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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
The EV1 Injectors can move a significant amount of Fuel (compared to EV6, EV14, Multec-II, Etc).
When working hard, they can draw some real Amperage (they are good for 25A per Injector)...
So depending on the Fuel requirements (especially with Alcohols) do not skimp on the Wire Gauge.
The EV1 Injectors can move a significant amount of Fuel (compared to EV6, EV14, Multec-II, Etc).
When working hard, they can draw some real Amperage (they are good for 25A per Injector)...
So depending on the Fuel requirements (especially with Alcohols) do not skimp on the Wire Gauge.
Is there a technology shift from high impedance to low impedance injector to get that kind of current draw?
Is there a technology shift from high impedance to low impedance injector to get that kind of current draw?
Sorry, I was not clear.
I was simply saying that the EV1 Parts can handle that much Amperage (as a High Impedance Injector via 12V).
I did not mean that they will draw that much Current (unless they are flowing a bunch of Alcohol).
The Low Impedance Parts will see much higher Amperage (with lower PWM Voltage though) than the High Impedance Parts.
Lower flowing Low Impedance Injectors will easily see 30A to 60A.
These are topic matters I'm still looking for volunteers to tackle:
Drive By Wire
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses
* types of electronic throttle pedals
* types of TAC modules
* compatibility matrix between all these parts
* what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
Radiators
* Seems almost nothing fits right anymore? I haven't bought one in 20 years.
California Smog Legal Swap
* Anybody got a link or want to write up a good explanation?
I forgot to finish discussing the Image below (that I used for reference earlier in this Thread):
This Connector is displayed as such in order to show the Diode installed.
However, the Legs of the Diode should be covered with very small diameter Heat-Shrink Tubing...
Excluding the portion of the Legs that are crimped into the Terminals.
I also add a Connector-Boot for added protection.
The TE/ AMP: #880811-2 Connector-Boot fits over the TPA of this Connector very nicely.
It is a Boot intended for a Bootable Metri-Pack 150 3-Way Connector; but works great for this Connector also.
Boot shown below:
Last edited by vorteciroc; 01-28-2022 at 11:56 PM.
These are topic matters I'm still looking for volunteers to tackle:
Drive By Wire
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses
* types of electronic throttle pedals
* types of TAC modules
* compatibility matrix between all these parts
* what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
Radiators
* Seems almost nothing fits right anymore? I haven't bought one in 20 years.
California Smog Legal Swap
* Anybody got a link or want to write up a good explanation?
Oh, I missed the part about the terminals. There were a couple in my spreadsheet. I think there were only two part numbers, a male and female. The terminal wire sizes we for like 20-22 gauge and that covered all or most of the wires to the 207.
Like I said in my email, it's unorganized unless you're me
I just looked again, they are there including the part number for the female side connector for the 207
Just an FYI, the 207 only recently became available. I had looked for a long time for a source and none were available. Someone must have ordered enough for Delphi to make another batch. It is conceivable that this is the last time the connector will be available unless people keep ordering them. I got 50 and my friend got 50 too
Hey scooter! I joined this forum awhile back but don’t really know how to work the thing. But I was told that your the guy to help with the c100 ls swap set up! I’m looking to clean up my engine bay a bit and get this car going. Any help would be much appreciated
List of supporting tech threads is growing (see post #1). Still seeking a volunteer that can do a fair job of drive by wire.
Drive By Wire
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses
* types of electronic throttle pedals
* types of TAC modules
* compatibility matrix between all these parts
* what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
I'm going to get this show back on the road over the winter months when we're all stuck indoors again. Try to update the actual sticky. Still looking for volunteers to do good write ups on,
* Radiators, cooling system
* Drive by wire
* Transmission interchangeability
There are other topics that would be excellent as well if somebody has the knowledge base to contribute.
* Oil control and crankcase ventilation.
* Valvetrain stability
* other???
The cheap Non-Adjustable Valve-Train Route that most LSx Guys seem to take...
Or "Real" (Adjustable) Valve-Train Route?
The better of the Gen-III Cylinder-Blocks often made use of a large diameter Hole through the Main-Webbing
(Above the Mains, but below the Camshaft Journals. Not great, Not terrible):
Here is an Old Image of me adding those Bay to Bay breathing holes to a Cylinder-Block...
