SWenholdIV

Hello all! Good to be here, lets get right to it.. I am the proud new owner of 1 1987 Camaro Iroc-Z. Unfortunately it's in pretty rough shape, but it has been through quite a bit in its life. Here's some pictures and then I'll give some history on the car.

As you can see, it'll need a good bit of body work done down the road..





There's some cracks in the ground effects..


idk who thought this would be a good idea but now I gotta fix it


some nice er..bondo alternative!

SWenholdIV

and just your standard rust areas..




apparently there's a leak..bad enough that it soaked through the seat too.


and don't even get me started on the red neck/trailer park/ghetto style wire job we have here


at least I can save the steering wheel..

SWenholdIV

the dash pad's gotta go though unfortunately..


AMAZINGLY enough the rpo code's are still in the car (assuming they're actually for this car). Hopefully I can get a reprint though because the arm rest itself is junk.


supposedly this is a 350..but I can't confirm it..the car originally came with a 305 (according to the rpo codes, vin, and the badges match for it) so we'll see..


Ok so the history with this car is it was bought, sold, and then stolen from the second owner. Of course the insurance company found it, but it was stripped. The guy bought it back but kept a good chunk of the change (I'm sure) and just piece-mealed the car back together with very little effort. Cut to two summers ago my dad bought it and just never had the time to treat her right, so when I sold my truck this year and needed a new project to keep me sane I bought it off him. hehe I can't wait to tear into it

SWenholdIV

I started tearing into it just a day after I got it, mainly to get the gauge cluster at least back to stock so I could have a good starting point. What had to happen first was I had to get an idea of what areas need work. So I took out the destroyed gauge housing that was in the car already..



and put in a good one that my dad had gotten while he had the car. After I swapped in the right speedometer it was ready to go in and everything went relatively smoothly. I started it up and this is what I got..



Now I know there's no input on the oil pressure gauge and the coolant temp gauge because genioso prior ran hard lines into the car to aftermarket gauges, so thats a no brainer. I need to figure out why my alternator is supposedly putting out 16-18 volts instead of only 14, but we'll wait and see what actually is the problem there. What the really interesting part is, is my tach is double at idle of what it actually is!! Now you say, well how can you tell? Well once again genioso prior managed to run a single splice from the stock WORKING rpm signal wire into the car to a ginormous hideous aftermarket drag tach (no offense to fans of those, they just aren't my style), which was actually decently reasonably reading a range of 800-1200 rpm. Just taking that wire & aftermarket tach out alone dropped the idle rpm reading temporarily to 1750, without any noticeable audio, visual, or physical changes in the engine. SO my thought there is the capacitors in the tach are bad, but we'll see what actually is to be found there as well.

I'll have to get pics of this tomorrow, but I also tore into another batch of wiring. At first I was a tad nervous about it because the connector looked like a professional piece. Eventually though after I followed the connections and noticed the wide array of actual wire sizes (really frekkin tiny to absolutely huge) I decided to go for it. Apparently, from what I can figure out, after the car was recovered the guy wanted to put in a quick alarm or something. I'd be surprised if it actually ever worked. Before he sold it to my dad I'm thinking he took out the actual control box which is where that main connector went, and left everything else in there. But now it's all out and everything's safe again. Well except for the coolant temp and oil pressure hard lines that are still there. Tuesday I'm hoping I can hit the parts stores and get new sending units and HOPEFULLY the connectors are still in the harness somewhere, as a very brief looksee turned up nothing. It's a wonder this car didn't go up in flames on the drive home 2 years ago...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Congrats and good luck!

waterboy87

Looks like a nice car. Good luck with the wiring!

SWenholdIV

Thanks guys, and as promised here's a pic of the wiring that simply HAD to come out yesterday for fear of my life being ended in vehicular flames. There's actually more too, somehow the alarm's volume box was hiding somewhere, and there was a literal spider web of super tiny red and black wires that just spun around and intertwined everything all to end up back at where it started..


On another note, can anybody tell me if there was a slight body line change in the thirdgen span of camaros? I'm of the opinion that the hood and driver's side fender are from a different car as the degree of decay matches each other but not the rest of the car. I'm also starting to wonder though whether they're from different years because while all the OTHER body lines match up, the top of the fender where it meets the door just will not match. here's pics..

