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So I thought all was lost last year, front end collision, lower engine noise after an oil change... Out of pure sadness I parked her and tried not thinking about her for fear of crying. Fast forward to this year and the abundance of knowledge and assistance received while taking a beater from the JY to roadworthy I decided to pull her out and wipe her off. This car has a far more solid undercarriage, no damage, very very little rust and now that the lower engine noise actually turned out to be a busted FlyWheel / Starter dust cover tapping super loud I'm quite happy I didn't drive the **** out of it like I thought. Looks like she's still got a bit of life left in her. Allow me to reintroduce... My # 1
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; 08-11-2019 at 01:58 PM.
Fired this car up, took it for a drive yesterday, it ran good. The concern... faint white smoke from the exhaust. Not like billowing where you can't see through it, but it's enough to see and it smells STRONG. I was told once it smelled lean but I don't know what that smells like. Here are a few observations...
- Pulled dipstick, oil level correct, It's not an oil milkshake.
- Removed radiator cap, coolant full and not any abnormal color or consistency.
- It's always worse on the 1st startup of the day.
- The exhaust smell is strong, with or without the faint smoke, like wear a gas mask strong.
- I've always had to top off the radiator / overflow but never noticed any visible leaks.
- Today I noticed the upper and lower rad hoses still felt pressurized and I saw coolant dripping from the upper hose at the stat housing and coolant dripping down the back of the lower rad hose onto the ground and I haven't driven it all day. EDIT:Radiator cap was installed wrong. There's an arrow on the cap and direction to line it up with the vent hole... did this, system depressurizes now.
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; 08-11-2019 at 02:15 PM.
- Took radiator cap off, started the car. I saw no sloshy bubbles as it ran, coolant looked like it was "flowing".
- Tried smelling the exhaust to see if it smelled sweet... sure doesn't smell like candy to me.
- The faint smoke wasn't as noticeable on on 1st start up this morning, while researching on and off TGO I read a clogged cat causing similar situation so I tapped the mf w/ a rubber mallet and BOOM the faint white smoke was a little more pronounced.
Maybe bad injectors? Mine used to do the same thing and started to lose power over the last year. Swapped the injectors for a new set from South Bay Fuel Injectors, and the white smoke is gone.
Your car was parked for a year, so they could have gummed up. At 27+ years old, it is worth the $ to replace them.
Maybe bad injectors? Mine used to do the same thing and started to lose power over the last year. Swapped the injectors for a new set from South Bay Fuel Injectors, and the white smoke is gone.
Your car was parked for a year, so they could have gummed up. At 27+ years old, it is worth the $ to replace them.
Maybe? I did have a code 44 last year but this year no SES lights. To the naked eye, it almost looks like the driver side injector sprays a bit harder than the passenger side. 3 sets of 350 tbi injectors, 1 set of 4.3 tbi injectors AND 0 extra sets of 305 tbi injectors for testing. Checked SBFI and I think they only offer mail in service on GM tbi injectors, I couldn't find any for sale.
Tbi injectors don’t usually fail. If they do it’s the spray pattern that’s effected and the injector drips.
If you do end up doing injectors look at what rock auto has to offer in standard motor products.
no coolant loss just the white smoke, does it smell like fuel or oil ?
Does the smoke ever clear up ?
I would start with pcv valve and maybe valve guide seals if it clears up when the engine is warm.
sounds like you have thoroughly gone through cooling system testing for internal leaks.
For the most part it's so faint it's unnoticeable. It's visible from time to time at the first start and while idling. The engine was warm when I blipped the throttle and saw it clearly.
A side note, the very very first time I started it this season it was like a smokeout but now it's just annoying faint white smoke that's more pronounced when applying throttle.
Have you had a valve cover off yet? There’s oil drain holes in the head and if there’s sludge it can clog them up and leave oil standing in the head and it eventually leaks down through the valve. I had this issue on my last small block. Probably not your fix but worth a shot.
Google “clogged oil drain back holes” and I’m sure stuff will pop up
Not steam. Just ran it to operating temp and when I blip the throttle it's worse, but not thick white smoke...
A check of the general health of your engine will be required.
