84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

1. I used the same OE clamps used for the fuel/brake lines. I cut the line by the MC, hand bent/tweaked it a bit, then used an LS style for the last foot or so. They're welded together and holding since 2015. I put a heat shield sleeve over the weld and back to just past the firewall.

2.I used my original lines and the same clamp used on the fuel/brake lines attached at the front on of the oil pan. Tweaked them a bit to so they don't touch the eng/trans. 4L65e doesn't use threaded fittings. So again i cut the ends and welded they later style w/ the little C-clip. At the other end i re-routed them for the B&M cooler.

Keep up the good work. Be done before you know it.

vorteciroc

Only in regard to Engine Mounts for our Cars...
I do not like Poly/ Poly-Graph. Engine Mounts.
I see them as a "Half-Measure"...

Only "Full-Measures" here.
OEM Type Engine Mounts or Solid Mounts.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks guys.

@84 1LE I'll check and see if there's a good mount point to use toward the front of the oil pan to secure the transmission lines. Thanks for the heads up on it.

@vorteciroc I'm debating on whether to run the transmission cooler in series with the radiator, or just the transmission cooler alone. Curious of your professional opinion on this (who can resist? You're a heck of a resource when it comes to electronics and transmissions!). Some items which are pushing towards not running it in series:

• I'm in the Houston, TX area so it rarely ever gets below freezing and the car won't be driven on those days anyway.
• I bought a
  Tru Cool LPD4921 Tru Cool Max
  Tru Cool LPD4921 Tru Cool Max
  which has a thermal bypass which opens at 180F and is fully open at 205F. This should allow the transmission fluid to warm sufficiently on cooler days. This was based on a recommendation https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/cooling/579525-transmission-cooler.html#post4607200. Cooler has BTU rating of 34,000 and is 6x23x3/4 in size.
• Some reading online indicates that the sweet spot for cooling the transmission is ~ 175F. Some people claim that running transmission and cooler in series may result in higher fluid temps than the cooler alone, so long as the cooler is large enough.
  

vorteciroc

Well... There are a bunch of variables.

Most of what I am saying here is based on the Fluid characteristics of Dexron-III and somewhat on Dexron-VI.
The most important thing here is configuring the ATF Cooling System to achieve a 165*F to 185*F Temperature range.

Below 165*F the Fluid is not performing at its best (but does not do any harm).
Above 185*F the Fluid Life becomes shortened.

I prefer a Separate (No Radiator used) Cooler with an Electric Cooling Fan and a Bypass style Thermostat.
However the Environment, the Vehicle, The Torque-Converter, the Line-Pressure are all Variables that will dictate the Temperature range achieved.

Use of the Radiator may be necessary depending these Variables.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Couldn't have expected a better answer from an engineer. Gotta consider all the variables and in the end, the answer is "it depends." Thanks!

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

There's a mounting boss on each side of the pan. You can see the other one here and most of the clamp opposite.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Haven't posted updates in a while despite some progress being made. Time to get caught up.

In October of last year I bought and installed a new shifter cable from ShiftWorks. Install was very easy and it seems like a well made part.





Next up, I started reviewing the fan setup for my champion radiator. I had bought this unit many years back and opted for the optional fan shroud and fans to go with it, thinking it would be a quick bolt-in affair and reasonable upgrade. A decade ago when I bought this setup, I just attached everything using the provided zip-tie things that suck the fans up to the radiator and sandwich the shroud in the middle. I had also changed out the wire ends with some trailer wire fittings to make connect and disconnect easier (these were parts I bought from an auto parts store I believe). Here's where we started when I pulled it off the shelf to be reviewed:




I decided that the trailer wire connections and zip tie attachment method were probably not good longterm solutions, so I went about replacing the trailer wire connections with Metripack connectors and drilling holes to use short button-head bolts with washers and nuts to attach the shroud.




I finished out the month, by doing some reading on people's thoughts on the fans themselves because they seemed quite inexpensive when I looked them up on Champion's website compared to other fans from places like Summit. Found a few folks say that they were not effective at cooling their motors and seemed like a downgrade from factory fans they had before, so I placed an order for a set of Spal fans that were supposed to be the same dimension but higher CFM





These came in and I quickly discovered that Spal's 12" fans were bigger than the ones I had... in thickness and diameter. Oh boy. Time to get cutting! What the below picture does not show are a few bits of learning:
- Marking the inside diameter of a fan with blades attached is a little tricky. Easiest way I found was to use a stubby pencil that I could work up inside the fan from the under side to mark.
- "Tin snips" will kindof work, but take ages and leave jagged edges that are near impossible to completely sand smooth. At this point and until 2023, I wasn't sure how I was going to have the patience and ability to do a better job. Next post will show the work in 2023.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Fast forward to April 2023, through the winter and rainy season, and it turns out that the best way to cut that shroud was with a simple jigsaw and the right blade. Like butter. Make sure and wear your eye protection... This makes a lot of tiny flecks of metal.




