Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

Vortec Heads
Vortec Intake
ZZ4 cam
355 L98
unsure on carb
ZZ4 Cam
full exhaust

B&M 700 trans
2400 stall

3.73 rear

Think its possible with DR's? A member I know on Iz has this similar setup(bigger cam) and he runs 11's...

brodyscamaro

Nope...

zz4monte

I second that.A zz4 with vortec heads,performer rpm air gap and a 750 carb is worth about 370-380hp.Vortec heads are worth about 20-30hp over the L98 zz4 heads with a rpm style intake.This is to just give you a general idea on power.You could get into the high 12s with go traction with a combo like that.For 11s you are going to need a serious small block or a mild big block.I would say you need at least 470+hp and good traction. Just to give you some ideas here are some rough motor builds and the cars that they were in that I know of.

86 monte ss
408 small block
vortec heads 9:3: 1
comp xe 274
performer rpm intake
1 5/8 hooker super comps
3500lb car
Estimated horsepower 440hp, 500+ftlbs torque
12.4 1/4 mile
2.0 60ft

zz430 replica in an 87ss monte
zz4 with fastburn heads and hot cam
1 3/4 headers
3450lb car
3:50 gears
6 speed tranny T-56
Estimated horsepower 420hp 415 tq
12.7 1/4 mile
1.8 60ft

90 iroc
zz383 with performer rpm intake
1 3/4 headers
415hp 460tq
3.42 gears
700r4
3400 lb car
12.4 mile
1.8 60ft

These are just a few guys I know but you get the general idea.

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

I brought it up cause this guy runs a 11.6..

http://www.iroczone.com/garage/vehic...Slow%20Z&v=281

I know I'm lacking in the cam and stall department

zz4monte

Thats pretty fast for that combo but I guess if he has the car set up right. My buddy has a 408 with a similar combo and he thinks he can get high 11s with more traction,stall and a little tuning.Stock vortecs are great for street torque on a small block but they start to have problems making over 450hp with a streetable cam.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

you're lacking in trans gearing, stall, rear end gearing, compression, the size of your cam, and a full prepped suspension to hook, and missing slicks. But it's a good setup thus far and could be improved.

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

Keep in mind it is my daily driver in the summer. I planned on just MT ET's for track days.

zz4monte

If you have to drive to and from work I would get more cubes personally.
Combos like this are very streetable in a 350

355
AFR 180cc or 195cc depending
218-230 duration cam
10:1
2800 stall
3.73 gears

Something like that in you car would get you in the mid 12s with good traction for sure.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

well then plan on 12s

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

Not complaining about 12's!!!

Yea it is going to have to haul me to and from work(40 min each way). I'm sticking with the Vortecs no matter what. The cam can change, but the stall I doubt. Im barely scraping enough to get the block into the shop. I'm planning on a Q-jet or a 670 Avenger for my carb.

zz4monte

Yeah 12s is all your going to get unless you get a serious cam in the 235+dur area,3200+stall,4.10 gears etc. In a 350.The more cubes the easier it will be but I don't know anybody who drives a natural aspirated 350 that is daily driveable and runs 11s.Unless it is an LS1 based motor of course.I have seen a few guys with heads and cam in the high 11s with LS1 motors.

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

And they are dropping serious bills when guys like us can get just as good performance for half the price.

zz4monte

So the cam can be Hyd. roller right? I would go with a comp XEHR 270 218 224 dur 495 502 or XEHR 276 224 230 502 510 both should work with that stall but the 276 could use a little more.That should put you over 400hp and run you high 12s with good traction and be daily driveable.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

hey 240+ duration cams are streetable with a big stall. I drive mine around no problem.

Nic

I daily drove mine like that, with a 3 speed auto Then got smart and dropped in a G-force T5

brodyscamaro

Keep thinking that. Bang for the buck you're losing.

Nic

Agreed. Aren't they running 11's with bolt-on, sticky tires, and a converter?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well how bout a 305 cubic inch motor that is daily drivable that runs 11's? look for it this spring!

TBI92Camaro

You guys cant be serious. If you lay down 470+ RWHP you BETTER be in the 10's!!!!!!!

It only takes 400 RWHP to break into the 11's. And Im talking F-body.

Seriously, I suggest a bigger stall. and NO B&M junk. I say a GOOD BRAND 3000 stall with the 3.73's, MT DR's, and decent suspension work. Suspension is the key to make it hook and hook hard.