You didn't mention coolant being consumed, but even a tiny head gasket leak into a combustion chamber will cause smoking exhaust. Additionally, such a leak doesn't always show up as bubbles in the coolant in the radiator. Small blocks don't generally have head or block cracking problems, but they can and do occur occasionally. If a pressure test of the system proves OK, test the coolant for combustion gasses. You can get a test kit at NAPA or other auto parts outlets. If this tests OK, look further.
With the engine thoroughly warmed up, find an open road and accelerate hard; if you see smoke, the rings are suspect. Find a long hill; get up to speed, descend down the hill, then back off the throttle and let the engine slow the car. This causes a high vacuum condition in the engine; if you see smoke now, it's oil being pulled past leaking valve seals.
If none of the above is definitive, you'll need to dig deeper, with a compression test followed by a leakdown test. The leakdown requires some special equipment and an air compressor.
One or more of the above tests will lead you to the problem, or at least eliminate most of the possibilities.
After sitting all night this morning I checked coolant, no loss. Radiator still full, overflow bottle still at cold fill line and system de-pressurized as it should.
Doesn't bliping the throttle, holding it for a second or two simulate hard acceleration? *If* so it smokes under that condition...
The TBI's will run pretty rich if everything isn't right, and the 305's do tend to have some valve seal bypassing. Old fuel can throw off the 02 sensor. Also if the Throttle body is leaking and dripping into the intake. I've only ever had the TBI injectors fail in that they wouldn't spray at start up.
After sitting all night this morning I checked coolant, no loss. Radiator still full, overflow bottle still at cold fill line and system de-pressurized as it should.
Again, just a tiny amount of coolant getting into a cylinder will cause some smoke, and may not cause a noticeable drop in coolant level except after a possibly long period of time.
Doesn't bliping the throttle, holding it for a second or two simulate hard acceleration?
No; that doesn't put a load on the engine. The only way to do that is to drive the car on the road (or put it on a chassis dyno). Worn pistons (and rings) show their true colors when loaded hard; the pistons will try to 'rock' in the cylinders, causing loss of sealing due to wear.
It's difficult to direct you to the exact cause of your issue over the interwebz, but if I were you, I'd go directly to a compression test, and then follow that with a leakdown test. The leakdown will pinpoint any loss of compression seal in the cylinder(s).
All this talk of rings and seals led me to a $4 test... Rislone Ring Seal Smoke Repair. Poured in the entire bottle last night, let it idle on and off for 5-10 minute intervals and the only change I noticed was more smoke. When blipping the throttle, I could even see a puff of smoke come from what looked like the back half of the engine bay, driverside area before it came a flowing out the tail pipes.
Fired up the car this morning and it smoked like a chimney, HOWEVER, I drove the car (as advised on the rislone label) and guess what... NO MORE SMOKE. No faint smoke at startup, no smoke period when accelerating hard on the highway, and the exhaust actually smelled like just exhaust for once. If this holds up, they might want to market this stuff as magic in a bottle.
Doesn't really answer anything, that stuff will clog up head gasket leaked, valve seals, and thicken up the oil so it doesn't bypass the rings. Only hiding the problem. Basically you now know the issue is internal to the engine, but not where. A leak down test could of told you where it was leaking. Listen at tail pipe, intake, and look for bubbles in the radiator. As well as which side.
It will come back and worse if it's a head gasket, if it's rings you will have to use the additive every oil change.
Best advice at this point is to open a savings account and start saving for a rebuild, luckily reman stock engines are cheap for these cars and can be swapped in a day.
All this talk of rings and seals led me to a $4 test... Rislone Ring Seal Smoke Repair. Poured in the entire bottle last night, let it idle on and off for 5-10 minute intervals and the only change I noticed was more smoke. When blipping the throttle, I could even see a puff of smoke come from what looked like the back half of the engine bay, driverside area before it came a flowing out the tail pipes.
Fired up the car this morning and it smoked like a chimney, HOWEVER, I drove the car (as advised on the rislone label) and guess what... NO MORE SMOKE. No faint smoke at startup, no smoke period when accelerating hard on the highway, and the exhaust actually smelled like just exhaust for once. If this holds up, they might want to market this stuff as magic in a bottle.