Now add the fans and replace their Spal-only connectors with some Metripack 630 and you start to have a very nice looking setup! Super tight fit with those fans, but it fits.



If you haven't noticed already, the holes I drilled for the fan shroud to mount to the radiator do NOT line up right. The shroud is too tall vs. the radiator. Did the best I could and figured out a way to get it mounted. Don't really like it much, but also don't feel like investing more in cooling stuff before getting the car moving again. Here's a close-up of what it took to get to the bolts... cut some notches out of the radiator mounting locations so I could get a wrench in there to hold the nut still while tightening down a button head bolt from above. I know this is an inexpensive setup, but I really did expect the shroud to at least line up with the radiator. I won't even show you the bottom, as it doesn't line up well enough to even use the bolts. I ended up using some galvanized steel wire to tie the shroud to the holes to the radiator




Next was to get the radiator mounted in the car. I soon found out that the slight rocking of the radiator when I was working on it with the fans was due to the radiator core being twisted. Ugh. Thankfully after some Google searching... lo and behold Champion Radiators themselves have a help article about how to straighten a twisted radiator core. I couldn't find any other radiator site talking about this, so I'm unsure if this is a common thing or just something that Champion sees often enough to make a page about it. The good news is it took all of 5 minutes to fix. I don't have any fluid in the radiator yet, so I'm hopeful it will work at this point. Time will tell. Given all the fun I've had with fans and shrouds and now the radiator, if I had to do this again I think I might just opt for a stock thirdgen radiator and some way to mount my nice new fans.

Before putting the radiator in, I found a way to mount a big Tru-Cool transmission cooler with external thermostat. Used two pieces of aluminum bar from Lowes with some strategic holes in the car and bars. Fits but is a tight fit. This thing is probably way overkill. Yes it's almost as wide as the radiator. This method of mounting means I've got small air gaps between the radiator, the AC condenser, and the transmission cooler and no press-fit zip tie things to deal with.





Here's the radiator and everything finally mounted in the car. The radiator top shroud is something my Dad and I made a decade ago and it's still holding up, complete with some small self-tapping metal screws holding it to the fan shroud. If there weren't other things to do maybe I'd swap those screws out for rivnuts or something. Works for now.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Last story and picture and I'm all caught up. This month (June) it was time to mate up the transmission cooler lines to the radiator. Before doing that, I wanted to make sure the headers fit without making contact or being too close to the cooler lines. In the end, on my 2nd set of transmission cooler lines (3 if you count one of the lines), I have everything in place with only 1 slight crease that I'm hopeful will not be impactful to coolant flow. Went from nice stainless lines, to trying to fab my own using steel lines from NAPA, to another steel premade set that I had to hand-tweak and STILL don't think they're as form fitting as they ought to be and away from the headers. But I think they're probably good enough and I might wrap them in some kind of radiator heat barrier sheath.

- Transmission cooler lines installed on transmission using threaded ends, only 1 spot has a slight visible crease that hopefully won't impact flow much
- Hooker 1 7/8 Jet-het coated longtubes installed and only scratched to hell in a few spots
- Used the ARP headers studs and really like them
- Waiting to do the last transmission cooler line end until we get the transmission cooler thermostat positioned and another small hard line made to go from transmission to the thermostat

Here's the finished current shot:



Between the transmission cooler lines and the motor mount bolts, I'm not sure which is the worst thing to try and get done on this car and don't understand at all how people install headers, transmission cooler lines, or motor mounts with all of the accessories in the car. I'm not super mechanically inclined and not very muscular either, so I'm sure that contributes a lot to the difficulty.

Some lessons learned through this process:

