QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Most LS3 strokers aren't actually LS3 blocks. They tend to use re-sleeved 5.3L blocks that don't have the crank bay windows like an LS3. It ends up being a strong block but without the blessings of the LS3 crank bay breathing. Nice thing about re-sleeving is you can go large bore if you want. Large bore rocks.

For the same money you could have an iron 6-bolt, large bore Dart block with priority main oiling that comes with a 100 pound penalty.

LS7 block doesn't just have large bore, it also has longer sleeves and the largest crank bay windows of any LS engine. But the sleeves are fragile and needs to be re-sleeved for a boosted build. Not worth the price unless you have one just laying around.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Money no object?

Drop it off with Nelson Racing Engines with the instructions: Make it Fast, here's a blank check.

or just give it to Detroit Speed Engineering and say Make it fast too.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

He wants to do a build, not do a buy.

alan91z28

I completely agree that you need to be ready to roll with the punches on these types of projects... great excitement, but one bad shift and boom!

Also though on a more considerate note, I see you are thinking about using the Holley controller. They have a lot of nice features, but also in my experience a lot of quirks. The OEM controllers are in many ways more challenging to tune, but that is largely because they are built upon a bedrock of driveability and diagnostics... I just had a brand new crate engine with less than <150 miles have a loose set of cam sprocket bolts... the OEM diagnostics flagged it as a problem with the cam sensor and it was easy (ok i have a lot of experience but all the data is there and the OEM manual diagnostic trees are actually pretty good) to quickly rule out everything other than the cam must be walking... bottom line caught it before any real damage... that almost certainly would not be the case if I was running a Holley

Holley ECM is a very nice product in some regards but they blew it in my opinion on lack of detailed control tables (their idle control is a joke for example), reliability, and lack of any diagnostics.

Everyone has their own experience and opinions... I have used a lot of different ECM controls and in the end from my viewpoint the OEM 411 LS1 02 Camaro DBC OS or E38 DBW 2010 Vette OS are pretty tough to beat

Beater79TA

This is the often overlooked part of any Pro-Touring style build. If you actually run it, you will eventually break it. Keep that in mind. More conservative builds may be a little slower but will last a lot longer. I'm currently stockpiling parts to have a spare drivetrain sitting ready to assemble and install to keep down time to a weekend engine swap when it happens. We got 5 years out of our first 500 rwhp build before it lost a lifter. It isn't even close to being the fastest car on the circuit. But we made it 5 years without an engine rebuild where the faster cars were needing annual inspection teardowns.

The advice I'll give as the person who runs a multi car racing team on the Optima challenge / GoodGuys / Pro Touring circuit, you can't spend your way to winning. It isn't possible. There are people running in these events who may not look like millionaires who are actual millionaires. On some series you will race against people with names like Unser, yes that Unser family. You may meet people you think are racing a kit car only to find out the car is a legit 1 owner 66 Shelby Cobra with an appraised value of $5M. The point I'm going for is build a car that will be fun to drive and worry less about big HP numbers and more about driveability. The bigger the event, the more likely it is you will be competing against professional drivers. Pro Touring events attract drivers from all over including former Indy car champions, NASCAR drivers, BAJA truck series winners, and some people who spend their spare time just going to competition driving schools. Starting out, your reasonable goal is don't be last. Work up from there.

The only recommendation I'm going ot make on your build is leave the blower off for the first year after the car is built. Drive it NA for at least a year to get a feel for the events you plan on competing at. Centrifugal blowers don't work well for some types of events. The power is too spiky by design for autocross and short straight road courses. Turbos come onto power smoother. So do positive displacement style superchargers. The other reason for taking some time with it NA is to dial in the car and yourself to driving these types of events. It sounds like you want to do this type of driving but haven't before. And road courses, autocross, and Pro Touring in general is the type of driving you will get less frustrated with as a beginner with lower power than too much power. Spinning the car is fun to watch from the stands but really frustrating and possibly expensive for the driver. Hitting a rail at the track carries 2 costs. You have to fix the car. AND the track charges by the foot to repair the railing.

Blown_WS6

Ok guys so I dropped the LS3 block and LS3 823 casting heads off at Horsepower Research in McKinney, TX. Anthony the owner really seems to know his stuff. Plus he's super close to where I live so I lucked out. He's going through the block probably next week to see how much the cylinders need to be honed or bored because there is some weird pitting on two of the sleeves. It looks like that was the failure with the original engine. The heads have some aftermarket dual valve springs he suggested not reusing and it came with a CompCams BTRLS3STG4 camshaft that would need a few lobes polished out but not the cam I'd need anyway. (So its free to anyone that wants to pay for shipping and will assume the cost of getting those two lobes polished out.)

Anthony is going to install larger exhaust valves and port and polish the heads as well. The crank is going to be a Callies Compstar 8 counterweight stroker crank. 4.00" stroke. The Rods are going to be Callies Compstar H-beams that are 6.125" long. The pistons are going to be Wiseco -8cc forged pistons but not sure the final bore size yet. We were originally looking at 4.070".