Doesn't really answer anything, that stuff will clog up head gasket leaked, valve seals, and thicken up the oil so it doesn't bypass the rings. Only hiding the problem. Basically you now know the issue is internal to the engine, but not where. A leak down test could of told you where it was leaking. Listen at tail pipe, intake, and look for bubbles in the radiator. As well as which side.
It will come back and worse if it's a head gasket, if it's rings you will have to use the additive every oil change.
Best advice at this point is to open a savings account and start saving for a rebuild, luckily reman stock engines are cheap for these cars and can be swapped in a day.
The Rislone was just a $4 test.
Now that I've used it the compression/leakdown test won't work? Or won't be accurate?
Now that I've used it the compression/leakdown test won't work? Or won't be accurate?
It works by temporarily clogging leaks and will effect leak down or compression tests. Wait until the smoke comes back to do those. You can pull the spark plugs and look for signs.
Fix in a can is good for getting a car home, hiding a problem to sell the car (don't do that is bad mojo), but not something to do to a long term project.
.......... and then you remembered I'm a noob, who has never built or repaired any cars before now and am bound to learn some hard lessons. I take it I shouldn't have tried a shortcut, I recognize that.... now breathe
Originally Posted by Aviator857
It works by temporarily clogging leaks and will effect leak down or compression tests. Wait until the smoke comes back to do those. You can pull the spark plugs and look for signs.
Fix in a can is good for getting a car home, hiding a problem to sell the car (don't do that is bad mojo), but not something to do to a long term project.
They should probably write that on the label. I'll be due for an oil change soon, can it be flushed out at that time so I can do the compression and leakdown test?
Btw, I don't think i'd save for a 305 rebuild, I'd drive it till the 305 fell out and pay someone to put in a 350.
A stock style Goodwrench 350 is surprisingly cheap. And basically can be swapped with common tools with the addition of a hoist. I've done it in a day.
All said and done about $2k (plus labor if you pay someone) then you can start the mods. Assuming where you live isn't overly restrictive on emissions.
Whoa, how time flies. Brought this one out while troubleshooting my IROC-Z and as fast as I brought it out... I parked the mf. Before even starting her up, blew all the cobwebs out, checked radiator, coolant still green and full, overflow... EMPTY. Checked the Oil, reading was a solid 1in or so above the operating range...hmmm that $4 test was a long run bad idea. Went underneath, started a drain/check level cycle. Got the oil about half way on the marked area of the dipstick, connected the freshly charged battery and fired her up. She ran, she smoked, oil gauge stuck on 60, exhaust smell... I definitely wouldn't be standing behind the car, 1st acceleration, smokeout.
Since it was running, I ran to grab a pizza LOL, near crisis. Gas pedal was so dang stiff I need to know if it can be lubed, it had varying levels of smoke from faint to pronounced and clearly visible. Grabbed a tall can of Arizona, tossed it in the passenger window, my luck, it hit the stud the seat is mounted to, burst and Tea started spraying everywhere under the dash, etc while the car was running. Went to the gas station about 700ft away to get cleaned up, left the car running... I look up and BOOM, no more INFL (Airbag Disabled, Grant Wheel installed) light in the dash, and I can't even describe the drivability, I started praying. I made it home in what I now believe to be "limp mode" and parked it. Came out the next morning, started her, the INFL light was back on, immediately moved her to the rear and pulled the IROC back out. BEFORE I even attempt to drive this one again, I'm going to need a hand with the following things...
1) Proper Oil fill level vs Oil Pump psi. Per the GMSM anything in the 20-60psi range is ok, but if I drained enough Oil to bring the level on the dipstick down to mid way in Operating Range should the dash gauge have been reading in the middle? Or the Oil Level doesn't relate to the Oil Pumps Psi?
2) DANG vanishing coolant. The radiator never looses coolant, the only visible leak is at the lower radiator hose and only after running. By leak, I do mean it drips to a small puddle. If I were to describe it in layman terms I'd think the system is pressurized and pressure is forcing coolant out of a any poorly sealed areas. After rereading this thread again a few avenues such as the lower radiator hose and exhaust ports of the engine have been mentioned. Where is this exhaust port and how do I keep coolant from getting in there?