As part of Testing/ Data Collection, pertaining to Crankcase Pressure:
The better of the Gen-IV Cylinder-Blocks would open-up areas where the Main-Caps and the Main-Webbing would meet.
Small outward bulges in the lower portions of the Cylinder-Block above the Oil-Pan Rails...
As well as Main Cap and Webbing "Side to Side" Windows:
Also, changing/ improving Crankcase Pressure with Stock/ production Cylinder-Blocks will be a different story than the Aftermarket Stuff...
Many years ago...
I had to remove Images that I posted of Drilling the Gen-III Style Breathing Holes...
Many IDIOTS did NOT Drill the Holes off Center as I have shown...
Drilling directly through the Passage (for each Main Journal) that connects Cam bearing Oil to Crank Bearing Oil!!!
I don't know. Seemed to make more sense before you started asking intelligent questions.
I guess maybe I was thinking more along the lines of older SBC transmissions. And which ECM's can run which LS transmissions. I've never had an auto trans so I'm not sure how complex or easy these matter really are.
I would like a definitive answer on how to take my TH700/4L 60/700R4 (non E) and mate it to an LM7.
I've read about adaptors, spacers, specialty flexplates, etc.
What's the real scoop?
I can easily fabricate the TV cable mount and ensure the geometry is correct. FTR, this would be a carbed LM7.
I would like a definitive answer on how to take my TH700/4L 60/700R4 (non E) and mate it to an LM7.
I've read about adaptors, spacers, specialty flexplates, etc.
What's the real scoop?
I can easily fabricate the TV cable mount and ensure the geometry is correct. FTR, this would be a carbed LM7.
Honestly it is all just in the Torque-converter now...
Call up FTI in Deland, FL...
Tell Dalton you have a Gen-1 SBC and a Gen-III 4L60E.
Honestly it is all just in the Torque-converter now...
Call up FTI in Deland, FL...
Tell Dalton you have a Gen-1 SBC and a Gen-III 4L60E.
The converter fits, Done.
That's all well and good Mr. V. but what if I already have a converter that I'm happy with? Or at the very least, one that I expect to be happy with as this latest unit is still not track tested considering the mess the engine ended up in when I thought I was ready to go.
If you have a TC that is built as (entirely OEM Gen-III SBC) 4L60E Dimensions...
To be used with a Gen-I SBC...
Then Fly-Wheels with Multi-Bolt Patterns (for the TC) and possible a Crank-Spacer (depending on Bell/ Curve of the "Flex" Plate) will be needed to mate.
There is no real reason to bother doing things that way anymore...
One half of the TC gets built to fit the Engine and Flex-Plate...
The other half gets built to fit the Trans (Stator-Support, Turbine-Shaft, and Pump Drive-Gear).
I have not forgotten about this thread and the help people have provided already. I have been waiting for more complete information on certain other topics (volunteers that can make more tech threads) but I think that's maybe far off or not going to happen, so maybe its time to pull together what we have and update the LS swap sticky.
Having a guide for Drive By Wire seems really important though but I have zero experience with that.
* type of throttle bodies and harnesses * types of electronic throttle pedals * types of TAC modules * compatibility matrix between all these parts * what pedals can be used with 3rd gen swaps and how
I may be able to help with this. I've assisted with an LS6 DBW swap as well as my own LS3 DBW swap. I remember going through a few different pedals to find the one that worked best in regards to pedal placement. Likewise, I did have to modify the hawks bracket. It will ultimately come down to Gen 3 vs Gen 4 throttle body architecture. Most universal harnesses will require you to select from either option. As far as aftermarket throttle bodies, there aren't too many out there. Specifically, there is the nick Williams line up for the Gen 4 crowd, and I can't recall a larger aftermarket DBW option for a Gen 3 swap. On one of the power tours I spoke to the FAST techs about their upcoming throttle body that was to compete with nick Williams. However, that product never came to Market. I would suspect NW holds too much market share. They did say there was quite a bit of proprietary controls in it that they were having problems working through. Maybe that's what did them in. Scoggin Dickey also sells a version of the NW102 which is what I am running. There are also ebay knock offs that are 1/5th the cost but I would never use them given the conversation I had with FAST.
