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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I want to let you folks know what's going on and why you're going to see me (and hopefully others) start up some tech threads for LS swaps. I've been given read/write permissions to update the stickies in the LS swap forum. That's all fine and dandy but this has to be a community effort to get the best end result. We have some really smart people here that can contribute in huge ways -- and I hope you do.
My vision is that we have stand-alone tech threads by topic matter that are made specifically to support the LS swap sticky. Concise, to the point, info up front.... and ACCURATE! It has to be a community effort and I'm looking for volunteers that want to help. In the end we'll have ourselves an awesome tech resource that is concise, accurate, and chock-full of good information.
Right now I'm mapping out the topic matters and how I propose they should be grouped. I think you guys are going to get pretty excited about some of this stuff and hopefully want to take charge of parts of it. Ideas are welcome!
Also need help with drive by wire. I've never done it.
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses
* types of electronic throttle pedals
* types of TAC modules
* compatibility matrix between all these parts
* what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
Looking for any information about part numbers of electrical connectors commonly touched when doing LS swaps. Connector type is even enough and then I can find the p/n's myself.
Looking for any information about part numbers of electrical connectors commonly touched when doing LS swaps. Connector type is even enough and then I can find the p/n's myself.
Like every connector? I could give you my harness spreadsheet.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
So who knows a ton about the various accessory drives and wants to do a write up on that? It's a HUGE topic matter. Need to cover OE and aftermarket.
I used the Holley brackets, but I am not real good at writing stuff up, I didn't even put it in my build, lol
Could potentially post the Holley instructions, it's all covered there
Qwk, I can do front accessories. I have almost every part number from every GM configuration charted. Also, I failed at it 3 times and bought various set-ups so I am pretty knowledgeable on what works and what doesn't. Even with the relocation stuff. I'll start drafting something up.
Looking for somebody that knows a lot about radiators and what fits our cars. Seems I see a lot of threads these days with radiators that dont't actually drop in. Both 3rd gen configuration and LS configuration.
This will be part of a larger topic matter of cooling systems with LS engine swaps.
Start your own thread like a standalone topic. Eventually there will be a sticky that ties it all together.
It would be best if pictures are housed on this site so that it isn't susceptible to something like the Photo Bucket fiasco or people closing their own personal accounts somewhere. That's something I can take care of in the future though so it's not actually real important right now.
Looks like this shot has part numbers. Ive bought aftermarket ones off ebay for $10 that work great. No black ectoplasm!
Is this what you are looking for?
No I mean the actual part numbers so you can repair.
Oh, I missed the part about the terminals. There were a couple in my spreadsheet. I think there were only two part numbers, a male and female. The terminal wire sizes we for like 20-22 gauge and that covered all or most of the wires to the 207.
Like I said in my email, it's unorganized unless you're me
I just looked again, they are there including the part number for the female side connector for the 207
Just an FYI, the 207 only recently became available. I had looked for a long time for a source and none were available. Someone must have ordered enough for Delphi to make another batch. It is conceivable that this is the last time the connector will be available unless people keep ordering them. I got 50 and my friend got 50 too
There were a couple in my spreadsheet.Like I said in my email, it's unorganized unless you're me
Oh, I see it now. My eyes went over it because the p/n was crossed out but now I see why. Thanks!
Originally Posted by scooter
Like I said in my email, it's unorganized unless you're me
Maybe a little bit....
I do okay in Excel and I was actually wanting to give you back a flippin' fantastic spreadsheet as my way to say thanks but I'm having a lot of difficulty setting up dynamic pick-lists. Nothing is working for me like it does in tutorials online.
Oh, that would be cool. I don't use it a whole lot anymore. I have most of my terminals in part trays with the PN and the use so I can just grab what I need out of the tray without having to reference anything else.
The other thing I'm doing is manually hunting down information myself from Pocket's build threads and a Delphi catalog I saved many years ago. That way I'll be able to identify your most unique and prized information. Then you and I can talk and we'll figure out what to share and not share. I'm not going to splash all that info on the board without talking to you first.
I think we all got busy at work and outdoor activities once the weather warmed up. Probably expect this to pick up again next winter.
The project that scooter and I have been working on together is part numbers for common connectors in LS swap harnesses. Still looking for a volunteer to take on the topic matter of Drive by Wire.
Originally Posted by QwkTrip
Also need help with drive by wire. I've never done it.
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses
* types of electronic throttle pedals
* types of TAC modules
* compatibility matrix between all these parts
* what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
No I mean the actual part numbers so you can repair.
Sorry I missed this... I try to answer any Electrical Questions that involve information (Part Numbers) not released to the public.
Were you looking for part numbers regarding the C207 and C208 Connectors?
The Connector Bodies are long gone unfortunately.
There were discontinued over 15 years ago... But I find them in F-Body recycling businesses/ junk yards.
