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Alright fellas, I THINK I've found the one that will actually hang around for a while. When I was hunting for my old green GTA, a friend of mine got me in contact with someone who had an identical car: a 91' ttop green GTA, but automatic. The car had some damage, a miss-matched interior, the hatch was replaced and no spoiler, so I figured meh, it's probably a clap wagon. That was months ago. Then last week, it gets offered to me for $2000 (canadian), so with nothing better to do I figured I'd go take a look. Sure enough, here's a car with absolutely no rust, nice paint (minus the damaged spot), 123,000km (75K Miles), and thousands worth of mechanical work all done by a reputable shop. Turn the key and it blazes right up, runs flawlessly, and doesn't leak a drop of anything. Deal. The only catch is that unfortunately the codes reveal that she's just a nicely equipped Trans Am with GTA badges on it, though they're very well placed! Still a WS6 car, with all factory equipment still in place, so really I don't care. I'll leave the emblems on and admit my true identity to the few people who ask. The car's covered in dust and a million finger prints, so she doesn't look like much in the pics. Keep in mind though that finding such a clean car anywhere in Ontario is damn near impossible, never mind one for this price point with all the other goodies.
So as she sits right now, I need a driver side fender, nose, passenger side front GFX, hatch, spoiler, and one center cap. Interior wise, I'll leave the wheel because I hate the look of the air bag wheels and at least this horn works, and I'll convert everything back to proper beechwood as I come across the parts. It comes with the original seats but apparently they aren't in great shape, so we'll see. I'd like to get another set of tan ultima's, but I probably won't find a set for lord knows how long. For now though, my heart feels happy about having another green bastard in my world
So as she sits right now, I need a driver side fender, nose, passenger side front GFX, hatch, spoiler, and one center cap. Interior wise, I'll leave the wheel because I hate the look of the air bag wheels and at least this horn works, and I'll convert everything back to proper beechwood as I come across the parts. It comes with the original seats but apparently they aren't in great shape, so we'll see. I'd like to get another set of tan ultima's, but I probably won't find a set for lord knows how long. For now though, my heart feels happy about having another green bastard in my world
Congratulations! I thought that you had purchased the other one that was parked outside the mechanic shop. This looks like it's in good shape. Kijji and/or facebook marketplace would be your best options for parts ( I will keep an eye out for you). Are seat covers available? What is the history on the car owners, etc......?
Congratulations! I thought that you had purchased the other one that was parked outside the mechanic shop. This looks like it's in good shape. Kijji and/or facebook marketplace would be your best options for parts ( I will keep an eye out for you). Are seat covers available? What is the history on the car owners, etc......?
Thanks man! I’m still trying to purchase the red one as well, but it’s easier said than done when nobody seems eager to move it. I have a connection at Service Ontario trying to get me a name of the owner though! You’d be surprised how difficult it can be to find 91-92 bird specific parts that are used too. 80’s stuff is a dime a dozen but a whale tail spoiler or the front GFX are nowhere to be found. One spoiler for sale but it’s cracked and $550 which is nuts. I’ll chip away at the list though
There you go! nice deal there I'd send pics to the proud owner of your former car and tell him how glad he was firm on his price- did you a favor!! this was meant to be
Nice! That's my favorite bird color. Someone went to a lot of trouble replicating a GTA. Are you sure that's the original RPO sticker? Either way, great looking car! L98?
DR.K.
Nice! That's my favorite bird color. Someone went to a lot of trouble replicating a GTA. Are you sure that's the original RPO sticker? Either way, great looking car! L98?
DR.K.
Unless it's been swapped, the RPO codes shows LB9 for the engine making it the 5.0L TPI which honestly isn't too far off stock vs stock with the 5.7L TPI
Unless it's been swapped, the RPO codes shows LB9 for the engine making it the 5.0L TPI which honestly isn't too far off stock vs stock with the 5.7L TPI
Best be checking again. No R6P, no N10, that's the 205hp 'banana in the tailpipe' 305. Peep that GU2, that's 2.73 gears! That's a LONG WAY from 305 with G92/R6P territory, completely different ball game from a L98 that came with R6P/G92 standard. High 15 seconds vs low 14 seconds. To get slower you'd have to go TBI, 1986 LB9, LG4, V6, 4cyl...