Last edited by ShiftyCapone; 07-05-2023 at 06:46 PM.
However it never interested me; I strongly dislike and do not trust the Technology.
I have had numerous GM and Non-GM Vehicle have uncontrolled Throttle issues.
I can actually manipulate the Throttle with an electromagnet and a potentiometer.
ALSO, all of my Cars with a Cable have a Toe-Hook on the Throttle-Pedal in case the Throttle sticks (Blown Methanol engines mostly, throttle-blades freeze in place)...
or the return spring fails (any engine).
Last edited by vorteciroc; 07-05-2023 at 03:06 PM.
I have a Hawks bracket and both kinds of GM pedals they recommend all new in the box if you need pictures. (Hey, I like having options .... )
One pedal is Corvette. The other is 5th gen Camaro or GTO, I can't remember, I'll have to cross-reference the part number from the box. The bracket is drilled for one but not the other. Problem is these days it is hard to find the pedal that truly bolts up (which is why I have one stashed away).
I have a Hawks bracket and both kinds of GM pedals they recommend all new in the box if you need pictures. (Hey, I like having options .... )
One pedal is Corvette. The other is 5th gen Camaro or GTO, I can't remember, I'll have to cross-reference the part number from the box. The bracket is drilled for one but not the other. Problem is these days it is hard to find the pedal that truly bolts up (which is why I have one stashed away).
I honestly can't find in my records what pedal I ended up using. I bought a CTSV one I think which did not work. I think I have a C6 pedal. I will have to crawl under there and see if I can get a part number.
Yeah, I think we start with what pedals package under the dash with decent ergonomics. That's a small list from what I know.
Then we talk about the electronic integration requirements for each of those pedals to make it work with the control systems. Basically build out a compatibility matrix of what parts can be used with what parts.
People come home with who knows what engine from who knows what car and the key is they need to know the compatibility matrix to figure out how to make their junk work. And sometimes the answer is just going to be buy different junk.
I did some digging into my notes and purchase history and here is a preliminary update.
The DBW pedals below all physically plug in and communicate/function with any LS2 or LS3 harness. However, fitment is different.
GM# 25835421 (Corvette) - Fits nicely, in line with other pedals, feels like stock position. This part number replaces 12569599, 15864594, 25835421 which can also be used. (used from 2005 to 2013 on LS2, LS3, and LS7 cars)
GM# 10379038 (CTS-V) - Does not work with the hawks bracket, would need to be chopped up to fit nicely
GM# 20972082 (Vortec Truck) - No experience but I would imagine the fit is not ideal.
The early DBW pedals (C5 LS6 Z06) needed a 19245405 throttle control actuator. 25742399 was the pedal used but looks identical to the CTSV setup. Would not recommend.
I have the 5th gen Camaro pedal 22741800 and it appears the attachment holes line up but there are nubs on the back side that either need to ground away or complimentary holes put in the bracket. Although I have never had it in the car to see if those sets of holes in the bracket are good positioning for the pedal, but the folks at Hawks verbally told me it provides some of the best ergonomics.
Yes, C6 Corvette pedal (10379038) is a disaster. That's what Holley recommends with their EFI ECU's so I bought it, but that was a waste of money if trying to use the Hawks bracket.
Yes, C6 Corvette pedal (10379038) is a disaster. That's what Holley recommends with their EFI ECU's so I bought it, but that was a waste of money if trying to use the Hawks bracket.
For what it’s worth, I have a Lokar pedal for a TBSS/SSR since that is what SpearTech reprogrammed my E38 ECU to accommodate cruise control and the Vintage Air. I had to make a custom bracket for it, so I could basically put it anywhere I wanted. The only problem I had was that the Lokar pedal was not communicating with the ECU, so I had to buy a TBSS pedal and sent it to Lokar to have it cloned. SpearTech told me that they could not get the Lokar pedal to work with their harnesses and that was my solution. I do like the responsiveness of the Lokar pedal, it does not have the lag that you get from the OEM pedals. I have found through my research that every pedal seems to have a different signal pattern. The Corvette, GTO, Cadillac, and SSR are all different in how they communicate with the ECU.