The Terminals are still available.
These Connectors are actually a mix-match of two different Connector-Systems (Not Common).
Here is an Image of the Connector half with Male Terminals:
This half of the C207 and C208 Connectors use Delphi Metri-Pack 280 series UNSEALED Terminals.
Part Numbers for the Terminals are:
-20 AWG to 18 AWG =12034047
-16 AWG to 14 AWG =12020116
-12 AWG to 10 AWG =12084586
Note: when searching for these Part Numbers; you may find the Part Number but with a "-L" found at the end of the number.
This is perfectly fine, there is no difference in the Terminal.
Note: "Delphi" should be used with the Part Number when searching...
However if you find the Terminal and you see "Aptiv" instead of "Delphi"... you have the correct Part.
GM sold off Delphi after the financial crisis of 2008/ 2009 to Aptiv.
Here is an Image of the Connector half with the Female Terminals:
This half of the C207 and C208 Connectors use Delphi Pack-Con Terminals.
NOT to be confused with "Pack-Con II" or "Pack-Con III" Terminals... they look very similar but will not fit the Connector Body correctly.
The Pack-Con Terminals were first created for the implementation of ATO/ ATC Blade type Fuses in GM vehicles, for the Fuse-Panels (Bussed Electrical Center) instead of Cylindrical Glass-Tube Fuses.
Third-Gen F-Bodies use different Pack-Con, and Pack-Con III Terminals for the Fuse Panel (Bussed Electrical Center).
Sorry, back to the C207/ C208 Connector half with Female Terminals.
Part Numbers for the Terminals are:
-20 AWG to 18 AWG =12040508
-16 AWG to 14 AWG =12040837
-12 AWG to 10 AWG =12020347
Note: when searching for these Part Numbers; you may find "Packard", Packard Electrical", "P.E.D.", or "Packard Electrical Division" instead of Delphi.
This Connector series predates the formation of Delphi.
Last edited by vorteciroc; 05-27-2021 at 11:20 PM.
Winter is coming and it's about time to pick this up again. Anybody that wants to help let me know. I'm going to pick up where I left off with the wire harness parts list.
I took a break from the Trans Am for a while, and I haven’t looked at ThirdGen very much this year. That said, I think updating the stickies is a great idea. I’m assuming that the target audience is a beginner who is doing an LSX swap the for first time?
I’m assuming that the target audience is a beginner who is doing an LSX swap the for first time?
There's no limit, it can be any level we want. That's the advantage of making the stand-alone tech threads. More advanced topic matters can be added (linked) as more knowledgeable people make new content.
Hawks probably helped write the article as it heavily favors their solutions.
When I did my swap over 5 years ago, I went with a Gen IV engine as a good Gen III was tough to find. I’m sure it’s even harder to find a 24X now. So, a concise thread with the best solutions to integrate a 58x with stock gauges and A/C would definitely be helpful.
As far as pedals, the 2010 Camaro DBW throttle body, pedal, and E38 ECM worked great for me. Hawk’s mounting bracket for the pedal also worked great. I expanded on another members idea to use my stock clutch MC with a T56. Again, it worked great with no problems.
I hate GT 150 connectors. Loathsome hate. Seems impossible to figure out the correct connectors and terminal p/n's.
That could be because there are 3 Sub-Groups of GT-150 Connectors:
-Original GT-150:
-Slimline GT-150 (3.5mm Centerline) with or without Shroud
(which is actually the Metri-Pack 150.2 Pull to Seat Series, but updated to Push to Seat Tangless Terminals, with PLR and TPA):
The above come with 3 slightly different Key-Ways (PLR Locks): Purple, White, or Yellow.
Classic GT-150 (which is actually the Metri-Pack 150 Series, but updated with Tangless Terminals, and PLR Locks):
The above version also is available with a "Bootable" End-Cap, instead of Tangs for the TPA.
Below is what the similar Original Metri-Pack 150 Connector looks like for comparison:
Last edited by vorteciroc; 12-13-2021 at 06:32 PM.
Alright, I think you just unraveled one of the great mysteries I'm dealing with. I found the master drawing for GT 150 terminals (12191815) but couldn't figure out what the terminology means. Guessing this is the interpretation?
Push to Seat style:
Sealed GT = original GT 150 on 4.5 mm centerline
Sealed Mini = slimline GT 150 on 3.5 mm centerline
Sealed 150MP = classic GT-150
Knowing that distinction helped a ton with the GT 150 connectors. Thank you!
Anybody know the different connector part numbers for 24x vs. 58x crankshaft speed sensor? I think the 24x connector is 12059595.
I know I had to change the connector on my harness when I went from 24x to 58x, but I pilfered an LS3 harness I had laying around and never knew the part number.