After getting the Z back on the road, wanted to focus on this one a bit. Last week made a dumbass mistake, forgot to click the cooling fan toggle switch... got stuck on a call at work... neighbor ends up knocking on the door... "Hey, your car is smoking". I rush out to a coolant volcano! Overflow just a boiling over, smoke everywhere. Shut it off, waited a while, cleaned up. Fast forward a few days, grabbed a gallon of 50/50 and began to fill her back up. Got up to full, started her up and let her run for a while... Cooling Fan Switch ON from go... no prob. Came out today to the vanishing coolant but the ground is visibly wet. The only leak I saw was from the backside of the lower radiator hose, so previously I ordered a new one but haven't installed it. Even jacked up the car, checked with a light and 0 coolant in the tray where the radiator sits, it's bone dry, the drip from the lower radiator hose is noticeably faster so I decided to hit TGO for more research. I found a thread titled Engine coolant disappearing with no leaksand I was shocked
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
Single most common cause of that is the water pump... the weep hole leeeeeks onto the INSIDE of the pulley, it slings everywhere in a fine mist and disappears. Sometimes you see a trace running down the INSIDE surface of the lower rad hose and MAYBE drips once in awhile.
Next most common is intake gaskets.
It is virtually NEVER a head gasket. Put that out of your mind until all else is eliminated.
All 17 bolts in each head go into coolant. All 17.
Needless to say... I've ordered a new water pump & I'm pricing a Intake gasket JUST IN CASE and one of those pressure testers praying it's just a neglected water pump and nothing worse.
Water pump came in, installed it, filled radiator & overflow back up. Thank goodness the leak to ground is gone but HUGE problem found when running. The top radiator hose goes to MAXXXXXXX pressure like the cap isn't venting into overflow. Ordered a new 16lb one no prob. It came today same issue, only difference is this cap has the red safety lever so if I lift it a tad the pressure drops... Could my radiator be clogged or shot? Was there a special way I was supposed to do the refill & 1st start?!?
Issue # 2, yes it's an emergency for me... DANG Hatch Motor took a crap. Clicked the switch in the console... nothing, went and opened it with the key. Normally I can get it to close pushing this little hidden lever but not it's flat DOA. I checked and have 14V+ at the orange wire going into the motor and same voltage at the 1st pin on output connector going to the latch piece that moves up and catches the trunk lid but 0 operation. Are there any test I'm missing? Are they the same part all of 82-92 or 90-92 specific because what I'm finding online looks nothing like the old part on this 1992.
Pulled the whole assembly this morning degreased/cleaned a little and disassembled into 3 parts, motor, solenoid thing, mounting plate w/ lifting latch. I cleaned the solenoid thing with plastics safe electronics cleaner. As shown in the pic I was shocked to find some bare wires, but I tapped them while troubleshooting last night.
the reason I'm highly confused is because all replacement motors come with this giant plastic housing that doesn't look like my original. Unless all you do is remove the plastic housing, and just use the actual motor? I really wish someone would chime in because I keep going into these crisis's blind and I'd hate to buy a new motor, remove the housing and F the whole thing up.
With no guidance or advice, started ordering parts & hitting YT for anything ThirdGen Hatch Pulldown related. Right after I ordered a new motor and reverse lever... I happened to come across a video of a gent whom pushed the trunk release and got nothing, same as me. I heard and read and observed this small relay in the trunk and it never clicks like it used to. He said he jumped the gun and replaced the relay only to have the same problem. Then the gent went into checking for voltage and continuity at the switch and boom the switch was dead. I run out this morning with the DMM, get 13.6V at the switch terminals but when checking for continuity I get nothing. I checked the DMM and when the leads touch it beeps, but when I push the hatch release no beep. Now I find the dang switch is $65. My question becomes if the switch is dead, and it could be opened using the key but motor never lifted so it couldn't be closed why didn't the motor lift the lock assembly? I have 13.6V at the connector plugging into the motor., why is the reverse lever not activating the motor at all? Is it the switch the energizes the whole circuit?