• When installing the Hooker longitudes, they tell you very specifically to do the passenger side first, followed by the driver side.
  • This will work, but you need to be prepared to really jack the motor up from the bottom and lean the motor over to the drivers side (with a big pry bar) to install the passenger side, preferably with somebody up top to help while somebody pushes the header up from the bottom. The motor was jacked up enough that it spooked my friend that it was unsafe. I'd been doing it for so long by that point when he showed up that I'd become numb to the idea of it being a problem.
  • If you need to remove the headers, say because you screwed up your pretty stainless transmission cooler lines, you MUST remove the drivers first, followed by the passenger. Removal is the reverse of installation applies in this case BIG TIME.
• Motor mount bolts are the devil. It took less time than last time, and the same method applies. Loosen the bolts holding the mounts to the motor as far as you can and lower the motor down trying to position the mounts to where the bolts will go through. Be patient and use the crowbar from the top, side, and bottom. In the end, both times I ended up having someone hit the last bolt with a hammer from the front while I picked up on the motor with a large pry bar from the bottom drivers side of the car. This is with using rubber mounts.
• Transmission cooler lines are best done when the headers are not installed, it will give you more leverage but be careful not to crease lines
• The starter will only be able to be installed if the passenger header is loose, which likely means the motor mount bolt is backed out and the motor lifted up on that side. Here's hoping my starter lasts the life of the car. I'm using the factory K-member so space is tight. I've ordered the Hooker Blackheart Engine Starter Heat Shield to try and help that starter last as long as possible because I'm not looking forward to a starter replacement at all.
• The hooker instructions make special note of your brake lines possibly being too close, advocating for you to either relocate them or somehow protect them. I forgot to read that part until after the above picture was taken. My new stainless brake lines are very tight fitting with the k-member with no room to bend for more clearance and still probably closer than I'd like. In retrospect, it would be better to figure out how to re-route your brake lines before the headers are in the car, or really even the motor. But to do so you'd really need to have a good understanding about where the headers will be so you can avoid them. Maybe some other people have good alternate routing that can be followed, probably by making your own lines with a QUALITY flare tool... I've bought some
  Heatshield Products Lava Tube Sleeve Shield
  Heatshield Products Lava Tube Sleeve Shield
  to wrap the brake lines where they're close, so hopefully that will be enough from causing any issues with braking.

vorteciroc

WOW and WOW!!!


Looking GREAT!


The Radiator and everything together looks excellent!


I love the Spal Fans (A personal favorite Brand of Mine).
What do they Draw... Both Start-Up and Constant Numbers please.

I am also happy and impressed to see some Metri-Pack 630 Pull-To-Seat (at least the Mating Connector is PULL Style) Connectors being used.
Just so you know, there is a more traditional "Push-To-Seat" Version of the the 2-Way Metri-Pack 630 Connectors.

They look identical to the Power Connector on a Holley HP, Dominator, or Terminator PCM.
It seems most people don't know they exist... I use them all the Time!


I hope the Stainless-Steel Transmission Lines are 3/8" and not 5/16".

I'd love to put together a 4th-Gen Design Cooling-Fan System Circuit for you.
It converts the Dual Fans into a Low-Speed/ High-Speed (Both Fans used for both Speeds).
And it has multiple benefits over an ON/ OFF Circuit.

Fan Start-Up is the most stressful part of the Fan operation.
Using a traditional type of Circuit that switches the Fans ON and OFF is bad for both your Fans and the Alternator.

It is far more ideal for the Fans to go into Low-Speed Mode (instead of turning off) and having the Thermostat Close...
Should the Coolant Temperature become too Cold.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks @vorteciroc . Always appreciate your enthusiasm, encouragement, and feedback

The fans are the Spal Electric Fans IX-30102029 from Summit Racing. I'm unsure what they will draw, but the specs online I can find claim 14.50 amps for a max CFM of 1451.

I got factory replacement size, which is 5/16". At this point they're mild steel from inline tube. You going to give me more reason to pull the headers back off and jack the motor up? I am not a huge fan of the fitment of the transmission cooler lines with the LS1/4L60E and headers. With the tight fitment and frustratingly tight area for the starter and a couple brake lines on the drivers side, I've contemplated going back to manifolds. I've also thought about just hand bending lines out of softer metal like aluminum or ni-cop. I bought one of those fancy flare tools after screwing up enough flares with the old tool and haven't had a chance to use it yet.

I appreciate the offer. I've got the Racetronix dual series/parallel fan harness HD sitting in a box, along with a couple fan diagrams I put together ( see really early in this thread I think ) for just what you're describing. Want to check the circuit out on the first page of this thread and let me know if the upgraded version in post #18 looks right? I haven't traced out Racetronix's harness yet to confirm what they're doing, but don't intend on using it directly as I'd like to put the relays in a fuse/relay box.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Went out and looked at how close the brake line is to the headers and really don't like what I see. It's super close - so close I can't put a finger between the line and the header closest to it.

Talked a friend mine in the area and he had a similar issue on a small block chevy motor in his Camaro and ended up rerouting the brake lines to avoid headers completely. I'm going to go look at his setup tomorrow to evaluate if it's what I want to do or not and probably look online a bit.

Questionable decision in retrospect - buying headers (in addition to the rest of the exhaust kit + Jet Hot coating after the fact). At this point I've got quite a bit of sunk cost in these shiny things that make brake lines, transmission cooler lines, and starter install/removal much more difficult than they ought to be... on a motor that likely won't see all that much advantage with them anyway.

vorteciroc

Just a Warning:

The 5/16" Cooler Lines have caused more issues with 4L60E and 4L80E Transmissions than you would believe.
Often Torque-Converter Issues/ Failures that also turn into Transmission Issues/ Failures.

