antoine

guys i have a 88 tpi camaro with a paxton supercharger,58 mm tb,afr 195 74cc heads,ported base stock runners,42 pound injectors,10 inch stall,3.42 gears,1.6 rockers.i was tuned today in fairfield at advance dyno but the guy who tuned it is from the sac area but he came down to tune my car but i have a big problem the numbers are low for what i have 309 rwhp and 369 rwtq.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

Have you ever run it at the track, remember the dyno is a tool. What was your numbers before he tuned it?

antoine

they did not do a base line pull but before with the trickflow heads g1 and stock chip and 24 pound injectors best time on street tires at searspoint was 12.71 at 111mph

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

that doesnt really add up. 309whp with boost and heads is pretty low in my opinion. Is that with stock cam tho? could explain some low numbers

Also how much boost is the kit running?

111mph before the tune would be more like 310 whp or so, so if your at 309 now, thats not good for a dyno tune unless its a mustang dyno.

antoine

about 7 psi and that 111mph was with the trickflows g1 maybe its the 74cc heads and that lowerd my comp a little and the cam is slp 502/510 lift 220/239 dur on a 112 lobe sep and i have 1.6 rockers so the lift is bigger.

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

how did he tune it if he did not use the dyno as a tool?

antoine

he use two laptops first one was data logging and the other one he removed my chip and installed adaptor pluged to the other laptop he did adjustments at idle and he had me drive it going fast and slow addind spark/fuel,them we put it on the dyno the first pull was like 280 hp and 300 tq he added more timming he said 27 degree total then the dyno read 309hp 369 tq

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Something is very wrong with your setup. I have more power than that and I dont have a blower.

antoine

i'm sick right now kevin91 because you don't have a blower and have way more power than me and that was 500 for the tune and 100 for three pulls on the dyno could it be the stock tpi killing my power

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

How come you did not dyno it, then do the driving ON the dyno, and record the differences?

Does it feel any faster after the chip burning?

vindeezl

iTrader: (2)

Yep, classic case of mismatched parts

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

it may be a slight mismatch but the blower should make up for it, and STILL make alot more power than that. I know my buddies full bolt on L98 with a procharger at 12psi (I THINK, could have been lower) ran mid 12's at over 112mph i believe it was before blowing up, and thats an estimated 330-350whp. you have heads/cam... so it should still make more power if not the same

antoine

so if its mismatch what parts am i missing he said that the stock tpi was the problem

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

1. Stock TPI. 'Nuff said.

2. Stalled auto, stalls can eat power in a dyno graph but perform at the track/street.

3. Dynos are just tools, their numbers can't be taken too literally. Check with others that have dynoed there to see if it reads low or not. If it was a mustang dyno you could see quite a bit more on a dynojet... and what was the correction factor?

That being said, I think you need to ditch that intake and you'll see an easy 50 more hp. I had a N/A LT1 with ported stockers and a custom cam and it made a touch over 400, you should be able to blow that car away imo..

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Received your PM antoine, but not sure what you wanted, or if you were just telling me your issue.
I'm assuming it's because Mark mentioned me, as he's been helping tune my car for a few years now.
My GTA is not that fast next to other comparable setups, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

I'd say it was all covered in this thread already and by looking at your combo I'd have to agree.

urbanhunter44 said it best with 1-3.

1. You are not maximizing your blower/heads/cam potential with stock runners.
I'm not a Paxton blower fan to start, but it's being choked with the stock TPI.
I have a TPI setup, but it's all aftermarket and worked a bit.

2 & 3. Don't go into a dyno looking for impressive #'s, it rarely happens.
Use it as a tool only and translate it to the track. I haven't dyno'd since the addition of my blower, but I wouldn't be expecting much since I was only netting a 108mph last time out at the track.

Advance dyno uses a Dynojet I believe, so I'm sure that was the best your combo can put out.
The tune helped you considerably with all your mismatches, but it's not magic. It just optimized what you have and probably smoothed your pull throughout the rpm range.
Every car wants something different and it's hard to compare to other setups.
Bummer it cost you $600 for it all, but start with exploring other intakes and go from there.

antoine

the stall i have is a non lockup 24-2600 stall,whats a good intake to start with stealth ram,tpis bigmouth,lpe super ram etc.

OUTATIME GTA

iTrader: (2)

Depends on smog, powerband and your wallet.

Check out the "Alternative Port EFI Intakes" forum.

There is a sticky that gives you info on the many options.

urbanhunter44

iTrader: (3)

Assuming smog isn't a problem, the HSR is a very nice piece.

neagan

iTrader: (7)

What do you feel about the entire process, start to finish; other than the bad news on the numbers. Can you rate the difference on a 1-10 scale? Would you do it again or do it differently??? I'll be doing dyno tuning sometime later this year, so I is/are curious.
I understand that dynoing an engine while it's out of the car, without any accesories bleeding the power off, no exhaust restrictions, etc and give some very 'fat' numbers. Where do you think you fall into on the percentage of parasitic drag of the horsepower with your current drivetrain; 15% - 25%.