Just like that I worked myself into a JAM. Looking at the GMSM I went in the trunk, pulled the "extended relay" and the terminals had corrosion all over so I sprayed with the CRC and gave it a lite wire brushing. Long story short... loss battery voltage at the Red Wire. GMSM says Bat Voltage on CKT 138 (Red w/ Wht Stripe Wire) from Lid Fuse at all times... lid fuse is not blown, neither is ACC fuse.
Question: The Hatch Release for a 1990, with the 91-92 pulldown assembly are there 2 relays or 1?!? I only find what defined as Extended Relay and the schematic has both a Hatch Release Relay & Extended Relay. If there's 2... where's the other one?!?!?
Kicker: I used a Bench PSU..12V... jumper'ed the Pos/Gnd terminal on the Old Motor and BY GOSH it works. So I'm going to return this one I ordered, and put the whole thing back together. If I can get Battery Voltage back on CKT 138 Red w/ Wht Stripe I can start troubleshooting from sq1 THE RIGHT WAY...
Oh boy. Wish I could help you with this, but I think the later years are a little different design than what I have. And when mine failed, it was a little more straight forward.
I got Battery Voltage back!!!! It should be CLEARLY noted lol in the GMSM that CKT 138 is a SHARED power source with the trunk light bub as the PRIMARY source. A few post back I mentioned clipping off the pigtail for that light bulb because it had frayed and bare wire spots, not realizing its true importance. As soon as I clipped off the bad area of wire and reinstalled that light bulb pigtail BOOM 12.76V back at the pull down harness connector .
So while I'm back at sq1, and happy about it in my opinion it leaves 2 options. First up being the switch in the car, since its job is to supply the ground path and it's confirmed battery voltage is present. Second is a 50/50 split on the Relay or the Connector Switch Assembly, since when 12V is applied manually to the motor... the old motor works. The relay is $6 I'll get one to be safe but the odd thing is I have 12V coming into and going out of the Connector Switch Assembly leading me to think if the relay is always energized with battery voltage present all that's missing is the ground path provided by the switch to complete the circuit? My goodness troubleshooting this should be easier.
Good news, it's NOT the $65 switch, it's NOT the $7 Extended Relay, and it's NOT the old motor. A little logic set in, I pulled the switch and tested it in my IROC, CLICK it activated the already stuck open hatch lock. I heard there's a relay in the center console area so I moved my shifter plate out of the way just a bit and found the blasted brown wire has some red wire tapped into it but not connected to anything. furthermore I never found a dang primary relay down there. Do the seats / center console have to be physically removed for access? The only parts I haven't replaced would be this hidden relay and whatever the connector switch assembly is...
Well troubleshooting continued this morning, took the top off the center console, FOUND the hidden white 3 terminal relay wrapped in some foam stuck to the left side of this black box, that's to the left of the parking break. Found it's the same relay used for the horn, swapped them out, no dice. However with the console top off now I could hear both relays click when the button was pressed. Pulled the driver seat, traced harness wires from the trunk up to the relay & switch with no breaks, frays, or bare spots found. Last up on the list is the Connector Switch Assembly, and I'm beginning to wonder what the Parts Stores call it because I can't find it online under that name unless it's been discontinued?
Yep found GM Part # 16622774 (Connector Switch Assembly) better known as the Hatch Pulldown Reversing Switch online, has been discontinued since 2005. This is a MAJOR gut punch. I never find these cars at my local JY's anymore, don't know of any alternate cars one could be pulled from for testing and I don't feel like tossing more money at the car ordering online with no promises. My time and efforts are endless, my money sadly is not.
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; 08-23-2022 at 06:45 PM.
Sometimes READING is fundamental. Now that I've gone through all these hoops... I followed the GMSM Chart 2 troubleshooting guide. Step 1 rigged up my test light and with the Connector Switch Assembly removed but still connected to the harness at both ends and got no light at the terminals that connect to the motor when the button was pressed in the car. Step 2 was connecting the test light between Terminal A (Blk Ground Wire) & Terminal E (Red Wht Strpie Always hot wire) on the actual connector and I got light!!!
Bad news lol is I've ripped half the car apart chasing down this issue and the GMSM only gives 2 solutions #1 being a poor connection or 2 replace the dang doohickey,
Last edited by 92RS-HeritageEd; 08-17-2022 at 06:17 PM.