Thanks fellas, I appreciate the positive responses! At the end of the day, a 305 is a 305 when it has an automatic behind it, so I'm not too worried about it. I can take a car from work when I need to go fast, so I really only care that A: it's a TPI, and B: it's healthy and only has 123,000km on it. As for the GTA part, like I said, I really don't care as the car was still born a TPI T/A, not a base bird that got the clone treatment. To the few people who will ask about legitimacy, I'll give them story.
Funny enough, I'm actually pretty happy about the gearing in the car. I do a lot of highway driving and take a lot of fairly meaty road trips, so being able to cruise along at low revs makes those drives a bit more enjoyable to me. My last GTA with 3.42 gearing could get sideways without missing a beat, but she'd also confidently chug a tank of gas at a frustrating rate when cruising at 120 km/h.
Parts wise, I've already found a fender, nose, GFX, and a few other small things. What's important right now is a hatch from a 91-92 with the correct T/A spoiler mounts, and a tan Firebird interior. Obviously I'd love a set of GTA's in there, but I'm perfectly fine with a nice set of base seats, as long as they're beechwood. If you guys come across a reasonably priced set that can be sent to Canada without costing a year's salary, let me know!
There you go! nice deal there I'd send pics to the proud owner of your former car and tell him how glad he was firm on his price- did you a favor!! this was meant to be
One of the first things I thought of when I finally saw this car haha. He missed out on the ONLY person who would over pay for his car, and now gets to sit on it until someone offers him a g note and he takes a hell of a bath
Put a 3;23 posi in. Gas is cheap! and when your friends shout out "light em up" you won't look like a fool when it struggles to smoke one wheel. Nice find Keats. This is probably the most solid third gen you have found. looking forward to seeing you getting her back in shape.
as long as they're beechwood. If you guys come across a reasonably priced set that can be sent to Canada without costing a year's salary, let me know!
If you want to drive to Jersey I have an entire Beechwood interior I would sell you, inexpensively. Even have a couple of 91/91 hatches with the proper clips, there's one on my formula that I will be swapping out since I am going to put a non-defrost glass on the car, the deck is that color green too
If you want to drive to Jersey I have an entire Beechwood interior I would sell you, inexpensively. Even have a couple of 91/91 hatches with the proper clips, there's one on my formula that I will be swapping out since I am going to put a non-defrost glass on the car, the deck is that color green too
Where'd you find a 91/92 hatch without defrost? Got an extra decklid with 91-92 aero wing holes in it? Nevermind, I don't actually want to work on my project, and I just ordered $100 worth of parts I won't need until I am putting the engine in....
Anyway... from 2.73 to 3.23 gears doesn't impact the RPM and MPG nearly as much as you'd think. If you keep your foot out of it, it's a bigger difference. Every thirdgen I've ever owned got approximately the same average combined mileage by the time I factored in my lead foot, trying to keep up with traffic, and how hard I had to push the pedal through the floorboard to feel alive. Gears just make it easier. Right up until you decide that you need 3.73s with a 700R4 or 4.10s, or something else obviously stupid, then your gas mileage goes to hell, driveability goes out the window, and performance goes down because you've pushed the torque curve out of TPI's happy range. Otherwise, I got well over 20mpg with my Qjet 305 with 3.08s on the highway, same with my 3.23 L98 Formula. My 3.1L 91 Firebird was a little better on the highway, but around town the mileage was the same or worse than my Formula. The only time I've really seen a big improvement in gas mileage was my 2.3L Mustang, with the 4spd manual trans, 1bbl carb, and 2.73 gears I could get deep into the 40+mpg range, but it was also a real dog to drive. Gas mileage was down to mid 20's with the EFI turbo setup. Now with 3.55s and a pile of mods, I'd expect MPG is still pretty decent if I could keep my foot out of it, but burning the tires off of it is more fun. </rambling> Point is you get the gas mileage your self (foot) control gives you. As long as you don't go full retard, you probably won't notice a huge impact on fuel economy in mixed driving. If you want 50mpg buy a Geo Metro or a Prius or whatever the hyper mile crowd is driving these days.
Where'd you find a 91/92 hatch without defrost? Got an extra decklid with 91-92 aero wing holes in it? Nevermind, I don't actually want to work on my project, and I just ordered $100 worth of parts I won't need until I am putting the engine in....
