Thefox

Well it is about time for me to look for another car and I was thinking about holding out till I find the nice 3rd gen camaro or firebird that I have always wanted. The thing is I will need to drive it in the winter for the next year or two and it seems like everybody I talk to says they are horrible in the snow. So what do you think? Any advice?

For some background the car will be in western PA mostly as I go to college near Pittsburgh, I will have it home over Christmas break which is a 300 mile trip to SyracuseNY. I am 22 and have owned an '86 Ranger (2wd) and a '92 Sidekick (4wd), both of which got me around fine in the winter. I had to sell the ranger to fund my cross country motorcycle trip last year so I have the bike still and plan on finding a car at some point this summer, no really big hurry.

Jtufts

dude i will tell you , they suck *** in the snow , i used mine in the little snow we got this year , it didnt wanna run it slid when it was like 1 inch of snow on the ground

i used it tho i just did not go over 15 mph , and it worked out well enough

ghost077

I agree, I bought my bird in January, weather was good up until then, after that we got that really horrible snow. I've never been so scared for my life tha driving it in the snow....... up a hill...... getting used to the 5speed and posi combo. Still love the car tho, but gonna get me a truck for the winter.

zdc590

City roads id imagine its doable, but back roads...you know, up and down hills or uhhh corners. I dont suggest it...at all. We tried to move my brothers last winter, when we finally got it out of the driveway, it just slid down the road.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

I've done it with a few different 3rd gens. The easiest were the 2.8 automatics with decent tires for snow. The worst was the 87 IROC, TPI 350 aggressive shift kit and summer tires. every 1-2 and 2-3 shift the back end was sideways no matter how slow I went. Get some really good all season tires or dedicated snow tires and it's not terrible. The worst part is what the salt does to a car that is already around 20 years old.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

A v6 car (or maybe even an LG4/L03) with weight in the trunk and a good set of snows can be pretty good. From the time I was 17 until just a few years ago, my winter car was almost always a v6 thirdgen, and it got me everywhere. However, I got caught in the snow with my GTA once and it was one of the most terrifying rides home I've ever had. Likewise, I've had to try and move my IROC in a snowy driveway a couple times, and even that was almost a disaster.

Plus, if you want a nice thirdgen, don't get it full of Syracuse salt for 2 winters. That'll devistate 80's sheet metal rapidly. Syracuse, like Rochester, gets daily doses of lake effect snow, and because it's all hills, they salt the hell out of everything all winter long. Buy a beater first, and buy the thirdgen after.

Thefox

Oh, doesn't sound too promising then for me does it. What makes them so bad? I would definitely get a fill set of snow tires and it not a light car.

Really I am hoping winter driving will be a last resort anyways. I don't want to get a nice car salty so most likely I would sell my motorcycle and buy a winter beater; I already have a friend that said he would store the car if I wanted.

ghost077

The car is very unstable and unpredictable in the snow, plus it being so low to the ground lets it get stuck alot. God forbid you have to climb any incline on a snowy day, I ended up sideways on a bridge just putting along. Weights or sandbags are a good way to go.

online170

What makes em so bad? I think i can answer this one. But first, let me say, you need tires! Real winter tires, they can make night and day difference. Its definately doable, but not safe.

Now this is why they are so bad. When you only replace 2 tires on a vehicle, lets say its FWD, you want to put the new tires on the rear. This is because, if you put them on the front, the drive wheels (which are also the turning wheels) will always have traction. So you will always be able to go fast with ease, however, as soon as you turn, you loose your back end and spin out.

So now lets put em in the back. Some ppl argue, you wont be able to steer, well maybe so, but you also wont be able to go fast enough, or brake hard enough, which will force you to dirve safe. And you wont spin out.

Now i realize our cars are not FWD, but bare with me. Lets say you get all 4 new tires for snow and ice. Now, the front of our cars are really heavy, and the back isnt at all. So now when you need traction, it aint happening, You turn, it oversteers, and the back spins out. NOT SAFE!