Well Issue #1 from my 8/12 post was resolved. Bought this Spill Proof Funnel Kit and it took me about 3 tries but I finally correctly burped/bled the cooling system of air. So the new Water Pump, New Upper & Lower hoses, 160* T-Stat and a correctly bled cooling system = no more "Vanishing Coolant"! I watched it warm up a few times, saw the overflow fill, after shutoff and sit overnight it only goes from the full hot to the full cold line vs emptying the reservoir and being bone dry ea morning. The exhaust still has a smell of some kind so I'm not out of the woods but it also no longer smokes like a Brisket is on the smoker at the rear end lol at 1st startup, it's now faint and periodic more so when blip the throttle vs at idle.
I can finally get back to Issue #2 scouring the earth for this dang nowhere to be found discontinued Connector Switch Assembly (GM Part # 16622774). I drilled the rivets out of the old one, broke a cheap HFT bit in the process, about fouled up the whole spring reverse click lever trying to take it apart but could never get it all the way apart to see if there were contacts or traces that could be cleaned or repaired. I ended up cleaning what I could & just putting it back together... it was still lol DOA.
There's a member here parting out countless Firebirds. Would they not have what you need?
I was waiting to hear back from them via txt. I've found another seller on here, and we're working out some things now. I should have an update by week end. Thank you!
While waiting on some parts, skimmed back over the thread and found post #16 I believe that I hadn't considered... I hit google then found this other related thread Found Clogged oil drain back holes, help? where they found 3 of 4 completely clogged leading to smoke at startup & acceleration. I'm going to do an Oil Change in the morning, and wanted to tackle and clogged drain holes
Anyone have experience with this procedure? Maybe post a step-by-step for me please?
Knowing me, I dove right in and ran right into a problem. What "Oil Drain back holes"? Those giant holes between ea set of studs? Is the standing oil shown in the bottom pics a problem?
With not a peep from anyone on TGO, I found in a YT vid theses "Drain back holes" are 2 per head 1 at front & 1 at rear. Neither of which was clogged on the driver side. I checked visually & with a small brush. So I grabbed these new Chrome VC's off the shelf and slapped the driver side on. 1 issue, I destroyed the grommet the PCV valve goes in trying to get it out the old cover.
Now onto a MAJOR Issue... How in GOD'S NAME DO YOU REMOVE THE PASSENGER SIDE???? It feels like the top rear corner is lodged on something. Just shy of ripping it TF off, it's not coming off. It'll move, like the side closest to the the front of the engine I can lift easily... the rear.... nothing and I can't even fit a hand back there!
1.) I give up on the car totally. Having no helping hand, etc in my time of need is far to goddamn frustrating...
2.) I yet again pay someone to do something I could've done with a little help or simple guidance...
3.) I rip the bitch out, with total neglect for anything damaged in the process...
#2 seems most logical, but after busting my knuckle down to the white-meat with blood running I'm ****ing DONE.
All finished, took option 4, and went in and enjoyed a cigar. Came back out, ripped everything you can see on the passenger side OFF. FINALLY got the cover off only to find NO CLOGGED DRAIN HOLES. Finangled the new cover in place, put everything back. Now I can go grab a bite to eat, cut theses trees down for my pops and hit the parts store in search of a PCV Valve Grommet. I also found some chaffed/bare wires on the IAC valve pigtail so I'll order a new one but that hard vac line from the EGR solenoid to the Throttle Body... I'll try some epoxy for now and pray I still have the spare put up.
07-15-2019, 08:07 PM
There's an arrow on the cap and direction to line it up with the vent hole... did this, system depressurizes now.
extra sets of 305 tbi injectors for testing. Checked SBFI and I think they only offer mail in service on GM tbi injectors, I couldn't find any for sale. 
and I'd hate to buy a new motor, remove the housing and F the whole thing up. 
for that light bulb because it had frayed and bare wire spots, not realizing its true importance. As soon as I clipped off the bad area of wire and reinstalled that light bulb pigtail BOOM 12.76V back at the pull down harness connector 
provided by the switch to complete the circuit? My goodness troubleshooting this should be easier. 