3/8" or a -6AN Lines are a MUST!
(Yes numerically is it a small change, however it is actually a significant increase in terms of Hydrodynamic Flow).

Please DO NOT use those 5/16" Cooler lines!

vorteciroc

Yes, the Racetronix Harness accomplishes the same Goal/ essentially the same type of Circuit Configuration that I use...
They just do it with Loose Individual Fuses and Relays and some inferior Connectors.

I put everything in a very small SEALED UBEC (Fuse and Relay Panel) with higher Quality Connectors:

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Vortec, what years used the 3/8 lines? Or were referring to custom bending them?
Ive seen on 4th gens the routing is very similar to 3rd gens and i thought the lines looked bigger, but figured that was just my imagination.

vorteciroc

If you can...

Being that you wish to have all those individual Fuses and Relays put into a "Box"...

I would recommend selling the Racetronix Harnesses that you have, and I'll build you something at COST.
Professional Work (Sorry to say it, but I am on an entire other Level than Racetronix) for very little money compared to the $200/ Hour and Up that everyone in my field charges for labor.

Plus I give you the Parts at the COST that I purchase them as a Dealer.
Far less (Most of the time) money than the Retail Prices on these Parts.

You can ask @QwkTrip about how inexpensive my Parts Prices are.

Best of luck no matter how you proceed with the project!

vorteciroc

I don't specifically recall in regard to 3rd-Gens...

But I do remember that there was a MASSIVE MANDATE from GM Headquarters Home Office and GM Power-Train...
That ALL VEHICLES across all GM Product NEW Vehicle Divisions (Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Hummer, Saturn, Saab, and Geo) must have a minimum 3/8" ATF Cooler-Line System Implemented for all Power-Train Systems.
PERIOD.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks @vorteciroc I'll definitely keep you in mind as I get closer to some of the electrical work again. From your advice, I've also ordered the parts to change over the 5/16" lines I have now on the transmission to a set of 3/8" with -AN6 fittings. I'm contemplating rerouting them to come from the top near the passenger frame rail instead of going straight against the engine, as it would mean a little easier access to the starter in the event it needs to be changed.

I got out this morning (now) to review the brake and transmission cooler line situation and did a once over on all areas where header clearance may be a concern. In all honesty, I'm pretty frustrated.

1. Factory brake line routing needs to be changed to avoid being in too close contact with drivers side header (and passenger side header)
2. Along the drivers side frame rail, the header makes contact with the Holley shield that they sell specifically for blocking heat from the header.
3. Also in that same area, the drivers side header points in a direction where it is unclear if the factory transmission shifter bracket will make contact once the exhaust system is connected.
4. On the passenger side, the transmission oil cooler lines following factory routing (if factory is the same as what comes from inlinetube), the oil cooler lines will make contact with the headers. These must be massaged to avoid this, then likely there are clearance issues getting to the starter.
5. Also on the passenger side, one of the header primary tubes makes contact with the K-member

Over the years I have read and realized that any modification to these cars requires other modifications for clearance and fitment, particularly headers. It was my hope that the Holley/Hooker BlackHeart system would avoid a lot of this, given the engineering we all saw put into it during early development (and the fantastic engagement seen by one of their engineers, who is no longer with the company).

To address all items above, I'm going to be pulling the headers back off (at a minimum) so I can apply a BFH to address item #5 above, route new transmission cooler lines when they arrive, and try to get the bracket from Holley pushed back against the frame rail to give it a little more clearance. To properly reroute the brake lines, I may end up either pulling the motor and transmission back out or at a minimum lifting the motor up high enough that I can move the brake line that cross behind the k-member to in front of it. and properly rebend those lines (or I may have to buy softer steel ones that can be bent easier than the stainless I have on there now, or something more custom with multiple joined segments of bent brake line).

In the back of my mind is the reminder that the 4th gen manifolds, while not as pretty or producing as much power as the headers I have now, did not require new brake line routing, multiple back and forth sessions installing/uninstalling for fitment, and also allowed me to run catalytic converters. Anybody out there in the Houston area (or derivable distance) market for a set of Hooker LS swap longtubes that have been Jet-Hot coated with a good bit of scratches (these don't seem for sale anymore)? Also have the full hooker exhaust system still new in the box...

Time to get to work removing those headers, as at least that path forward is clear.

====

Update a couple hours later - headers, transmission cooler lines, and transmission crossmember are removed. Found my old 4L60E to -AN6 fittings and cleaned them up. Going to break for lunch. @vorteciroc do the fittings which go into the 4L60E case for transmission cooler lines need any kind of teflon tape or a crush washer? Or do they just go in clean with the proper torque applied? I'm thinking they go in clean.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

These are the 4L60E to -6AN fittings that I have. When I bought them I confirmed they were the appropriate NPS thread (not NPT). From online sources, it seems the most these come with is an O ring, but it seems to be only when the mating surface of the fitting is flat. Mine are slightly tapered. As such, I don't believe that I need any kind of O ring as these should seat into the hole in the transmission snugly.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Last update for the day - rerouted the drivers side brake line successfully. Passenger side isn't long enough for alternate routing, so I'll need to get another small length of tubing and a coupler (M10x1.0 thread).

vorteciroc

National Pipe Threads (Tapered or Straight) require a Sealing Agent of some type.