However, i have seen ppl do it, but i wouldnt attempt it with a v8 car.

njspder

my 91 RS was my year round daily driver for 6 years. i never had any problems with weather, just took it easy and threw 3 or 4 bags of sand in the hatch well.
most of driving any car in the snow has to do with how you drive. don't stab the gas, jerk the wheel, or slam on the brakes and you will be fine.
i only ever got stuck once, i high centered trying to pull into my neighborhood. they had plowed the main street and made a 2ft tall snow bank, i thought i could make it through the low spot in the pile.........i was wrong. lol

TheWraith

i have tons of experience driving 3rd gens in snow, and it can be ok. you obviously are going to have some limitations, but you can be every bit as functional as any other rwd or fwd car is.

i've been stuck in terrible snowy/icy weather several times unexpectedly, where cars and even suvs were spinning out and sliding all around me and even flipping, and i was fine. including several trips in a supercharged iroc, and several in an 04 gto, including one particularly crappy one with bald summer only rear tires.

first off, it would be a giant advantage to find one with a posi rear. Night and day difference in capability right there. My iroc could get out of a lot of situations where my sport coupe had a ton of trouble. i remember the first winter with the iroc, we had a giant snow storm very early in the season, and my parking for the college house i was renting exited uphill onto a steep one way alley that never got plowed - too small to even fit a city plow. I figured i was stuck for weeks, since i knew my sport coupe wouldn't have stood a chance, but the iroc went right out, granted with some fishtailing and some skill, but it the job.

second, the tires make a giant difference as well. do not drive on non all season tires in snow/ice/etc. do not drive on bald tires. All season in general are ok, especially for front steering only tires, but snows are better.

finally, added weight in the hatch is a really good idea. I did 120 lbs of sand one winter, but i never did it again since one of the bags leaked and i was finding sand in the car for years after. make sure whatever you use is over the rear axle, or as close as possible.

i'd highly recommend learning the art of fishtailing/skidding in a very empty icy parking lot. it pays off HUGE to know what happens if you skid and how to properly compensate for that action. additionally coming to a gradual stop instead of sliding from overbraking, and how to pull out right, keeping momentum going up a hill and all that stuff should also be learned in empty lots, etc, before you actually NEED the skills.

oh and thirdgens, and a car with gfx especially, have major limitations in movement in any real depth of snow.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

Like mentioned above. They're not all wheel drive cars. You will need to learn how to fishtail. Fishtailing is not necessarily losing control, so the sooner you can do it and be comfortable doing it, the easier driving in the snow is.

The cars are not crap in the snow. Tires mean everything, deep tread (not Z rated) tires make all the difference. Drive slow, make sure your rear brakes actually work and you should be fine. Your drive height will come into play of course. I've driven in a few inches of snow, to the point where my "cow pushing" nose was plowing the street.

Anyone who crashes their car because of inclement weather simply cant drive. There really is no other reason unless a tornado appears out of nowhere or ball lightning travels into you car. You're always taking the risk when driving outside of your comfort zone.

ghost077

Good stuff to know for next winter, although I might just save myself the headache and buy a truck or something.

punkdude908

i use 15'' goodyear snow tires in the rear and leave the all weathers on up front and put (2) 25 lb. bags of sand in the rear cargo area. all i can say is during a pretty bad snow storm i was passing ford explorers and other SUVs up a decent size hill.

btw, 3rd gens are GREAT for taking to an empty parking lot in the snow and doing donuts.

tpi-hearse

iTrader: (27)

tires tires tires..very simple I used New 215/60/16 studded snows all around on a 1989 formula 305tbi no weight in trunk went through anything with ease my old pos fwd car would not..

online170

Im pretty sure studded tires are illegal, just like chains, unless ofcourse you are on private property with permission.

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

I can drive my 87' in the snow. it isan't fun at all.

and lets face it a 300 mile drive home on western PA / NY roads aren't exactly smooth to start with, the comfort issue would come into play with me.

I generally drive my Lumina in the snow, but it breaks down from time to time and i have to drive the camaro, and thats just no fun. i had the back end shoot out from under me plenty more then once.

Celticsfan

iTrader: (1)

Im pretty sure atleast in Ct that there are certain months you can have them on

online170

well i live in ottawa ontario, and we get some pretty extreme weather. But this is the city, with 90% paved roads, unless you really get into the outskirts. The city is very good about salting the roads,a nd clearing snow, so once u get onto main roads theres not much need.