Passenger's side CORRECT way:


and Driver's side, hopefully you can make out the little lift at the very top corner:


Again, all other body lines match, and yea its possible but I think it's unlikely its bent on accident because the hood matches it and I can't put it back with just careful firm pressure. Thoughts?

_MIKE_P

iTrader: (1)

Check the bottom mounting lip/bolt of the fender. It should be straight down, just like the pinch weld. On my Camaro like most others some genius put a jack under that lip and crushed it. This can be enough to tweak a fender a little out of place.

maroman88

nice starting point, how are the floors with all that water in there? u got ur work cut out for ya goodluck n keep at it!

SWenholdIV

I will do that, and yea I read about that being a lot of other people's problems. The one difference I see though is this is the only flaw, it's not like the entire fender is off kilter, or the door matches in front and not out back, or anything else that can come to mind. So that's the confusing part for me, but I'll get it somehow.

Honestly I don't know yet how exactly the floors are, all I can say at this point is I can slam my fist down on the carpet at the wet areas and it feels solid, so it's at least probably not rusted through. When I go to replace the carpet I'll know more of course, which yes HAS to happen. That mouse/amonia type smell is HORRIBLE!!

SWenholdIV

alright so I put a little bit more concerted thought into it yesterday and I realized the hood doesn't open really that easily. I mean it won't 'pop' up like it should. So I started messing with moving sheetmetal around again. Once I started doing that I realized yea the driver's side fender is straight with the door, but it's way inside of where it should be in relavence to the tire and the hood and all. So slowly but surely I unbolted things and pryed on this and pulled on that and eventually (after dark) I got things looking good in their rough locations.

Unfortunately I need to get some shims for my door though because now in order for the front to be perfect, the fenders are now outside of the doors! and yes I did end up fixing the original problem with the fender and the apillar lol. After I did all this though, I just happened to look at the window of my driver's side door, and at the very top its barely touching the weatherstripping! So apparently when somebody put this car back together they just threw everything together without really caring at all Oh btw yes my bottom fender mount lip is ok, amazingly!

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

all i can say is good luck. and post alot of pictures!!

SWenholdIV

Haha yea I can definitely do that!

Good news today, I found the leak that made the water spot under the back seat! Sure enough the t-top seals either need to be adjusted or replaced.. Yippee-_-

Motown

Youve got a V6 tach in there. The oil pressure gauge markings give it away.

The V8 tach has an oil pressure gauge with 0-30-60 markings. Pop one of those in there and i bet youll get a tach that reads correctly!

Good Luck!

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

good lord that poor car has been beaten into the ground, best of luck saving it. It's almost a exact twin of my iroc, only difference I can see is interior colour. Nice that it has J65, G80/G92 though. Where abouts in PA are you I might be able to help you out on some parts for it.

SWenholdIV

WOW!! Ya know your right!! I'm kinda bittersweet about this, because on one hand yea that does explain it and now I know what to do for sure. But that tach came from a cluster my dad traded his Mint condition Daytona Hood for along with a little bit of other stuff and some cash!! That guy screwed him!! Hopefully he's not on this forum because wow..that's low!

Jya no kidding. Well apparently I need a new tach lol. and basically I'm gonna do a rolling strip/restoration. I know it sounds a little bit unorthodox but I'm gonna be doing the interior first and then moving on to bodywork or drivetrain, because I hopefully will be driving it and that smell is enough to kill! So if you have any good seats or a dash bad or even door panels that's what I'm gonna be focusing on next. And yea those codes were a major selling point for me. Hopefully nothing back there's been swapped out though! Oh and I'm a little above a half hour north of Scranton/Dickson City via 81. For now at least, at the end of the month I'm gonna be moving.

Yesterday I had an interesting situation..I bought and installed the stock coolant temp sending unit where the p.o. installed a hardline in the stock location. Then when I went to start the engine to test it, it couldn't start. It wanted to, but just couldn't get there. I'm kinda nervous about it because I'm not sure how that could affect that, but maybe my constantly having the dome light on and off when I was setting the front body lines up drained the battery more then I thought it would. Idk, I'll have to see maybe later, if it stops raining.