Tapered Threads should always have PTFE Paste for Transmission use.
NO PTFE TAPE for Transmission use, as it can actually make it's way through the Transmission via the ATF, and cause issues...
(Clogs, sticking or blocked Valves, Etc).

Permatex or Loc-Tite PTFE Paste is great here.

Straight Threads will need a O-Ring or Sealing-Washer to make a "SEAL" when the Fitting stops/ bottoms-out against the Object with Threads.

I have my own particular ways about Thread Lubricants, Thread Sealants, RTV, ETC...
And will admit to using it excessively (not meaning all in one place at a time, just very, very often).

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks @vorteciroc . Given the NPS threads I have and the tapered mating surface (see above picture), would a crush washer or an O-ring be more appropriate? Any preference for where to source such in low volume?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

ICT 551114

Summit and amazon have them. Larger hex to fit an o-ring

Don't over complicate the simple details

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Pocket. Good to see you around. It's surprisingly easy to overcomplicate things...

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Update on current progress over the last 4 months:

• Remade transmission cooler lines using AN stainless braided PTFE hose and added an ImprovedRacing 165 degree thermostat inline between radiator cooler and external cooler
• Remade front brake lines using NiCop and a fancy flare tool and moved them in front of the K-Member
• Removed the headers and made some nice dents in them for clearance between a primary tube on each header and the K-member (pics to follow). These headers were part of the full Hooker kit, so it was surprising to see them need this, and kinda funny to realize that if the motor wasn't moved forward 5/8" then the dents may not have been needed at all.
  
  Tools we used (big hammer, largest impact socket wrapped in duct tape on a long extension):
  
  
  
  What a pretty dent!
  
  
  
  Clearanced header next to factory K-member (this is the pocket for the front LCA). Same issue on both sides.
• Got the headers and motor mounts all back in. With a friend helping and nothing else in the engine bay, this can be done very easily. Not so much by myself. For the motor mounts, we determined the best way to get them both in (rubber, this may work for poly) is to get the passenger side in, then with the driver side use a crow bar on the motor mount and turn it toward the passenger side from the front. This will line up the bolt and you can tap it in with a hammer.

Next up - some suspension detective work
While measuring for a driveshaft (because the Holley motor mounts move the motor forward 5/8"), found that my rear wheels were not centered in the wheel wells (front to back). Nearly all the rear suspension parts I have are aftermarket, as at one point years ago I had everything apart and decided to put lowering springs in and the corresponding adjustable suspension parts to accommodate the drop. Parts: UMI adjustable torque arm, UMI LCARB and UMI rear adjustable LCA. Torque arm is within 1" of factory length, owing to some adjustment years ago for angle. LCA are factory length. At this point, I think the LCARB are the culprit (or it could very well be the installer...) and will be removing them soon to see how it affect things (seems some folks on ls1tech had similar issues to what I'm seeing, with UMI having some extra instructions for folks to get it dialed in). I'm thinking I may be able to double check my theory of these being an issue with a simple measurement of the factory hole for the LCA (on the car) to the factory hole on the axle. If it's longer than the LCA itself, then the LCARB are angled and causing the issue. At this point, I'll survive having some suboptimal rear suspension geometry if I can get a proper length driveshaft and running car. I'll come back to the rear suspension when other things are sorted.


Wheel is not centered in the wheel well


Thoughts on this and other issues encountered...
In retrospect, I should have just run all stock suspension parts when adding lowering springs to start. Then if there are issues I notice and want to address, purchase parts to address that specific issue and install only those. Confirm if parts address and move on. Many of my issues over the course of owning this car come back to trying to take care of things fully while working in an area, despite the parts I have still working and likely to be sufficient for my needs. I need to draw a better line between what is "good enough" and what really isn't. I suppose this is the very nature of having a project car, but for me I'm coming to believe it best if the amount of change is minimized with a specific goal in mind for the change.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Rear wheels are now centered in the wheel wells! It was hard to get a straight measurement from the body to the axle (original LCA bolt hole), but it seemed a bit long. Went ahead and removed the LCARB set and while doing so checked the arc motion of the LCA and found that while it lined up perfectly with the other hold on the LCARB, it was about 1/2" off from the original bolt hole for the LCA. Got everything put back together and on the wheel cribs. Measurements look good and so does the picture.