Also, I dont know the specs on the cam but mildly modified Vortecs canmake 350-400+ RWHP. Id say with stickey Mickey's, a GOOD cam (dont be scared of duration...you can tune the car to be highly streetable) and giving it hell, low 12's should be no problem for you.

Seriously, its making it all work right...especially in the first 100 ft down the track.

on a 355 Id say around 230* of duration is pretty solid. Lift doesnt matter much, round .500-.520 is plenty fine. Id get a custom grind cam or something beyond that puny stuff, cams can make and break combos!

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

spend alot of time tuning it at the drag strip and it's possible. I'd suggest a bigger stall, a little more gear and some sticky *** tires.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

What about how much does the car weigh? This will play a big factor.

brodyscamaro

You might be used to it, but the point could easily be argued that 4000 stalls aren't part of a daily driver combo...

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

Yea it has to be a streetable car. Gas milege is no concern, but having a big stall causes problems. Even with my 2400, I had to fiddle with the throttle to get it to pop into 2nd. The car does have to pass emissions, but if i slap a cat on, run some high octane, it should be good. MT ET's are the only tire I would run. Those will not be DD's though.

camarodarrell

I'd look at this Isky cam. Duration at .050" 225 in./ 234 ex., lift is .505" in./ .530" ex. That would run very well with your combo.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

I think you can do it with what you listed plus a cam change.

My car is daily driveable, and would pass emissions with a cam change and cat converter. I passed emissions years ago with a 230-236 114lsa cam. The 3500 stall and 3.73 gears is tame once you get used to it. A 4.10 gear would make it less 'loose', so your 2800 stall should be tame enough for you. I still get 20 mpg on the freeway if I keep my foot out of it.

I'm running 11.80-90's at 113 mph at 3690 raceweight which using the formulas comes out to about 417 hp or 333 rwhp.

You should be able to make 420-440hp with a good 350 buildup like the one car craft did, vortec heads, 230-236 cam and 10:1 comp.

brodyscamaro

Those formulas must be calculating RWHP. Think about it, some LS1s dyno 315rwhp bone stock. Even with slicks and a dead hook that number isn't going to push them into the high 11s.

What would your race weight have to be to trap 113mph with only 333rwhp?

camarodarrell

If it was 417 rwhp, the trap speed would be higher than 113 mph.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

There have been some LS1 cars that ran 11's with the right suspension and tires with around 335rwhp. I've seen a few in the past, but can't find any to prove it.

I used the formula to calculate hp from weight and trap mph.

All the calculators you find on the 'net seem to be off somewhat so it's hard to tell exactly how much power you are making using the calculators.

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

Camarothatcould

iTrader: (3)

This is looking good. I might be able to get a new cam, but I will not have enough for the stall. I think it would be just fine if got a new cam and kept my stall until next year. I might even have to keep my ZZ4 if funding lacks. I have about 4 1/2 months to get my car done. making $120 a week and having a Expy as a DD does not help, lol. I'll get er dun though

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

my 4000 stall converter is plenty streetable. it's a lock up and with 3.73's i can click off 20+mpg on the freeway with a modified 650 double pumper! the key to running a big stall on the street without worrying about overheating the motor or tranny is to have one with a lock up feature.

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

When i first got my old 305 running my trany went and i bought another th350, and later found out it was a lockup th350. I couldent use my stall so i just put the stock converter in it with the 224/230 .477/.480 lift cam. Normal driving was fine but if i got on it from a stop it would bog like hell then burn the tires off once it stoped.

zz4monte

A guy I know did the xehr276 swap and his zz4 and picked up 2.5 tenths in the 1/4 mile.He went from a 13.8 with a stock zz4.Then ran 13.55 with the new cam and he switched to a 2800 edge converter instead of the stock 1800 stall and drop to 13.1.I think the stall is more important then the cam swap but maybe you should change the cam to what ever you want and then if your 60ft or times are not that great get a better stall.Stall Stall Stall.I am a true advocate,even though mine sucks.I have had several buddys put 2800 stalls in from edge,or percision instead of the stock stalls and they all picked up at least .3tenths in the 1/4mile.Now I just need to practice what I preach and get a 2800 edge!!!

vwdave

I dont know about that one. Seems like a stretch to me.