EDIT: False alarm on the no-start situation, I went out to try it today and it started first try. My old truck did this when it was moist outside like it has been, so I'm probably gonna have to replace starter cables sometime. Unless I can hold off till I do the lq9 swap (hopefully..hehe)

SWenholdIV

Ok so today I got the last bit of the junk out, the hardlined oil pressure sending unit is gone. Fortunately he also used the stock location for that as well, so it was just take the crap out and put the good stuff in.
Next I'd like to find the right tach to go in, and also figure out why the voltimiter is reading way high. I put my multimeter on the battery before and after start and everything is fine, battery's fine and the alternator's fine. Somewhere along the line though, it's getting 18 volts from somewhere.
Something else I've been searching high and low for is a definitive source on the differentiation between gauge bezels. I have one that came with the car that has the brake on the far left, with the seat belt light right next to it, and then on the other side there is the upshift light in the far right position with a "service engine soon" light next to that and a choke light next to that. I also have another one though that came with the bought gauge cluster that only has the seat belt light on the left, and then has the brake light in the farthest right position, with a "check engine" light to the left of it, again with a choke light to left of that. If anybody has any info it'd be great, otherwise I'll keep on searching.

SWenholdIV

Today I replaced my passenger's side exhaust manifold gasket. There was a HORRIBLE exhaust leak there, it looked like a good blast of air just blew apart the gasket at the corner of the #2 port. Put a new gasket in and now the car runs good again. Well, except for the oil burning I found. I'm thinking valve stem seals because it burned on startup and settled down the longer it ran, plus when I'd step off the gas after revving it then it would flare up. Hopefully it's not the stems themselves though. My poor cat's are probably corked like a wine bottle!

Motown

It sounds like I have a manifold gasket leak too. How much was a new gasket? How long did it take to do the job?

SWenholdIV

Well actually I had an unusually easy time of it. The bolts were tight yes, but they came out like a brand new engine. Kinda strange, but yea. The gaskets were 9 bucks at napa for both sides. I only did the passenger's side cuz I only had a couple hours, but that's all it took. Under ANY other circumstance it could take a lot longer tho (broken/stripped bolts, a.i.r. System, a/c system, etc.) So just keep that in mind. The one harder area I had was on the back bolts by the heater box, kinda tight clearances.. Hands can get squished.

Motown

Ok thanks. Im going to take it to my local exhaust shop anyways. Was just checking weather the gaskets were expensive or it was an all day job. If it was either id expect a big repair bill.

Sounds like something my exhaust guy could do no problem then.

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

Atleast all the stripes, louvers and wheels look to be in good shape. The car looks to be in rough shape but by the sounds of it the car is in the right hands! Good luck with the project!

MI ROC-Z

Idk who put those laundry vents on the front clip of your IROC, but I would love to find out so I could !@#$%slap them! It's no wonder there is such a stigma associated with thirdgen's when there is stuff like that rolling around.

Anyways, good luck with your resto, stick to it... you have some long days ahead of you judging by the pics and the wiring.

camaro1185

Good luck. I love when someone rescues these cars!

SWenholdIV

Uh haha yea, if your EXHAUST guy can't do this, get a new exhaust man lol.

Yea thats true, its kind of a shame that I'm gonna have to tear them all off when I repaint sometime in the future.

You and me both I honestly don't understand where some people get their sense of 'style'. And all it does is make more work for me

Thanks man, I'm hoping it turns out as well as I plan.

SWenholdIV

Alright so, update time. The wiring woes continue into the engine bay I've tracked down a lot of the connectors and most of them are in fact a/c & smog stuff that had no where to go when everything came out. But even still there are some real doozies

For starters, I'll tell you about how the fan is wired..
One yellow wire starts at the positive battery terminal, with a freestanding 30 amp fuse about 6 inches from the battery. Then a splice is made to the switch's power supply from that fuse to the switch in the center console (which I now have to replace because of this). Then when turned on power goes back to the engine bay where a splice is made to the cut stock fan power supply wire. The stock fan relay supply wire is just simply cut so nothing is 'tangled' (I spose)

Then from there we move on to this little stub of a ground wire.. I have no idea whats going on here and I'm hoping it's just from something that's no longer there.


