it would be considered a turd.we just laugh when we see people trailering 12 and 11 second cars to the track.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i don't think laughing at 12 and 11 second trailer vehicles is totally cool. i don't care what it runs, there's always a possibility of parts failure. some of these guys live hours from the track. i have trailered my car since it was a bottom 12 second car, just cause i don't want to have to foot a tow bill, or walk home.

dozerjoe

i see your point. i only live 20 minutes from the track. everytime ive broke something its been on a street.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

i like driving to the track, but if i'm going a few hours away, it'll be trailered....that's a crappy day when you have to pay that tow bill lol

jbenge

iTrader: (2)

I think 12's are still respectable for a street car although its not as fast as it once was. No matter how fast your car is there is always something faster out there. 12's is fast enough to win some races on the street legal nights at the track. You can do it n/a easily and reliably and drive it anywhere. I probably had more fun with mine when it ran low 12's just because it never broke and I could drive it anywhere. I would drive to car shows and races all over he place.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Totally agree, now that i have a trailer, why the hell not use it?

paul_huryk

The real question is that do most 12 second cars actually run 12's on the street, or do you have to swap out sticky tires, put race gas, and take weight out? Probably not, unless it is setup that way, or is a new car that runs that fast from the factory with a tool at the wheel...

I have a friend with a fast (10.80) all motor LS1 corvette that only runs 11.9 or 12.0 in street trim, a full second slower than it does in track trim.

And yes, 12's are respectable, even in today's world of ZR1 Corvettes and 911 Turbos that can run high 10's stock. Just don't expect to beat that type of car...

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

if you need race fuel to go 12's, that's laughable.


a deep 12 second car with decent suspension should still run high 12's on street tires.

bowtiedude

Ok I am going to weigh in with an opinion that might not be very popular.



Yes a 12 sec car will garner my respect. I do get a little annoyed with the Sub-10 second crowd acting like anything slower is unimportant.

In my local group of friends we have cars running times ranging from the 8's to the 18's and we all respect each others rides. I will not scoff at something because it isn't "running the numbers". I will in most cases offer assistance possibly a few hand-me-down parts, tuning, or maybe even just a few tips. While a bit of good nature d ribbing is expected I also see some of the down your nose attitude on here. (not naming anyone in particular)


Remember It's not how fast you make it ........ its how you make it fast (and why).

faster1k

agreed.. changing rpm's and loads, and somewhat semi hard decels create vacuum and remove alot of the fresh debris.. but it also depends on if your building a race (loose) motor or in street/strip (tight clearance) motors require different breakins.. id say 500miles is adequit..

And as far as 12s being respectable.. i saw an old caravan run 14.00s and that was respectible as H3LL.. just depends on the car.. in a third gen its respectible.. fastest 3rd gen street car, not trailored ive seen was turbo'd running low 12s

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Ouch...

not many thirdgens in your area or are you at elevation? Thats not really that impressive IMO.

faster1k

As far as street tire "TPI based motor" and being a car you could call a daily driver.. Like, in comparison to newer model muscle cars being fairly stock running 12s.. shish i was happy with 14.2s in my gta with full exhaust,and removed air box only lol i thought it was respectable

faster1k

Most pump Race fuel adds pretty much 0 hp, it just more less a safety thing for your motor, and it may run cooler.. its just for high compression, or heavy power adders.. Example: Stock internal LS1 with 90/93 would probably lose 5-10 hp going to "race fuel" unless you go oxygenated.. such as mr12 or U4.4

KWIK84

iTrader: (5)

I think I almost have more fun in my low 12 second bracket car than I did when I was running a S/C car.

Yes, I would like it to be faster, and will keep working to make is so, I'm not going to say what is and isn't repsectable. The question is, do you have fun with it? If so, who cares what it runs.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

For a street car that can run 93 or whatever pump fuel, i have only seen a car gain from race fuel if it wad 87 in it and then the higher octane was added, then the average octane comes up and the computer throws more timing at the motor.

Otherwise, i have seen allot of cars gain nothing with race fuel, but as you mention, for any type of power adder it helps with detonation.

bdiroc

12's are still respectable in columbus ohio for a street tire class. new camaro's running mid 13's with drag radials stock, also I raced many 1998+ ls1 TA's and camaro's in the last 8+ years in street class and they all run 13's at our poor prepped track and bad air. and yes they all had atleast nitto's on them.

my thought is if its still tune port or tbi and running 12's N/A thats really good, you are taking a high 14 to mid 15 second car and knocking 2 to 3 seconds of the 1/4 and still a daily driver

if it is a carbed,tubbed and gutted car running 12's, something must be wrong with it! unless your in horrible air

met someone with 350 tbi camaro running mid 13's a couple years ago at the track I was impressed, it was a daily driver.

my camaro started as a 305 tpi with peanut cam back in 2002 ran consistant 14.9's with drag radials and lots of bolt on's

my other 350 tpi iroc with slp runners 1.6 rr and full exhuast ran 14.0's, 2 years ago (sold)

now my first camaro that had the 305 replaced with 355 tpi aftermarket is running 13.0's. car is lots of fun and runs times right with my buddy's charger srt8 and other friends supercharged 2004 mustang that cost a ton more than my poor camaro and I still get better gas mileage

yea my cars not a race car but I knocked around 2.5 seconds of my stock 1/4 time and kept it N/A. but thats just my thoughts

and orr not many daily driver quick 3rd gens here either , most are all tubbed, gutted and carbed running in big dawg class or pro class.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If you tune for the race fuel you should see power gains. Delay detonation and you can throw more advance into it which could make more power on some motors. Most would pick up. Higher compression stuff really needs "race" fuel which is just higher octane fuel to run because detonation is more prone with lower octanes.

