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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Hey Guys, Ive read the stickes and some say you need the LS1 intake as well as relocating the Alternator... but then I read people have gotten them under the stock camaro hoods.
My 5.3 is running good but I have a 4" cowl hood and needless to say its tall and alittle annoying on the street. I originally wanted to find a power buige hood but they are impossible to find or $$. So I found a local TA hood for $100 and another for $125 a distance out. I'm not sure of any hood line differences between the camaro and firebird that the camaro can fit them. I'm running solid universal steel SBC motor mounts that I made fit which actually lowered the motor I think compared to stock.
I took some tape and marked my engine and I can only see the intake and alternator sticking up 1-1.5" from the fender line. This doesnt seem like alot and I dont think the stock TA hoods are perfectly flat but maybe clearancing underneith the hood supports?
LS1 intake performs worse than my stock truck intake so Id rather not, thought about the procomp style intake due to costs or even the BBK etc. Perfect world my truck intake would fit lol.
If not I have to factor in the additional costs.
hood = $100-125
Alt/ps relocation bracket = $130-250
New belt = $20-40
Intake = $100-$500
Heres some pics of the tape lines. Can anyone measure under the stock TA or bulge hoods?
Yea its very annoying... like 1/2-1" is killin me!
BTW your sig shows a 50mm BOV, what is the style and how loud is it? My 38mm type H is horrendous coasting with the supercharger on the highway (sounds like a massive compressor leak/jet engine. I'm looking to change it up and throw a 44-50mm wyntom on it and see if it helps.
38mmbov sounds too small for any v8 imo lol. My 50bov isnt annoying at all and doesnt shreek like a hks sequential. Dont know the name of what style it is but its your standard open element I guess you can say. It expells a quick burst of air as if you unplug an air line..thats it.No prolonged hiss etc..I almost forget it exists because its not absurd.
Back to your topic, I think the truck intake may partially rub the hood which is not really an issue.The alt though..especially that position of that tab sticking up is at the point where the t/a fender/hood lines curve down. When i had my 383/hsr intake I had to cut a section of underhood bracing because the throttle body would hit this spot.I cut a section of the hood liner for it also and then i was able to fully close the hood. Could never let the hood drop close.Just a slight puch down for it to latch or it would rub.
You can shave the truck intake ..or i ask..is that a ls1 alternator or the truck/h.o alt? maybe find something smaller?
The 38 is what was provided in the supercharger kit I bought from the manufacture. Our setups are different tho... mine being a centri supercharger if I'm cruising at 70mph at 2k rpms and I let off the gas my supercharger is still spinning at 2k but no throttle vacuum is like 25' and pulls the BOV open and makes a constant HISSSSSSSSS! Loud as well. Thats the nature of a supercharger being belt driven. Your turbo slows down once you let off the gas and exhaust gases decrease drastically... so you dont have all that excess air needing to be vented. Superchargers spin at engine RPM and produce the same amount of air with or without load which is where my issue is. I figure a larger opening will help decrease air speed when escaping and help with the "loudness of the HISSS". But I'd rather not spend the $80 if I dont need to.
Your car sounded good tho! I would love to swap a 6.0 in mine and remove the 5.3, but the 5.3 is still stupid fast for a street car lol.
The intake and alt are def high, getting cheap $120 alt relocation brackets is possible but the intake is still the issue. I dont want to get rid of the truck intake as they perform so well and make gobs of tq below 3k which is where i spend most of my time. Honestly I would love a power bulge, my car had one and then I hit a deer and the antlers put dents all across the top and I junked the hood years ago... wish I had kept it!!!
The alt is a larger case style, 130amp minimum and I need it to power my Meth injection and my mark IV fans that pull like 70amps. The original alt is not too much smaller and puts out like 100amps I believe. I think the alt would clear with the power bulge hood but idk about the intake being that its centered in the hood and high in the front. I'm never going to use hood insulation lol, just want the hood alittle lower for street driving since the 4.5" cowl is a bit tall ya know lol.