Then from there we come to my most favorite of them all. Take a guess as to where this white wire on the right goes..


Give up? I'll give you another clue..see if you can spot what's missing here..


Did ya get it? Why bother to have any knock protection when we can just cut it all out I kid you not, about a foot of wire is gone from the knock sensor wire. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to find out the black wire, but if it's not just another ground I have a feeling it's the stock fan switch wire. I'll have to see about that maybe tomorrow.
Oh I also found out my windshield washer pump is bad. It can barely pump air..
On the side of good news, I might have a tach lined up. Stay tuned!

White93z34

iTrader: (1)

man alive for all the additional wire there sure seems like a lot going nowhere. I cannot stand that hack it up/out mentality.

if that black wire is in the same small subharness chances are it is for the fan switch in the rear of the cyl head on that side.

MI ROC-Z

Hey, I have to give you credit man... that is alot of wiring problems to sort through, and I'm glad to see you're sticking with it! It took me almost 1.5 years before I found my battery drain!!! Good luck and drive on, I'm going to continue to follow your resto!

BTW, in the first picture, that connector looks like the A/C connector.

SWenholdIV

Yea pretty much, the one other thing going on that I haven't mentioned yet is the driver's side power seat wiring has been screwed with too. I'm leaving that alone though until I rip the seats and carpets out to replace after we move. It still works, but its just not right.
But yes you're correct me thinks, because I checked under the manifold for the fan switch and sure enough the switch-side of the connector is broke off, and they are in the same subharness like they should be. That should all be taken care of shortly though.

Haha thanks, you're tellin me though! Fortunately it's not really all that bad. It's all still there thankfully. I just have to reassemble it I guess. Plus the stuff that was added in has and will all come out relatively easily. For the fan I just have to solder the fan relay power supply back together, and then the fan power supply has to go back together with it's stock wire. Then when I get the switch wiring back together (assuming everything will actually work as stock should work) then I'll be able to sleep soundly. What I would like to do if I can find the time is go over EVERYTHING and tape up where there's been casing rub and all, to make sure there won't be any drains or shorts. It's gettin there though. Thanks for the following btw, it's nice to be appreciated
And yea that was my thought, probably a ground or something. We'll see if I put that back in right away.

As far as an update goes, I've got parts coming through rockauto, got killer deals on everything as always. Plus my discount code was running out lol. The only two things I should need right now is rad. fluid and a different temp fan switch as rockauto only had stock replacements. I got the 180* thermo, but I'll probably have to search through amazon or ride down to autozone or whatever. I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

SWenholdIV

Finally got parts in late yesterday, nothing really major as I'm moving in less then a week now. But I don't have to support the hood with a 2x2 anymore! I got new hoodstruts installed, and even fixed the windshield washer (pump was bad). Then I went after the knock sensor.. yea, that thing is STUCK! and I just barely have enough room now to squeeze under after I raise the car up a bit. When I started I could slide under a little bit easier (thank you p90x chest workout!! lol). So I'm gonna have to wait on that too till I can get a bit more comfortable work surrounding then gravel/dirt/etc. digging into my back that's jammed under the steering linkage. Hopefully on stands or ramps or a lift or SOMETHING. Till then it can soak its sweet ole time in PB blaster

znate

i got a 87 iroc, my tach is screwie 2 im gonna go to the salvage yard and see what i can dig up in the next few days. i'm in the same shoes as you i rescued mine from a four or five year slum after it was wrecked on the driver's side. good luck with your build looks like a good one to save!

IROC#1

God, I would almost suggest just pulling everything out (all wiring) and installing a wiring harness that you know you can trust. Something like that would make me loose sleep at night!

SWenholdIV

I was contemplating that for a little while, but everything so far is still functioning and I've only had to do a little bit of resplicing and rewrapping because of some chafing so I'm starting to trust it a tad bit more and more. We'll see where thing's actually end up.