I know a guy with a 600whp E85 fueled heads/cam LSx motor. He picked up nearly 20whp just by switching fuels. Most similar combos arent even close to that power on 92/93 octane.

all dependson your definition of streetable. One guy has a 9.0x second nitrous sbc thirdgen that he calls streetable with a .800" lift cam from what he mentioned... i dont think so but its whatever. Now my other friend on this board has a nitrous sbc with T56 tranny...runs 9.8's so far on 175 shot....drove 5 hours to home from the track getting 20mpg or so..... thats as streetable as it gets
I PRAY my car can do the same. I want it low 9's capable on pump and drive just about anywhere...limited street definately not daily driver but can go on a long drive power tour type thing. I'm just not there yet...

White'89

iTrader: (8)

To be honest I never really cared for how fast you are at the track. If you don't have the fastest time in history nobody is really surprised. I just get a kick out of strange and unusual swaps running good numbers. Like a chevy luv truck with a 2jz supra motor running N/A in the 10's.

However it would be neat to see what an NHRA nitro funny car could run if they weren't severely detuned and restricted.

bdiroc

sounds like he has a good combo. and your car has always impressed me even back when you had the 350. Ive had a NOS kit for my car since 2001 but I have never ran it, dont know why but I always want to see what it will run N/A, I had a friend at track back in 2002 running stock 305 tpi with NOS and jacobs controller running mid 12's, it ran times I would have loved to run when I had my 305 ,but for some reason I feel like its cheating if im not running N/A. some day I will actually run my NOS kit it and I will love it im sure but until then N/A for me.

faster1k

you guys should try VP u4.4(102) straight or mixed.. and lower compression motors will pick up est. 15-20 by going to VP mr12(94 i beleive) which both are oxygenated but pricey.. we run them in our bikes and have sold to people with cars and nitrous

faster1k

yeah lower the octane, the better as long as you feel safe.. not exactly the same; but my bike is 15:1 compression and i run the 94 (mr12) with a perfect straight A/F curve at 13.8:1 af ratio

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

the oxygenated fuels are touchy to tune right with a moderate to wild combo, and are extremely pricey, not really an option for most street car guys. they're also very caustic, and some of them can give you a chemical burn if they get on your skin...some nasty stuff there...

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

I think 12s are respectable for modern stock cars.. but for anyone with a modded car they are slow.

I personally feel that if imports are running 12s then anything with an sbc should be running 11s or better. There is really no excuse for being beaten by a honda, nissan, bmw, etc in a drag race. To me that is the most embarrassing thing about TGO, people that are proud of their 13 and 12 sec cars, ok with the fact that some WRX could whoop them. If its not going to be fast in a straight line you better be able to out corner and out brake the import competition by a wide margin.

To me, your 11 second car should look like a street car, be QUIET, and be able to drive to the track or daily if needed.

I'm embarrassed and amused by the American car guys at the track with things sticking up out of the hood, 200 decibel open exhausts, etc... that get whooped by me in my completely quiet and full interior turbo buick. At 11.2@118 (with 55% torque converter slippage) its just quick enough to put away most "street" competition, just barely, that is until I run up against well sorted forced induction LS1s.

Once you discover forced induction there is no reason your sbc shouldn't be running this quick or faster.. and I'm talking about basically stock long blocks. My stock long block 3.8V6 ran the same time as above with a good trans. No reason an sbc cant do that or even a whole lot better. The parts in a thirdgen sbc are actually better than an LC2

Of course this is all just drag racing related. I'm actually mid build on a time attack machine with a stock engine just so I can rub it in that I whooped them on cornering ability only.

z28freak84

i reckon Pablo said it all huh?

TransAm12sec

I still like the way my screen name flows.

Maybe I'll wait 15 years then change it to TransAm10sec.

TransAm9sec
TransAm8sec

Maybe not.

Slash

for a street car and DD i still think 12sec is respectable. Its quick to beat most people on the road and show off. But then its also decent at the track when you want to go and have some fun.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Man why would you have/want 55% tc slippage?? If you're going to dog on 12/13 sec 80s cars, at least compare apples to apples. Those imports you're refering to are forced induction, AWD, 1000lb lighter, and 20 years newer. How fast you want to go is heavily dependent on how much money you have invested in your car. I don't understand laughing at the guy who spent $3k on his 14 second street car. Not everyone has the funding to build the perfect street setup. Until then, they just make do with what they have.