Centered in the wheel well

Measuring for a driveshaft
From previous measurement to now, the needed length was shortened by 1/2" from 45.5" to 45". I'm measuring from the seal of the transmission to the face of the pinion yoke/flange, according to PST Drive Shafts 101. For anyone else who reads this, I'm using the Hooker motor mounts which move the motor forward 5/8", have a factory 1987 9 bolt rear, and a LS1 era fourth gen Camaro/Firebird 4L60E. Always measure for your own driveshaft

Out of curiosity, went ahead and installed the original driveshaft and it shows the amount of shiny that moving the engine forward a bit should. Total length of the splines section of the slip yoke is ~3 3/8" and I have 1 7/8" showing with the original driveshaft installed. Before dropping money on a driveshaft, going to do some looking to see how much slack is enough / too much. I suspect I may be able to get away with what I have for a while. Internet wisdom says that I should only have 3/4" to 1" showing for safety. Going to buy a driveshaft.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Got some more done over the weekend to share, and a question

Installed a Factory Style Rubber Transmission Mount
While this is not normally a big deal to anyone, it was a bit of a challenge to find a mount that would work with the Hooker transmission crossmember. They indicate in the instructions to use an aftermarket polyurethane mount or stock/aftermarket rubber mount. I bought a factory 4thgen 4L60E mount and a factory thirdgen 700r4 mount and both had clearance issues with the transmission crossmember. Found a generic aftermarket mount for a 4L60E for cheap on Amazon that looked really close. On trial fitment, had to cut two tabs off to make sure the mount would clear some bolts on the transmission case. But this works and fits nicely.


Modified generic 700R4 transmission mount

Installed a new driveshaft
A couple days later, my new driveshaft from PST showed up in the mail. My son and I got out and installed it tonight. 3.5" aluminum shaft. Fits really well, I think.


PST 3.5" alluminum driveshaft

Questionable Driveshaft to Transmission Angle
While laying under the car admiring the pretty driveshaft, I noticed that the angle between the driveshaft and transmission seems odd. I would expect a car at rest to have a nice straight shot between the transmission and rear axle, not the angle that I'm showing below. This got me to thinking - did I install the Hooker 4L60E adapter on the transmission crossmember upside down? It's hard to see in this picture, but I have it such that the adapter is lower to the ground vs. the opposite would have been higher from the ground. The instructions from hooker aren't clear on this either, with the picture being quite small. I want to say the picture shows the adapter installed /higher from the ground/ meaning I installed it upside down. I've sent an email to Hooker tech support to see what they say. Gosh - if I installed this upside down, I wonder if that would have made enough difference to keep me from needing to dent the headers? Doh. I'm also betting that flipping the adapter over may allow a factory fourth gen 4L60E mount to work. Chime in if you know what I don't and/or what the angle should actually look like. I'll also share what I hear back from Hooker.


Current driveshaft to Transmission angle. Not straight, so questioning my install of the 4L60E adapter to transmission crossmember

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

May have answered my own question. Went and browsed the original thread from Toddoky on ls1tech when he let everyone know what was coming from Hooker, and in that thread is a couple CAD diagrams showing the adapter installed on post #28, shown below. I've got the adapter installed upside down.

fuchs

I think everyone has experienced the upside-down problem at some point. Also, you appear to be at least half a years ahead of me with everything I also need to do! So far I've test-fitted the new transmission mount, brake lines, etc. Of course nothing really lines up properly and requires mods.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

I did get confirmation from Holley that the bracket should curve upward. When I flipped the bracket right-side-up, it corrected the driveshaft angle. It also appeared that my cuts to the transmission mount may not have been needed and also by drilling the third (middle) hole on the bracket (something I did, does not come that way), a stock 4th gen 4L60E transmission mount should work fine.

The dents I made in the headers may not have been needed had the transmission mount bracket been properly installed, but it would have still been quite close. I'm not disappointed that I have the dents, as I now have plenty of clearance in those areas.

Brakes and fuel lines are a chore and getting to run as straight as you'd like, while being out of the way, takes skills (I don't have) and patience. I think mine will be functional, but likely any person who does this kindof thing well would scoff when they see them. I wish I knew more about the durability of the nylon fuel lines. I have them from tank to filter, but would love to just run them all the way to the engine (past the hot headers). They're stupid easy to setup and use once you have the fittings you need and a tool to crimp.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

It was a beautiful week to take some vacation and tool around on the car. Got a small number of things done and have decided that the best way to describe my pace of progress is "glacial." Not only is it slow, but it comes with the seasons and frequently recedes and then makes some progress again...