I know being supercharged your bov will operate alot differently than mine but i still think the 38mm is just too small.
Shame you require the larger case alt..I use it also but aside from relocating it or getting a smaller case alt that is rewound to output higher amps ..you might be sol. The intake by design is fugly though so any excuse to shave it down and make it pleasing to the eye..Id take it lol.Other options are either find a lower cowl and make it work.or maybe the motor mounts are too high?
I know being supercharged your bov will operate alot differently than mine but i still think the 38mm is just too small.
Shame you require the larger case alt..I use it also but aside from relocating it or getting a smaller case alt that is rewound to output higher amps ..you might be sol. The intake by design is fugly though so any excuse to shave it down and make it pleasing to the eye..Id take it lol.Other options are either find a lower cowl and make it work.or maybe the motor mounts are too high?
It is stupid loud. I might try a 44mm.
The problem with small case is even if wound to higher amps they suffer more idle and low Rpms. The only way is to have a larger case and physically larger internals. I could try a smaller alt but the cost of the alt is almost as much as the relocation brackets lol. All the brackets require are a different length belt.
I agree the intake is gross but that's why I make a cover plate wrapped in carbon fiber lol.
I thought I read a thread where they fit a stock 5.3 under the bulge hood with stock accessories and brackets. Something about the alt being in the right place for the bulge part of the cowl.
I agree tho with most of what u said. Doesn't look good without at least a relocation or intake mod. Only way to tell is to get a hood.
Motor mounts are SBC solids and I personally think they are lower than stock style 3rd gen mounts as the tabs are physically shorter like 1/4-1/2". And I had to Lower my trans to get the correct motor angle.
Hmm your in a pickle my friend. Its a killer setup i must say...as it stands i think you just need to ride the no hood look and be a badass. Is the cowl hood fibreglass? It can be altered with body work and chopped down and reinforced also to sit at a height you like. Its a bit of work but can be done...not a cheap fix unless you dont mind doing it yourself.
I would but I would get a ticket in a heart beat. Cops seem to love me.
Yes it's fiberglass but I won't chop it up. I'd rather cool up for a glass power bulge and make it fit lol. I contacted glasstek and they said check back in August. They already have the pin on version but their GM mold broke so they can't do the bottom half/underside.
I'm not in a rush persay, if I found a nice bulge in steel for a good price I would jump on it.
Yes, for sure. My 4"-4.5" cowl has a ton of room above the front of the motor and the cowl. I measured only 1"-1.25" above fender line int he pics shown. As long as the inside of the hood is 1.25" or higher you should clear.
On a side note, I drove 3hrs each way yesterday and picked up a bulge hood for $100 with 1 small dent!! whoop whoop! So excited to have a stock style hood back. I dont know if Im going to even try to run it this year yet. Prob will wait till the winter to test fit it and make any mods to the accessories to fit. Alternator is not a big deal but the intake is what worries me.
Decided to pull my cowl hood and test fit the power bulge with my current configuration. The stock 5.3, stock truck EFI intake, 130amp large case alternator (all my Supercharger IC piping) and Ive used a 1" spacer for the TB which also pushes the TB linakage up and forward 1". My motor mounts are standard SBC solids which I think are slightly lower than 3rd gen specific solid mounts but have no idea.
Bottom line is IT WILL CLEAR the stock hood! Only modification being removal of the large case alternator and running a stock small case alternator!!!! Whoop Whoop! Which sucks as I need to remove my new alternator and get a new smaller case with less amperage lol but I thought I needed to cut the hell out of the hood or change all the accessories around to clear everything. If you try to use a large case alt you will need to cut the underhood bracing right above the alt to get the 1" or so clearance needed (basically cut the cross bar) and it clears. But you wont be able to have an engine cover on the intake anymore
Finnally some definitive proof it will fit! This means it will prob fit a stock hood as well if you remove the engine cover as well since nothing really pokes into the power bulge cavity.