As for 12 second cars being fast, in my opinion if you can run 12s on the street you're still pretty fast. Even a low 13s street car can beat most other cars in a stoplight to stoplight race. Half the people driving fast cars on the street don't know how to drive them right anyways. My camaro is my daily driver. I take it everywhere, on 100+ mile trips regularly. I don't beat everyone I line up with on the street, but I bet I win 9 out of 10 races with it.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Most setups today with bolt ons have the possibility to run 12s. For me it is but then again I bearly have a year in this lifestyle.

b1lk1

You live in a dream world. Some of us have to live in reality. I have an old car, a tiny budget and not alot of time to spend on it. I have a wife and kids. I don't have a great job, but it is good enough. I have a nice house in a nice neigborhood and my kids a re taken care of. My car comes last in line when it comes to getting money.

Take off your turbo and then come in here talking so much crap. Forced induction is laughable if you ask me. Take the turbo off that Subaru. Watch it disappear in my wife's V6 Mustang mirror without it. You're not comparing like cars.

People like you are the reason ordinary people don't go to the track for fun.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

You must be in a dream world where forced induction doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure most turbo setups on the forum without em would still be respectable cars.

Also its fine and more than good you put the important things before your hobbies but I'd that's the case then make the investment you do into it count no?

gtpro700

Like many other people already mentioned not everyone has this huge budget and if they build a 12 or 13 second car and thats all their budget allows for then they should be proud of it if built nicely. You also say it should "look" like a street car but wait anything faster then a 11.49 needs a roll bar so that theory is out the window.

Quiet is another requirement of yours and I totally understand where your coming from on this one. If I had a turbo buick I would want it quiet as well because I think it is one of the worst souding cars in a close second to a srt4 neon. Also your so about forced induction and these imports that would "whoop" a small block chevy so how about you put a turbo on a SBC and see the real power you can actually make. Bring all the stupid sounding imports with their turbos and put them up against a SBC at the same boost and watch the outcome of that race. End of rant just needed to comment on such an ignorant post.

b1lk1

The average person that has a hobby doesn't spend thousands upon thousands upon thousands on their cars. Forums such as this cater to the exteme 5-10% that do. The wealth of knowledge here is what enables us guys without the means or desire to have a crazy fast car have something better than stock.

Forced induction is not my issue. But you cannot compare them the N/A cars on any level. Even compare a 1983 Buick V6 turbo to a 1983 Z28 305. No contest the Buick smoked them in stock form. Now comparing to a newer Subaru WRC AWD car? Again, they have 150+ HP on my car stock VS stock. Add the fact that the Subaru can have add-ons that actually make real HP unlike my car. If you were to only perform bolt on add-ons to a stock 1983 Z28 you can gain little HP until you crack it open.

My investment is what it is. Realistic. When I can afford to spend $3K on a motor, I'll hopefulyl do it right. Until then I will build what I can. I look forward to anyone laughing at me and my car at the track or anywhere else. I am well prepared to handle that situation. One thing I won't do is talk smack about anyone elses car, no matter if it is faster or slower than mine. I am not in a competition and I don't expect to win any prizes or money.

As I said before, the whole mentality that does exist reality does at many race tracks and most red lights needs to change. Reminds me of the most idiotic show on the television, pinks. Nothing but 10 second cars that people dump tens of thousands of dollars on. What happend to the real world version that they started that show with? Oh yeah, real life doesn't sell as much as watching people with more money than brains.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Well, I'm impressed with my 12-sec street car. I make no excuses for putting sticky DOT's on at the track, nor running all season radials on the street. The all seasons couldn't hold the car when it was running 13's, let alone now (I punched it once on the street from a stop, it spun until it shifted to 2nd). But, I'm not going to run DOT stickies on the street - too expensive to wear out and too much risk of puncture.

I've scared myself with it too much lately, so I've been driving the '95 2500HD 6.5 TD to work this week. Much less likely to be tempted, and it's easier to hear the stereo. Plus I need to pull the engine to fix an oil leak - maybe I'll start driving it to work again after that is finished. Needs a PCM tune as well.

Kyle86

iTrader: (1)

Wow, pull the engine to fix a leak, that sucks! I've been there too though!

skinny z

[QUOTE=five7kid;4767580]Well, I'm impressed with my 12-sec street car..... But, I'm not going to run DOT stickies on the street - too expensive to wear out and too much risk of puncture.QUOTE]

Maybe just once in awhile. For that special occasion. I couldn't run 12's without sticky tires.
Perhaps the title of this thread should be " Are DAILY DRIVER (or could be) 12's respectable anymore?"
I would say that any car car that could run 12's and go and get groceries or drive across the country is certainly respectable. Forced induction, tubbed, roll cage, etc can apply so long as you prepared to pack your suitcase and golf clubs and drive 10 hours for a holiday.
If you NEED nitrous to run 12's, then you don't fit this new criteria. No juice, no 12's and you don't beat the WRX or new Vette onto the highway.

hairysox33

iTrader: (4)

I think the word everyone failed to mention is "perspective".... Your 12 second car is fast to Joe Blow, and slow to Captain sup 9 second car X. At least people are going to the track and racing, seems people are losing sight of FUN and replacing it with who can spend the most money and stroke their ego.