New Fuel Pump Wiring
For day 1 I decided to finish the in-cabin portion of new fuel pump wiring, using the great instructions documented by @QwkTrip in post #4 of the threadHow to wire a 4th gen F-body fuel tank into a 3rd gen F-body. Removed C100 from the firewall, ran a new 10awg wire from slot G4 to the ground (repurposed) and power wires going to the tank. Used a simple large butt connector to tie the 10 awg to the 2 14 awg wires. There's better ways to do it, I'm sure, but this seemed to work well and I was good with it. Tucked everything in and started putting the carpet back in and discovered that the wire was a bit more taught that I wanted it to be once tucked and carpet laid down. With enough movement, this would likely pull the wire out of the butt connector eventually. Decided to sleep on it and think again the next day what to do about it.

Woke up and immediately removed the wire. Made a new one and redid the connections, now with enough slack. Everything tucked and carpet laid down with room to spare.

Upgrading my Wiring Diagrams
Having switched to a used MacBook for my garage machine, my trusty TinyCad no longer worked for making simple wiring diagrams. They have a web version, but it's not yet 100% in terms of capabilities compared to the desktop version. Ended up switching to using draw.io and remade my big diagram I use to show all the tie-ins between LS swap and thirdgen.

Next on the path of playing with draw.io and trying to get refamiliar with what I'd documented in the past, I traced the Racetronix Cooling Fans harness that I have in a box and confirmed that my previous drawing was spot on, expect for having smaller sized fuses. Racetronix uses 40A fuses and I had 30A. So I then recreated my drawing in draw.io with the larger fuses, factory wiring colors, and images that better allowed me to understand logic of the relays.




Setting up the Astro Van Fuse Box
Having regained my understanding of the wiring needed for the fan relays, I started setting up the Astro van fuse box. I soon realized that I didn't have some key sizes of tangless female Metripack 280 connectors, but I had the tanged versions. No matter, just remove the tang! It works... but the connector will slide back and forth in the slot more than desired. Alright... dig around in the box of electrical stuff and I came back with a bunch of wires I pulled form the fuse box originally, with the right connectors already on them Made decent progress with these for a bit, then went to tie in a 10 awg wire from the buss side of the box to the relay side. Found that this isn't as simple as it seems, as when the box is closed there's not room to rum the wire over the buss bar. So to use the box, I'll need to run the 10 awg wire out the front of the fuse box, do a 180, then back into the other side of the fuse box where the relays are. Annoying.

Spent the next few minutes trying out all the other fuse boxes I have just to make sure they're not as good an option as the Astro van piece. Confirmed.

Decided that I had moved far enough down the path of doing a hack job with my multi-colored, multi-gauge wires in the Astro van box that I should just order the right wires and connectors and try again. Put it all away for the night determined to do something more productive tomorrow.

3.1EyeCandy

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Knock Sensors Rust Prevention
I had previously set the LS6 intake on the motor and set the fuel injectors in it just to block the ports off leading into the motor. In the time since, I've thought about how people have reported in the past that the front knock sensor often rusts out due to water seeping between the intake and the valley cover, then down into the front hole where the knock sensor resides. My front knock sensor (removed) was quite rusty as well. So I remove the intake, pulled the new knock sensor harness loose a bit, then put a ring of black silicone RTV between the plastic/rubber of the knock sensor harness and the valley cover. Then pressed them back in. This was recommended a few times on ls1tech as a way to prevent the rusting. I think it turned out well and should prevent the issue in the future.



Valve Cover O-Ring Quick Fix
With the intake off, I noticed one small section of the valve cover O-ring seemed odd looking. So I pulled the passenger valve cover and found some of the O-ring had been twisted and not in the groove when tightened down. Put it back, then tightened the valve cover. Glad it didn't get ripped.

ICT Billet Steam Tube Parts
Put the block-off blocks on the rear and the braided cross line on the front. Seems like nice stuff. I think I'd be just as happy with a plain metal tube though.

Intake, Fuel Rail, and Injectors
Put the intake back on, put the injectors in the holes, then set the fuel rail on and tightened things down. Then looked in the box the injectors were in (I had them cleaned and flow-matched by one of the thirdgen vendors) and thought "what are these clips for?" Read online. Clips are for the injectors to be evenly spaced from the fuel rail. Duh. Removed the fuel rail and injectors, clipped them properly to the rail, then put the rail+injectors back onto the intake and hand tightened. Realized I don't own a torque wrench that does inch pounds to torque the intake and fuel rails properly, so ordered one.

Front Accessories
Dug out the Camaro accessories I've had in boxes. Found the bolts. Mounted up the alternator. Then started work on the water pump and got it all mounted up. Decided to work on the power steering pump next and found that the hose I'd used before had deteriorated and needed to be replaced. Drove to 3 different places before finding one that would build a fresh hose based on the existing one. Awesome.

A friend (originally met through thirdgen) I haven't seen in a while called and we got lunch together. Day is going great!