Ofcourse studded tires will get you the grip you need, but judging by the fact that they WILL damage paved city property, id imagine they are illegal.

ad356

My advice, DONT DO IT. take a trip to the local junk yard. look at all of the sad looking third gens, really makes me want to cry. if you value your car at all you want commit it to that kind of a sentence. by a piece of crap FWD corsica, cavalier or something along those lines. cheap throw-away cars at the end of there lives. spend say 500 bucks on it, run it for a few winters and junk it. you loose nothing, you third gen will remain clean, easy to work on, and continue to hold its value and driving enjoyment for the future. and you will end up with a FWD car for the winter that drives better in the snow anyway. i wont even consider driving my car in the winter, i looked long and hard for a clean out of state car. not to mention when i work on my third gen its enjoyable to work on. everything comes apart with ease, i hate working on junk thats rusted together. i only do minimal repairs to my corisca that i run in the winter. i do more that basic work to my third gen, constantly trying to improve it. sometimes i work on it just for something to do, cleaning it. i drive my third gen everyday in the summer 8-10K a summer and love every minute of it, but it will never touch salt. i dont even want salt anywhere near my car, it sits in a garage all winter.

aletheian

iTrader: (1)

I've had mine out this winter a few times and had no trouble at all, but I only had it out 4 or 5 times about a mile to work and back.

I've also been to Pittsburgh a month before it even snows in central PA and theres snow all over the ground, plus your driving North.

I would say probably not such a great idea... unless you can borrows someones car for the winter time. Like I said I haven't ever had trouble but I might have only drove 10 miles max, and I hear the horror stories of how bad they do suck.

trackbird

iTrader: (7)

I just sold my 2002 Z28 M6 and it was a daily driver for me since the day I bought it new in 2002. The car was lowered about 1.5 inches or so and had Koni DA's all around and I even won a regional autocross championship in it (with the same shock settings and all that I drove in the snow). I had virtually no issues driving it in the snow. I always ran good all season tires (first year) or snow tires (every year after that because I just didn't buy a set for the first year) and I never had issues. I drove from Columbus, Oh to the Hagerstown, MD area in a couple inches of snow and slush one winter and had no issues anywhere in the mountains or anything else. Sure, you couldn't drive 90 mph, but I cruised at a solid 45-50 in the nasty spots and faster where it was lighter. And, I never put any weight in the rear of this car, I just put tires on it and drove it for the winter.

Just make sure you have a working limited slip and that you run good tires on all 4 corners. Just running rears is not smart and just running fronts will not help you get moving.

These cars are not front wheel or all wheel drive, but they can be made to go pretty well in the snow if you put the right tires on it and learn to drive smoothly. I'd do it again in a second.

Ymesss

iTrader: (1)

now my tires and such are not set up for all season weather, but i couldnt even imagine how bad my car would do on the snowy roads. I do know one thing, with 4in of fresh snow, i could barely move my car between two garage doors in my driveway. Had to rock it out of packed snow rivits 3 times.

Naga1337

Wow, this is a useful topic. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with tire chains. My dad works at the post office, so I could "borrow" some for free for the winter if need be.

trackbird

iTrader: (7)

Most of these cars tell you not to use them in the manual. There is a risk of body damage. Besides, my experience shows that you can do just fine with a limited slip and good snow tires. I'd pass on the chains.

If anyone needs a set, I've got a set of 4 235/45-17 snow tires in my garage from my 2002 car that I'm trying to sell. If anyone needs a set, I'll make you a deal.

Genhero

iTrader: (3)

My thirdgen was my daily driver year around for 3 years, I live in Mass and the winters are pretty bad. My posi is broken but I throw shingles or patio block in the trunk (so there is nothing to leak or spill). I have a set of all season tires, now I must say I have never gotten into an accident even with my college 30 minutes away. When it starts to snow and it is real "powdery" on the roads, I would suggest staying in because braking is very difficult especially trying to come to a complete stop, even at 5-10 mph and babying the pedal my tires would always lock up and slide.

It is very do-able aslong as you have the option to call out of your plans when it starts to snow, atleast until it is semi-plowed. Even waiting 20 minutes for the first set of plows to pass has always helped me avoid any accidents... that and my horn

I now have a truck but regret all the salt damage to the underbody. Goodluck, hope it works out for you either way.


-Russ

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

my 89 trans am has the 16 inch wheels on it with 50 series tires and gets along fine in the winter.... I live in central Wisconsin and had drove last March from southern Iowa to here in a blizzard and didnt skip a beat! Cars and trucks in the ditches everywhere...but there I am runnin along just fine.... I had an 82 that was the same way.....

blackbird615

iTrader: (1)

Jesus it was terrible... Esp this past winter. It took me 2 hours to go 2 miles literally- all to find out the bank was closed. It took me even longer coming back, theres a hill on a highway that i need to ascend to get to my house and I kept sliding backwards down the hill..rather quickly might I add. I also got stuck in 4 inches of snow wtf!