It was accidental, came from an AZ car with the proper holes for the aero wing too!
If you want to drive to Jersey I have an entire Beechwood interior I would sell you, inexpensively. Even have a couple of 91/91 hatches with the proper clips, there's one on my formula that I will be swapping out since I am going to put a non-defrost glass on the car, the deck is that color green too
NJ is “only” 7 hours from me so yes I absolutely would make the drive. Can you post or pm me some pictures?
Where'd you find a 91/92 hatch without defrost? Got an extra decklid with 91-92 aero wing holes in it? Nevermind, I don't actually want to work on my project, and I just ordered $100 worth of parts I won't need until I am putting the engine in....
Anyway... from 2.73 to 3.23 gears doesn't impact the RPM and MPG nearly as much as you'd think. If you keep your foot out of it, it's a bigger difference. Every thirdgen I've ever owned got approximately the same average combined mileage by the time I factored in my lead foot, trying to keep up with traffic, and how hard I had to push the pedal through the floorboard to feel alive. Gears just make it easier. Right up until you decide that you need 3.73s with a 700R4 or 4.10s, or something else obviously stupid, then your gas mileage goes to hell, driveability goes out the window, and performance goes down because you've pushed the torque curve out of TPI's happy range. Otherwise, I got well over 20mpg with my Qjet 305 with 3.08s on the highway, same with my 3.23 L98 Formula. My 3.1L 91 Firebird was a little better on the highway, but around town the mileage was the same or worse than my Formula. The only time I've really seen a big improvement in gas mileage was my 2.3L Mustang, with the 4spd manual trans, 1bbl carb, and 2.73 gears I could get deep into the 40+mpg range, but it was also a real dog to drive. Gas mileage was down to mid 20's with the EFI turbo setup. Now with 3.55s and a pile of mods, I'd expect MPG is still pretty decent if I could keep my foot out of it, but burning the tires off of it is more fun. </rambling> Point is you get the gas mileage your self (foot) control gives you. As long as you don't go full retard, you probably won't notice a huge impact on fuel economy in mixed driving. If you want 50mpg buy a Geo Metro or a Prius or whatever the hyper mile crowd is driving these days.
Really my post was an attempt to justify keeping down hill gears in the car instead of immediately hunting down something geared to actually haul a bit of ***. Speaking of hauling, the car left a pretty impressive set of parallel tracks through the underground when I brought the car out earlier, so for now, I guess I’ll be okay
Yep, the 2.77s in my 86 T/A would turn the rears over pretty easily, and chirp the 2nd gear shift. I'd still keep my ear to the ground for a 3.23, or 3.42 rear, maybe even the 9-bolt equivalents.
After all the hype, I present to you, well.. this thing. Know when that girl’s a 10 in a dim bar, but then the next morning when the light hits her, you just don’t really want anyone to know what happened? This car’s giving me those vibes. In her defence, she’s FILTHY, and everything important is awesome. Paint, body, mechanical, fantastic, minus the obvious damage. She just looks like she’s going to ask you for 3 smokes in return for some ball cradling behind a Harveys dumpster.
Maiden voyage started well. Put a battery in, air in the tires, and pedal to the metal immediately down the highway. Power was there, trans behaved as expected, alignment was horrible, suspension was rough and noisy. Then that rear tire absolutely exploded while doing 120. Towed it back to my shop, looked at it in disgust, then got some Buddy Burgers. At least now I have something to occupy my endless Covid free time.
Realistically, I’m still in great shape too. I barely paid anything for a 120K car with no rust, and that WOULD have made the drive home if the tire didn’t call it quits. The original spoiler is attached to the original hatch panel in the trunk too, but it doesn’t have glass. Looking at it, it seems pretty straight forward to simply switch the glass from the current hatch on to the original green panel, no?
Thanks fellas, I appreciate the positive responses! At the end of the day, a 305 is a 305 when it has an automatic behind it, so I'm not too worried about it. I can take a car from work when I need to go fast, so I really only care that A: it's a TPI, and B: it's healthy and only has 123,000km on it. As for the GTA part, like I said, I really don't care as the car was still born a TPI T/A, not a base bird that got the clone treatment. To the few people who will ask about legitimacy, I'll give them story.