Sorry for the long delay peoples, I just got internet here in West Virginia and things have been crazy with the house. I'm hoping I'll be able to finish up the wiring mess, work out some of the engine problems, repin and bush the doors, and at LEAST strip the interior before winter. I'd like to also reseal the tops but I doubt that'll happen in time. Till next time..

SWenholdIV

ooook fella's everything else goes on the back burner on this, I just found some very depressing news. Now I know it seems minor, but for the time being I still have no shop, welder, or easy cutting method.

Inside driver's side frame rail..



Outside driver's side frame rail..


Looking through the gap between the exhaust pipe and the car..


and some area I can't exactly remember where..


Fixing this WILL be the next thing I do on this car, but I have no idea how long it will be until I can. So it might be a while, but I'll be back.

SWenholdIV

Alright, so I rush stripped the interior. If I never see another mouse in my life it'll be too soon. I found three nests, one under the front of the console, one under the carpeted piece at the rear of the trunk under the hatch motor, and even one in the frekkin FRAME RAIL!! Fortunately the frame hasn't suffered any from my inspections, and all things considered of how bad it COULD be and how bad other cars have been, it's not really all that bad. That said, here's how bad it really is (after I 'poked' at it with my 1/2" wratchet)..

Driver's Side Front Footwell..



Passenger's Side Front Footwell..



A small hole in the passenger's side rear footwell..


And a lovely surprise in the right deepwell of the trunk. What's even more disheartening is not only is the quarterpanel support beginning to rot, but at the seam that runs due south in the picture from the rot hole, there is no weld there anymore! I'm not sure if the seam sealer acted as the weld material, or if the whole weld just decided to quit, so if somebody who knows could pitch in that'd be great..


So as you can see, it's not too bad, but it is pretty bad. Unfortunately it's also outside of my skill zone and this car isn't exactly one I plan on 'practicing' on. I need to get it done right the first time, but unfortunately who knows how long it'll take to get the money up for that. So until next time..

SWenholdIV

WOW!!! Where has the time gone?? I'm pretty much settled here after the new move and after some business trouble I was finally able to set aside a little bit of cash for the car so I guess one could say this is where the fun begins. One thing is I've had LOTS of time to do research and read & learn from other peoples experiences (and mistakes..scary) so I've got a definite plan for the forseeable future with this car.
To start off I just ordered two sets of subframe connectors, Alstons from TDS and BMR's from summit along with a set of paints from etch primer up to black for the under side. I think I'm gonna have to hire out the welding though to somebody local because I just can't get out of work long enough, plus the lack of shop/welder available too. That said though hopefully I can actually find somebody here who will do it the way it needs to be done. Anyway, I'll get pics up when everything gets here (to prove it I guess lol, you've all seen sfc's) and we'll see where things go from here.

Mr. IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

Hey there, I applaud your tenacity for this project. My question to you, and to to those others who get into such projects is, "why don't you start with a thirdgen that has less issues? Atleast something that isn't a rust bucket. It's not like thirdgens are rare these days. I don't mean to be a buzz kill...haha.

SWenholdIV

Well to be honest, if the rust isn't too much worse then I'm thinking it will be, even accounting for the rust that can't be seen, its definitely NOT too far gone imo. I've seen a lot worse turn out pretty nice, and so I have no doubt this floor can be put back to factory condition. Plus this was my dad's car, so the cost of sentiment alone merits at least the try. Plus on top of that , there's a reason why so many from years before aren't around anymore. People at one time looked at the now venerated 60's cars just like people now do the thirdgens, as throwaway cars. To me, this one isn't ready to be thrown out yet.

SWenholdIV

K, the connectors are in, I went with the BMR outter rail style:


and the alston inner tube style:


I'm more then happy with the quality of both, all the welds are good, the powder coat seems solid and both were definitely worth the purchase. Next, I'll let everybody know when I get them installed.