Now I need to fix all the dents (way more than I thought) and get to the body work and paint.
Decided to pull my cowl hood and test fit the power bulge with my current configuration. The stock 5.3, stock truck EFI intake, 130amp large case alternator (all my Supercharger IC piping) and Ive used a 1" spacer for the TB which also pushes the TB linakage up and forward 1". My motor mounts are standard SBC solids which I think are slightly lower than 3rd gen specific solid mounts but have no idea.
Bottom line is IT WILL CLEAR the stock hood! Only modification being removal of the large case alternator and running a stock small case alternator!!!! Whoop Whoop! Which sucks as I need to remove my new alternator and get a new smaller case with less amperage lol but I thought I needed to cut the hell out of the hood or change all the accessories around to clear everything. If you try to use a large case alt you will need to cut the underhood bracing right above the alt to get the 1" or so clearance needed (basically cut the cross bar) and it clears. But you wont be able to have an engine cover on the intake anymore
Finnally some definitive proof it will fit! This means it will prob fit a stock hood as well if you remove the engine cover as well since nothing really pokes into the power bulge cavity.
Now I need to fix all the dents (way more than I thought) and get to the body work and paint.
Your welcome!
So remind me, this is a 5.3 with 5.3 truck accessories?
Awesome this gives me hope for my future lsx swap with my powerbulge hood and truck intake. Can anyone confirm the solid mounts being shorter than the stock mounts?
I was one of the first, probably the first, to get the truck intake under a stock Camaro hood.
The 'bird hoods drop off quicker as you move forward of the front axle centerline.
It is possible to put Camaro fenders, hood, and nose on your bird.
I was one of the first, probably the first, to get the truck intake under a stock Camaro hood.
The 'bird hoods drop off quicker as you move forward of the front axle centerline.
It is possible to put Camaro fenders, hood, and nose on your bird.
Yes, their is no definitive answer on the firebirds. Its very tight due to the drop off of the fenders/hood. But it does clear with the bulge hood and the small case alternator and no engine cover.
EDIT: does the camaro fender/strut tower supports have a different angle than the Firebird? I always thought the fender supports were different between models.
Last edited by customblackbird; 07-26-2016 at 09:00 AM.
Does the 5.3 oil pan clear Ok if you are using an aftermarket k-member?
-- Joe
As already stated no it will hang wayy to low. But the actual sump clears the stock Kmember and aftermarkets better than the Fbody oil pan does. But the Fbody is much shallower and thus the sump is longer to make up for its lack of depth. The longer fbody sump is what causes interference with the stock Kmember but clears the aftermarket. Idealy the truck oil pan cut and made shallower will offer the most Kmember clearance but at the sacrifice of some of the capacity. Easiest route no fabrication route is aftermarket Kmember and Fbody oil pan. Cheapest is modify the stock truck pan.
As already stated no it will hang wayy to low. But the actual sump clears the stock Kmember and aftermarkets better than the Fbody oil pan does. But the Fbody is much shallower and thus the sump is longer to make up for its lack of depth. The longer fbody sump is what causes interference with the stock Kmember but clears the aftermarket. Idealy the truck oil pan cut and made shallower will offer the most Kmember clearance but at the sacrifice of some of the capacity. Easiest route no fabrication route is aftermarket Kmember and Fbody oil pan. Cheapest is modify the stock truck pan.
Yup, people do it all the time. Hard part is finding someone to weld a used oil pan. the oil seeps through the weld and ruins the weld suppsidly but people have still done it. Fbody oil pan is 5.5" deep, cut the truck pan to that depth or at Kmember height. Slap a peice of billet aluminum sheet from ebay for like $10 and cut to profile of pan. Some people have welded, bolted and this guy even JB welded it https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...lsx-turbo.html
You'll be down to 4.5 qts capacity over 5.5-6qts but You could modify the truck pan for less than $50 and pickup tube. Or get the Fbody oil pan and pickup/windage tray for less than $300 an be done with it.