Funny enough, I'm actually pretty happy about the gearing in the car. I do a lot of highway driving and take a lot of fairly meaty road trips, so being able to cruise along at low revs makes those drives a bit more enjoyable to me. My last GTA with 3.42 gearing could get sideways without missing a beat, but she'd also confidently chug a tank of gas at a frustrating rate when cruising at 120 km/h.
Parts wise, I've already found a fender, nose, GFX, and a few other small things. What's important right now is a hatch from a 91-92 with the correct T/A spoiler mounts, and a tan Firebird interior. Obviously I'd love a set of GTA's in there, but I'm perfectly fine with a nice set of base seats, as long as they're beechwood. If you guys come across a reasonably priced set that can be sent to Canada without costing a year's salary, let me know!
check FB Robert Romanowski is big seller in Chicago area he would likely have the hatch/trunklid he wont ship with glass but may remove and sell trunk lid ? or another member modified his trunk lid to mount Aero spoiler HERE starts around post 157 I thought well done
check FB Robert Romanowski is big seller in Chicago area he would likely have the hatch/trunklid he wont ship with glass but may remove and sell trunk lid ? or another member modified his trunk lid to mount Aero spoiler HERE starts around post 157 I thought well done
I didn't realize but the original spoiler that's stuffed in the trunk all broken is actually still attached to the original hatch metal. When I get a chance, I'm going to try and see if the hatch glass itself can just unbolt and be transferred to the original hatch panel. Do you know if it's possible??
Pretty sure it's a close relative of windshield urethane. When it gets old and dry, like the car was 5 years old, it doesn't grab so well. Any modern windshield adhesive is probably an upgrade, but the service manual probably lists the 1991 3M product used.
I'm going to be doing this hatch swap later this week and I will update both of my build threads with pics. had taken wed-fri off for a now cancelled Pate swap meet in Texas its the big on in Dallas area, so more Car time
Edit: I'll be using urethane on my cars I figure it'll help resist support arms slowly pushing it back out of alignment as they do over time
Pretty sure it's a close relative of windshield urethane. When it gets old and dry, like the car was 5 years old, it doesn't grab so well. Any modern windshield adhesive is probably an upgrade, but the service manual probably lists the 1991 3M product used.
It's that dum dum stuff. it's on the back of the washers for sealing. It "never dries out", but when it gets old it acts like adhesive.
Here are a few pics that I just snapped of the ol' girl. Still looks like hell but how nice are those wheel wells? The glass is from the hatch exploding, and there's garbage and stuff everywhere in the back, but the metal is what I like to see. Both sides are rust free, and the bottom floor part of the trunk valley is immaculate as well. I still haven't gotten the car up in the air and it's too low to crawl underneath, but I took a video on my phone and from what I can see it's spotless underneath. No real updates on anything other than the driver door now being able to open, thanks to a crow bar of course. My tires are actually 14 years old so I'm sourcing a decent set to get the job done for now, waiting for a chance to pick up my replacement body panels, and working on getting everything I need to get a tan interior back in. My next small projects will be pulling the passenger door panel as my mirror is loose, tightening up the hanging head liner (which is new and is hanging from the board itself, not the fabric), and gutting the whole interior so I can assess the metal underneath everything, and dispose of the junk interior stuff that I don't want in there. I'll keep the updates flowing as I chip away at what seems to be an infinite to-do list
Finally got her in for a bath and it of course made a world of difference. Paint looks fantastic and that's just with a quick basic soap and water job. The car was FILTHY and had a really thick layer of garage dirt on it, is that what I'm feeling in the paint? It doesn't feel very smooth when you run your hand along it, but the paint itself looks great. I still have some heavy deep cleaning to do over this weekend, but for now I'm pretty happy with how things are looking.
The real home run though, is that this car looks even better underneath than I hoped it would. It's lowered and has definitely kissed a few speed bumps, but there is not a spec of rust to be found. Inner wheel wells, firewall, rear frame sections, floors, everything is 100% spotless. I pulled the carpet up and the floors don't even have surface rust starting. Still green as green can be. She may be a bit ugly in her current state, but I couldn't be happier with the starting point that I have.