The thing I'm getting stuck on is what kind of RPM range I want to run to select a camshaft and intake. I need something that fits under the stock Firebird hood. I was looking at the Holley Low ram but it says its tuned for 7-8k RPM. I wanted to try and keep this thing from spinning super fast. I'd have to get the Mid Ram manifold or FAST composite manifold to run something tuned for more of a 6500rpm range. A lot of my future decisions are going to be made here. Which pullies to run on the D1X blower etc.

Any feedback? Also: is there any downside to running a cable driven 102mm throttle body over a drive by wire system? It seems like the wire system will be easier since the car had that before.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Use the stock ls3 intake its very good. Do not get the fast ls3 it is a waste of money.

stage 4 cam you had would be pretty good honestly. Blower likely doesnt need the duration tho but the cubes would eat it up nicely

btr has some blower cams that could work good too

Ls3 intake will peak around 6000-6100 rpm with those cubes but hold power to 6500 ish. A popular mod is the rod mod, which a radius edge rod is installed above the runners of the intake in the plenum and it smooths air entry, picks up 10-15 hp usually.

thats what i would do

408Z28

Recently purchased an '87 Z last year. 97k mile, T-top car from Kentucky and decided to take it down to a certain point. Well, once I started, I kept going further and further with the disassembly until only the body was left.

Currently have a 6.0 gen 3 short block on the stand. AFR LS3 heads ordered and should be here by 12/22. Comp LSR 54-470-11 cam, K1 stroker rotating assy. with wiseco domed pistons, King mains and CR brgs. Fast 102 intake and that's as far as I have gone with the engine to this point.

Other upgrades and additions:

Aeromotive tank and regulator
QA1 rear adjustable shocks
Hotchkis 1" drop springs, front and rear
BMR adjustable control arms, panhard bar and relocation bar and kits,
All brake lines replaced, front to rear
DSE steering brace and stabilizer bar
DSE caster/camber kits
Hawks 4th gen manual pedals (convert from auto)
McLeod master cylinder kit
All new brakes and all components (front and rear)
QA1 control arms (front)
DSE front sway bar and links
All new steering linkage
Steering shaft upgraded
Magnum F trans (ordered)
The list goes on.
The goal is to keep it as stock in appearance as possible (interior and exterior). Factory gauges are being changed over to all speedhut gauges. Next on the list is getting rid of the 10 bolt w/ 2.73 for a Currie 9".

As someone said earlier in the thread...add it up, double it, that will be your true cost. I've spent a considerable amount in parts alone, I've done all of the labor with the exception of the machine shop work on the block.

Blackbetty1982

If i was doing a dream swap in my car it would definitely be a LS7 that is procharged with the 6-speed manual from tremec, i love that the LS7 is the final N/A big block to be offered in a street camaro.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Small block

Blackbetty1982

427 is a big block?

Blackbetty1982

Nvm, i understand now, i was referring to the ZZ427/480

Beater79TA

Yep. No big block LS engines. Some just have more cubic inches than others on the same exterior dimensions.

mikeceli

iTrader: (2)

Contact the US Federal Government Surplus Property Division. Perhaps you can get a decommissioned Nuclear Reactor, from an old Sub or Carrier. Best wishes!

Arctic White 91 RS

Start with a spread sheet listing what you want to do and what your best honest estimate is costwise for each modification. I've built or had built 4 major car projects with new engines, transmissions, rear ends, suspension, brakes & tires. Likewise three projects that required body work, paint & interior.

Beware of project creep

That way one won't be surprised if what appeared like it should cost $50,000 actually ends up costing ~$75,000. High quality paint & body work and interior restoration can eat $20,000 to $30,000 depending what you want. Likewise brakes, tires, fancy wheels and suspension can easily eat $10,000.

In other words, LS swapping and Resto-modding my 91 RS which should have cost ~$50,000 buy ended up costing $75,000 because of project creep. I'd underestimated paint, body & interior costs.The RS got a lot of goodies added along the way etc

Autocross vs Drag Race
Forced Induction doesn't seem to work well for autocross. I'd consider building NA for autocross or protour or daily driver and adding a 200hp to 300 hp shot of NOS for the drag strip depending on the motor build.

Magnum F vs T56 Level 2/3 whatever
Definitely Magnum way more fun to drive
Spend the $$$ and get that killer RPS clutch for the big $$$ - sure wish I had. My RS has a nice T56 level 2 but my T/A has a Magnum and Magnum is worth the difference.

9 inch rear
MidWest Chassis aluminum housing
Friend has one its awesome definitely put on your shopping list.

Suspension & Brakes
Before buying any parts, call Sam Strano and discuss your project. Sam's won many SCCS autocross championships and is well worth listening to and buying from.

LS vs Gen V LT
For easy of doing I think the LS still has the edge over the superior LT. Either can make 1,000 whp. I'd favor LS for ease. In five to ten years it will probably be a wash.

Best wishes with the project.

BTW - always hold back 10% of budget for unexpected expenses and issues that come up after a big project is done.