Does he have proof?

88IROC350TPI

As clarified on iroczone my 11.6's was on spray. My car only runs 12.50's @ 108 on motor and has run a best of 11.62 @ 117mph with a 2.0 60ft on spray. Could never get a clean pass on the juice. Got it to hook hard a few times (sig picture) but was breaking up and running like crap on the top-end, figured out a few problems and then could never got it to hook right again. We'll never know what it COULD have ran since a new motor is brewing in my garage at the moment...

vwdave

Ok, now that makes perfect sense. The OP made it sound like you ran that all motor.

smoktire

This guy did nice time with vortec heads

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/275092

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

i don't believe that guys times either with that kind of mph and ET for a vortec headed car with all metal and interior, etc. he's running 11.30s @ 118 mph when the fastest i've seen mainly has been 11.90s at 113mph. So I'm not saying it's impossible, but i doubt it.

88IROC350TPI

I've posted this combo a million times before and I'll do it again. The fastest goof-proof no magic tricks involved Vortec headed car I know is a friend of mine with a full weight malibu (3600lbs with driver). Very basic setup that runs on pump gas and can be driven anywhere and everywhere... It's a .060 400 with stock crank, rods, and kb hyper pistons giving about 10.8:1. Vortec heads with stock valves and no porting at all. They've been properly machined for clearance, screw-in studs, and have good springs. Camshaft is Comp's Xtreme Solid 282 which is 244/252 @ 050, .520/.540 lift, 110LSA. Super victor vortec intake, 750 Mighty Demon carb, junkyard HEI, 1 5/8" headers with 2.5" duals. Drivetrain is a TH350 with Art Carr 9.5" converter (same as mine), out back is a 3.42 gear with 26" tall M/T DR's. Once again, there is 0 magic in this combo it has been thrown together and rebuilt many times and the results are always the same. It's run a best of 11.60's @ 114mph on motor.

Now if you put a motor like this into a lighter car like an f-body with your basic weight reduction you'd have an 11.30-11.40 car on motor that you could drive around all day long. If you don't, something is seriously wrong with you and you should rethink your mechanical abilities. It is absolutely goofproof.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

88iroc350tpi, while i agree with a 412 running those times the cardomain site posted above shows smaller cam, 350ci, and a full weight vehicle, less compression, etc etc.

smoktire

With my old vortec setup 355ci ,9.73:1cr ,XE268 cam with 1.6 roller rockers, manley under cut racing valve ,RPM air gap intake ,4150HP 650 carb ,msd box , P/S and Alternator working,th700 no stall ,4.10:1 rear gear ,car weight 3650 with me ran a 13.1@104mph...

Same but with 3.42 13.3@103 + 75hp nitrous shot 12.45@109 + 100hp shot 12.40@110

For now i got a stock l69 190hp 305 shave the car to a 3350lbs with me th350 trans 3000 stall and a 3.42 gear 14.3@93mph...Trans stall and weight do a lot....

87_TA

Sorry, have not followed whole thread - just see alot of huge numbers being thrown around with no performance to back.. It only takes 400 hp to push an effecient 3500lb car into 11.9 range..
If you are making 450 and running mid 12's - you are either wrong about your calculations or not making good use of power.
Either way, if you are making 450 in a 3500 lb car - you should trap somewhere around 117 mph... If you are not trapping anywhere near that
you are not making 450.
Ohh and I am speaking of FWHP..

as for stock LS1's - many do dyno 315 at the wheels
and that pushes a 3700 lb car to 109 mph in mnay cases stock!!! a set of 4.30s and slicks dumping at 6000 you sould seee very low 12's
And there are many bolt on ls1 in 11's

Being effecient does not always mean big stall, low gear..
Build a higher torque lower rpm engine (will be fairly easy with vortecs) and enjoy taller gears and very reasonable stall... especially if using a lock up.
also using a 700 you don't need to go with killer stall due to the lower 1st
My car has been running 3.73 since it has run 14's - and does so with taller 28" tires. that is same as running 3.42's with 26" tires. very streetable.
Its running 10s now - not by any means a low rpm engine though.. But I could easily change intake
to drop powerband alot and use even less stall than it had and gear.

With that being said, a vortec headed 350/383 has been proven to make
over 400 streetable HP built right, now go have fun.. Just be effecient.