I'll tell ya, I thought I knew a lot more than I did. Going through the real process of getting all the correct part numbers for harness bits and bobbles has not been a small task. A lot of the info you find is incorrect in minor ways, but still incorrect.
Knowing that distinction helped a ton with the GT 150 connectors. Thank you!
Anybody know the different connector part numbers for 24x vs. 58x crankshaft speed sensor? I think the 24x connector is 12059595.
I know I had to change the connector on my harness when I went from 24x to 58x, but I pilfered an LS3 harness I had laying around and never knew the part number.
I'll tell ya, I thought I knew a lot more than I did. Going through the real process of getting all the correct part numbers for harness bits and bobbles has not been a small task. A lot of the info you find is incorrect in minor ways, but still incorrect.
You are most welcome!
The 24X Crank Speed Sensor will fit 2 different Connectors:
-Black (12059595):
-Natural (15324165):
The Original TPA for both is: Natural (12052845):
Last edited by vorteciroc; 12-13-2021 at 03:23 PM.
This actually has been quite frustrating because the Mouser and APTIV websites often have unsuitable terminals and seals listed as associated parts with a connector. Seems I can't necessarily trust those lists.
I've stumbled across some "master drawings" (TAXI, whatever that means) while pulling up prints for parts at the APTIV website. For example, I managed to find 5 different master drawings of GT-150 sealed terminals. Problem is it's just pure luck finding those things because the master drawing numbers don't pull up with a part search. Any good techniques for finding and viewing those master drawings?
Right now I want to find all the master drawings for Metri-Pack 150 terminals and single cable seals. I think I found the 3-rib seals but there are 2-rib too and I don't know which is preferred when. Also found a master drawing for MP150 sealed tang female but I know there are more out there somewhere.
This actually has been quite frustrating because the Mouser and APTIV websites often have unsuitable terminals and seals listed as associated parts with a connector. Seems I can't necessarily trust those lists.
I've stumbled across some "master drawings" (TAXI, whatever that means) while pulling up prints for parts at the APTIV website. For example, I managed to find 5 different master drawings of GT-150 sealed terminals. Problem is it's just pure luck finding those things because the master drawing numbers don't pull up with a part search. Any good techniques for finding and viewing those master drawings?
Right now I want to find all the master drawings for Metri-Pack 150 terminals and single cable seals. I think I found the 3-rib seals but there are 2-rib too and I don't know which is preferred when. Also found a master drawing for MP150 sealed tang female but I know there are more out there somewhere.
The Part Numbers for "Delphi" Connectors, have not reliably correct since 2008/ 2009.
The ONLY place that the Part Numbers were reliably correct, was in the Delphi Master Database (including the Data-Sheets within).
As you have found... the Part Numbers that are Posted/ Listed as "associated"/ 'compatible" are usually incorrect (but direct listings are usually correct).
Aptiv is only interested in the Parts that they have designed/ produced (from the Locations, Equipment, Resources, and Engineers that they acquired) since purchasing the "Delphi Connection Systems" company.
They do not care anymore about pre-existing Delphi Parts!
So yes, you will find incorrect information everywhere (like the horrible Aptiv Website, and Mouser).
If anyone needs to find a Delphi Part (or Part Number)...
I will do my best to make Myself available to help.
I really LOVED Delphi (I loved being a Delphi Engineer) and I would like to help keep the Delphi name going!
It would be nice if there was a way I could just have all the sheets of the latest revs. This random collection I'm forming is way better than nothing but I know it's just partial.
It would be nice if there was a way I could just have all the sheets of the latest revs. This random collection I'm forming is way better than nothing but I know it's just partial.
For the most part, yes you can trust them.
Packard Electrical and Delphi Taxis were never intended to be released to the Public.
They contain pertinent information that makes copying/ stealing Designs very easy.
Unfortunately, once Design Patents expire, the Data-Sheets/ Taxis usually end up being shared.
Some Taxis use a Document Identification Number/ Taxi Number that is the same as the Part it is for.
However, since the majority of Taxis cover multiple (and sometimes many) Part Numbers at once... the Taxi Number can not match (Too many Part Numbers, which one gets chosen).
There are a good number of Data-Sheets on the Net for Delphi Parts...
But there are thousands of Data-Sheets that are NOT on the Net.
At this time, there is NO way for you to find all the Taxis, that you want.
Again, Delphi never made a Public release of those Documents.
For the time being...
If you and the other Members can't find something, let me know.
Alright, let's do a trial run to see if my methods work. If I can get this right then I can probably get most right. This is for the LS engine coil pack interconnect (7-way plug). Please check my assumed wire AWG range for TXL wire too.
Alright, let's do a trial run to see if my methods work. If I can get this right then I can probably get most right. This is for the LS engine coil pack interconnect (7-way plug). Please check my assumed wire AWG range for TXL wire too.
02-20-2021, 06:56 PM