Also, maybe it's just been a while, but I certainly don't remember 2.73's being this snappy. The car gets sideways without even thinking about it. Even without breaking traction, she gets up and moves like my 3.42 GTA did. Rear end may have been swapped, or maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but I'm happy regardless.
Another awesome little scoop is this brand new, never installed nose that I picked up for $100 yesterday. I'm going to be testing the fitment tomorrow, which I'm nervous about, but it certainly can't be any worse than the crushed one on there now.
The real home run though, is that this car looks even better underneath than I hoped it would. It's lowered and has definitely kissed a few speed bumps, but there is not a spec of rust to be found. Inner wheel wells, firewall, rear frame sections, floors, everything is 100% spotless. I pulled the carpet up and the floors don't even have surface rust starting. Still green as green can be. She may be a bit ugly in her current state, but I couldn't be happier with the starting point that I have.
Also, maybe it's just been a while, but I certainly don't remember 2.73's being this snappy. The car gets sideways without even thinking about it. Even without breaking traction, she gets up and moves like my 3.42 GTA did. Rear end may have been swapped, or maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but I'm happy regardless.
If you still have it in the air you can mark the rear tire and driveshaft. Rotate the tire 1 revolution (360) and count the driveshaft revolutions and that is your rear gear ratio.
The real home run though, is that this car looks even better underneath than I hoped it would. It's lowered and has definitely kissed a few speed bumps, but there is not a spec of rust to be found. Inner wheel wells, firewall, rear frame sections, floors, everything is 100% spotless. I pulled the carpet up and the floors don't even have surface rust starting. Still green as green can be. She may be a bit ugly in her current state, but I couldn't be happier with the starting point that I have.
Also, maybe it's just been a while, but I certainly don't remember 2.73's being this snappy. The car gets sideways without even thinking about it. Even without breaking traction, she gets up and moves like my 3.42 GTA did. Rear end may have been swapped, or maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but I'm happy regardless.
That is amazingly nice condition underneath for a northern car. Really looks like you have a nice foundation there.
If you still have it in the air you can mark the rear tire and driveshaft. Rotate the tire 1 revolution (360) and count the driveshaft revolutions and that is your rear gear ratio.
Unfortunately it's already off but that would have been a good call. I'll be putting it back up soon for brakes a diff service so I'll do that then and see. Thanks for the method!
That is amazingly nice condition underneath for a northern car. Really looks like you have a nice foundation there.
Thank you! After the surprise that came with my last black 86', I was more than pleased with how this car looks. Eventually I'll get under it and sand / paint the areas that are scraped up. I imagine it's pretty straight forward to pop out the dents in the floors as well. Definitely thrilled with the total absence of rust though.
The real home run though, is that this car looks even better underneath than I hoped it would. It's lowered and has definitely kissed a few speed bumps, but there is not a spec of rust to be found. Inner wheel wells, firewall, rear frame sections, floors, everything is 100% spotless. I pulled the carpet up and the floors don't even have surface rust starting. Still green as green can be. She may be a bit ugly in her current state, but I couldn't be happier with the starting point that I have.
Also, maybe it's just been a while, but I certainly don't remember 2.73's being this snappy. The car gets sideways without even thinking about it. Even without breaking traction, she gets up and moves like my 3.42 GTA did. Rear end may have been swapped, or maybe I'm just being too optimistic, but I'm happy regardless.
It may have been swapped. First mod I did to my '88 GT Mustang,(Back in '88) was to swap out the highway gears to 3:55's with an Eaton trac-loc posi. Iirc, you can jack up the rear to get the tires off the ground, put the trans in neutral, mark the tire at the "top", and make a mark on the driveshaft. Turn the tire forward two turns, and see if the driveshaft went around 73 times. If it's a lot less than 73, then take the tire one more time around and see if it's 42.
Been a long time since I have used this trick, but it should work.
DR.K.
Meh... Screw all that counting noise. Get a couple qts of gear oil, dump the diff, and turn the ring gear while watching for the markings. Right on the edge it'll either be stamped with the exact ratio, or it'll have the tooth counts stamped on it. XX:XX divide the numbers and you'll get the exact ratio. "But Drew, I don't want to mess with the gear oil it's smelly and dirty", well so is getting under the car and turning a tire, and the gear oil needs to be changed if you've haven't done it already, anyway.