Baaaad news man

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

I would say its a bad idea. I drove my 87 Crown Victoria in about 4 inches of snow and slid out in front of someone then came up to a yellow light doing 45 and lightly hit the brake to start slowing down and just locked the tires. Went right through that light sideways. Also, I was sitting on a hill in my 87 Camaro with a 350 TPI and stepped on the gas (lightly, like 1/10 of the way down) and spun the tires (10 inch wide ones to). These cars have a lot of torque and thats never good for snow.

Winter driving also destroys your car with the salt and junk, just rusts it out. If you have really good snow tires, and a smaller engine, you could do ok, but I still don't think its a good idea.

safemode

iTrader: (1)

winter driving is fun. It's easy to avoid doing stupid things. Dont do 45 in 4" of snow, let alone wait too long to slow at a yellow light. You just have to use some common sense. You're driving a 3500lb car with usually crappy rear breaks and rarely with snow type tread. Your brakes aren't anti-lock so obviously they'll lock up if you overcome the friction of your driving surface, locking the brakes does two things, it causes you to become a hockey puck and it actually increases your stopping time due to the lower friction coefficient. So, dont drive faster than is safe for _YOUR_ car in the driving situation and be aware of your brakes, if they lock up, take your damn foot off them.

As long as you know the limits of your car in the driving situation you're in, you'll be fine. There is no excuse to be the cause of any accident in that kind of weather, no matter what kind of car you drive. And there is no reason why these cars cant be driven in the snow (so long as it's lower than the ground effects), but you shouldn't drive them if you dont think you have the ability to control it. That's true of any situation though, just use your judgement and dont drive when you dont think you can.

bigcamaroboi

what bout the salt, how many time should i wash my car in a car wash?

Titan85

iTrader: (1)

You have to wash salt off a lot. As long as there is salt sitting on the car, it is going to cause rust. Salt is the biggest reason I am keeping my car away from snow.

Stupid things like doing 45 down the freeway? Or maybe driving toward a green light at the end of that freeway that turns yellow when you are 200 feet away? Those aren't stupid things, nor were they reckless. Old post, but don't really appreciate being called an idiot indirectly and made out to be a fool.

RED_DRAGON_85

One thing that helps any car in the snow is having dedicated snow tires all around and skinny tires at that.
I'd get 205 or skinnier tires if possible. Skinny tires cut through the snow better than wide tires for summer use. The best rwd winter cars are big, heavy, low powered, posi-traction, and skinny tired. Except for the low power part any camaro can be just fine with a few simple tweaks.

SpecialK47150

If there is 4" of snow sitting on the freeway still, 2 things.

1. Your state has crappy road crews.

2. It'd still be stupid to do 45mph in 4" of snow, freeway or not.

Also, in snowy conditions, if you have distance between you and the light when it turns yellow, begin to slow. Only run the yellow if you're somewhat close, and I've even run reds because I knew I wouldn't be able to stop in time, and cops around here seem to be pretty understanding when road conditions are bad.


About the original post -

Winter driving is fine as long as you have 2 things.

1. A bit of common sense. Don't give it a lot of power around a curve or during acceleration, and don't try to stop quickly. 3rd gens are NOTORIOUS for sliding and having their rear ends break loose.

2. Driver skill/experience. Knowing how to drive a RWD car with a bit of torque in snowy/icy conditions is a major factor. Due to being RWD, anytime you go to accelerate or turn, its gonna want to go sideways normally, because you're pushing it, not pulling it, so take it slow. Also, being V8 powered cars, we have more torque than most people, and our wheels like to spin. Slowly and carefully apply the gas pedal.

RED_DRAGON_85

Sorry old thread

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Right on!!

otecnick88GTA

heres one you can do if you cant get out if parked near a curb or something similar, keep two peices of card board that are like 3 feet long or so, and when your parked and start to spin and cant move jam the card board under the tires and slowly press the gas, i know it sounds crazy but it works, one good thing my mom tought me about cars, who whould of thought she had mostly fbodys since she started driving in the 70s

Unchained88

Winter driving was an issue when I was looking for a 3rd gen. I live in MA, so theres lots of snow in the winters. I dont own a 3rd gen yet (soon! If anyone can find a deal for around $13/14 hundred, please let me know), but I've driven an 88 Formula around in the snow a couple times.