Would you use this shop again? thanks, Nitro

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

your down 20-30whp without locking up the trans converter. SO theres one reason your numbers are bit low.

Full bolt on TPI setup from runners to afermarket base will definately gain alot of power on that setup. If emissions is NOT a problem, then go HSR and gain even more hp....i mean alot. With that cam and shorter HSR runners, your gonna extend your rpm range near 1000 rpms and thats alot! Your car will definately approach the 400whp mark with intake swap and better tune, and locked converter

antoine

well the car feels faster but not for 500 for the tune and 100 for the three pulls on the dyno and on a scale maybe an 8.but if i did it again i would dyno it first to get a base line then tune it and dyno it again for max power like the tuner should have but he did not.the shop is good they mostly tune Ls1 type motors not tpi one the guy who tuned my car is from the sac area he came down to do a lt1 camaro first then mine.

antoine

my convertor is a nonlockup one.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

with unlocked converters your not transfering all the power the dyno so dont be dissappointed in low dyno numbers. However at the track or on the street, it doesnt matter and the car may even be faster with the converter open. I know my car ran faster 1/4mile times with unlocked converter.

antoine

the car runs very hard when i seen the dyno numbers i just wanted to put gas all over the engine and light it.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

run it at the track to see whats up. I think my buddies high stalled 406 chevy put down high 300's whp but ran high 10's at ove 125mph.... so thats some food for thought. in a manual that would be like 500whp

valencia1z

did u try any more timing did u check see were the timing was under boost and to be honest its going to change once ure at the track and the weather go to a test and tune this coming week im going to the track weds night and ill be there sunday should be there sat my buddies takin his nova only reason i went to a dynos before is for the air fuel reading the rest has been on me dont feel baD i made a 290 to the wheels and i thought the made my car worse i ended up doin it over myself and the had so much timing i went and melted a plug trial and error my dyno is the track i whould of bought tires couple test and tunes or weds nights and got me some lunch whould of been better then 5 or 600

antoine

we both have the same heads but i have a paxton and did 309 and you are on motor and did 290 my combo is way off. the tuner said to set the timming stock 6 but he program in my chip for a total if 27 degrees timming i may advance it at the disturtor alittle

valencia1z

if anybody is interested in a sn 2000 paxton cheap i pulled it off today off a buddies car 88 iroc-z 1000

antoine

to bad it's not the vr-4 one but i will ask around

valencia1z

that dyno was over a year and a half atleast my car was going 13.2 13.3 and now same combo 12.50 i got tired of waisting money on dynos ide rather put it to use dial it in myself and beat on it at the track
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whats ure base timing and ure total

antoine

before the tune he said to put it at 6 degrees and total in the chip he put it at 27 degrees

antoine

i have the dyno graph,how do you post it i can email it to someone and they can post it here.
__________________

PHAT89TA

use photobucket.com. its free and it will auto adjust the size to fit

antoine

here it is

antoine

Here is your dyno graph from saturday, the blue was the first run and the
red was the last run.

gta324

Stock intake can produce alot of power under boost, but an aftermarket intake can produce more............

What valve springs do you use?

What is your exhaust setup?

/N.

Gunner823

iTrader: (2)

Something is wrong, and it's not just his parts.

Before I grenaded my supercharger, I was running a P600b on a COMPETELY STOCK TPI setup with a mild cam and STOCK heads. Also, a totally stock chip, no joke. My compression was lowered to 8:1. at 7psi with the converter _unlocked_ I saw 346 rwhp and 406 rwtq. I also ran a 12.52@111mph in July with track temps of 100 degrees and no water/ice on the intercooler and bald drag radials with a 60ft of 1.9. With his heads, ported base, and a tune, he should be close to 400whp if not over, even with an unlocked converter...maybe a bit less on a mustang dyno.

Either something is seriously amiss in the tune or a/f, the boost gauge is flat out wrong and you've got a major boost leak, or your engine/valvetrain isn't healthy.

antoine

what ever springs came with the afr 195,i have hooker headers and borla exhaust.

rjt76

your trickflow head setup was on target at 12.7 111mph. that would have been in the 350rwhp ballpark. what else did you do during the head swap we are unaware of?

antoine

I installed the afr's,58 mm tb,1.6 rockers,tune,42 pound injectors

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if they are the new AFR eliminators, they ahve 1.29 inch ls1 style dual springs, rated at 135lbs at 1.800 installed height. Mine were factory setup at 1.775/ 1.780 intake/exahust so the pressure was higher.

those are pretty stout springs but maybe you could use more valve spring?

antoine

yes the new afr eliminators not even 800 miles on them maybe because they are 74 cc.

rjt76

take it back to the track and check the times again.

antoine

it feels alot faster maybe i should change the cam and put one with a 114 split

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

I dont think valvesprings are an issue, the dyno graphs dont show typical valve float associated with weak springs in my judgment.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

the cam looks ok... 112lsa but it has 220-239 duration, a big split there. It should run ok with the blower. Maybe its not a good TPI cam? I know there are some guys having problems with making power on long shapped runner TPI setups and i think it may be a cam issue.

antoine

found out it was only getting 3.5 pounds of boost maybe belt was slipping