SWenholdIV

Wow, haha..almost a year since I last touched the car. Craziness. Reason being is I ran out of work, and then about three months later I started a new job, and I've had the busiest schedule. But, it was a rarity that on a mid-october afternoon it wasn't freezing/I wasn't working/nobody needed help with anything so I made some progress. First to start off, I got a welder, and for a first project made a bumper for my truck, which turned out really good. So I started on the sfc's. Why them first? Because I really don't want to cut out all the midcar support structure of the flooring, and then have the car split in half. I only got one done, the driver's side outside rail, but that's because I really wasn't in any rush. I really didn't want to screw it up, and I ground off more finish then I needed to. Maybe next week I'll be able to do the rest. Of course I'm also going to have to undo the exhaust sooner then I was hoping, but oh well.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

You seem to have already fixed it but I watned to throw this out there. I've had at least 4 hoods on and off my car, multiple times. If you get the hood lined up and it doesn't open... instead of trying to move things around to make it work after you just got them lined up, pop the hood and look near the latch in the hood. You'll see an S shaped bar held it by two bolts. loosen both of those bolts just a little, and tap the thing left or right with your wrench. We are talking milimeters here. Move it over a little. Shut the hood. Go pop it. If it's worse. Move it the other direction. Ive gotten every hood I have to open reliably within 45 seconds of messing around with that bar, and when I first bought my car it was a 10 minute ordeal to get the thing to open.


And judging by that SPID sheet, you have a nicely decked out car. G92, LB9, FE2... the only thing you're missing is a 350 or a T5, but you still got a TPI engine, some got LG4's... ugh. But the good news is that the 305 in 87 had a roller cam. So if you're so inclined, it'd be very easy to dump a moderately sized roller cam in there and throw maybe a stealth ram on it and some headers/exhaust. It wouldnt break any records, but it would give any factory L98 car a very hard time. And a good intake and good roller cam will hold their value and be useful on a 350 later if you sized the cam right.

This isn't to say this stuff is still in good condition, but its always nice to start out with a higher optioned car:

G80 - posi
G92 - performance gear ratio (probably 3.23)
FE2 - performance suspension, the best level
J65 - rear disc brakes (if they dont work... at all... thats a common problem with an easy fix)

SWenholdIV

To be honest, I think all I did there was a waste of time, because after I was about "done" I realized the doors probably are a huge deception on their alignment with the fenders, because the pins are in desperate need of replacing. Besides, everything is coming off eventually anyway when it comes time for paint so I've learned to live with it for now. Thanks for the tip though.
And as for the specs, I'll honestly be surprised if any of that stuff is still there, since I was told the car was pretty much stripped when it was stolen. And if it's not the original engine then I'd rather use a 325 ls, but all that is WAY down the line from now, haha.

SWenholdIV

Alright so work decided it didn't want to come to me today, so instead of wasting another day watching too much netflix I braved the cold to do some major surgury..

Passenger's side foot area

Passenger's side seat area

Passenger's side back seat area

Driver's side front seat area

Driver's side back seat area


To get the rest that's creeping up the firewall I need to take the dash out, and there's some rocker panel rot that needs to come out as well, so I'll probably be pulling the ground effects for that. Come to think of it I might just start tearing the whole car apart now, but I hope to have the floor back in place before much else gets started. Thats the great thing about demo/tear down work.. its free! haha.

muswp1

Looks like you are making progress. That firewall repair does not look like it's going to be fun.

hillntx

I'm going to agree with what someone else already said and suggest cutting your losses and get a different car. Your dad only had the car for two years, the wiring is a mess, the underside is swiss cheese, and who knows what other mysteries are waiting for you. Personally I would pull and store the good parts, scrap out the rest and find a better body to build up. Since these cars are not to the point of being high dollar collectables you can still get a decent body fairly cheap and probably save yourself time and money. I admire your tenacity, but you're doing it the hard way.

Lmancha96

very well put


your making nice progress (its slow as hell but its progress lol jk)

cant wait to hear more from ya dude

SWenholdIV

Haha yea, sorry about that. Things move a little slow with such a busy schedule, and no garage. Stinkin wind, it was COLD today. I moved a little farther forward though. The dash is out, and the hvac box is at least out of the way. That was a bit of an ordeal though. Whose bright idea was it to put a mounting bolt behind the core under the hood?? And the C100 plug wasn't much of a picnic either. But its all good now, and I was pretty ok with what I found underneath, because I don't think I'll need to cut anything out of the firewall. Just a quick blasting/flapdisc/sanding should do the trick.