Went home and got back to work. Mounted up the power steering pump and found that the slight kink in my original hose's fitting was there for a good reason - too allow it to tuck behind the power steering pump and clear the lip of the water pump. Guess I needed to make a similar tweak? Here they are side by side before my attempt:



My attempt at bending the fitting failed. Ended up making the inside portion of the fitting just pivot and would likely cause a huge leak. Got online to figure out what to do about it and found that nobody else has a hose like I do on an LS swap... It's maybe a foot long. After lots of reading ended up ordering a Gotta Show kit after reading another forum member's experience and seeing his pictures. It's kindof strange that out of all the direct swap parts they make for thirdgens doing the LS swap nobody has just produced a simple direct swap high pressure power steering hose...

Onto the A/C. Found the boxes for the Holley high-mount bracket for a Sanden-style compressor along with the compressor. Got the bracket mounted to the block and eyed it for a bit. Sure seems close to the fender. Dug out my newer-style overflow tank and sure enough, they contact. Years ago I bought 88+ style tanks as I relocated the windshield washer pump to the newer style tank to get rid of the low hanging pump from 87 and prior that was at the firewall. Here's a pic of the non-fitment:






After questioning my sanity again, I went and read through the Hooker technical notes from the engineer that designed the exhaust setup and it specifically mentions this bracket working, along with their R4 bracket. Perhaps it was just wishful thinking. Did a lot more searching thirdgen and came to the conclusion that the easiest potential path to addressing is just a smaller overflow tank. First try will be a reproduction 82-87 style, which is smaller. There were some pics with the Kwik Sanden-style compressor bracket and it's close, but fits. Couldn't find any with the Hooker bracket. So I ordered the tank off eBay. We'll see if it will work.

End of the week
Not a lot of progress, but progress nonetheless. Ended with several open items - bracket to overflow tank fitment, lack of power steering hoses, what exactly to do about fuses/relays to look clean and be water tight/resistant. Ordered yet more stuff. Hopefully the next round of boxes start letting the pieces come together again Here's where she stands now:

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

Older (Smaller) Overflow Tank
Borrowed an older overflow tank to check fitment. It does NOT provide enough clearance with the Holley 20-142 AC bracket for Sanden compressors.

• The 82-87 style overflow tank needs ~1/4" to mount and still make contact
• The 88+ style overflow tank needs ~1/2" to mount and still make contact

82-87 overflow tank and Holley LS Swap Sanden AC bracket

At this point, I'm exploring options for how to move forward. Here are the ones I'm aware of:

• Different manufacturer A/C bracket for the Sanden compressor and F-body accessories that is closer to the motor - this is most preferred, but it needs to fit under a factory hood
• Different non-factory overflow tank that still looks factory-ish and will hold enough for Texas summer heat coolant expansion - I like the look of the factory tanks on each side providing "balance" visually. This is probably the cheapest and easiest option.
• Holley R4 A/C bracket. The Sanden compressor is a lot better than our original R4 units, but the R4 is also know to work and fit. It may also simplify wiring and figuring out how to get the AC going again.
• Different accessory positioning... this gets real expensive real fast and also carries risks of non-fitment with K-member and overflow tank.

Chime in, particularly if you have Holley's motor mounts (and a factory k-member) and have AC with a factory overflow tank.

At this point, I'm going to find my old bracket and just skip AC for now until I get the car running. I'm most interested in exploring:

• ICT Billet Low Mount bracket with a mini Sanden compressor (https://www.ictbillet.com/ls-camaro-...nden-7176.html). Given that the Hooker mounts move everything forward 5/8" and the mini Sanden hookups are on the side, I'm curious how this compares to the 4th gen LS1 A/C re: physical dimensions.
• Dirty Dingo Sanden compressor bracket (https://www.dirtydingo.com/shop/prod...oducts_id=1484) is 1 7/8" more compact and should provide the needed clearance to the overflow tank if the measurements on their site are accurate.

soloc4

I used the Dirty Dingo brackets with a Sanden S7 compressor. I did it because the GTO compressor was a variable pressure unit and the Vintage Air system required a constant pressure unit.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

You absolutely met the definition of what I asked for @soloc4 ! I left out the factory k-member bit... Your car is amazing! Such excellent fabrication work.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Will that S7 mount directly to the block like the stock unit or require separate mounting bits? Do those bits come with it, if so?

soloc4

I cannot answer difinitively about the stock K-member since I have never used one during my build, but the Dirty Dingo kit mounts the compressor up and in about an inch in both directions. You can get a prospective looking at how much space there is to my K-member in the picture.

The Dirty Dindo kit came with the compressor and the mounting brackets which can be used on the three accessory lenghts, Corvette, Camaro, and Truck.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Thank you. Really like that dirty dingo set up.

3.1EyeCandy

iTrader: (3)

its definitely appealing to try given the very small nature of the Sanden S7 mini compressor. How well does it cool @soloc4 ?