It really wasnt that bad, but you have to be careful. If you dont slam the gas and go all the way down on the brakes, you'll be fine, like everyone says. Accelerating too fast with cause you to spin out, and braking to hard will do the same, you'll be sideways before you know it. If you do get one, I advise you to drive around somewhere fairly empty, until you get used to it. Turns on a 3rd gen feel a little different if you've never driven one, at least to me. Learn to fishtail too, like everyone else says. It will pay off in the winters, believe me. Take it to an empty parking lot and just little by little start to get the feel of spinning out and truning it back into place. Kind of funny story, I was doing it last night around 7:30 in an empty park (wasnt trespassing, gate was wide open). Some guy in a cherokee pulls up as I'm leaving and tries to block me in. He finally drives a little too forward and I get out of the lot, and he chases me around for awhile, I turn down street and he doesnt follow. I come out on the main road, and sure enough after I pass one sidestreet he's behind me again. I pull down a street to see what he wants, and 2 cops with thier lights on come and pull me over. I didnt know what was going to happen, but I just gave them my liscense, and they told me to "get the **** out of here". I dont think the guy in the cherokee was an under cover cop, when he was blocking me in I tried to pull up next to him to see what he wanted (at that point I didnt know he was going to follow me haha), but everytime I'd pull up next to him he'd hide his head down. Pissed me off a little that he thinks he'd got the right to try and play cop with me, trying to block me in the park for one and then chase me right on my taillights. And call the cops too, making me have to go through to 20 minutes of sitting there with 2 cops flashing their lights, not knowing if I was in trouble or not. I'm 17, so I'm still pretty careful about driving within the rules, so with laws this strict for minors these days I was worried about getting my liscense taken away or something. That means no driving for a long time, and with me working my *** off for the past 6 months trying to get money for a 3rd gen, I'd be PISSED.


It's not illegal, fishtailing, is it? The gate to the park was wide open, It wasnt late at night (only 7:00) and the ince spot was very wide, without a doubt big enough to do it without coming close to hitting the 1 line of fence there was. Can they charge with with something for fishtailing?

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

right on fellow Mass hole

Genhero

iTrader: (3)

Fishtailing is definitely illegal, you can get reckless driving for it. Reckless driving is a pretty serious offense. You would know because they will give you a court summons, or did they and thats why you are asking? I doubt they would do anything to bad since you are only 17 but also for future reference even if the gate is wide open it is still considered trespassing, please be careful with things like that. Wouldn't want to lose your license right after you got it.

Unchained88

Oh, I see. Didnt know that. Yeah, forget what I said then, dont go fishtailing to try to learn. I didnt know it was illegal. My friend was the one who was driving whe the cherokee blocked us in, but I was driving when the cops pulled us over. They just told us to get out of there, they said nothing about charging us with anything. I'll keep that in mind, not worth it to get your liscense taken away for fishtailing, I've been careful about everything else and I'm not going to lose it for some spinning.

FireDemonSiC

Haha. Yeah, anything outside of normal driving nowadays can be classified as "illegal", even if your intentions are clearly to be responsible/safe about it. I remember reading on here in some post some dude was given a ticket for simply revving his engine at somebody. The charge was "Exploitation Of Performance", or something along those lines.

I know it is really annoying, yeah. Right up the street from my house, theres a street that cuts behind a shopping center that I refer to as, "My personal drag strip". It's not much. I only use it for testing purposes when I'm trying to fine tune somethiong because I have to shut it down immdiately after I hit 2nd gear which is where the road ends and turns out into the shopping center. But I've stopped going back there because it has become absolutely infested with local PD in that area. Even at 2AM when theres not so much as a cricket out I know I would get a ticket for wreckless driving.



Perfect example. Security at the local mall absolutely hates me, and back in the fall when I got my car back from a 6 month hiatus it only took 2 days for them to put my car down on the frequent offender list. I came to work at 8AM (I work at a wireless kiosk inside Costco) And the parking lot was absolutely empty. There were a total of 2 cars parked all the way at the other end of the lot all the way up the corner which I did not go near. So since this was a brand new engine, I was working on breaking it in by throwing the shifter in 2nd and blazing around the parking lot, with lots of varying RPM's and engine braking. Keep in mind all I was doing at this point was speeding up and slowing down (At least where I could be seen) and was not doing anything like fishtailing, burning out and drifting.