I was looking at the wire harness in the engine bay of my Mercedes Sprinter and I noticed it has a lot of what appears to be a black shrink wrap but it fits very loosely to the harness and is very flexible. Anybody know what is that stuff?
I was looking at the wire harness in the engine bay of my Mercedes Sprinter and I noticed it has a lot of what appears to be a black shrink wrap but it fits very loosely to the harness and is very flexible. Anybody know what is that stuff?
I think maybe it is Raychem Versafit? Oversized so it remains loose on the harness.
I think maybe it is Raychem Versafit? Oversized so it remains loose on the harness.
Speaking of loomage, what the preferred choice with all of the options available? (I think a question that keeps us on topic yes?)
Presently I have the OEM split corrugated plastic stuff with the various T-fittings and size adapters.
While it does a reasonable job and certainly fits the date of the car, period correctness isn't my main metric. I've always liked the look of the braided sleeve and a split option makes it very easy to work.
What's out there?
That's what I'm trying to figure out too. I'm not perfect, I need some split loom so I can change things later. That really limits options
I'm leaning towards going back to corrugated high temp tubing but tidying up ends and joints with shrink tube.
I notice my Mercedes Sprinter does a tape wrap on the larger bundles and then a shrink tube on the smaller split outs. Exchange tape for corrugated tubing and that's kind of what mine might look like. I don't know, I just have to try something and my ideas will evolve.
I'm going to use a high temp sleeve around exhaust components.
Something like this? Although I can't say what it's made of and if it would meet any flame spread requirements for automotive use. But it's kinda what I'm looking for.
As for high temperature sleeving, I'd like a short length of that too. Basically for the wiring that makes it's way to the starter. Presently I have three fusible links down there along with the solenoid trigger wire. My intention is to bin the links once I've dialed in a power distribution block but in the meantime, I'd like to protect that part of the harness. My oil temperature sensor wire also passes by the headers and some protection there would be nice as well.
I'd be interested to know what you come up with if and when you do. (If you haven't already).
I have a lot of that style braided loom on my engine harness now and decided I'm not going to use it going forward. It gives zero protection from heat and chemicals. And I also found that a lot of it burns like paper when putting a match to it. Hey, sometimes you just gotta light stuff up and see what happens!
My goal is to do a better job this time with lowering temperature seen by the wire. My memory is fuzzy, but I think rule of thumb is wire life is cut in half for every 10°C rise above 100°Ç continuous operation. It would be neat to have a fully jacketed harness but I'm just not that good yet, I need a split loom for "change of mind" scenarios.
TechFlex has a lot of split loom products you can browse, https://www.techflex.com/
For near headers, I was thinking silcone jacketed fiberglass sleeving but honestly haven't looked into that subject matter yet.
i have used this heatshield products hot rod sleeve with good results to protect wires by the starter, etc... it comes in several different sizes and stretches well to fit around wire bundles, hoses, etc... i have not had any wire issues with headers, etc with close wiring since using this... i still use the normal split loom as a base protection overall (i use painless wiring version) and then put this over some critical heat areas like starter, O2 sensor wiring, etc
i have used this heatshield products hot rod sleeve with good results to protect wires by the starter, etc... it comes in several different sizes and stretches well to fit around wire bundles, hoses, etc... i have not had any wire issues with headers, etc with close wiring since using this... i still use the normal split loom as a base protection overall (i use painless wiring version) and then put this over some critical heat areas like starter, O2 sensor wiring, etc
That's pretty slick. Much better looking than the industrial grade stuff I have access to as well.
Might be just the ticket for the fuel lines as they pass by the headers on the forward frame rail. Maybe the brake lines too.
A lot is an understatement! One of those choices ought to be suitable though.
The area by the C100 connector is particularly busy in my car. I've a relay centre on the firewall and my accessory harness (mainly for all of my aftermarket analog gauges) breaks out there as well. It remains to be seen how flexible this loom would be. What I can say is that the bending radius of the corrugated loom isn't very much as it tends to fold and open up. That's the bit that bugs me the most.
That's pretty slick. Much better looking than the industrial grade stuff I have access to as well.
Might be just the ticket for the fuel lines as they pass by the headers on the forward frame rail. Maybe the brake lines too.
yes i have used it in that application as well, also over the clutch master to slave line, etc
01-02-2022, 07:34 PM