Beg, borrow, or steal a pair of HO manifolds and N10 cat assembly, replace the rest of the exhaust with 3", and make sure the gears are 3.23 or better, and it should be plenty peppy. Late 305 auto cars got the TBI manifolds, single cat, and lazy gears, which makes them drive like slugs next to a N10 car.
So I drove the car home a few days ago and noticed a few things. While doing around 110-120 on the highway, the engine light came on for about 5 minutes then went away with no actual change from the car. Assuming it was just a misfire, and maybe it's time for a tune up? Didn't get a chance to pull any stored codes, so we'll leave that for now. I also noticed that she cooks a bit of oil. First start, then some revs in the driveway, and I'm getting blue clouds though not too heavy. Driving down the street after it's warm I didn't notice anything, so I'm hoping that it's just the classic valve seals that are tired out and not rings. Otherwise, the car actually drove really well! No pulls or shaking, no clunks, nothing. The car's been lowered and the bump stops on the rear end are huge so I have about 1.5in of travel until they hit, so that's a small project I'll get to when the weather warms up again.
Cosmetic wise, I gutted the interior down to a dash and a driver seat and took if for a thorough cleaning because of all the broken glass and what not hidden under the carpet. Then I discovered that I had almost an entire set of spare tan plastics from my old GTA, so I swapped all of the black stuff out and ended up with a pretty good looking interior. Scooter (member) has a full beechwood Formula interior for me that I'll be getting from him as soon as the borders open, and though it needs a few things and a good bath, it has a driver side cup holder!! Super excited.
A question for those who have removed a 91 spoiler. How tf do you remove the black tar stuff that is around the bolts? I was chipping at it with a flat head but my god it's tough to actually puncture, and there's a LOT of it. I'm trying to mount the old green hatch panel to my current glass, but I don't want to do it with a mangled spoiler attached.
A question for those who have removed a 91 spoiler. How tf do you remove the black tar stuff that is around the bolts? I was chipping at it with a flat head but my god it's tough to actually puncture, and there's a LOT of it. I'm trying to mount the old green hatch panel to my current glass, but I don't want to do it with a mangled spoiler attached.
The CEL while cruising on the highway at steady speed/goes away with no adverse effect on performance is more than likely code 32 and there is a good write up in the how-to section here. Pretty harmless but annoying if CEL light drives you crazy, my guess is your EGR temp sensor mounted on the EGR itself if it has one is bad or maybe the EGR solenoid. Only knock is getting a new replacement of either is you have to get the Corvette version ($55ish, same part but shorter wire on temp sensor) because the F body one is no longer in production but they are available on eBay IIRC. Could also just delete the whole EGR system and call it a day and get a new PROM with it deleted as well.
The CEL while cruising on the highway at steady speed/goes away with no adverse effect on performance is more than likely code 32 and there is a good write up in the how-to section here. Pretty harmless but annoying if CEL light drives you crazy, my guess is your EGR temp sensor mounted on the EGR itself if it has one is bad or maybe the EGR solenoid. Only knock is getting a new replacement of either is you have to get the Corvette version ($55ish, same part but shorter wire on temp sensor) because the F body one is no longer in production but they are available on eBay IIRC. Could also just delete the whole EGR system and call it a day and get a new PROM with it deleted as well.
That makes sense actually. I've gotten it a few times on my previous TPI's and remember it being code 32. I like keeping things stock so when I do get around to tracing the issue, I'll just replace whatever's getting tired. As long as it doesn't get worse and start having an effect on driveability, it isn't very high on my to-do list right now
A question for those who have removed a 91 spoiler. How tf do you remove the black tar stuff that is around the bolts? I was chipping at it with a flat head but my god it's tough to actually puncture, and there's a LOT of it. I'm trying to mount the old green hatch panel to my current glass, but I don't want to do it with a mangled spoiler attached.
when you unbolt the trunk support you will probably need a good putty knife and start scraping the "Butyl" rubber or at least thats what I thought it was try not to remove the paint my 90 did have some urethane at the ends where the diamond plastic trim that seals to the big rubber hatch seal. when you get it as scraped off as you can I used lacquer thinner and shop towels to get it to clean paint. when I test fit mine both were almost as far forward as the glass holes would allow it really was easier than I thought
04-21-2020, 03:37 PM