Yup, people do it all the time. Hard part is finding someone to weld a used oil pan. the oil seeps through the weld and ruins the weld suppsidly but people have still done it. Fbody oil pan is 5.5" deep, cut the truck pan to that depth or at Kmember height. Slap a peice of billet aluminum sheet from ebay for like $10 and cut to profile of pan. Some people have welded, bolted and this guy even JB welded it https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ltx-...lsx-turbo.html
You'll be down to 4.5 qts capacity over 5.5-6qts but You could modify the truck pan for less than $50 and pickup tube. Or get the Fbody oil pan and pickup/windage tray for less than $300 an be done with it.
Just google LS truck oil pan modification.
I weld aluminum all the time, so that isn't an issue. Was just curious. $300 for a pan is a bit crazy..
The structure hidden by the front fenders is the exact same for Camaro as for Firebird. Bird seems to be slightly taller fenders at the top center of the wheelwells, but I never actually measured both.
I modified my truck pan because I had a spare, still have it, and it worked fine with the Trans-Dapt 4536 mounts. That's how I got it under my Camaro hoods with a shaved truck intake. I just cut the sump. But if you want to go lower, you'll also want to section the entire pan maybe 3/4" ( 19 mm )
I've since fabricated my own custom pan of mild steel, did it for my '87 S-10 but about to try it in my '94 Camaro on my last 4.8L LSx, haven't measured it, but the front end of it is as thin as possible, touches the oil pickup tube, and was a lot of hours to build.
I weld aluminum all the time, so that isn't an issue. Was just curious. $300 for a pan is a bit crazy..
I'll do some research.
-- Joe
Well to be honest most pans are in the $300 + range anyways. WEll most of the aftermarket steel ones and that doesnt include oil pump pickups etc. And the LS pans are cast aluminum and much more rigid than steel pans.
GM performance parts has a swap pan kit, includes pan, gasket, pickup, windage tray and dipstick for like $180 total from summit. But the Pan is still too deep as its only like 1-1.5" shallower than the truck pan. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19212593
FWI a new GM pil pan gasket alone is $30-40
And a large GM performance parts supplyer sells some stuff for cheaper than summit. I paid $200 for a new Fbody oil pan that came with a new gasket already attached. the pickup, windage tray and dipstick total cost was $250 which had summit price match. You can cut the truck windage tray to work as well as the pickup with a modified pan but these parts are like $15 and require no time besides unbolting and bolting back on. Cost vs time for very little savings.
The structure hidden by the front fenders is the exact same for Camaro as for Firebird. Bird seems to be slightly taller fenders at the top center of the wheelwells, but I never actually measured both.
I modified my truck pan because I had a spare, still have it, and it worked fine with the Trans-Dapt 4536 mounts. That's how I got it under my Camaro hoods with a shaved truck intake. I just cut the sump. But if you want to go lower, you'll also want to section the entire pan maybe 3/4" ( 19 mm )
I've since fabricated my own custom pan of mild steel, did it for my '87 S-10 but about to try it in my '94 Camaro on my last 4.8L LS, haven't measured it, but the front end of it is as thin as possible, touches the oil pickup tube, and was a lot of hours to build.
Updates. Stock hood is on for good now. spent a week body working the hood and shot it with the car paint just to have the clear coat shoot **** all over the hood lol... ugh. I'm not doing anymore this summer so its done till i get the time/want to redo the hood again. Everything went on and went for a drive for the first time in weeks! Feels so nice to be able to see out of the windshield again... although it felt really weird for a while and to look at it.
Small case alt hasn't rubbed yet but charging is down a bit at idle... damn. I thought the 140amp would be at least the same as the 130amp large case at idle. With the fans on and stuff I'm lucky to get 12.5-13v at idle and it only goes to 13.5 where I was at like 14.7 with the 130 large case.