I noticed in my rearview as I was pulling into the side lot that a security guard was following me. Then he did his little R2D2 thing with his wannabe cop siren and I thought for a split second that it would be fun to leave him and his little POS pickup truck in the dust, but decided it would not weigh in my favor if he decided to call local PD since my job was on mall property. I stopped and this smartass stuicks his head out the window, "Yeah Uhhh, I'm not sure if your tryna blow the engine or what but one of our "officers"
back there warranted your plates as almost hitting his security vehicle (Idiot who parked his truck right in the middle of a main road before I even pulled into the mall to do anything stupid. I was in awe at his level of arrogancy so without any sort of braking just jerked the wheel and swerved around him). So I said, "You mean that clown who was blocking the Potomac Mills Circle?". "uhhh, yeah I'm just gonna need to slow it down and stop haulin ***". So I said fine and that was that.

It's really sad nopwadays that no matter where you go, or what your intentions are that in order to learn how to drive defensively, you have to pay hard earned money to take a course. But if your ever put in a real life situation where you might need those sort of skills, all you can do is collect your insurance check. Go figure.

Unchained88

Who knows, maybe the guy in the cherokee was just a nice guy trying to tell us to stop because he didnt want to see us crash or get hurt. He lived on the same street as the park, I could see him pull into his driveway when a little bit before the police left. If thats the case, I wish I couldve talked to him right there, I dont know if he had called the police at that point, and I wouldve told him we were on our way.

I think the reason 2 police cars came is because they were looking for someone. When they came to my car, they asked every male in the car if our name was "Johnathan", and then asked his partner if I looked like "Jonathan" and his partner shook his head no. We said no, he took our 3 liscenses, and went back to his car for about 5 minutes. He came back, told us to cut the ****. He said if we wanted to do donuts, to get a better car to do them in (I was driving my Grand Prix). I told him thanks and said we'd be on our way, I was going to drop everyone in the car off at home. He said dont come back and do that stuff in my area, and to get out of here. I said thanks and left. I'm really hoping its going to end with that verbal warning, because if I were to get in more trouble and lose my liscense it'd be the worst, my intentions werent to be reckless but I read that you should learn to fishtail in this thread even, so I wanted to give it a shot. Keep in mind not out of control spinning, I only did about 2 and they only drifted about 45 degrees, really nothing at all. Same with what my friend did. My friend was driving when the Cherokee pulled up, but we switched seats and I was driving when the police came. They never even asked if we were doing donuts, I knew he knew because he said something to his partner about it after he took out liscenses, but I think if he were going to charge me then he'd have to ask what happened. They werent there while we were in the park, neither was the guy in the cherokee, he must have heard us. I dont know how though, we didnt slam the gas and hit like 90000000 RPM's so we werent making alot of noise. Maybe he looked out his window and saw us, probably what happened. Anyway, I think if something were to happen, he wouldve had to ask us what happened.

I'm glad I know that its not legal to do, it couldve happened later one in a situation where I'd actually get in alot of trouble. It's not gonna happen again, I'm not losing my liscense for some spinning.

FireDemonSiC

The key to doing things like this is to find an area you know will most likely not raise any trouble.

But whenever you get froggy with your car, always remember you are taking a risk. From cops to deer, it CAN happen ANYWHERE!

L695speed

I learned to drive in the snow with a Bronco with 4X4, Dad took me to an empty lot (the school parking lot) told me to turn off the 4X4 and try to drive. It was fun. LOL we spent an hour or two on the basics of car control and slides, drifts, donuts etc. Was one of the best lessons I had. Later on we got another Bronco that I found out the 4X4 was broken. Snapped on me in upstate NY at 20 mph in at least 6 inches of snow. Thanks to that hour or so in the parking lot I was able to drive it home. Since the Bronco has over 300 ft lbs of torque it is lethal even in the wet. I also had the back end step out on our MR2 when I hit a patch of damp pavement at 50+ and I didn't even notice that I was correcting the car and downshifting it to keep it on the road. As for the TA I never drove it but I remember Dad leaving the driveway in the morning in 4 inches of snow. Could hear it going through the gears just to get up the driveway. He hit at least 4th gear. He gave up and stayed home that day. Now I know my sister who got her license last year thinks driving in the snow is a death sentence. I've been driving for over five years now and she is trying to keep me from leaving with the Bronco. Moron. Someone needs to take her out in the snow....anyway also thanks to those lessons I succeeded in getting the Truck up an icy hill in a full opposite lock powerslide all the way up the hill LOL WAS FUN! Now to do it with the TA! Oh wait it doesn't run yet.

Learn the basics of car control and be smart. You will be fine in the snow no matter what you are driving.