Well to be honest most pans are in the $300 + range anyways. WEll most of the aftermarket steel ones and that doesnt include oil pump pickups etc. And the LS pans are cast aluminum and much more rigid than steel pans.
For LS maybe. My 6 quart pan on my 412" sbc was like $80, and the two pans I bought for some other engines I'm building in the shop were like $40 each. I'd pay $100-150 for a good pan, but $300 is insane. It's just an oil pan.
I'll probably just cut the bottom off and re-weld it. I'm not even sure when I'm going to have time to go through this 5.3, but I think I'm gonna build it up so that if I ever blow up the 412 in my Formula I can swap this in, since my ECM is already configured to run it. Should be straight forward.
I can make an LSx blower bracket for my supercharger, the only thing that's gonna hurt is headers. I've got really nice stainless long tubes right now. I wonder if stock fbody manifolds can do 600hp.. hrmm.
Been done, pics in tgo somewhere. They used GM ground effects, don't remember which, but it worked.
I've seen the modified TA/Camaro front bumper but never a full on swap. If you find them shoot them up or PM me, Id be interested to see what it looked like. A camaro front bumper would really open up the airflow to my FMIC on my TA lol.
For LS maybe. My 6 quart pan on my 412" sbc was like $80, and the two pans I bought for some other engines I'm building in the shop were like $40 each. I'd pay $100-150 for a good pan, but $300 is insane. It's just an oil pan.
I'll probably just cut the bottom off and re-weld it. I'm not even sure when I'm going to have time to go through this 5.3, but I think I'm gonna build it up so that if I ever blow up the 412 in my Formula I can swap this in, since my ECM is already configured to run it. Should be straight forward.
I can make an LSx blower bracket for my supercharger, the only thing that's gonna hurt is headers. I've got really nice stainless long tubes right now. I wonder if stock fbody manifolds can do 600hp.. hrmm.
-- Joe
Maybe a stock style steel pan at those prices but not a good steel aftermarket pan. Heres an example of a milodan street/strip 6qt pan at $267 just for the pan... still need a pickup so tack on another $50-70. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-30908/overview/ still your stuck needing a oil pan gasket and dipstick and its a steel pan. The LS pan has alot more baffling inside, made from aluminum, comes with reusable aluminum/rubber gasket and has a low level sensor installed and nice windage tray. Just saying your spending about the same for an aftermarket steel pan for a standard SBC.
stock manifolds should support 600hp with a turbo lol... NA you pick up like 20hp going to headers on a stock mild modified LS motor. Get some cheap SS shorties off ebay and fab up connection pipes and call it a day.
I had replaced my large case truck 130amp alternator with a tuff stuff 140amp black powder coated alternator and had charging issues. At idle I was barely seeing 13v with not much on (Fan 2nd speed, meth pump, headlights etc) wiht the 2nd speed on the fan on I would see 12.5ish volts. Lets just say it wasn't going to cut it.
Contacted Summit about it and they said it shows up that the one I have fits the application but wasn't correct for the application. They told me they would swap me a more expensive powermaster 150amp small case (case is slightly different, looked like it was more for an Fbody) for mine free of charge. Thats a $160 tuff stuff alt for a $230 powermaster lol... I was like HELL YEA! They also said the powermaster has a higher voltage set point of 14.8v. The Power master although sold as 150amps rating is actually a 165amp alternator. I got a power card with the dyno specs of the alt (each one gets its own testing) so the one I got made 105amps at idle, 150amps cruising and 165 max. Pulley DIA between the 2 was slightly different, powermaster was a hair larger like 2.2" vs 2.3" (inner Belt DIA). I swapped it out and this time took care to sand the mounting bolt bosses so they had a good connection (ground) to the accessory brackets to help with case grounding. New powermaster charges much better at 14.3v at idle and haven't seen it dip below 14v on the gauge even at night , fans 2 speed on, headlights etc. So far loving the new alternator!
06-14-2016, 04:09 PM
